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post #1381 of 1777 Old 04-18-2012, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post


Maybe I am missing a piece of information. The LMS 5400's are some of the baddest (in a good way) drivers made for HT subwoofer duty. Over 3" peak to peak and from what I have seen, can do a lot more excursion without damage. They take 2,000 watts continuous and 8,000 watt peaks. Those drivers are like the holy grail of HT drivers. If I can get 120db in room with my 18" Malstrom-x, pair of 12" TC Sounds and a 12" Shiva-X, then a pair of LMS 5400 drivers should not have any problem doing 120db + if feed enough wattage.

I asked Nuance the same question via pm as well. He could share that here. The LMS5400 specs have also been shown to be a bit off but thats in another thread and forum.
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post #1382 of 1777 Old 04-18-2012, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post


Maybe I am missing a piece of information. The LMS 5400's are some of the baddest (in a good way) drivers made for HT subwoofer duty. Over 3" peak to peak and from what I have seen, can do a lot more excursion without damage. They take 2,000 watts continuous and 8,000 watt peaks. Those drivers are like the holy grail of HT drivers. If I can get 120db in room with my 18" Malstrom-x, pair of 12" TC Sounds and a 12" Shiva-X, then a pair of LMS 5400 drivers should not have any problem doing 120db + if feed enough wattage.

You're overlooking that we used a 2-channel preamp for music, and those don't have channel level adjustments like receivers do. Using the preamp the JTRs and Seatons were around 11-12 dB louder than the LMS5400's, even with the Behringer EP4000's bridged and maxed out gain wise. Later on when we moved to watch movie scenes I believe Terry simply increased the subwoofer output through the receiver and lowered the speaker levels. Again, you cannot do this with a 2-channel preamp, hence the dilemma with music.

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post #1383 of 1777 Old 04-18-2012, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post


Maybe I am missing a piece of information. The LMS 5400's are some of the baddest (in a good way) drivers made for HT subwoofer duty. Over 3" peak to peak and from what I have seen, can do a lot more excursion without damage. They take 2,000 watts continuous and 8,000 watt peaks. Those drivers are like the holy grail of HT drivers. If I can get 120db in room with my 18" Malstrom-x, pair of 12" TC Sounds and a 12" Shiva-X, then a pair of LMS 5400 drivers should not have any problem doing 120db + if feed enough wattage.

Under powered in a large open concept room will not produce those properties from even the best of drivers, especially sealed.

He's only running 1800w per driver - with an EP4000 each. The cabs are a bit oversized to allow for less air spring control of said driver so amp power is about right for his room/boxes, but those amps still wont push the LMSs to their limits in in this scenario. Best case maybe half the output they could get with that amp.

His room is stated to be in the 6400^3 arena but IMO its understated with the high ceilings, open to kitchen, hallways and perhaps bathroom doors open, bedrooms?!?!

For Terry's purposes they are more then adequate for his listening habits.,
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post #1384 of 1777 Old 04-18-2012, 09:31 PM
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So, a little later than I had hoped, but here are my impressions from the GTG!

Let me just say - not a one of these speakers was a bad experience for me. I thought each one was impressive in specific areas and ok in others. I moved around the room to hear from different points. Apologies for not having this done sooner - been a crazy week so far.

Philharmonic IIs

Aesthetically speaking, I liked the unique look of these (as well as the Soundscapes) as I tend to get tired of seeing the same ol' rectangle box shape. As far as soundstage, I felt the it was wide with a slight degrade in quality once I got outside about 30 degrees. When I sat in the sweet spot, I closed my eyes for a while and then opened them and tried to focus on Terry's Panasonic to see how well the speakers "disappeared" for me (I did this with all speakers). I struggled to get past the feeling that I could point to which speaker was producing specific sounds - is this what some refer to as imaging? To me, it performed very well on orchestral tracks with an emphasis on horns - probably one of the best in this regard. Vocals - both male and female - sounded good to my untrained ear - the only highs I did not care for were the flute in the one track. However, this was true for every speaker but two for me. One thing I noticed with some of the other speakers I had listened to prior to this GTG was that vocals were overpowered by the instruments - this was not the case with the Phils - the vocals were very prominent. This was my 5th favorite of the day, but so close to another that I had them interchangeable.




