What can $1000-$1200 do for me? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 86 Old 03-02-2011, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Update 3
Still can't make up my darned mind

Update 2:
I've put together a list of the suggestions. Please help narrow it down!

Update:
I've make some sacrifices on my TV purchase to allocate more of my budget for speakers. I'm still looking for 5.1 bookshelf sized speakers plus a sub for my mid-sized room. $1200 max, but cheaper is better. These will be paired with a Denon AVR-2311CI receiver.

Original Post:
I've been researching entry-level setups and the Energy Take Classic keeps coming up for that price range.

I plan on getting a Denon AVR-891 or a 2311CI receiver in the near future and want a decent 5.1 setup to pair with it.
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post #2 of 86 Old 03-02-2011, 02:20 PM
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Sure. The Energy Take Classic for $399 shipped! (that's the price the egg has it at fyi)

I'm assuming you mean that you'd be willing to spend an extra 1-200 dollars for better quality sound.

Be warned you are very likely going to get a lot of suggestions to take your budged and start with a 3.1 setup. Also be warned ... these guys are extremely persuasive. They flipped me from being 99% ready to order the Energy's to spending similar money (soon) on a 3.1 setup.

Good luck in your searches!
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post #3 of 86 Old 03-02-2011, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurfocolypse View Post

Sure. The Energy Take Classic for $399 shipped! (that's the price the egg has it at fyi)

I'm assuming you mean that you'd be willing to spend an extra 1-200 dollars for better quality sound.

Be warned you are very likely going to get a lot of suggestions to take your budged and start with a 3.1 setup. Also be warned ... these guys are extremely persuasive. They flipped me from being 99% ready to order the Energy's to spending similar money (soon) on a 3.1 setup.

Good luck in your searches!

Yes, thats what I meant.

I see what you mean, but I am replacing an ancient Onkyo HTIB 5.1, so ... the wiring is all done and I don't think it will be hard to improve on that.

But yes, I understand the less, but higher quality mentality, but I do intend to go ahead with a budget 5.1 with maybe an eye towards upgrading piecemeal over a few years.

So the question is still out there, anything better than Energy Take Classic within $600?
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post #4 of 86 Old 03-02-2011, 03:02 PM
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Yes there are definitely better deals out there for $600.

3 pairs of Energy CB-5s and the BIC F12 subwoofer would be way better than the Take Classics. Use one CB-5 as a center and store the extra as a spare.

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it..._c=site_search

http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-F1...9106912&sr=8-1

That'll cost your $483 shipped.

If you can get bigger speakers the Jamo S606 and same Bic F12 sub will cost you $583 shipped.
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it..._c=site_search

Also check out the Pioneer FS51 towers, C21 center and BS21 bookshelf speakers at Best Buy with the Bic F12 subwoofer. That'll cost you around $565.

The Take Classics are fine for what they are but if you want bigger, fuller sound, get something larger than satellite speakers.

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post #5 of 86 Old 03-02-2011, 03:03 PM
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The Take Classic is a fine system if your room is small enough, for example a sealed room around 175sqft (13x13ish). But I wouldn't pay a dime over $400 shipped and I wouldn't buy one for a larger room.

As you were warned starting with a 2.1 or 3.1 system and adding the surrounds later is usually the smartest move because the quality of the mains and the subwoofer will make or break the system however I'll toss out a couple of 5.1 options.

Option 1
3x Infinity Primus P162 or P163 bookshelves (minor cosmetic differences) as the front left, center, and right (LCR); 2x P152 or P153 bookshelves as surrounds; and a decent $200 subwoofer. That should come in at roughly $600 shipped for a system that will spank the Take Classics.

Option 2
The above system but with 2x P162/P163, a PC251 center, 2x P152/P153 and a $200 subwoofer should be prettier due to the more streamlined center but will take you roughly $100 over budget. However you may be able to find the center used and save that $100.

