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post #541 of 1777 Old 02-16-2012, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merrymaid520 View Post

In all honesty, I rather have you come instead of Warp. He's always at these speaker events bragging of his arrangement of 22 subs, 435,000 watts of amps, and music servers with 2 billion songs and movies.






ROFLMAO, I think it's Larry the Cable Guy who said it best "I don't care who you are, now that's funny"!

Thanks for the laugh Brandon, I do have a fairly decent library of high resolution music, not too much out of the ordinary equipment wise.

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post #542 of 1777 Old 02-16-2012, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pet Motel View Post

ROFLMAO, I think it's Larry the Cable Guy who said it best "I don't care who you are, now that's funny"!

Thanks for the laugh Brandon, I do have a fairly decent library of high resolution music, not too much out of the ordinary equipment wise.

Jay

Jay,
It would be nice to have another fellow Ascend Tower owner in the mix, I am always outnumbered by those darn Salk guys
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post #543 of 1777 Old 02-16-2012, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

I hope you can make it. And I might just stick an AMC RAAL in one of the
Phil 2's. We'll see how many can tell which, or even whether I did it.

Have you tried the direct comparison yourself? I've done that with listeners a couple times and people always say the change is obvious.

It's not quite as obvious with the 70-10 as it is with the larger ribbons like the 70-20 and 140-15, but still there.

Just curious if you mind saying, what caps do you use on the tweeter circuit in those speakers?

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post #544 of 1777 Old 02-16-2012, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboFC3S View Post

Have you tried the direct comparison yourself? I've done that with listeners a couple times and people always say the change is obvious.

It's not quite as obvious with the 70-10 as it is with the larger ribbons like the 70-20 and 140-15, but still there.

Just curious if you mind saying, what caps do you use on the tweeter circuit in those speakers?

I hope you can attend. I am very interested in your inert cabinets and how they compare. That said, second is your requested comparision but hopefully we as listners will not know which is which. Dennis can you bring your quick switching preamp built for you?
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post #545 of 1777 Old 02-16-2012, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merrymaid520 View Post

Jay,
It would be nice to have another fellow Ascend Tower owner in the mix, I am always outnumbered by those darn Salk guys

Yes, yes it would. I am sure we can fit Jay in, so he's officially invited. What say you, Jay? I think we've got room for one more.

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post #546 of 1777 Old 02-16-2012, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Yes, yes it would. I am sure we can fit Jay in, so he's officially invited. What say you, Jay? I think we've got room for one more.

I made, and received official permission from the CEO (AKA the better half), so yes, I will be there. Please let me know where to send donations for the food, and beverage fund.

Jay

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post #547 of 1777 Old 02-16-2012, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Bessinger View Post

I hope you can attend. I am very interested in your inert cabinets and how they compare. That said, second is your requested comparision but hopefully we as listners will not know which is which. Dennis can you bring your quick switching preamp built for you?

Thanks Randy, if I build a cabinet big enough to fit in, it would double as a fallout shelter The more I work with Baltic Birch ply, the more I can't stand any form of MDF.

I'm personally not a fan of quick comparisons like trying to spot the Amorphous Core in crowded and unfamiliar settings. Imaging is such a huge part of what you're listening for, that unless you're in or near the sweet spot, the difference will be unnoticed. Most comparison tests I do here for things like caps, wire, etc are done with 3 people at most in the room.

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post #548 of 1777 Old 02-16-2012, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboFC3S View Post

Have you tried the direct comparison yourself? I've done that with listeners a couple times and people always say the change is obvious.

It's not quite as obvious with the 70-10 as it is with the larger ribbons like the 70-20 and 140-15, but still there.

Just curious if you mind saying, what caps do you use on the tweeter circuit in those speakers?

I've participated in a number of well-controlled ABX comparisons with different caps, and the results are always the same. No difference. And my personal comparison for the RAALs was with the 70-20, using the SoundScape 10, one with an AMC, the other with the stock. Zippo difference as far as I was concerned, but that wasn't a controlled test. I really have no stake in this. If there's a difference, I could just offer the AMC for the price difference I pay. The fact that I don't do that reflects my sincere opinion that customers should spend their money on more important upgrades or CD's. Or charity.
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post #549 of 1777 Old 02-16-2012, 07:43 PM
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I'll come forward and say right now, I don't believe the Ascend's will trump the HT2-TL's. If they do I'll be on the preorder list that same day.