Salk Songtowers

Aesthetically, the finish on Nuance's speakers was quite impressive. I am leaning toward a black finish as mine will be in a dedicated HT, but if I was doing a living room, I would love to get this finish. These had a nice wide soundstage with a slight degradation in the soundfield again outside of 30 degrees with no degradation when I was standing behind the sweet spot. I felt they imaged pretty well but just felt that they were overmatched for the space they were trying to fill as they just did not seem to have a lot of pop. Orchestral tracks were very triumphant with crisp horns; however, the flute sounded very distorted to me. Vocals were not overpowered at all. I felt vocal dynamics were handled incredibly well until it hit higher female notes where I felt there was some distortion - much like with the flute. This was my 6th favorite speaker of the day yet was so close to the Phils that I would make them interchangeable.

Ascend Sierra Towers

These had the high gloss black finish on them - very nice finish and more than likely the finish I will be doing in whichever speaker I choose - provided it is available of course. The soundstage was very wide with no degradtion standing and a slight degradation when I got to about 40 degrees. These disappeared completely for me and I was able to focus in on Terry's TV without issue with a nice, enveloping sound. Orchestral tracks were handled really well - I liked that I could almost "point" to where each section was - with very crisp horns. The flute came across OK - it distorted for me on the highest notes. These were the 1st speaker that I really enjoyed the symbols on the Hells Bells track. Vocals were not overpowered at all and I felt vocal dynamics were handled really well. All in all, I felt they had a very natural sound with this room size probably being right at their limit. These were my 3rd favorite speaker of the day. They were very close to the Seatons for me with a slight edge to the Ascends.



JTR Triple 12 HTs

Aesthetically, these had a nice flat black finish but the 3 same-size driver cavaties did not jump out for me. These were the first set of speakers where I did not notice a degradation in the soundstage off axis or standing up, but I also did not feel they disappeared as effectively or had an enveloping sound. The soundstage did feel forward and slightly fatiguing - this was the first of two speakers that I could tell I was getting tired toward the end of the audition. Orchestral tracks played really well - horns were crisp and the flute came across better than all but two other speakers. The Hells Bells symbol was very clean - I felt it was slightly better than the Ascends. This was the first speaker I was really impressed with how the piano sounded - I just felt I could hear the stroke of the key. I felt the same about the guitar - Rubina came across very well. Vocals were not overpowered, but there were a few instrumental notes that I did feel were (noticed this mostly during Red Rain track). Male vocal dynamics were handled well - the female vocals were where I really noticed the fatigue factor as they were just a bit overwhelming. Once all the speakers were auditioned and we set these up with Terry's subs, I felt that if I were looking for a speaker that I used for 100% HT, this speaker would perform very well. This was my 7th favorite speaker of the day. Note - Jeff's shop is very close to where I live so I am going to see if I can get there to give these a listen with his setup.



Salk HT2s

Aesthetically, I really liked the look of these - they had a very nice black finish and had a bit more shape than your standard box. The soundstage was very wide with no degradation off axis or standing and was the first speaker that did not feel forward. These also disappeared completely - I remember actually thinking this was the 1st speaker that disappeared with eyes closed and open. The sound was very enveloping and was not fatiguing at all. This was the 1st speaker that I felt the bass performed well - mids had good punch and low end did not feel muddy. Orchestral tracks were extremely impressive - crisp, natural-sounding horns, nice, clear flute and piano - this was the first speaker I just sat back and smiled on they were so good here. Sound subtleties and vocals were not overpowered at all and were very detailed. Male and female vocals sounded very smooth. At about the 7th or 8th track, I wrote "so far, this is the one" at the bottom of the page - they just sounded that good to me. This was my 2nd favorite speaker of the day.


