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post #1681 of 1777 Old 04-30-2012, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Terry is right folks: I've been going over comments and what I heard and I think the "distortion" was a completely different sound than what Archaea described he heard with every speaker but the JTR's, with the former only being heard through the SoundScapes. The amp with the bad transistor likely couldn't handle the SoundScapes low sensitivity drivers, thus it actually did distort or even clip at that time. There was no issue with the right SoundScape, only the left, so that would explain that issue.

The other speakers didn't distort to my ears, though some of them struggled at louder volumes when being run rull range in that large of a room. There's only so much a speaker with smaller drivers can do (like Terry said, we may have been around 100dB or more at the speaker itself). With that said, I heard no distortion from any of them besides the SoundScapes, but rather what I would call driver or power compression, albeit minor. Due to our listening levels it could have also been a soft clip from the amp. However, I suspect Archaea heard what he heard because of where he was seated, which was on the floor, much closer to the left speaker and too close to all of those left speakers. His analogy of hearing two different MP3 bitrates points to a bad listening location; distortion is a much different animal, which usually sounds like buzzing, fuzziness or a whooshing noise that removes clarity and muddies everything up. Since no one else heard that with every speaker except the JTR's (as Archaea says he heard), it was likely his seating location. With that said, at those listening levels the transients could have hit north over 250 watts, and that would have caused soft clipping of the amplifier, which in turn would have been reproduced by the speakers.

Terry, the left monoblock may have had an issue with the SoundScape speaker, but it may not have for the rest...or maybe it did, who knows? I'd contact Klaus and have him look at it to confirm. I suspect the "distortion" heard wasn't distortion but just a bad listening position. The GTG was not a failure, and I really enjoyed it. Everyone will have their own opinions and may have heard things differently than you, me or Archaea. Chalk it up to different biases, preferences and levels of experience, but don't completely blame the amp for all of the "faults" that people found with various speakers. The latter is simply based on subjectivity and opinions, nothing more.

P.S. I shouldn't have to say this (again), but you were a great host; don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Wish I could have been there. Sounds like a great experience!
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post #1682 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 06:58 AM
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It's weird that there so many issues with the components. Durability problem?
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post #1683 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 07:34 AM
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Well last night was a success, and no issues...

I want to thank Rick for making the Journey and bringing his Line Array Speakers to the gtg... They were impressive to me to say the least...

Here are a few pics I took, maybe someone got some better shots and would like to post them up... My Nikon D7000 is out of commission so all I got is cell phone pics to get you some perspective of the layout and setup.






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post #1684 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 09:20 AM
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Thanks to Warpdrv for hosting and for allowing me to join the GTG at the last minute. I will post impressions later today, but in the meantime, here a few photos that I snapped of the arrays:



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post #1685 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 09:31 AM
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Thanks, fellas. Good times were had by all last night.

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post #1686 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 11:04 AM
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A few of the pics I took:








This shot was from the stairs where the sound was still amazing:



A close-up of the Soundscape M-7:



And this would not be complete without one of those amazing subs:

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post #1687 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 11:49 AM
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Great quality photos ALMFamily and so glad that you posted a picture of that subwoofer. At 3 feet tall, I originally thought that the subwoofers were merely ornamental boxes/stands. Much to my surprise, there were huge dual opposed subwoofers in three corners of the room!
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post #1688 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post

Great quality photos ALMFamily and so glad that you posted a picture of that subwoofer.

There is really no good way to get a good photo of them with the drivers on opposite sides...


Quote:
At 3 feet tall, I originally thought that the subwoofers were merely ornamental boxes/stands. Much to my surprise, there were three huge dual opposed subwoofers in three corners of the room!


They may be large for most people and rooms, but they seem to fit just right in my room... and the def perform...
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post #1689 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

They may be large for most people and rooms, but they seem to fit just right in my room... and the def perform...

Yes, Warp's subs are very big. I just always thought he was trying to make up for something...you know...smaller...

Did you get to demo the subs last night at all? For the record, my daughter (12 years old) was very disappointed that I didn't go to the GTG last night, and that I didn't take her with me. She is dying to hear the subs, so we'll have to find some time for her this summer.
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post #1690 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 12:36 PM
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Those are some cool looking speakers. Looking forward to all of your impressions.
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post #1691 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 12:38 PM
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HAHAHAH They got the OPEN RANGE - Gun Fight scene demo - Blew their faces off LOL, amongst other things like War of the Worlds, Master & Commander...