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post #550 of 1777 Old 02-16-2012, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

I've participated in a number of well-controlled ABX comparisons with different caps, and the results are always the same. No difference. And my personal comparison for the RAALs was with the 70-20, using the SoundScape 10, one with an AMC, the other with the stock. Zippo difference as far as I was concerned, but that wasn't a controlled test. I really have no stake in this. If there's a difference, I could just offer the AMC for the price difference I pay. The fact that I don't do that reflects my sincere opinion that customers should spend their money on more important upgrades or CD's. Or charity.

I was only curious if you had made comparisons between standard and amorphous core or not. I wasn't meaning to imply anything other. And I understand if you don't want to say what caps you're using, I was only curious and meant nothing by it.

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post #551 of 1777 Old 02-16-2012, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboFC3S View Post

Thanks Randy, if I build a cabinet big enough to fit in, it would double as a fallout shelter The more I work with Baltic Birch ply, the more I can't stand any form of MDF.

I'm personally not a fan of quick comparisons like trying to spot the Amorphous Core in crowded and unfamiliar settings. Imaging is such a huge part of what you're listening for, that unless you're in or near the sweet spot, the difference will be unnoticed. Most comparison tests I do here for things like caps, wire, etc are done with 3 people at most in the room.

How do you measure the inertness of your cabinets. Just curious?
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post #552 of 1777 Old 02-16-2012, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

Or charity.

You know we could all do with a little bit more of that. I think we should do a little something for a charity when we meet. Nothing big, but how about a 5-10 charity fee for the host's favorite charity? Not a big deal to me either way, but we can all part with a few bucks for our fun event...do you think?
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post #553 of 1777 Old 02-16-2012, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboFC3S View Post

I was only curious if you had made comparisons between standard and amorphous core or not. I wasn't meaning to imply anything other. And I understand if you don't want to say what caps you're using, I was only curious and meant nothing by it.

I didn't say which caps I'm using because I stated that I don't think there's any difference. In any event, if you have to raise the cap $outlay to some escalated level in order to hear the difference between the AMC and the ferrite core, then I think that pretty much says there isn't much difference. I did agree to configure one of my Philharmonic 2's with $750 in cap upgrades. I thought it sounded really good. The next pair that went out the door had the stock Clarity Cap Px in the tweeter and mid section, and Solen caps in the woofer. I thought it sounded really good.
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post #554 of 1777 Old 02-16-2012, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Bessinger View Post

You know we could all do with a little bit more of that. I think we should do a little something for a charity when we meet. Nothing big, but how about a 5-10 charity fee for the host's favorite charity? Not a big deal to me either way, but we can all part with a few bucks for our fun event...do you think?

I'm with you on that. It's easy to lose perspective in the pursuit of our favorite hobby. Most of the world couldn't afford to even think about stuff like this.
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post #555 of 1777 Old 02-16-2012, 08:32 PM
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Have you read the Clarity capacitor paper, Ryan or Dennis, on vibration?

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #556 of 1777 Old 02-16-2012, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Randy Bessinger View Post

How do you measure the inertness of your cabinets. Just curious?

I have the accelerometer attachment for CLIO. But once a cabinet becomes essentially dead with regard to resonances, sound transmission through the walls is the primary concern. That's why my cabinets have the void in the walls that's filled with my secret sauce. To test sound transmission I buried a mic capsule in the outer wall, covered by a huge mound of putty ... and then played test tones. You'd be shocked at the levels of sound that can pass right through single wall cabinets, and depending on what I used to fill the void in the walls, there was a +/-20db difference.

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post #557 of 1777 Old 02-16-2012, 08:36 PM
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Have you read the Clarity capacitor paper, Ryan or Dennis, on vibration?

I read it when it was released a few years ago, which prompted me to give the MR's a try. Currently they're without a doubt my favorite "no flavor added" cap.

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post #558 of 1777 Old 02-17-2012, 05:07 AM
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Does our host have SACD capability, and if so, might I be able to bring some music? I've been buying quite a bit lately (new speakers have a tendency to cause that). I've come across some really good blues titles that might be of interest.