Seaton Catalyst

The black ash finish on this speaker was well done, but as with the JTRs, they did not have a wow factor for me. The soundstage was nice and wide with no degradation standing and slight degradation outside 30 degrees. They disappeared well (although not quite as well as the HT2s) and had a very enveloping sound. They did seem a bit forward to me - this was the other speaker that I could tell I was getting fatigued toward the end. Now, in both cases this may have been due to the SPL - they just seemed so much louder than the others. These are designed to, when shipped, go to about 50 hz but can be adjusted for lower extension and get to 20 Hz anechoic. Orchestral tracks were great - horns sounded incredible with the piano and flute sounding clean as well. The symbols in Hells Bells were very crisp as well. This was the another speaker that stood out for me in bass - most especially in the low end. Sound subtleties and vocals were incredibly detailed - I thought both male and female vocals were a treat. All in all, I think this is a great speaker - but, for my use, I had a concern about fatigue and am not sure I have need of the LFE you can get from this speaker. The guys had just set this up with Terry's subs as I was leaving so I cannot comment on how they did in that setting. This was my 4th favorite - I actually had it above the Ascends as far as performance, but at almost 3 times the price, I did not feel I was getting 3 times the speaker so I had those two almost interchangeable.


Salk Soundscape 10s

The finish on this speaker was exquisite and I personally like the unique design - I would have loved to see these in a high gloss black finish. Now, right off, I pretty much spent most of this audition near the right speaker with a small amount of time in the sweet spot so I did not hear the issue that Jonathon did. I will just say right now - if I could afford these, these would be my speakers. The soundstage was amazing - wide, no degradation, absolutely no fatigue at all. I felt the bass was the cleanest of the day by far even though they do not dig as deep as the Catalysts. Orchestral tracks were incredible - so triumpant while maintaining a mellow sound. Sound subtleties and vocals were so detailed and dynamic capability was the best of the day. The best way to describe them - they were just smooth as butter. There was not a thing I did not like - except the price. This was my favorite speaker.

Again, I want to stress - these were all really good speakers and I felt none was a bad experience. But, at the end of the day you gotta rank em so, for me, my "pecking" order was:

1. Salk Soundscape 10s
2. Salk HT2s
3a. Ascend Sierra Towers
3b. Seaton Catalyst
4a. Philharmonic IIs
4b. Salk Songtowers
5. JTR Triples (this may change after I arrange for that demo)

Let the comments begin!
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post #1385 of 1777 Old 04-18-2012, 10:18 PM
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Woohoo I am sure glad I picked the Ascends as my speakers of choice...

I'd just like to give Dave at Ascend a shout because he often dosen't get the respect or credit & fanfare he so richly deserves on some forums....

Old Indian proverb: We don't inherit the earth from our ancestors, but we borrow it from our children!

Ascend Acoustics Towers,STC(RAAL) & 200 SE in espresso54" of Panny BlissAnthem MRX 300,Sony BDP-S380, Technics CD player & Apple TV....

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post #1386 of 1777 Old 04-18-2012, 10:44 PM
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Let the comments begin!

Great write-up! Good luck with your speaker journey!

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post #1387 of 1777 Old 04-18-2012, 11:10 PM
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Thank you for another great review!

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post #1388 of 1777 Old 04-18-2012, 11:40 PM
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Great review! Thanks!

Bob
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post #1389 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 04:38 AM
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Very nice review Joe! I thought your concentration in trying to evaluate these speakers was quite evident, and I enjoyed hearing your impressions. Second review without "a dog in the fight", so no brand bias!

Heavily addicted SACDBA member, starting the twelve steps tomorrow!
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post #1390 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Under powered in a large open concept room will not produce those properties from even the best of drivers, especially sealed.

He's only running 1800w per driver - with an EP4000 each. The cabs are a bit oversized to allow for less air spring control of said driver so amp power is about right for his room/boxes, but those amps still wont push the LMSs to their limits in in this scenario. Best case maybe half the output they could get with that amp.

