The Official Procella Audio Speakers Owners thread - Page 10 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #271 of 290 Old 03-15-2015, 10:44 PM
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I'm building a room essentially 18' x 28' x 7.75'. Details here:

What do you guys think about the suitability of the P18 sub is for this room? I am thinking about one or two of them (if two is needed?) behind the AT screen. How would this sub compare to using the HSU VTF-15H (multiples) which are rated down to 16 dB? What other high power subs should I consider?

Also how does the Procella LCRs sound/compare to the Triad Gold Monitors or LCRs?

Thanks!
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post #272 of 290 Old 03-15-2015, 11:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
I'm building a room essentially 18' x 28' x 7.75'. Details here:

What do you guys think about the suitability of the P18 sub is for this room? I am thinking about one or two of them (if two is needed?) behind the AT screen. How would this sub compare to using the HSU VTF-15H (multiples) which are rated down to 16 dB? What other high power subs should I consider?

Also how does the Procella LCRs sound/compare to the Triad Gold Monitors or LCRs?

Thanks!
I have a P15 in a 535 sq. ft room and it does excellent. Zero complaints about bass. A P18 is called for in a room with my volume for ideal outcome, but since I really only care about the MLP for sound quality the P 15 works. Most importantly A P18 didn't fit in my budget. . Have you considered 2 passive P 15's? They are equal to one P 18 in terms of output but will give more even bass response that one P 18. That would free up money to have better LCR and power it all (subs and speakers) with the procella amp.

I have the P 610 LCR, and cannot speak high enough about them. Have never heard the Triad but their reputation is very good.
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post #273 of 290 Old 03-16-2015, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
I'm building a room essentially 18' x 28' x 7.75'. Details here:

What do you guys think about the suitability of the P18 sub is for this room? I am thinking about one or two of them (if two is needed?) behind the AT screen. How would this sub compare to using the HSU VTF-15H (multiples) which are rated down to 16 dB? What other high power subs should I consider?

Also how does the Procella LCRs sound/compare to the Triad Gold Monitors or LCRs?

Thanks!
Hi, for your room size, the P18 would only be required if you wish to reach the very lowest of bass frequencies (-3dB @ 18Hz from 133dB@50Hz, so 130dB@18Hz!!), all the way down to below 10Hz! The P18 can play these low frequencies at SPL as required for much larger rooms than yours, so you will be over-specced from an SPL point of view. Based only on your room size, I would begin with 1 x P18-FP placed below or behind the screen, powered using our new rack-mount amp, the DA-06 (2 x 1200W) and plan to add a few P10-FP as balancing subs, distributed throughout the room, if required. But before we continue, we need to know what materials your room is made of: timber bats/sheet?, brick?, concrete?

We don't comment on other products. The Procella loudspeakers all use studio-quality, Italian-made compression drivers (HF), mounted on our proprietary wave guides. This gives them much greater SPL than dome-tweetered loudspeakers, with much lower distortion, greater clarity and much better dispersion characteristics. All our loudspeakers are designed to be timbre matched, allowing you to use P28(P860), P8(15), P6(10) and P5 in any combination (LCR, surrounds) as required for your room, whilst maintaining our Identical Voices(TM) principle throughout.

Hope this helps!
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post #274 of 290 Old 03-21-2015, 05:43 PM
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got my p8s in the baffle wall and the p6v in my columns, cant wait to see the p6iw for my atmos setup.
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post #275 of 290 Old 03-21-2015, 11:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks beautiful! You must be excited.
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post #276 of 290 Old 03-22-2015, 08:55 AM
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Looks beautiful! You must be excited.
very, cant wait. the room is almost completed, though the p6iw wont be here until early may
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post #277 of 290 Old 04-18-2015, 07:48 AM
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So, how low does the p15 go? I was told the p18 would be needed to dig really deep, but the p15 must at least be noticeable around 10hz, right? This is for a 2600 foot cubed room.

Plus, my other speakers are domes, so I probably can't quite hit reference level, anyway. I'm just worried that the extra headroom of the p18 would never be realized.
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post #278 of 290 Old 04-18-2015, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Tin_Can View Post
So, how low does the p15 go? I was told the p18 would be needed to dig really deep, but the p15 must at least be noticeable around 10hz, right? This is for a 2600 foot cubed room.

Plus, my other speakers are domes, so I probably can't quite hit reference level, anyway. I'm just worried that the extra headroom of the p18 would never be realized.
You can never have too much headroom. In all seriousness the P15 does awesome in my room, which is a big room. With the money you save by going with a P15 use it towards the ultimate Procella setup!


