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post #1441 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

If someone honestly said anything negative about Salk speakers, he would be totally offended.

Right?

Ah, read the thread man. It's been done in this thread already (a couple times by you), and I am not offended at all.


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Originally Posted by Mrs. Nuance View Post

And with that I am done posting here. Seriously, it was nice to meet most of you at the GTG. But I am not going to sit here and deal with this. This is Nuance's hobby and he can keep you all. I am not this into audio. I enjoy what I enjoy and that is it. I hope to see some of you in the future. Best of luck to those that are seriously looking for speakers. I hope you do find what you like. Auditioning can be fun and so can GTGs just remember to keep your opinions to yourself.

Oh boy... Well, nice job guys: you single handedly pushed away one of the only woman who has posted here on AVS. Bravo.

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post #1442 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

^ The forum is public, so naturally the manufacturers will see the comments if they are looking for them, but no one directly told them their speakers are "ugly" or bad. I don't think there's anyone here that doesn't respect the guys that brought/sent speakers to the event.

You are right...I get that.

But these guys were at the event.

The flip side is by bringing their speakers, they open themselves up for it.

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post #1443 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 10:51 AM
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Women's hearing tends to retain its sensitivity because they're not exposed to the same noise pollution as men are. That though is changing as more wear ear buds.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #1444 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by AJinFLA View Post

Don't be silly Chu. That would be obvious, the music would play backwards.

With subliminal messages?
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post #1445 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 10:54 AM
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I like to be politically correct whenever I post because, well, it makes me feel cheap, empty, and unfulfilled. And after all, if I can't have that, then I'd have to settle for my dignity. And we wouldn't want that.
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post #1446 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Women's hearing tends to retain its sensitivity because they're not exposed to the same noise pollution as men are. That though is changing as more wear ear buds.

OK, I will get into trouble for this, BUT, maybe it is that we are hearing them scream in our ears and they don't

Seriously though, Men tend to work in louder environments than women.
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post #1447 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

OK, I will get into trouble for this, BUT, maybe it is that we are hearing them scream in our ears and they don't

Seriously though, Men tend to work in louder environments than women.

Exactly...on the latter one that is!

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post #1448 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Women's hearing tends to retain its sensitivity because they're not exposed to the same noise pollution as men are. That though is changing as more wear ear buds.

I absolutely refuse to listen to anything over 90dBA peak. I will immediately cover my ears even in public anywhere. I never wear ear buds. Always hated those.

So I think I have better hearing than most women. I also think I drive 100% safer than most women.
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post #1449 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I think I have better hearing than most women. I also think I drive 100% safer than most women.

Yes, but a 6 year old has better listening skills than you!?
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post #1450 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I also think I drive 100% safer than most women.

That's just racist. We have a one way street on the back side of our office building in Downtown Toronto. Eighty percent of the people driving down that street the wrong way are older women. The rest are just non-old women...

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #1451 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Eternal Velocity View Post

Yes, but a 6 year old has better listening skills than you!?

It's kind of sad for sure.

I'm depressed. There is something horribly wrong with my hearing, my room is a fiasco, and 6 yr old girls have better listening skills than I do.

And with that, I will leave this forum. So long.....farewell.......think of me.......
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post #1452 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

That's just racist. We have a one way street on the back side of our office building in Downtown Toronto. Eighty percent of the people driving down that street the wrong way are older women. The rest are just non-old women...

Hey, I will not tell a lie!

Don't want to lie.

My blood pressure increases two folds when my wife, mother-in-law, my mother, or my sister drives with me in the car.

Calling it how I see it.

Sorry if I'm being bit brutal here.
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post #1453 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 11:20 AM
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I really don't think you can directly even start to effectively compare and contrast the difference between "full range" designed for 2 channel speakers and those made for home theater.

Most serious home theater enthusiasts don't want the nice glossy finish because they have projectors. Thats why I laughed when reading the comment that the Seaton cabinets were ugly! Mark does some of the nicest cabinets out there in ID for HT application. In a dark room you dont want reflections off of your equipment.

The movies now incorporate material down to the single digits while music is predominately octaves higher at the lowest levels.

I think it is cool you had some home theater offerings there but it is obvious from the comments 2 channel enthusiasts must be vastly different in what they need from a reproduction of sound than I had thought.