His room is stated to be in the 6400^3 arena but IMO its understated with the high ceilings, open to kitchen, hallways and perhaps bathroom doors open, bedrooms?!?!

For Terry's purposes they are more then adequate for his listening habits.,

Thanks for clearing that up.

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post #1391 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

I asked Nuance the same question via pm as well. He could share that here. The LMS5400 specs have also been shown to be a bit off but thats in another thread and forum.

My account is not set up for PM. That is why I asked here.

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post #1392 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 05:35 AM
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ALMFamily,

Great write-up buddy! I too noticed how concentrated you were during the auditions; a man after my own heart. Congrats on an awesome write-up!

Are you planning on going to AKFest? Perhaps we could carpool, as Terry cannot make it. I'm still trying to work out the details regarding if I can even go, but do let me know.

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post #1393 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Billy p View Post

Woohoo I am sure glad I picked the Ascends as my speakers of choice...

But is it enough to triumph over the other internet direct classic? RAAL vs array! Old vs New! Will the Newform stay new? Both are most likely less than 3 pairs each in this country. Such a rare battle of faring ronins! Stay tuned...
LL
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post #1394 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Monkish54 View Post

IMHO this was a shoot-out not a GTG. Once you score the speakers, it stops being a fun "let's listen together guys!" And starts to be "speaker A is better than speaker C."

I just wanted to correct this: it was a GTG, not a shootout. If I recall, less than half of the attendees actually used the score sheets (probably less than 1/4 of them). Everyone had different goals in mind, so not everyone wanted to "score" what they heard. For me, the best part about this was meeting everyone; everything else takes a distant second place.

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In my opinion the floor was not a bad place to be. I moved to the sweet spot on a couple rotations and it wasn't really much different. I could still definately hear left and right but was definately closer to left. I believe Terry and Brandon and PAD/BigRed and PennyNike1 will back me up that the floor was surprisingly better than one might think as they all took turns on the floor next to me for short stints.

Well, it was better than nothing, but the floor was the worst listening spot in the room. I have to disagree bro - sorry. The important thing is that you stayed in the same spot most of the time, and due to your unusual seating location you were able to hear the distortions that the amplifier was causing (which we now know was the issue) easier than anyone else. You have a great ear, Archaea, and I am so thrilled that you made the trip. I wish I could have hung around later in the evening with you guys, but I missed my three little ones. I would love to visit KC and attend your next event, that is if you'd have me.

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post #1395 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 06:48 AM
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ALMFamily,

Great write-up buddy! I too noticed how concentrated you were during the auditions; a man after my own heart. Congrats on an awesome write-up!

Are you planning on going to AKFest? Perhaps we could carpool, as Terry cannot make it. I'm still trying to work out the details regarding if I can even go, but do let me know.

I might go to AKFest . Hope to see you guys there and hopefully I'll get to listen to speakers I want.
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post #1396 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

ALMFamily,

Great write-up buddy! I too noticed how concentrated you were during the auditions; a man after my own heart. Congrats on an awesome write-up!

Are you planning on going to AKFest? Perhaps we could carpool, as Terry cannot make it. I'm still trying to work out the details regarding if I can even go, but do let me know.

I would really like to go, but I just got the schedule for my son's baseball (I am coaching) and the first practice is on the 29th so that day is out. I will hopefully find out soon what my older son's schedule is so that I know if the 28th is a possibility - will let you know as soon as I find out.

Let me know if you are going to set something up with Jeff - perhaps we can tag team that as well.
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post #1397 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 07:08 AM
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I might go to AKFest . Hope to see you guys there and hopefully I'll get to listen to speakers I want.

What do you want to hear?
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post #1398 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ALMFamily View Post

So, a little later than I had hoped, but here are my impressions from the GTG!

Let me just say - not a one of these speakers was a bad experience for me. I thought each one was impressive in specific areas and ok in others. I moved around the room to hear from different points. Apologies for not having this done sooner - been a crazy week so far.

