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post #181 of 1777 Old 04-23-2011, 09:48 PM
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We'll have to agree to disagree then. Of course it's not THE BEST, but if you 5 or 6 guys claim it's absolute 'rubbish', then it's an older model or in need of a firmware update. There's many positive reviews out there, even from die hard 'audiogon' audiophiles, who were impressed with the analog, so rubbish it's not, my friend.

I'm using Halo gear w/ Helicon 800s, and ripped flac sounds so good I'm getting rid of my cd player once and for all.

Anyway, on to your speaker reviews.....
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post #182 of 1777 Old 04-23-2011, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jewel5 View Post

We'll have to agree to disagree then. Of course it's not THE BEST, but if you 5 or 6 guys claim it's absolute 'rubbish', then it's an older model or in need of a firmware update. There's many positive reviews out there, even from die hard 'audiogon' audiophiles, who were impressed with the analog, so rubbish it's not, my friend.

I'm using Halo gear w/ Helicon 800s, and ripped flac sounds so good I'm getting rid of my cd player once and for all.

Anyway, on to your speaker reviews.....

It's not an older model and it doesn't need a firmware update. The analog outputs flat out sound dull and lifeless compared to the digital outputs. Just because you don't agree doesn't automatically mean the unit is "an older model or in need of a firmware update." We all heard the problems. Whether you agree or not is for you to decide, but please don't insult our intelligence; it's just plain rude. If you're happy with the analog outputs of the Touch - great! We're not, and we're here to help inform those who are interested, so we're not going to lie or pull punches.

Let's move on.


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post #183 of 1777 Old 04-23-2011, 10:59 PM
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I posted in the recent past that I did an A/B comparison between the touch analog outs and the digital out to my DACMagic and the difference was not insubstantial. I wouldn't say the analog outs are garbage but using the digital out to the DACMagic was a really big improvementl.
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post #184 of 1777 Old 04-23-2011, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Brandon,

I'm glad to hear you guys got to the bottom of the SQ issues when you had the last GTG at Brandon's house. This might be a big help in an overall improvement in SQ of Brandon's system by going with an external DAC. I'm sure its a big relief as it was not an issue with the Towers after all. It will be a big relief for Dave as well as I'm sure he was wondering what was causing the odd SQ issues you guys were hearing with the Towers. Sometimes the most obvious causes for things like this get easily overlooked. Nice detective work guys!

Bill

Thanks for the kind words. It was actually Terry who came up with the idea, as he recalled not being fond of the SQ of his Touch. This unit exhibited the same problems, and we (four of us, as two guys had left already) put in quite a bit of time listening and comparing, swapping and listening more...rinse, repeat, etc. We even swapped digital and analog cables out, ensuring it wasn't a bad pair or something like that. Making this discovering actually made me happy, because now Merrymaid can get an external DAC and lose that terribly dull, lifeless sound. His Ascend Towers and SB Touch sounded great with the external DAC, as if it was a completely different system. I just hope it was more the SB Touch that was the source of the issue than it was his listening room. A room is harder to fix when compared to simply adding a DAC, in my opinion.

Time for bed...more in depth reviews to come tomorrow or Monday.


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post #185 of 1777 Old 04-23-2011, 11:17 PM
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No need to get so defensive, Nuance, I just mentioned it b/c some users claimed a big improvement in their analog sound after an update. Not everyone in the world has to agree with you guys either.
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post #186 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jewel5 View Post

We'll have to agree to disagree then. Of course it's not THE BEST, but if you 5 or 6 guys claim it's absolute 'rubbish', then it's an older model or in need of a firmware update. There's many positive reviews out there, even from die hard 'audiogon' audiophiles, who were impressed with the analog, so rubbish it's not, my friend.

I'm using Halo gear w/ Helicon 800s, and ripped flac sounds so good I'm getting rid of my cd player once and for all.

Anyway, on to your speaker reviews.....

I guess "rubbish" means different things to different people.

I have seen all the reviews and positive comments on the Touch. I guess you only know what sounds good until you hear something better. I've been there too. There were times I thought the sound I had was very good, but inevitably, I heard something better. I hope you do too one day, as there is nothing great about the sound of the analog outs on a Touch.