Dolby Atmos 11.4.6. Oh, how I wish I would happen to be in Amsterdam for a front row seat for this demo. All I can picture is the iconic Pioneer advertisement.
https://iconicphotos.files.wordpress...maninchair.jpg
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post #279 of 290 Old 04-18-2015, 02:22 PM
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Hey guys - I am very interested in the Procella speakers and as such spent a while going through this thread head to toe - great information in here. Below are some questions and thoughts on things I found as I went through the thread.

Does anyone have an updated list of MSRP for the Procella loudspeakers and subs? There were a few posts listing them throughout this thread, but the numbers changed in each and those were from a few years ago, so looking for updated info.

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Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post
Little update after living with the P610 for a couple months: What an amazing upgrade going from the P6 to the P610 has been in my opinion. The P610 is an extremely authoritative and robust speaker that brings a whole new weight and depth to the entire front soundstage. It is truly awesome to have those extra sources of bass across the front. Highly recommended!

The more time I spend with them with a variety of material the more impressed I become.
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Originally Posted by Peter M View Post
Couldn't agree more !

Due to a DSP failure I was briefly unable to bi-amp my 610's and was left with only P6's up front. It still sounded good but the P610 is in another league !!

Cheers,
Great to here and glad you loved the upgrade. In my case I am wondering if I would get anything from the P610 that I wouldn't get from the P6. My room is 17W X 30L x 7.75H. My front row is 12.5 ft. I do NOT have any requirement (or any interest really) to play at reference volume. In fact I would never do it - hurts my ears. With the fronts normally xo at 80 Hz, what would be the advantage, if any, of using a P610 instead of a P6 behind my AT screen?

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Originally Posted by KNKKNK View Post
...I am very interested in hearing others opinions for using a full range speaker in this scenerio...
[quote=TMcG;24148985]Quote:Originally Posted by KNKKNK 

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Originally Posted by lpnaz480 View Post
very, cant wait. the room is almost completed, though the p6iw wont be here until early may
Did you eventually get the P6iw? How do you like them?

For my setup I am thinking of using P6 for the front 3 channels, P5's for the rest of the 7.1 system and Wides, and two P15 subs, possibly 7 P6iw for Atmos ceiling speakers (two top front, two top middle, one VOG as I am planning ahead for DTS future needs, and two top rears), along with some Procella balancing subs or other such (shallower) subs. However I am a little concerned that the P5's are only rated down to 90 Hz. Since my subs xo will be 80, I wonder if this will leave a big of a "hole" near the xo by using these speakers instead of P6's which go to 70 Hz. Certainly if there's little to no difference in the Wides and surrounds in the P5 vs P6 I'd like to go with the P5 as they are half the cost and we are talking about 6 speakers so this difference adds up real quick!
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post #280 of 290 Old 04-18-2015, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerben Van Duyl View Post
Hi, for your room size, the P18 would only be required if you wish to reach the very lowest of bass frequencies (-3dB @ 18Hz from 133dB@50Hz, so 130dB@18Hz!!), all the way down to below 10Hz! The P18 can play these low frequencies at SPL as required for much larger rooms than yours, so you will be over-specced from an SPL point of view. Based only on your room size, I would begin with 1 x P18-FP placed below or behind the screen, powered using our new rack-mount amp, the DA-06 (2 x 1200W) and plan to add a few P10-FP as balancing subs, distributed throughout the room, if required. But before we continue, we need to know what materials your room is made of: timber bats/sheet?, brick?, concrete?
Sorry for the delay in responding - I missed your reply at the time, and only saw it after rereading this thread last night from top to bottom...

I think some mode simulations and desired smooth frequency response over two rows will wind up dictating at least two subwoofers on the front wall. In that case which sub would you recommend that I could use two of on the front wall (behind the screen wall, AT screen)? Seems like that would provide perhaps smoother FR in the room compared to say a P18?

Quote:
We don't comment on other products. The Procella loudspeakers all use studio-quality, Italian-made compression drivers (HF), mounted on our proprietary wave guides. This gives them much greater SPL than dome-tweetered loudspeakers, with much lower distortion, greater clarity and much better dispersion characteristics. All our loudspeakers are designed to be timbre matched, allowing you to use P28(P860), P8(15), P6(10) and P5 in any combination (LCR, surrounds) as required for your room, whilst maintaining our Identical Voices(TM) principle throughout.

Hope this helps!
Thanks. In my case, I do not need reference levels, so the advantage of being able to play super clean at very loud volumes is a bit lost on me. I usually listen at say -20 dB to -15 dB on the MV. What I do want, however, is super clean and clear sound that is very well balanced. I love the fact that the Procella line shares the same voice and that the P6iw *appears* to be a good choice for 3D audio ceiling speakers, which is more than I can say compared to how other manufacturers are behind in this area.