Philharmonic IIs

Aesthetically speaking, I liked the unique look of these (as well as the Soundscapes) as I tend to get tired of seeing the same ol' rectangle box shape. As far as soundstage, I felt the it was wide with a slight degrade in quality once I got outside about 30 degrees. When I sat in the sweet spot, I closed my eyes for a while and then opened them and tried to focus on Terry's Panasonic to see how well the speakers "disappeared" for me (I did this with all speakers). I struggled to get past the feeling that I could point to which speaker was producing specific sounds - is this what some refer to as imaging? To me, it performed very well on orchestral tracks with an emphasis on horns - probably one of the best in this regard. Vocals - both male and female - sounded good to my untrained ear - the only highs I did not care for were the flute in the one track. However, this was true for every speaker but two for me. One thing I noticed with some of the other speakers I had listened to prior to this GTG was that vocals were overpowered by the instruments - this was not the case with the Phils - the vocals were very prominent. This was my 5th favorite of the day, but so close to another that I had them interchangeable.




Salk Songtowers

Aesthetically, the finish on Nuance's speakers was quite impressive. I am leaning toward a black finish as mine will be in a dedicated HT, but if I was doing a living room, I would love to get this finish. These had a nice wide soundstage with a slight degradation in the soundfield again outside of 30 degrees with no degradation when I was standing behind the sweet spot. I felt they imaged pretty well but just felt that they were overmatched for the space they were trying to fill as they just did not seem to have a lot of pop. Orchestral tracks were very triumphant with crisp horns; however, the flute sounded very distorted to me. Vocals were not overpowered at all. I felt vocal dynamics were handled incredibly well until it hit higher female notes where I felt there was some distortion - much like with the flute. This was my 6th favorite speaker of the day yet was so close to the Phils that I would make them interchangeable.

Ascend Sierra Towers

These had the high gloss black finish on them - very nice finish and more than likely the finish I will be doing in whichever speaker I choose - provided it is available of course. The soundstage was very wide with no degradtion standing and a slight degradation when I got to about 40 degrees. These disappeared completely for me and I was able to focus in on Terry's TV without issue with a nice, enveloping sound. Orchestral tracks were handled really well - I liked that I could almost "point" to where each section was - with very crisp horns. The flute came across OK - it distorted for me on the highest notes. These were the 1st speaker that I really enjoyed the symbols on the Hells Bells track. Vocals were not overpowered at all and I felt vocal dynamics were handled really well. All in all, I felt they had a very natural sound with this room size probably being right at their limit. These were my 3rd favorite speaker of the day. They were very close to the Seatons for me with a slight edge to the Ascends.



JTR Triple 12 HTs

Aesthetically, these had a nice flat black finish but the 3 same-size driver cavaties did not jump out for me. These were the first set of speakers where I did not notice a degradation in the soundstage off axis or standing up, but I also did not feel they disappeared as effectively or had an enveloping sound. The soundstage did feel forward and slightly fatiguing - this was the first of two speakers that I could tell I was getting tired toward the end of the audition. Orchestral tracks played really well - horns were crisp and the flute came across better than all but two other speakers. The Hells Bells symbol was very clean - I felt it was slightly better than the Ascends. This was the first speaker I was really impressed with how the piano sounded - I just felt I could hear the stroke of the key. I felt the same about the guitar - Rubina came across very well. Vocals were not overpowered, but there were a few instrumental notes that I did feel were (noticed this mostly during Red Rain track). Male vocal dynamics were handled well - the female vocals were where I really noticed the fatigue factor as they were just a bit overwhelming. Once all the speakers were auditioned and we set these up with Terry's subs, I felt that if I were looking for a speaker that I used for 100% HT, this speaker would perform very well. This was my 7th favorite speaker of the day. Note - Jeff's shop is very close to where I live so I am going to see if I can get there to give these a listen with his setup.