Sorry you couldn't make it Terry - we were in rare form last night, Aaron and his Antics along with my buddy Pietro.... there was some booze, and alot of laughs. Not the normal toned down nature of a gtg I'm sure most people are used to....

I hope we weren't too offensive... Its never good when the 3 of us get together, were pretty much a bulldozer of the masses when we go out...

After Rick continued along his journey, we did multiple sessions of varying material on both systems of which the guys will hopefully post their writeups of how they felt about them... gotta give them some time to gather their thoughts... They had alot to think about after leaving here.... hehhehehe
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post #1692 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 01:24 PM
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nice warp.

just in case some folks don't know or if it hasn't been posted yet.
http://www.xlrtechs.com/dbkeele.com/CBT.php

did you happen to measure, roughly, what the 1w1m sensitivity of the speaks was?

props to the manufacturer, craig?, as they have a resonably nice waf while being a performer.

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post #1693 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 01:34 PM
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We did not measure, to post graphs anyways...

Rick Craig - owner of Selah Audio brought the speakers and measured them to set the DEQX xovers up but that was it...

I'd imagine he could provide measurements if asked upon....

They were very interesting speakers in both looks and SQ... moving around the room, there performance was quite consistent.... The speakers were setup up aiming directly at the stairs going up - so I spent alot of time 10ft up the stairs and the sound was extremely uniform... Cool....

Off Axis was also quite nice...

I would really like to hear that array with the multiple RAAL tweeters, but its a bit out of my price range...
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post #1694 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 01:49 PM
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Nice looking speakers! Bet they sounded awesome!!

I missed it somewhere, but what sub is that?
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post #1695 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 01:54 PM
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The three DIY's subs are warpdrv's XLERATORS. They utilize 18" dual opposed LMS drivers. Here is a link to warpdrv's build thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1266665
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post #1696 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 01:56 PM
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Very cool stuff! I have heard DEQX work magic on a pair of inexpensive B&W bookshelves before.

Did you guys find out what drivers are used in Rick's CBT?

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post #1697 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Very cool stuff! I have heard DEQX work magic on a pair of inexpensive B&W bookshelves before.

Did you guys find out what drivers are used in Rick's CBT?


I asked him, and got a very vague answer - I'm not certain why but he didn't reveal that information... Aluminum cone mids and soft dome tweeters is all I got...
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post #1698 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 03:13 PM
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Well, I wanted to briefly comment on the speakers at the GTG. I arrived a bit late to the GTG due to travel distance, but did get to talk to Rick about his line array speakers. I thought the speakers sounded best in the sweat spot (center of the couch) and a bit interestingly, in the middle of the stair case 20+ feet across from the speakers. That was a cool thing to hear.

Later in the night we got to hear warpdrv's set-up in a bedroom. He had Soundscape 7's and a DIY subwoofer in the bedroom. Yes, in a bedroom. They sounded terrific during the music demos that I heard, although, I never did get to hear "Boom Boom Pow" with the Soundcape 7's as I had requested

At the end of the evening, we ended up back in the large living room so Patrick could put on a show with his Paradigm's and his beautiful DIY subwoofers. I got to see his equipment in the basement beforehand, and he was utilizing 2 - 4000 watt amplifiers to power each of his 3 subwoofers. Yes, that is double the wattage utilized in an Orbit Shifter! And I thought my home theater dreams were ambitious

After some nudging, I was able to convince Patrick to put on the Boom Boom Pow song. He had the a huge 18" dual opposed subwoofer in 3 corners, which formed a sort of triangle to the listening position. Standing in the middle of the triangle, the bass was impressive during the B.E.P. song. It was very clean bass, which not every subwoofer can provide.

As I am a movie buff and lover of high-end home theater material, the highlight of the day for me was listening to 2 movie clips:

1) Open Range;
2) Master & Commander.

I had the pleasure of hearing each of these 2 movies at reference level during the JTR Open House not so long-ago. As I have told others, I was quite impressed with how well Jeff's system performed during these 2 movies in particular! That being said, I was literally amazed the first time that I heard that first gun shot in Open Range in Patrick's system. The scene was extremely dynamic with his speaker and sub combination. Not necessarily louder than the JTR demo mind you, but the sound produced with the gun shots in Patrick's system is something everyone should hear for themselves! This is just an excellent movie to showcase a home theater. I went out and purchased the DVD today for the future.