Jay

Edit: Dennis, if you would like to hear the Ascend "Horizon" center, I should have mine before the meet and would be able to bring it along.

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post #559 of 1777 Old 02-17-2012, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Pet Motel View Post

I made, and received official permission from the CEO (AKA the better half), so yes, I will be there. Please let me know where to send donations for the food, and beverage fund.

Jay

Great news, Jay - looking forward to it. As the even draws nearer we'll start giving out contact info and the address, as well as get more into the semantics of the event (including food and what not).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Bessinger View Post

You know we could all do with a little bit more of that. I think we should do a little something for a charity when we meet. Nothing big, but how about a 5-10 charity fee for the host's favorite charity? Not a big deal to me either way, but we can all part with a few bucks for our fun event...do you think?

I am down.

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post #560 of 1777 Old 02-17-2012, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pet Motel View Post

Does our host have SACD capability, and if so, might I be able to bring some music? I've been buying quite a bit lately (new speakers have a tendency to cause that). I've come across some really good blues titles that might be of interest.

Jay

Edit: Dennis, if you would like to hear the Ascend "Horizon" center, I should have mine before the meet and would be able to bring it along.

We plan on streaming via the modified Squeezebox Touch, but I know he does have an Oppo player. I'll let him confirm, but I don't think we're going to use it. We want the "front end" system to remain static, as then the sound won't change at all and it'll be apples to apples.

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post #561 of 1777 Old 02-17-2012, 07:11 AM
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Have you read the Clarity capacitor paper, Ryan or Dennis, on vibration?

Well, I've read the white paper that's linked at Madisound on the Clarity page.
It's too sketchy to make much of a case--we're never told the absolute value or range of values of resonance in the caps that the blind testors, or how these related to the levels in the MR range vs. other caps, or how many were used in the crossover and at what frequencies. I was impressed, however, that they engaged in seemingly serious research, and I'm not going to dismiss it out of hand. My problem is that one 5.6 uF MR cap costs approximately $90 more than a regular Clarity PX 5.6 uF. So one pair of caps puts you up $180, and in my crossover we have 6 more to go in the tweeter and mid section,some substantially greater than 5.6 uf. If I used paralleled MR's in my woofer section, the cost would be approximately $2,000 a pair. Frankly, I find cabinet deadening and isolation efforts more interesting and probably more cost effective than MR caps.
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post #562 of 1777 Old 02-17-2012, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pet Motel View Post

Does our host have SACD capability, and if so, might I be able to bring some music? I've been buying quite a bit lately (new speakers have a tendency to cause that). I've come across some really good blues titles that might be of interest.

Jay

Edit: Dennis, if you would like to hear the Ascend "Horizon" center, I should have mine before the meet and would be able to bring it along.

So that's what the big hog RAAL WMTW center is called--Horizon? If so, I would be very interested to hear it if it's easy for you to pull off. Thanks.
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post #563 of 1777 Old 02-17-2012, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboFC3S View Post

I have the accelerometer attachment for CLIO. But once a cabinet becomes essentially dead with regard to resonances, sound transmission through the walls is the primary concern. That's why my cabinets have the void in the walls that's filled with my secret sauce. To test sound transmission I buried a mic capsule in the outer wall, covered by a huge mound of putty ... and then played test tones. You'd be shocked at the levels of sound that can pass right through single wall cabinets, and depending on what I used to fill the void in the walls, there was a +/-20db difference.

thx
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post #564 of 1777 Old 02-17-2012, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

We plan on streaming via the modified Squeezebox Touch, but I know he does have an Oppo player. I'll let him confirm, but I don't think we're going to use it. We want the "front end" system to remain static, as then the sound won't change at all and it'll be apples to apples.

Well this will be a good opportunity to learn about streaming tech, I'm still strictly old school in this regard. Shiny discs in the OPPO is the only method I currently have at my disposal.


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post #565 of 1777 Old 02-17-2012, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

So that's what the big hog RAAL WMTW center is called--Horizon? If so, I would be very interested to hear it if it's easy for you to pull off. Thanks.

Man need big hog speakers in mancave to make big noise!