Salk HT2s

Aesthetically, I really liked the look of these - they had a very nice black finish and had a bit more shape than your standard box. The soundstage was very wide with no degradation off axis or standing and was the first speaker that did not feel forward. These also disappeared completely - I remember actually thinking this was the 1st speaker that disappeared with eyes closed and open. The sound was very enveloping and was not fatiguing at all. This was the 1st speaker that I felt the bass performed well - mids had good punch and low end did not feel muddy. Orchestral tracks were extremely impressive - crisp, natural-sounding horns, nice, clear flute and piano - this was the first speaker I just sat back and smiled on they were so good here. Sound subtleties and vocals were not overpowered at all and were very detailed. Male and female vocals sounded very smooth. At about the 7th or 8th track, I wrote "so far, this is the one" at the bottom of the page - they just sounded that good to me. This was my 2nd favorite speaker of the day.


Seaton Catalyst

The black ash finish on this speaker was well done, but as with the JTRs, they did not have a wow factor for me. The soundstage was nice and wide with no degradation standing and slight degradation outside 30 degrees. They disappeared well (although not quite as well as the HT2s) and had a very enveloping sound. They did seem a bit forward to me - this was the other speaker that I could tell I was getting fatigued toward the end. Now, in both cases this may have been due to the SPL - they just seemed so much louder than the others. These are designed to, when shipped, go to about 50 hz but can be adjusted for lower extension and get to 20 Hz anechoic. Orchestral tracks were great - horns sounded incredible with the piano and flute sounding clean as well. The symbols in Hells Bells were very crisp as well. This was the another speaker that stood out for me in bass - most especially in the low end. Sound subtleties and vocals were incredibly detailed - I thought both male and female vocals were a treat. All in all, I think this is a great speaker - but, for my use, I had a concern about fatigue and am not sure I have need of the LFE you can get from this speaker. The guys had just set this up with Terry's subs as I was leaving so I cannot comment on how they did in that setting. This was my 4th favorite - I actually had it above the Ascends as far as performance, but at almost 3 times the price, I did not feel I was getting 3 times the speaker so I had those two almost interchangeable.


Salk Soundscape 10s

The finish on this speaker was exquisite and I personally like the unique design - I would have loved to see these in a high gloss black finish. Now, right off, I pretty much spent most of this audition near the right speaker with a small amount of time in the sweet spot so I did not hear the issue that Jonathon did. I will just say right now - if I could afford these, these would be my speakers. The soundstage was amazing - wide, no degradation, absolutely no fatigue at all. I felt the bass was the cleanest of the day by far even though they do not dig as deep as the Catalysts. Orchestral tracks were incredible - so triumpant while maintaining a mellow sound. Sound subtleties and vocals were so detailed and dynamic capability was the best of the day. The best way to describe them - they were just smooth as butter. There was not a thing I did not like - except the price. This was my favorite speaker.

Again, I want to stress - these were all really good speakers and I felt none was a bad experience. But, at the end of the day you gotta rank em so, for me, my "pecking" order was:

1. Salk Soundscape 10s
2. Salk HT2s
3a. Ascend Sierra Towers
3b. Seaton Catalyst
4a. Philharmonic IIs
4b. Salk Songtowers
5. JTR Triples (this may change after I arrange for that demo)

Let the comments begin!

Well, I guess I will be bold here because these mirror my thoughts except that I would put Mark's Catalyst slightly ahead of the Ascends and I would not rate the 2's since I owned them. I loved the 10's but they should be loved at 12k.

I thought all the speakers were good actually especially for value.
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post #1399 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 07:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jsalk View Post

When you consider that the breakup heard with the SoundScapes occurred only on the left channel and that people seated to the left of center seemed to report more problems with vocals on almost all of the speakers (except the self-powered Catalysts), I think it is pretty safe to assume there was some sort of issue with the left monoblock.

Chances are quite good that most of the negative comments regarding vocal quality with almost all of the speakers was really related to issues with that amp channel. With the lower sensitivity of the SoundScapes, it actually drove that channel to extreme break-up, causing me and others to assume there was a damaged driver.

- Jim

Hi Jim,

Reading the whole thing, I'm pretty certain the amp was the main culprit as you surmised. Just had an almost identical scenario myself, so I empathize.
Any chance you'll be at LSAF?

cheers,

AJ
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post #1400 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by PAD View Post

What do you want to hear?