Regarding Master & Commander, I don't think I have ever heard a system put out more output (from the perspective of sheer volume) than I heard at the JTR Open House with dual Orbit Shifters. That being said, the initial cannonball scene on Patrick's set-up offered a very dynamic and enjoyable listening experience. His large living room, with vaulted ceiling, made the room come alive, and I think the triangulation of his sub-woofers was complimenting the experience marvelously. The cannonball managed to impress without getting to ear-splitting volume.

In the end, I am extremely pleased that I made the journey to attend the GTG! It had been less than 10 days since I was the JTR Open House and I was going through home theater withdrawal!!
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post #1699 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for hosting last night Patrick! Erin and I had a few good laughs. Tell your partner(Aaron) I say hello
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post #1700 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post

In the end, I am extremely pleased that I made the journey to attend the GTG! It had been less than 10 days since I was the JTR Open House and I was going through home theater withdrawal!!

Thanks for the comments Sir... it was a fun evening, with some great laughs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by merrymaid520 View Post

Thanks for hosting last night Patrick! Erin and I had a few good laughs. Tell your partner(Aaron) I say hello


Glad you guys could make it... Aaron is a hoot... you never know what is going to come out of his mouth.... Aaron answered the door before I could get there when one attendee arrived and told him "welcome to our home, Patrick is my partner" of which I walked up not hearing what he said at all and welcomed the new guest... and wasn't made aware of the comment til later LOL... guy was like - ahhhh ok ---- HAHAHHA

So that was the running joke for the evening...

I knew I should have had one of my women show up for this....
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post #1701 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by merrymaid520 View Post

Thanks for hosting last night Patrick! Erin and I had a few good laughs. Tell your partner(Aaron) I say hello

LOL - hilarious!

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post #1702 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 04:49 PM
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PennyNike had it right.....

2 amps per box - although those amps and subs under normal conditions are barely loafing about.... its only times like last night that they actually see that kind of abuse.
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post #1703 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

PennyNike had it right.....

2 amps per box - although those amps and subs under normal conditions are barely loafing about.... its only times like last night that they actually see that kind of abuse.

I guess using CFL's seems kind of pointless, eh?

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post #1704 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

There is really no good way to get a good photo of them with the drivers on opposite sides...





They may be large for most people and rooms, but they seem to fit just right in my room... and the def perform...

It's all about having the right (and enough) room for them and they look great in your room. No need to hide those subs.

HToM

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post #1705 of 1777 Old 05-01-2012, 08:50 PM
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A really fun night - after attending the SE WI GTG a couple weeks ago and this one last night, I must say that there are some really great people who love this hobby. That is what has really stood out for me the most. Thanks again to Warpdrv for opening up his beautiful home - everyone should have a chance to hear his living room system. :yikes:

There were a couple different speakers I had a chance to listen to at the GTG so I am going to break them apart into separate posts so I am not up too late.

The first: The new offering from Rick Craig at Selah Audio (have not been named as of yet)

First off, I really liked the unique look of these speakers - definitely not your standard box! The finish on them was very well done as well - Rick stated that he has a local cabinetmaker that does the finishing. I did not play any of my standard audition tracks, but what struck my right off about these was the dispersion. I have not heard any line arrays before so I don't have a real good point of reference, but the size of the soundfield was astounding. The last picture I took was actually near the top of Warpdrv's staircase and there was no noticeable degradation in the soundfield. It was fairly wide as well - I was about 45 degrees off axis before I could detect just a slight decline in the sound. As far as their ability to disappear, I was having problems trying to focus on a point in space (as I would for a TV/screen) as I kept noticing all the drivers - that would take some getting used to IMO. That said, they imaged very well once I closed my eyes and were very detailed - both male and female vocals were clear with no distortion. The mids were very crisp as well and I felt rolled off well. I am not sure how loud we got, but I can say that I had to raise my voice to talk to the person sitting next to me at one point so I am certain they could handle more.