Jay

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post #566 of 1777 Old 02-17-2012, 01:58 PM
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I am very much looking forward to meeting the new faces at the GTG, and of course hearing all of the great speakers that will be here. This is a rare opportunity, and we need to make the most of it. So of course I've been thinking about things.

We have a relatively large group planned. With 6 or more speakers, and 20+ people, getting everyone time in the sweet spot is not going to be easy. I want to attempt to allow everyone the time they deserve to listen to each speaker. As such, we need to have a great plan and execute it as efficiently as possible. I'm certain each speaker is going to require a little bit of setup time to get positioned for it's best sound (within limits of course).

One thought I had is that I have sections of tracks I use for critical listening and comparisons. For example, I may use the first 50 seconds of one track, and something like 2m:35s to 3m:15s of another track. I've heard of people making a single track consisting of many segments of tracks for just this purpose. Maybe we could attempt to assemble such a thing that would hopefully be around 3 minutes or so in length. Each person could listen and use it for comparisons.

I'm afraid if we allow open listening to many different tracks, we'll end up burning too much time and some attendee's may get short changed. I'm not saying we can't do that, but I hope everyone understands my concerns.

I am of course open to any ideas of how to handle things. My only goal is to try and accommodate everyone, and make this a GTG one that everyone considers one of the best they ever attended.

I was also thinking it may be a good idea for everyone to PM their email addresses for communication on the details of the GTG. My goal would be to have one email that everyone can see all of the responses.

Thoughts?
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post #567 of 1777 Old 02-17-2012, 05:12 PM
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I have done these types of events many times and since it is your house, I would suggest you take control of the tunes (and delegate someone to rip a demo piece) and not open up free play until after all the speakers have been heard.

For the sweet-spot, just cluster the chairs in a triangle with the tip being the perfect center and number them. Rotate folks through numerically every 2 minutes or so. While folks mingle in the back you could have 6 chairs up front to rotate through. Maybe we all draw numbers and that determines the order?

I'm happy to create a mini-playlist and others will be willing to as well. I would recommend all types of music with female vocals, male vocals, instrumentation, orchestral, choir, organ, folk, etc. Even if just a 10 or 15 second piece each. And you could have 2 of these to break up the monotony.
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post #568 of 1777 Old 02-17-2012, 05:50 PM
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PAD: You touched on the one thing that isn't good in my room. This is a living room, and while I think the room sounds better than any room I've been in, it is a living room. It's a long wall setup and I have a large sectional couch. My listening position seating is far from ideal. It of course works for me, but it's not set up for a GTG. I will only be able to accommodate a single listener at a time unless guys want to snuggle up together on the couch. In the past we have, but that's those of us that know each other well enough to do so. You can see this in the pictures I posted in reply #247 on page 9.

I would absolutely appreciate some playlist ideas. There is a lot I like to use, and cutting it down is going to be tough. I would like ideas from everyone, and a consensus on the list would be great. Let's get the ideas started!

I also believe we all listen to music differently. Some people focus on vocals, some on instruments, some on bass, others on treble, and some try to grasp everything. I always appreciate knowing what specifically someone hears in a particular track. I think this helps keep everyone on the same page. Who knows, maybe we'll all learn something as well? I know I always do.

I'll start by throwing out some of the tracks I'd like to use:

"Boxenkiller" Cyrill Lutzelschwab and Martin Hess
"Walking On The Moon" The Yuri Honing Trio
"You Haven't Done Nothin'" Jen Chapin
"When I Need You" Jocelyn B. Smith (live recording)
"Rubina" Joe Satriani
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post #569 of 1777 Old 02-18-2012, 03:42 AM
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What are the dimensions of the room? Maybe using the short wall and kitchen table chairs for just this day would work.

Otherwise, is there room behind the couch or is it against the wall?
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post #570 of 1777 Old 02-18-2012, 03:50 AM
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After looking at that photo of the couch position I would definitely put the speakers on the less trafficked short wall, move the couch up against the wall, and use kitchen table chairs in a bunch much like hotel rooms at audio shows. You can have a whole bunch more folks in the room, the front and rear treatments act like first reflection treatments (close enough), and you can make it less comfortable for the serious listeners so they don't sit back and relax too much in the sweet spot.

I have tons of playlists on my Touch. I'll recommend some of my favorite tracks - 100 or so will do?
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