My main concern at this point about the Procella speakers is that I really cannot imagine what a horn-based system like this sounds like. I've always had soft-dome tweeters. I have very sensitive ears (in a bad way). Loud noises, like a sudden hard clap of the hands, will make me reach for my ears to cover them quite quickly. So if horn-based speakers tend to be a bit more shrill or sharp than the types of speakers I've been used to having, I wonder if that sonic signature would appeal to me. That said I have no idea if the Procella even sound like that - I just have this preconceived notion that horn speakers may be like this - and that notion is likely wrong. But that's what is weighing on my mind. With no great way to audition the speakers, short of getting on a long plane ride, I'm not sure how to proceed.
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post #281 of 290 Old 04-18-2015, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post
You can never have too much headroom. In all seriousness the P15 does awesome in my room, which is a big room. With the money you save by going with a P15 use it towards the ultimate Procella setup!


Dolby Atmos 11.4.6. Oh, how I wish I would happen to be in Amsterdam for a front row seat for this demo. All I can picture is the iconic Pioneer advertisement.
https://iconicphotos.files.wordpress...maninchair.jpg
Thanks. The entire headroom thing is what's hanging me up right now. So far, everyone has said the p15 will be adequate, but then they will always follow it with a "but". It's just difficult making a decision without hearing it.

I'm with ya on procella all around, but it's tough when building an entire room from scratch. Adds up fast. I've contemplated doing procella for the front three, but matching the dome surrounds might not be the best idea.
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post #282 of 290 Old 04-18-2015, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Sorry for the delay in responding - I missed your reply at the time, and only saw it after rereading this thread last night from top to bottom...

I think some mode simulations and desired smooth frequency response over two rows will wind up dictating at least two subwoofers on the front wall. In that case which sub would you recommend that I could use two of on the front wall (behind the screen wall, AT screen)? Seems like that would provide perhaps smoother FR in the room compared to say a P18?



Thanks. In my case, I do not need reference levels, so the advantage of being able to play super clean at very loud volumes is a bit lost on me. I usually listen at say -20 dB to -15 dB on the MV. What I do want, however, is super clean and clear sound that is very well balanced. I love the fact that the Procella line shares the same voice and that the P6iw *appears* to be a good choice for 3D audio ceiling speakers, which is more than I can say compared to how other manufacturers are behind in this area.

My main concern at this point about the Procella speakers is that I really cannot imagine what a horn-based system like this sounds like. I've always had soft-dome tweeters. I have very sensitive ears (in a bad way). Loud noises, like a sudden hard clap of the hands, will make me reach for my ears to cover them quite quickly. So if horn-based speakers tend to be a bit more shrill or sharp than the types of speakers I've been used to having, I wonder if that sonic signature would appeal to me. That said I have no idea if the Procella even sound like that - I just have this preconceived notion that horn speakers may be like this - and that notion is likely wrong. But that's what is weighing on my mind. With no great way to audition the speakers, short of getting on a long plane ride, I'm not sure how to proceed.
I think the idea with one P18 to start and balancing subs added as needed is that the P18 will power the room and dig deep......then you only add balancing if/as necessary. But if you want 2 subs up front then get 2 P15's......as they are equa to one P18.

I listen about -15 MV and the thing I like about the P610 is that I do not need buttkickers in the room.
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post #283 of 290 Old 04-18-2015, 10:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin_Can View Post
Thanks. The entire headroom thing is what's hanging me up right now. So far, everyone has said the p15 will be adequate, but then they will always follow it with a "but". It's just difficult making a decision without hearing it.

I'm with ya on procella all around, but it's tough when building an entire room from scratch. Adds up fast. I've contemplated doing procella for the front three, but matching the dome surrounds might not be the best idea.
See if P6 up front, P5 for surround, and a P15 would fit your budget. I am certain you would be VERY HAPPY.
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post #284 of 290 Old 04-18-2015, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post
I think the idea with one P18 to start and balancing subs added as needed is that the P18 will power the room and dig deep......then you only add balancing if/as necessary. But if you want 2 subs up front then get 2 P15's......as they are equa to one P18.

I listen about -15 MV and the thing I like about the P610 is that I do not need buttkickers in the room.
Interesting. Is it possible to mount the P610 so that the top section (essentially the P6 part) is under the larger part? If I did go with the P610 I'd want to do that because it would better align the tweeter with the ear level of the first row (the only row I really care about), and because it would give about an extra 33% of separation between the front mains that the heights I am thinking of putting at the top of the screen (for future DTS / 3D audio compatibility).