I'm wondering why we should give any speaker reviews. Maybe they too are in need of firmware upgrades and whatnot. I wouldn't want to put you in defensive mode again...
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post #187 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Morning boys!
Thanks again to Terry and his wife for hosting a great day for us. Nuance hit it right on, we all had a great time and enjoyed all the gear in attendance. I do not have time to comment on specifics other than the most surprising thing to me. I was always on the side of the fence in which I believed DAc's made little to no difference. Yesterday by comparing the Ones in the Touch to the separate DAC, we all heard the exact same thing. The Touch was not good. The tonality of instruments was way off, dull, and soundstage was small. I was shocked to say the least. These differences were not subtle and all 4 of us heard it. For those who like the Touch as is, no worries, we all have preferences.

Lets keep this civil please.

Happy Easter!
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post #188 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 06:55 AM
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I am sorry for this, but this kind of behavior does not fly with me.

yawn... sigh... This thread is turning into rubbish. How about moving on? (Also he can't read your message if he has you on ignore...) I'm pretty sure the touch being 'rubbish' was a bit over the top. Analog out probably works ok, but not just as well as digital out...

So for whatever reason, the Ascend towers sounded better this time, "the Ascend Towers are an awesome speaker for the money if I do say so myself."

So the Ascend towers will be, are, around 2000$ I think... What was the price of the other speakers in attendance? Did they all make it?

Paradigm Sig 8's (the newest revision)
Salk HT2-TL's with LCY ribbon tweeter
Salk SongTower's with LCY ribbon tweeter
Bose Wave radio
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post #189 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 07:17 AM - Thread Starter
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So the Ascend towers will be, are, around 2000$ I think... What was the price of the other speakers in attendance? Did they all make it?

Paradigm Sig 8's (the newest revision)
Salk HT2-TL's with LCY ribbon tweeter
Salk SongTower's with LCY ribbon tweeter
Bose Wave radio

Ascends, yes around $2K
Salk HT2-TL's - around $4500
Song Towers with Ribbon - $2600 ish
Paradigm Sig8's - retail for around $7-$8K

The Ascends did sound better in Terry's room, I think the longer side walls really do help a room. I think each speaker had its pluses/minuses and none were bad in anyway, I liked them all! Each had its unique sound, the Salks of course were very similar. I do enjoy the Ribbon tweeter, its very natural and smooth. I feel the Soft dome on the Ascends is one of the best I heard. I almost wish certain attributes of each speaker could be combined into one, speaker design is all about trade offs

I think rather than any of us coming out and saying speaker A or B was better/worse, all of the readers should try and listen themselves in their room. You can start with research in these forums, but dont let us decide for you! Use your ears. As you can see, we already have folks on each side of the Touch's sound, so opinions can vary greatly. One thing is for certain, Salk and Ascend offer awesome speakers at a great price
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post #190 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 07:34 AM
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How are the dynamics of the Sierra tower compared to say the S8, the only speakers I heard in the group? I know that it's not really the same price range, and it could be hard to qualify... But to give an example, I have Sierras in a small room, and while they sound great, and much 'bigger' than their size would seem to allow, when compared to S8s, or Wilson Watts Puppy, or $$$ large speakers, just have that something 'extra' ... Visceralness, the thump, effortless dynamics... Of course, very different beasts, probably has something to do with the others costing 10-25 times more... But how much better, closer, do the Ascends get? Is there like a big jump from the 1s? Was there like a big difference between all the speakers or were all they somewhat similar?
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post #191 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 07:43 AM
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come on guy's .......at least give us a "brief" overview of how the speakers compare
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post #192 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 08:51 AM
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Pics!
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post #193 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Pics!

And the winner is......................
LL
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post #194 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 09:21 AM
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And the winner is......................

Hey Brandon,

Thats the one I got! I'm thinking of using two of them 6' apart to get some real serious imaging and soundstage. I might contact Jim Salk to make custom cabinents for them. Happy Easter everyone!

Bill


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, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

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post #195 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey Brandon,

Thats the one I got! I'm thinking of using two of them 6' apart to get some real serious imaging and soundstage. I might contact Jim Salk to make custom cabinents for them. Happy Easter everyone!