Salk ST's, Phil 2's (read dennis won't show up with phils), Ascend, Monitor Audio, Totem and as many as I can in my budget.

I have thread for speaker slection
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1396102
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post #1401 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 07:57 AM
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This makes me want to try that selah ribbon line array more and more! I have not made a comment about the speakers themselves but I do like the look of the Soundscapes myself, but the awesome finish would just be hidden anyways. I am so into HT I would have to make sure that they could play reference so why I was looking at the arrays since they use ribbons and higher sensitivity.
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post #1402 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Coming from knowing a guy like RMK! that replaced his REVEL SALONS and still loves what his JTR's bring to the table when properly setup I'll take what was gleaned from the performance of them at the gtg with a grain of salt... AS SHOULD OTHERS.

I don't think anyone is - or should be walking away from the GTG with a point of view that the JTR's are not good quality or good sounding speakers...

HI Warp,
Thanks for the comments and I find this all very interesting. There may be a difference in tonal quality, articulation and soundstage between the JTR's and the other speakers in the GTG. I did a bit of A/B testing in my HT when I purchased the JTR's and felt that the overall SQ as compared to the Revels was close. For me, giving up a bit of fine detail for the dramatic increase in off axis performance and dynamics made going from the Revel's to the Triple 12's a no brainer. I have said many times that if all I wanted was a single seat, 2 channel system, I would still have the Revels (augmented with a subwoofer or two). Horses for courses

I did find a couple of the GTG attendees' comments about the JTR's rude. There were a lot of comments about the attendees who's comments were being scrutinized and how that scrutiny created a fear of posting. How about the manufacturer who brings his product to the GTG and then has to read derogatory comments like ugly (ok, they are kind of ugly) , fingernails on a chalkboard and had to leave the room casually thrown around by attendees compelled to be totally honest? I'm not a PC type person and can be a bit sarcastic myself but I do think that some respect was due and comments like that lack class.

Most of the attendees seem like great people and all of the manufacturers represented are nice people who make some great audio products. Minus the specific issues detailed above and some noise, I enjoyed reading everyone's comments. Some interesting discussion and good information was the result and all in all I'd say it was a good day. I enjoy attending and hosting GTG's and will continue to do so. I encourage others to do the same.

HToM

"Well, la di fricken da."!
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post #1403 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by nanoodhaliwal View Post

Salk ST's, Phil 2's (read dennis won't show up with phils), Ascend, Monitor Audio, Totem and as many as I can in my budget.

I have thread for speaker slection
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1396102

I to would love to listen to the Totems. I watched this vid awhile ago and I was surprised how small they are and even more surprised how much power they need.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTVS0...eature=related
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post #1404 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I did find a couple of the GTG attendees' comments about the JTR's rude.

Sorry but I had to comment. So you want us to be more like Stereophile and speaker designers from each brand being docile public marketing figures? We expect ID speakers to be better not only in accuracy but also in aesthetics as the bar has been raised by Salk and Ascend's piano finish. We uphold these owner/designer brands in a higher level than the usual mass market brands due to their passion and what they bring to the table for the same amount of $. That same passion usually translates to the quest of accuracy which in return makes us old timers who got tired of the same general public tuned speakers (midbass hump etc) to trust their creations. Thus ID speaker consumers are blunt, transparent, and I think more honest in their remarks for the benefit of the designers to improve their products.