Subwoofers
I'm not an expert on $200 subwoofers but you may want to investigate and get opinions on Bic's F12 which is on sale at Amazon. I'm not endorsing it, just putting it forth as a budget priced candidate for you to investigate.

Upgrades
It's a good idea to have a plan. In this case the above speakers are plenty good enough for a medium sized room however if you move to larger quarters you can always add a pair of P362/P363 towers and go 7.1 or 7.2. And maybe down the road you could upgrade to a premium subwoofer like a Hsu Research, Outlaw Audio, SVSound, or Elemental designs but that can wait for now.
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post #6 of 86 Old 03-02-2011, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sholling View Post

the take classic is a fine system if your room is small enough, for example a sealed room around 175sqft (13x13ish). But i wouldn't pay a dime over $400 shipped and i wouldn't buy one for a larger room.

As you were warned starting with a 2.1 or 3.1 system and adding the surrounds later is usually the smartest move because the quality of the mains and the subwoofer will make or break the system however i'll toss out a couple of 5.1 options.

option 1
3x infinity primus p162 or p163 bookshelves (minor cosmetic differences) as the front left, center, and right (lcr); 2x p152 or p152 bookshelves as surrounds; and a decent $200 subwoofer. That should come in at roughly $600 shipped for a system that will spank the take classics.

option 2
the above system but with 2x p162/p163, a pc251 center, 2x p152/p153 and a $200 subwoofer should be prettier due to the more streamlined center but will take you roughly $100 over budget. However you may be able to find the center used and save that $100.

subwoofers
i'm not an expert on $200 subwoofers but you may want to investigate and get opinions on bic's f12 which is on sale at amazon. I'm not endorsing it, just putting it forth as a budget priced candidate for you to investigate.

upgrades
it's a good idea to have a plan. In this case the speakers a plenty good enough for a medium sized room however if you move to larger quarters you can always add a pair of p362/p363 towers and go 7.1 or 7.2. And maybe down the road you could upgrade to a premium subwoofer like a hsu research, outlaw audio, svsound, or elemental designs but that can wait for now.

+1
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post #7 of 86 Old 03-02-2011, 10:28 PM - Thread Starter
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My living room is basically 29'x16'. Half is used as a formal dining room, the other half is our living room. The area currently covered by speakers is roughly 16'x16', so basically the area behind the rear satellites is open.

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post #8 of 86 Old 03-02-2011, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadmium View Post

My living room is basically 29'x16'. Half is used as a formal dining room, the other half is our living room. The area currently covered by speakers is roughly 16'x16', so basically the area behind the rear satellites is open.

Wow that is a huge space way too big for satellites. If your willing to spend $600, I would get the Jamo S606 hcs3 5.0 speaker set with Bic F12 subwoofer
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post #9 of 86 Old 03-02-2011, 11:31 PM
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Just get a couple tower speakers, that way you get a fuller, richer sound than satellites or small bookshelf speakers. I would go for the Infinity Primus p363 towers. I guarantee two of those will be a better sounding system than any equivalently priced satellite/subwoofer set.
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post #10 of 86 Old 03-03-2011, 12:10 AM
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The Take Classics would be way too small for that room. That's about the limit for the P162s and way beyond the limit of a single $200 sub. I'd go 2.1 with the P362/P363 towers and a sub and then add the other bits as money allows.
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post #11 of 86 Old 03-03-2011, 06:55 AM
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I have never heard them but just from the looks alone in the picture that Jamo deal for $400 seems terrific. How would these Jamo's compare to the Pioneer's that are getting consistently great reviews here and also mentioned in this thread? I am specifically interested in which set of towers you prefer of these two? I also am interested in the same comparison with the Infinity P363 towers included. Which of these three would you prefer not taking cost into it just on sound quality alone? Thanks.

Also, it looks like in the picture at Vanns that the Jamo towers are on like a small metal mini stand to take them a little off the floor. Do you know if those come with the speakers? Thanks again.