Bill

Just trying to keep the mood positive

Happy Easter!
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post #196 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 10:29 AM
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You're right Grandarf - I won't let jewel ruin my fun. The Touch's analogs are are indeed rubbish, though, I won't go back on that one. They'll give you music, but once you hear how much better the Touch can sound you'll likely react the way we did. Just my opinion, of course.

To answer your question, there was not a huge margin of difference between speakers IMO. At this point you're into that "point of diminishing returns" realm. There were clear differences and better attributes between speakers, but no speaker was destroyed by another speaker.

As far as the Ascend Towers, they are leagues above the Sierra's (I only heard the originals, so I cannot comment on the newer ones). The midrange is more detailed and resolving, the highs aren't lacking extension and detail anymore, and the bass is supper punchy and has nice extension for such small drivers. They also throw a much larger soundstage and have more precise imaging over the Sierra-1s. If you're thinking of making the switch you should definitely audition them first if you can, but I think you'll really like what you hear. Since Dave offers a trial period I'd say you should give them ago if you want to try another Ascend product.

Dynamics: The Sigs are much easier to drive and can get a lot louder than any of the other speakers. Obviously Paradigm felt this was an important design attribute, and they did a great job in this department IMO. There are things that they other three speakers did better, though, so it all comes down to which trade offs you're willing to live with. Do you want extreme dynamics, absolute clean resolution, wicked bass, ultimate transparency, etc? You've got to decide what you like, then choose based on that. As I mentioned yesterday, no one left the GTG feeling as if their speakers were inferior. I'll happily keep my ST's, unless Terry wants to give me his HT2-TL's for them, and I'd be willing to bet the others would say the same about their own speakers.

Rather than do a review for every speaker, perhaps we could just do a Q and A. Ask us what you want to know and we'll be honest about what we heard, even if it means getting harrassed by some folks via responses or PM's. But please, just remember they are only our opinions and they may not apply in your situation and/or different rooms. Do not buy speakers based on other people's opinions.


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post #197 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 10:35 AM
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I guess my question would be overall what were the overall impressions of the comparison between the Towers and the SongTowers. In other words do the two speakers have similar qualities or is it more a matter of preference between the two speakers. Thanks!.

Bill


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post #198 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I guess my question would be overall what were the overall impressions of the comparison between the Towers and the SongTowers. In other words do the two speakers have similar qualities or is it more a matter of preference between the two speakers. Thanks!.

Bill

For me, its a matter of preference; I think Brandon would agree too. It's too bad the two members that aren't owners of either brand cannot chime in, as their opinions should hold more weight here. I preferred the SongTower RT's, as the top end and upper midrange is more refined and has a smoother transition between crossover regions. Others may agree or disagree, which is why having a direct comparison such as this is so important, and in the same room if possible. I will say this, though: one of the "newb" members left the GTG wanting to order a pair of SongTower's, and the other left still trying to decide to either keep his preorder for the Ascend Towers or cough up another $700 for the SongTower RT's. Both speakers are amazing in their respective price ranges, and I would really love to hear the dome SongTower's compared to the Ascend Towers. That would be the ultimate comparo!

So I guess my ranking of the ID speakers would be:

1) HT2TL's
2) SongTower RT's
3) Ascend Towers

The good thing (for me), is that I felt the SongTower's were 95% of what the HT2-TL's were. Take into consideration, though, that we listened to all speakers crossed over to dual subwoofers at 80Hz for the entire GTG, so we were judging the speakers from about 80-100Hz and above.


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post #199 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 10:53 AM
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For me, its a matter of preference; I think Brandon would agree too. It's too bad the two members that aren't owners of either brand cannot chime in, as their opinions should hold more weight here. I preferred the SongTower RT's, as the top end and upper midrange is more refined and has a smoother transition between crossover regions. Others may agree or disagree, which is why having a direct comparison such as this is so important, and in the same room if possible. I will say this, though: one of the "newb" members left the GTG wanting to order a pair of SongTower's, and the other left still trying to decide to either keep his preorder for the Ascend Towers or cough up another $700 for the SongTower RT's. Both speakers are amazing in their respective price ranges, and I would really love to hear the dome SongTower's compared to the Ascend Towers. That would be the ultimate comparo!