All in all - a really great speaker. Not quite as captivating as the Soundscapes for me personally, so in that price range I would go with the Salks, but kudos to Rick for building a great sounding speaker with a large soundfield.
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post #1706 of 1777 Old 05-02-2012, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

PennyNike had it right.....

2 amps per box - although those amps and subs under normal conditions are barely loafing about.... its only times like last night that they actually see that kind of abuse.

That's actually what I said too (one amp per driver), but I misread his post. That's the second screw-up on my part from last night because I was surfing on my phone instead of a real PC. Whoops.

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post #1707 of 1777 Old 05-02-2012, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMFamily View Post

Thanks again to Warpdrv for opening up his beautiful home - everyone should have a chance to hear his living room system. :yikes: The first: The new offering from Rick Craig at Selah Audio (have not been named as of yet)

All in all - a really great speaker. Not quite as captivating as the Soundscapes for me personally, so in that price range I would go with the Salks, but kudos to Rick for building a great sounding speaker with a large soundfield.


Glad you could make the journey - all the way from Madison... thats a haul.

FWIW.... Selah Audio also has speakers that utilize the same drivers as the SoundScapes for anyone that is interested in his products. Rick seemed to be very knowledgeable about all things audio through discussions and has many different offerings on his site... Not just line arrays
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post #1708 of 1777 Old 05-02-2012, 07:09 AM
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Always nice to see those monster subs. Sounds like you guys had a fun evening out of it. Warp, can you see your electric meter speed up, when playing those subs at reference?

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post #1709 of 1777 Old 05-02-2012, 07:38 AM
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Next up from the Warpdrv GTG - the Xcelerators:



After we listened to the Soundscape 7s with the Funkywaves sub (more to come on that in a later post), I asked Warpdrv if he would not mind firing up his living room system. Now, he does have the Sig 8s in there which if I were listening to them alone, I would have been impressed as they were not as forward to me as the Studio 100s were, but TBH I think we were all really focused in on the subs. :innocent:

First off, the pictures do not do justice to them - at @3' tall they are truly imposing and the finish on them is very well done. If I did not know better, I would have thought it was some kind of tall end table. As far as the sound, I can honestly say I never thought that you could get a sub to get that loud, yet remain so clean - much less 3! He fired up a couple tracks and then put on a Metallic concert (Live from France IIRC). We were getting the kind of clean bass I would expect from a high end mid - I have to wonder if my jaw was dropped the whole time.

Warpdrv's living room is pretty open, but with those three going, it felt like he actually had buttkickers in the couch - I could feel it in my bones! :bigsmile: And, the real kicker - they never moved at all. He has a lamp on top of one and a vase on the other. You could see a picture moving on the wall, lights moving in the other room, but the lamp and vase never moved an iota - and we were really giving them a good workout. I wish I could have stayed a bit longer as they fired up Open Range and Master and Commander, but it was 10pm and I had to drive 1.5 hours home.

I have thought about doing a DIY sub project once the HT is a bit more in order, and I think I may have just got a good idea of what I would like to do....... I wonder if I could get the same effect using 2 of those LMS subs in a sonotube. :scratch:
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post #1710 of 1777 Old 05-02-2012, 08:11 AM
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The last speaker I had a chance to hear - the Soundscape 7s:



Aesthetically, I really liked the finish on this speaker. It also had a bit more depth to it than what I would consider your standard box to have which was nice for a monitor. Interestingly enough, as soon as we started to listen to them, I felt that I could hear the similarity between these and the Soundscape 10s. So, obviously, I loved these.

Being monitors, they did not have the low end extension that the 10s did, but Warpdrv has a Funkywaves sub in his bedroom set-up (so lucky - my wife would disown me if I did that!) that handled the low end quite beautifully. They imaged incredibly well - they disappeared completely when I did my "eyes closed / focus on tv" test. Vocals - both male and female - were very detailed and dynamics were so clean.

I am set on doing towers for my HT as that appeals to me aesthetically. That said, if I ever get to the point where I would be setting up a 2.1 system specifically for music, these would be at the top of my list - for me personally, the Soundscape "sound" is incredibly engaging (turn of phrase borrowed from Nuance ) and at this point the type of sound I am looking for in my final choice - or as close to it as I can come within my budget.

So, that ends my thoughts on what we heard. Patrick - you have not one but two set-ups that I for one am quite envious of - let me know then next time you do movie night!
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