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post #12 of 86 Old 03-03-2011, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roark View Post

I have never heard them but just from the looks alone in the picture that Jamo deal for $400 seems terrific. How would these Jamo's compare to the Pioneer's that are getting consistently great reviews here and also mentioned in this thread? I am specifically interested in which set of towers you prefer of these two? I also am interested in the same comparison with the Infinity P363 towers included. Which of these three would you prefer not taking cost into it just on sound quality alone? Thanks.

Also, it looks like in the picture at Vanns that the Jamo towers are on like a small metal mini stand to take them a little off the floor. Do you know if those come with the speakers? Thanks again.

roark

I have not heard the Jamo's - however, I am a litle concerned about
their build quality - however, their higher end stuff is good.

The Infinity and Pioneer speakers are good for the price. I prefer the
overall balanced sound of the Pioneer speakers. However, in a larger
type room - I would lean towards the Infinity.

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post #13 of 86 Old 03-03-2011, 08:20 AM
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I'm not concerned about the build quality of the Jamo's at all. I have different Jamo towers but the same S60 center that comes with the S606 package. The build quality is very good. I think the build quality of the towers is better than the Infinity P362. Aesthetics is not the strong point of the P362 tower, they look cheap to me when you seem them in person. Sound is good though.

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post #14 of 86 Old 03-03-2011, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I am willing to spend $600, though probably not much more - but that could depend on which 2011 TV model I end up going with.

Would the Energy CB-5s be considered okay for the room size? Keep in mind I'm not trying to fill the whole room with sound, only half of it, though I do realize the sound will bounce around a bit.

Also, I wouldn't mind going with towers, but part of the WAF is staying low profile, and bookshelf units are already a compromise.

Finally, if I used a bookshelf as a center channel, would I have any issues turning it on it's side? I've read some discussion on that possibly affecting the sound quality...?
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post #15 of 86 Old 03-03-2011, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadmium View Post

Finally, if I used a bookshelf as a center channel, would I have any issues turning it on it's side? I've read some discussion on that possibly affecting the sound quality...?

Most bookshelf speakers are made to stand up.

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Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
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where were you guys when I asked this question a few months ago? well I have a 3.1 with polk audio m60 and a cs2 center ... but i would of gone for that jamo system if i knew about it, i heard good things about those
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post #17 of 86 Old 03-03-2011, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

Most bookshelf speakers are made to stand up.

But more precisely, what happens when turned sideways?
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post #18 of 86 Old 03-03-2011, 02:21 PM
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How close will you be sitting to the left, center, and right speakers?

I have heard the Take Classic system in a large room like yours before. While they will not give you a cinematic experience, they will still work if that isn't your expectation.

For a satellite system in your price range, I suggest the Hsu Ventriliquist setup. I have heard no small satellite system sound any better (especially the subwoofer).
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/performance2.html

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post #19 of 86 Old 03-03-2011, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadmium View Post

But more precisely, what happens when turned sideways?

The horizontal and vertical dispersion characteristics are swapped which is usually not desireable.

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post #20 of 86 Old 03-03-2011, 02:30 PM
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Could you spring for a little more $$? I have an older 3.1 Klipsch Quintet setup in my bed room with a SW350 sub and I'm very happy with the sound quality. My surrounds are ceiling mounted to give me 5.1. Have you ever demo'd Klipsch? I've listened to the Energy's and felt that the tweeter was way too harsh.
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post #21 of 86 Old 03-03-2011, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

The horizontal and vertical dispersion characteristics are swapped which is usually not desireable.

+1
The imaging becomes vague.
The crossover was made for the way it will be placed.

There are a view speakers that were made to turn side ways -
the Snell K7 can be turned side ways - overall it works better
standing up.

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post #22 of 86 Old 03-03-2011, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, so whats the least I can spend to get a "decent" 5.1 surround system with speakers no larger than bookshelf size (plus sub)?

Keep in mind, I'm coming from a 7 year old onkyo HTIB, so my expectations are moderately low. I want something better, but not necessarily rivaling the IMAX theater down the street.
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post #23 of 86 Old 03-03-2011, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadmium View Post

But more precisely, what happens when turned sideways?