So I guess my ranking of the ID speakers would be:

1) HT2TL's
2) SongTower RT's
3) Ascend Towers

The good thing (for me), is that I felt the SongTower's were 95% of what the HT2-TL's were. Take into consideration, though, that we listened to all speakers crossed over to dual subwoofers at 80Hz for the entire GTG, so we were judging the speakers from about 80-100Hz and above.

Brandon,

As always thanks for your thoughts. Although I do not have the RT SongTowers your thoughts that the RT SongTowers are 95% of what the HT2-TLs are indicates what an excellent speaker the STs are. So maybe my dome STs are 85-90% to what the HT2-TLs are. I hope the other attendees chime in and it would be great if the non Salk/Ascend owners would be able to post their thoughts as well. The dome STs and the Towers really would be an excellent comparison.

Bill


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post #200 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 11:07 AM
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Brandon,

As always thanks for your thoughts. Although I do not have the RT SongTowers your thoughts that the RT SongTowers are 95% of what the HT2-TLs are indicates what an excellent speaker the STs are. So maybe my dome STs are 85-90% to what the HT2-TLs are. I hope the other attendees chime in and it would be great if the non Salk/Ascend owners would be able to post their thoughts as well. The dome STs and the Towers really would be an excellent comparison.

Bill

Of course, don't the current Songtower RTs (and HT2-TL) use the better RAAL tweeter now?

I own the regular dome Songtowers, and heard Jim's Songtower RTs at the CA Audio show last year. I personally did not notice an improvement, though everything was different (room, electronics, placement, etc) so I'm not putting much weight on that observation. I wouldn't be surprised if I preferred them in a back to back test. Though I will say that I appreciate the wider horizontal dispersion of the dome tweeters every day (as I neglect the sweet spot)!
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post #201 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I feel the Ascends have better mid bass punch than the ST's. As for the upper mids and highs, nuance said it as well, the salks are very smooth while the ascends are more agressive/forward. Not really sure what is right/wrong here. Could the salks be dull or the ascends forward, tough call. I almost would want a speaker right in the middle of the two if I'm being honest. Sometimes I feel the ascends are more engaging on certain material while the salks are more fluid on other tracks. Personal tastes really come into play here. I still have no regrets and love my Towers! With the rock material i listen to most, I feel I made the right choice based on my budget
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post #202 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 11:39 AM
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hey brandon,

thats the one i got! I'm thinking of using two of them 6' apart to get some real serious imaging and soundstage:d. I might contact jim salk to make custom cabinents for them. Happy easter everyone!

Bill

lol!

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Of course, don't the current Songtower RTs (and HT2-TL) use the better RAAL tweeter now?

Yes.


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post #203 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 11:53 AM
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lol!



Yes.

The current ST's also have the ER15 instead of the CA15 woofers on Brandon's. But frankly, the switch to the ER made more difference on the dome version than the ribbon. I guess I'm a little puzzled as to why you did all of your listening with the subs in play. The major difference in price between the ST's and the HT2's is due to bass performance, not midrange. And in general I think people not owning subs, or subs the size of Cleveland, would have wanted to know just how much difference there was in bass extension between the speakers. Maybe next Easter?
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post #204 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 12:12 PM
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The current ST's also have the ER15 instead of the CA15 woofers on Brandon's. But frankly, the switch to the ER made more difference on the dome version than the ribbon. I guess I'm a little puzzled as to why you did all of your listening with the subs in play. The major difference in price between the ST's and the HT2's is due to bass performance, not midrange. And in general I think people not owning subs, or subs the size of Cleveland, would have wanted to know just how much difference there was in bass extension between the speakers. Maybe next Easter?

Dennis, if you recall the private messages we exchanged on Audio Circle, you would remember that my room has a significant bass peak at 36Hz. Nuance and I discussed this and decided that we'd just keep the EQ'd subs in play.

As I've heard all of the speakers full-range, I'd say the Ascend Towers have an advantage over the SongTowers for midbass punch. Actually I think the Ascends have better midbass punch than my HT2-TLs. I'm confused by this a bit because I believe that the midbass punch of my HT2-TLs gets drowned out a bit because of the low bass output. When we compared the HT2-TLs to the Ascend Towers in the previous room, the HT2-TLs had significantly more low bass, but the Ascend's came off as having more punch.