And hell, where else can you find a speaker designer teaching another established one regarding polarity in public? Would you consider that rude or constructive advancement?
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post #1405 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

HI Warp,
Thanks for the comments and I find this all very interesting. There may be a difference in tonal quality, articulation and soundstage between the JTR's and the other speakers in the GTG. I did a bit of A/B testing in my HT when I purchased the JTR's and felt that the overall SQ as compared to the Revels was close. For me, giving up a bit of fine detail for the dramatic increase in off axis performance and dynamics made going from the Revel's to the Triple 12's a no brainer. I have said many times that if all I wanted was a single seat, 2 channel system, I would still have the Revels (augmented with a subwoofer or two). Horses for courses

I did find a couple of the GTG attendees' comments about the JTR's rude. There were a lot of comments about the attendees who's comments were being scrutinized and how that scrutiny created a fear of posting. How about the manufacturer who brings his product to the GTG and then has to read derogatory comments like ugly (ok, they are kind of ugly) , fingernails on a chalkboard and had to leave the room casually thrown around by attendees compelled to be totally honest? I'm not a PC type person and can be a bit sarcastic myself but I do think that some respect was due and comments like that lack class.

Most of the attendees seem like great people and all of the manufacturers represented are nice people who make some great audio products. Minus the specific issues detailed above and some noise, I enjoyed reading everyone's comments. Some interesting discussion and good information was the result and all in all I'd say it was a good day. I enjoy attending and hosting GTG's and will continue to do so. I encourage others to do the same.

If I had gone to one of these GTG and posted my "honest" review, people would say, "Man, you don't know what you are talking about" because I would be saying, "These all sounded so damn good, I just can't decide which ones I preferred."
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post #1406 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

I to would love to listen to the Totems. I watched this vid awhile ago and I was surprised how small they are and even more surprised how much power they need.

Totem are quite nice, before I discovered Philharmonic Audio I was in the process of deciding between the Hawk and Sttaf. Both distinctly different, both IMO superior to many commercial speakers in their price range. Since (I believe) we share similar tastes I think you'll be equally impressed.

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post #1407 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by nanoodhaliwal View Post

Salk ST's, Phil 2's (read dennis won't show up with phils), Ascend, Monitor Audio, Totem and as many as I can in my budget.

I have thread for speaker slection
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1396102

Yeah heard lot of good things about them but never had chance to listen to them. Thanks for the link.
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post #1408 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Veda View Post

Sorry but I had to comment. So you want us to be more like Stereophile and speaker designers from each brand being docile public marketing figures? We expect ID speakers to be better not only in accuracy but also in aesthetics as the bar has been raised by Salk and Ascend's piano finish. We uphold these owner/designer brands in a higher level than the usual mass market brands due to their passion and what they bring to the table for the same amount of $. That same passion usually translates to the quest of accuracy which in return makes us old timers who got tired of the same general public tuned speakers (midbass hump etc) to trust their creations. Thus ID speaker consumers are blunt, transparent, and I think more honest in their remarks for the benefit of the designers to improve their products.

And hell, where else can you find a speaker designer teaching another established one regarding polarity in public? Would you consider that rude or constructive advancement?

Yes, I think we should all be very Stereophile like. Not only that, I think we should say the pledge of allegiance and sing Kumbaya at the start of every GTG.

HToM

"Well, la di fricken da."!
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post #1409 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veda View Post

Sorry but I had to comment. So you want us to be more like Stereophile and speaker designers from each brand being docile public marketing figures? We expect ID speakers to be better not only in accuracy but also in aesthetics as the bar has been raised by Salk and Ascend's piano finish. We uphold these owner/designer brands in a higher level than the usual mass market brands due to their passion and what they bring to the table for the same amount of $. That same passion usually translates to the quest of accuracy which in return makes us old timers who got tired of the same general public tuned speakers (midbass hump etc) to trust their creations. Thus ID speaker consumers are blunt, transparent, and I think more honest in their remarks for the benefit of the designers to improve their products.

And hell, where else can you find a speaker designer teaching another established one regarding polarity in public? Would you consider that rude or constructive advancement?

What happens if the polarity was reversed somewhere in the recording chain?

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #1410 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nanoodhaliwal View Post

Salk ST's, Phil 2's (read dennis won't show up with phils), Ascend, Monitor Audio, Totem and as many as I can in my budget.

I have thread for speaker slection
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1396102

I have ST's and SoundScape 8's. SS8's and probably some other Salks will be there at the show. The complete exhibitor list is listed on the site:

http://akfest.com/exhibitors.html
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