Not a problem, the speakers are probably close enough so as to constitute a coherent source. I checked them out; and they are a coherent source--their sound waves merge and act as a single speaker regardless of their orientation.
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post #24 of 86 Old 03-03-2011, 03:17 PM
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Not a problem, the speakers are probably close enough so as to constitute a coherent source. I checked them out; and they are a coherent source--their sound waves merge and act as a single speaker regardless of their orientation.

The problem is off-axis listening, not coherence in the primary listening position.

Sure, it could work fine depending on the seating positions.

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post #25 of 86 Old 03-03-2011, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadmium View Post

Ok, so whats the least I can spend to get a "decent" 5.1 surround system with speakers no larger than bookshelf size (plus sub)?

Keep in mind, I'm coming from a 7 year old onkyo HTIB, so my expectations are moderately low. I want something better, but not necessarily rivaling the IMAX theater down the street.

The Hsu system I linked to is MUCH better than any HTIB I have heard.

You need to set your price point and expectations. With this group you are asking...the price will keep rising!

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post #26 of 86 Old 03-03-2011, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neceo View Post

where were you guys when I asked this question a few months ago? well I have a 3.1 with polk audio m60 and a cs2 center ... but i would of gone for that jamo system if i knew about it, i heard good things about those

That Jamo S606 HCS system wasn't available a few months ago....at least not for $399.

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post #27 of 86 Old 03-03-2011, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdee View Post

Could you spring for a little more $$? I have an older 3.1 Klipsch Quintet setup in my bed room with a SW350 sub and I'm very happy with the sound quality. My surrounds are ceiling mounted to give me 5.1. Have you ever demo'd Klipsch? I've listened to the Energy's and felt that the tweeter was way too harsh.

Really? I have never heard anyone say the Energy tweeter was harsher than a Klipsch Quintet. Usually it is the other way around but we all hear things differently.

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post #28 of 86 Old 03-03-2011, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadmium View Post

Ok, so whats the least I can spend to get a "decent" 5.1 surround system with speakers no larger than bookshelf size (plus sub)?

Keep in mind, I'm coming from a 7 year old onkyo HTIB, so my expectations are moderately low. I want something better, but not necessarily rivaling the IMAX theater down the street.

Then go with the 5.1 Infinity P162 based system that I suggested earlier that fits in your budget. However I would plan to save up for a second subwoofer down the road.
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post #29 of 86 Old 03-04-2011, 04:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

The problem is off-axis listening, not coherence in the primary listening position.

Sure, it could work fine depending on the seating positions.

If two speakers form a coherent source, they will not lobe regardless of seating position.
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post #30 of 86 Old 03-04-2011, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadmium View Post

Yes, I am willing to spend $600, though probably not much more - but that could depend on which 2011 TV model I end up going with.

Would the Energy CB-5s be considered okay for the room size? Keep in mind I'm not trying to fill the whole room with sound, only half of it, though I do realize the sound will bounce around a bit.

Also, I wouldn't mind going with towers, but part of the WAF is staying low profile, and bookshelf units are already a compromise.

Finally, if I used a bookshelf as a center channel, would I have any issues turning it on it's side? I've read some discussion on that possibly affecting the sound quality...?

A couple of points: 1) the Energy CB-5s are the same speakers as the Take Classics; even the Take center channel is essentially just a CB-5 on its side; 2) the general rule is that you should spend more on your speakers than your receiver; 3) the Onkyo tx-sr 608 tests out as well as the Denon 2311 (Hometheater.com) and is only about $370; 4) given the size and shape of your room you are likely to have a 40 cycle standing wave (regardless what speakers you use – not much you can do about it, except place your listening/watching area on a sidewall to minimize its effect)(the point is that getting a better sub might not help your overall sound).

Final point: take the money you save on your speaker/receiver combination and get a bigger screen TV; almost everyone gets a screen too small to resolve 1080p from their watching distance.
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