And to say you could identify speakers in a blind test accurately is hogwash...until I see such an experiment I'll assume the results would be similar to the KC GTG Archaea hosted.
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post #1454 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 11:21 AM
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Funny how even the comments of the attendees get criticized to the smallest details. I would say this though... Integrity is a luxury in real life. How many can afford to say the truth whenever they want. This is an escape. Just let them be... And everyone's biased. Of course my speakers are better than yours!

Now I'll go back criticizing my new Sierra Tower piano blacks that just arrived today
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post #1455 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Oh boy... Well, nice job guys: you single handedly pushed away one of the only woman who has posted here on AVS. Bravo.


I don't think she is leaving because of any goofy comment by cschang - but because this place is nothing but a freakin bicker festival... I haven't posted on here or been involved with AVS for quite some time because of that... Its seriously such a childish place at times and most of the time I just like to wash my hands of it....

Way too many sensitive people, and drama all the time... in the words of Sam Axe . You know audiophiles. Bunch of bitchy little girls.

I'm going back to my gun forums where MEN are MEN!!
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post #1456 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

And to say you could identify speakers in a blind test accurately is hogwash...until I see such an experiment I'll assume the results would be similar to the KC GTG Archaea hosted.

I hear you, man.

But you and I may be in the minority here.

What does this mean for us?

That 6 yr old girls have better listening skills than you and I do.

Yeah. Afraid so........

That's exactly what this means!

It's okay, you can cry now.
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post #1457 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ALMFamily View Post

I would really like to go, but I just got the schedule for my son's baseball (I am coaching) and the first practice is on the 29th so that day is out. I will hopefully find out soon what my older son's schedule is so that I know if the 28th is a possibility - will let you know as soon as I find out.

Let me know if you are going to set something up with Jeff - perhaps we can tag team that as well.

Nuance,

I won't be able to swing AKFest - his baseball starts the 28th. That said, let's still try to set up a date to visit Jeff - send me a PM if you want to try to coordinate a date/time.
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post #1458 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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On a unrelated note, I posted links to the reviews from the GTG attendees in the first post of this (wonderful?) thread.

If I missed any, I aplogize. Just let me know and I will add them. My work here is done
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post #1459 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

I don't think she is leaving because of any goofy comment by cschang - but because this place is nothing but a freakin bicker festival... I haven't posted on here or been involved with AVS for quite some time because of that... Its seriously such a childish place at times and most of the time I just like to wash my hands of it....

Way too many sensitive people, and drama all the time...

I'm going back to my gun forums where MEN are MEN!!

Haha - well put, Patrick; she's smart and isn't going to waste her time with...well, you know which folks it is. Hopefully a small handful of individuals didn't ruin the entire thread for the rest, with their "you didn't hear what I hear so you're wrong" attitudes. There's always a few who like to ruin it for everyone. You know who you are, and we'd love it if you didn't post unless it relates to the topic at hand. In fact, if you are just going to whine then don't bother posting. Hopefully we'll hear from more folks that actually attended the event, but it is unlikely due to the behavior of a few, who didn't even attend the GTG might I add. If said behavior continues I hope the mods shut down this thread.

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Originally Posted by ALMFamily View Post

Nuance,

I won't be able to swing AKFest - his baseball starts the 28th. That said, let's still try to set up a date to visit Jeff - send me a PM if you want to try to coordinate a date/time.

Sounds good - talk to you soon.

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Originally Posted by merrymaid520 View Post

On a unrelated note, I posted links to the reviews from the GTG attendees in the first post of this (wonderful?) thread.

If I missed any, I aplogize. Just let me know and I will add them. My work here is done

Thank you, Brandon. It's pathetic you had to use the words, "unrelated note," due to certain folks taking this thread off topic so often...


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post #1460 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

And to say you could identify speakers in a blind test accurately is hogwash...until I see such an experiment I'll assume the results would be similar to the KC GTG Archaea hosted.

I got to agree with this...

I think it would be very interesting indeed if you ran all of these speakers auditions truly blind and the speakers were demoed within their limits and a 80hz HPF was employed to level the playing field. I have a sinking suspicion I'd not be able to tell much difference if the speakers were all played within their means (at least with any degree of confidence).