Well, it sounds like the P610's can be separated into two pieces, so that means technically speaking they could be mounted reversed like this. So the real question is whether it would sound perfectly find to do so? Seems like it - but who knows, maybe the speaker is designed to be oriented in this way and messing with it could cause things to sound weird?
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post #285 of 290 Old 04-18-2015, 10:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't see why you couldn't have the P6 module below the P10. But I don't know for sure.
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post #286 of 290 Old 04-18-2015, 10:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I updated the first post in this thread. I fixed the links as Procella Audio now has a brand-new beautiful website. Well, new to me anyway! I also added a link so you can follow them on Twitter.
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post #287 of 290 Old 04-19-2015, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post
See if P6 up front, P5 for surround, and a P15 would fit your budget. I am certain you would be VERY HAPPY.
The bigger issue is actually Atmos. My ceiling isn't high enough to properly use direct radiators in the ceiling, necessitating the use of another brand of reflecting speakers.
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post #288 of 290 Old 04-19-2015, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Did you eventually get the P6iw? How do you like them?

For my setup I am thinking of using P6 for the front 3 channels, P5's for the rest of the 7.1 system and Wides, and two P15 subs, possibly 7 P6iw for Atmos ceiling speakers (two top front, two top middle, one VOG as I am planning ahead for DTS future needs, and two top rears), along with some Procella balancing subs or other such (shallower) subs. However I am a little concerned that the P5's are only rated down to 90 Hz. Since my subs xo will be 80, I wonder if this will leave a big of a "hole" near the xo by using these speakers instead of P6's which go to 70 Hz. Certainly if there's little to no difference in the Wides and surrounds in the P5 vs P6 I'd like to go with the P5 as they are half the cost and we are talking about 6 speakers so this difference adds up real quick!
they havent arrived yet. i believe they'll be shipping towards the end of april.
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post #289 of 290 Old 04-19-2015, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
My main concern at this point about the Procella speakers is that I really cannot imagine what a horn-based system like this sounds like. I've always had soft-dome tweeters. I have very sensitive ears (in a bad way). Loud noises, like a sudden hard clap of the hands, will make me reach for my ears to cover them quite quickly. So if horn-based speakers tend to be a bit more shrill or sharp than the types of speakers I've been used to having, I wonder if that sonic signature would appeal to me. That said I have no idea if the Procella even sound like that - I just have this preconceived notion that horn speakers may be like this - and that notion is likely wrong. But that's what is weighing on my mind. With no great way to audition the speakers, short of getting on a long plane ride, I'm not sure how to proceed.
Interesting, It sounds like you are in fact sensitive to distortion, as caused when dome tweeter systems reach their max SPL and start to distort, as caused by sudden sharp peaks. The good news is that the Procella speakers will not have such distortion as they are capable of much greater dynamic range ("SPL") without distorting. So you do not need to play at very loud volumes to get the benefits of a controlled dispersion system (we use wave guides, not horns!) with high dynamic range drivers. In fact, you could play at lower volume levels, and still get the dynamics coming through correctly and as such enjoy your listening experience more.
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post #290 of 290 Old 04-19-2015, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Interesting. Is it possible to mount the P610 so that the top section (essentially the P6 part) is under the larger part? If I did go with the P610 I'd want to do that because it would better align the tweeter with the ear level of the first row (the only row I really care about), and because it would give about an extra 33% of separation between the front mains that the heights I am thinking of putting at the top of the screen (for future DTS / 3D audio compatibility).

Well, it sounds like the P610's can be separated into two pieces, so that means technically speaking they could be mounted reversed like this. So the real question is whether it would sound perfectly find to do so? Seems like it - but who knows, maybe the speaker is designed to be oriented in this way and messing with it could cause things to sound weird?
Yes, you can mount the P6 below the P10SI, as long as you keep them close together, as to not create a 'gap' between them in the mid-bass range. That would work fine from a loudspeaker perspective.

However, the movie you are watching is mixed according to industry standards, such as described in THX standards, in which the Acoustic Centre (A/C) of the speaker is placed at 5/8 of the Height of the Image. This is where mouths are in close-ups, where most the audio action takes place in the overall image. As per our Handbook, the A/C of the P6 is between the wave guide and the woofer, and that point should be at that 5/8 of image height, to comply with these cinema industry standards. Lowering this A/C for the screen speakers is not a good idea. Neither is lowering the surrounds below head level.

I personally believe that the best way to place 3D audio loudspeakers for all 3D formats is as follows, provided your processor can do loudspeaker mapping:





The loudspeaker mapping will allow your processor to create very believable phantom images anywhere(!) between these loudspeaker positions, including in the Auro positions.
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