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post #1461 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 12:51 PM
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I hope that you aren't letting a few people ruin things here for you Mrs. Nuance. I only spent a few minutes talking with you, and I was pleasantly suprised to hear how you expressed your views. As you know, I liked the JTR's and Seaton's. I realize that you did not favor them, and you have a right to express an opinion. You are a person who has a viewpoint and I respect that. Please don't let people who didn't even attend the event push you away

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And with that I am done posting here. Seriously, it was nice to meet most of you at the GTG. But I am not going to sit here and deal with this. This is Nuance's hobby and he can keep you all. I am not this into audio. I enjoy what I enjoy and that is it. I hope to see some of you in the future. Best of luck to those that are seriously looking for speakers. I hope you do find what you like. Auditioning can be fun and so can GTGs just remember to keep your opinions to yourself.

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post #1462 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post


I got to agree with this...

I think it would be very interesting indeed if you ran all of these speakers auditions truly blind and the speakers were demoed within their limits and a 80hz HPF was employed to level the playing field. I have a sinking suspicion I'd not be able to tell much difference if the speakers were all played within their means (at least with any degree of confidence).

Archaea - sounds like a project for you to tackle in kc. If you do, count me in.
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post #1463 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 12:55 PM
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I agree to a certain extent Jonathan. This is why, in partial jest, I encouraged Brandon to attend the Open House for JTR this weekend. However, I do believe I would be able to pick out the JTR's and Seatons during the climax in the Dream On song. IMO, I think the available dynamic headroom that these 2 offered was showing during that part of the song. Of course, until I tried the blind test, I can't state for positive. It is hard to eliminate all elements of bias, and to a certain extent, I was hoping/expecting to hear great things when the JTR's and Seatons were playing.

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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I got to agree with this...

I think it would be very interesting indeed if you ran all of these speakers auditions truly blind and the speakers were demoed within their limits and a 80hz HPF was employed to level the playing field. I have a sinking suspicion I'd not be able to tell much difference if the speakers were all played within their means (at least with any degree of confidence).

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post #1464 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 01:05 PM
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Ok everyone, lighten up. Enough with the back and forth insults or you will be removed.

Try to be civil to one another or I'll have to step in.

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post #1465 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 01:41 PM
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Archaea - sounds like a project for you to tackle in kc. If you do, count me in.

a couple of us are toying with the idea right now in fact ---- but there is some resistance to getting burnt in the firestorm...

That said - nobody I know down here has the caliber of equipment at least in the mains department except for Randy and a guy named counsil, and I think they both prefer to remain upwind of drama...so anything we'd blind shootout - wouldn't be of the same caliber of what was tested at this Wisconsin meet.

Randy and I were considering renting a park shelter and just playing some tunes outside and grilling brats and hamburgers for a g2g. Not sure that it'd be so much a blind shootout as just a g2g -- but I am also, at least personally, very interested in a true blind shootout. I find the results very interesting --- sometimes things we think we know...aren't.

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post #1466 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

I really don't think you can directly even start to effectively compare and contrast the difference between "full range" designed for 2 channel speakers and those made for home theater.

Most serious home theater enthusiasts don't want the nice glossy finish because they have projectors. Thats why I laughed when reading the comment that the Seaton cabinets were ugly! Mark does some of the nicest cabinets out there in ID for HT application. In a dark room you dont want reflections off of your equipment.

The movies now incorporate material down to the single digits while music is predominately octaves higher at the lowest levels.

I think it is cool you had some home theater offerings there but it is obvious from the comments 2 channel enthusiasts must be vastly different in what they need from a reproduction of sound than I had thought.

And to say you could identify speakers in a blind test accurately is hogwash...until I see such an experiment I'll assume the results would be similar to the KC GTG Archaea hosted.

We should have a blind test Edit - [Blindfolds]. Subwoofers are completely different and Auddyssey was used in a very wide listening spot. Plus we didn't have the sub with super high inductance like at the Omaha. I was able to A/B the SongTower dome and HT2. I didn't even know which speakers were playing until after. We finished with the same song and started with the same song. The first immediate difference I noticed was the ssssssssssssss on Edit- [some] vocals for speaker B. Everything from speaker B was easier to localize. It was if I could tell there was a tweeter and midrange. Plus there was added warmth. Speaker A was so clean and disappeared that it made Speaker B seem like it was kind of distorted from top to bottom. The prominent midrange was still there though. Edit - [Speaker A - HT2, Speaker B - SongTower dome] Speaker B is still very good.

I have limited experience with compression drivers but the last four I heard all kind of had a metallic ccssshh sound. Some were more recessed than others but I never got that sense of transparency. To those that attended, did you notice a difference between the ribbons and compression drivers in the way these presented the sound?

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post #1467 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Way too many sensitive people, and drama all the time... in the words of Sam Axe . You know audiophiles. Bunch of bitchy little girls.

I'm going back to my gun forums where MEN are MEN!!

Great reference! Who doesn't love Sam Axe! One of my favorite shows. Thanks for the laugh, this discussion could afford some levity.

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post #1468 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by kwarny View Post

We should have a blind test. Subwoofers are completely different and Auddyssey was used in a very wide listening spot. Plus we didn't have the sub with super high inductance like at the Omaha. I was able to A/B the SongTower dome and HT2. I didn't even know which speakers were playing until after. We finished with the same song and started with the same song. The first immediate difference I noticed was the ssssssssssssss on vocals for speaker B. Everything from speaker B was easier to localize. It was if I could tell there was a tweeter and midrange. Plus there was added warmth. Speaker A was so clean and disappeared that it made Speaker B seem like it was kind of distorted from top to bottom. The prominent midrange was still there though.

I

So which was A and which was B?
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post #1469 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 01:49 PM
 
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I wholeheartedly apologize to anyone I've upset regarding my comments.

I have a question for Mark Seaton. Do you allow customers to adjust the DSP or is it set and the user/owner has no access to it's parms? I can understand not wanting them to mess with the xover but what about EQing?

I'm also curious if it's a Digmoda or a DSP4YOU unit or perhaps somebody else.

I would also like to take this time to apologize to Mark and the JTR guys for calling your speakers glorified PAs and comparing your speakers to a Hemi whilst calling others Lotus Exige.

I'd also like to apologize to Dennis if any of you comments upset him as well. I was just trying to look for reasons for what the GTG attendees observed and I thought the Neo8 could have been damaged with solder iron as many in DIY have experienced this. Also bending the tabs to prevent shorts comment was made to try to help! I'm also sorry for my cynicism regarding the Neo8 640Hz xover point though I still wonder...

I also have to point out that the JTR guys were sure graceful regarding their speaker audition as clearly they were at the biggest disadvantage with the amp used.

Down the road to have a fair playing ground the organizers should make sure they have amps capable of driving all the speakers! I can only suggest ATI amplifiers as I feel they are about the best available "for the money" that have enough "balls" for something like the SoundScapes or JTRs. Emotiva is a great second tier choice as an XPA-2 would have had no issues driving any of those speakers.
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post #1470 of 1777 Old 04-19-2012, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwarny View Post

To those that attended, did you notice a difference between the ribbons and compression drivers in the way these presented the sound?

Yes sir. There was a distinct difference in the sibilance, especially on cymbols. The first track we used was Boxenkiller which starts with just cymbals and a kick drum, and the differences were immediately noticable. The highs had more bark or bite (whatever you want to call it) with coaxial designs. The ribbons were smooth but with no detail loss and had more weight to the sound, making them more believable to my ears. This is completely subjective and only my opinion, of course. I still stand by my statement that I'd be able to pick out the differences blind. Personally I think using the "should have been a blind test" statement is just an excuse. Speaking of blind tests, EQing subs is fine, but applying EQ above the Schroeder frequency is generally frowned upon and can introduce it's own issues, albeit perhaps fixing others. It would be better to perform such a test outdoors, perhaps in a near-field manner. That would completely reduce room effects without the negatives of EQing above the Schroeder frequency. EQ can change speaker characteristics (the good ones), and it can also help cover flaws, but why would anyone listen that way? Also, if we could simply EQ out every flaw and achieve the same sound then no one would buy anything but the cheapest speaker, EQ it and be done. This doesn't follow how the consumers make purchases, though, and there are still hundreds of speaker companies, so...

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