The SongTowers come off the same way. They sound like they dig deeper, but lack that midbass punch. A transmission line vs. ported issue? I did feel like the Ascend's bass was a little strained at times, but it is very good. If you're a bass freak and don't run a sub, the Ascend's are better IMO.

Both Nuance and I could detect a small difference in the midrange between the HT2-TL and the SongTower. I think we'd call it resolution. The sound was ever so slightly different. The upper end was identical as it should be. So Nuance's comment about 95% the same is accurate.

And who has subs "the size of Cleveland?"
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post #205 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Nuance View Post


So I guess my ranking of the ID speakers would be:

1) HT2TL's
2) SongTower RT's
3) Ascend Towers

The good thing (for me), is that I felt the SongTower's were 95% of what the HT2-TL's were. Take into consideration, though, that we listened to all speakers crossed over to dual subwoofers at 80Hz for the entire GTG, so we were judging the speakers from about 80-100Hz and above.

Let me start with saying Thank You to Terry and his wife and family for hosting this event - Food was great and we really took over the house, and hope we were not too obnoxious - I say that knowing we were...

Nuance -
I will second this in that order...
1) HT2TL's
2) SongTower RT's
3) Ascend Towers

I liked the new Ascend towers, I felt they improved on the Sierra 1's lacking abilities, but something seemed off and I can't put my finger on what it was - I would want to have more time before I could honestly identify what it was that I thought I heard... I agree they sounded very good and had more presence in the midrange then the Salks... All speakers were very good performers and would not disappoint.

I'll start with my baseline owning the S8's. I really love what my S8's offer, and have lived with them for quite some time. These speakers will swallow up and spit out gobs of power and get extremely loud while maintaining their composure, but you really don't know what your missing when you don't hear them up against the other speakers - the S8's are more forward in nature, very powerful and have a ton of punch - with the Be tweets being the closest thing I have heard to a ribbon tweet. They throw a huge wide and deep soundstage - we had them toed in at first but then pointed them straight out and every thing opened up - to me they are great sounding speakers, but with the prices inflated 2-3K from when I bought them - I'm not sure I could recommend them, especially after hearing them directly after hearing the HT2-TL's...

Its been a while since I heard the Salks, both with identical Ribbon - I agree - they were almost identical in sonic nature and hearing them up against my S8's was bitter/sweet... the transparency of the Salks is just downright phenomenal. We had some amazing music to run through all the speakers, very dynamic and revealing any weaknesses they might have. All the speakers performed above par for their price range with mine being the overpriced leaders IMO...

It really clicked home to me how amazing the Salks really were - I really liked them before, but in a side by side with the S8's I just plain like them all the more... I can't say enough great things about them... They are just downright amazing..

Do they make me want to give up my Sigs - no, but I know the guy I brought to the gtg is now on a mission to upgrade to some ST's with ribbons...


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post #206 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Let me start with saying Thank You to Terry and his wife and family for hosting this event - Food was great and we really took over the house, and hope we were not too obnoxious - I say that knowing we were...

Nuance -
I will second this in that order...
1) HT2TL's
2) SongTower RT's
3) Ascend Towers

I liked the new Ascend towers, I felt they improved on the Sierra 1's lacking abilities, but something seemed off and I can't put my finger on what it was - I would want to have more time before I could honestly identify what it was that I thought I heard... I agree they sounded very good and had more presence in the midrange then the Salks... All speakers were very good performers and would not disappoint.

I'll start with my baseline owning the S8's. I really love what my S8's offer, and have lived with them for quite some time. These speakers will swallow up and spit out gobs of power and get extremely loud while maintaining their composure, but you really don't know what your missing when you don't hear them up against the other speakers - the S8's are more forward in nature, very powerful and have a ton of punch - with the Be tweets being the closest thing I have heard to a ribbon tweet. They throw a huge wide and deep soundstage - we had them toed in at first but then pointed them straight out and every thing opened up - to me they are great sounding speakers, but with the prices inflated 2-3K from when I bought them - I'm not sure I could recommend them, especially after hearing them directly after hearing the HT2-TL's...

Its been a while since I heard the Salks, both with identical Ribbon - I agree - they were almost identical in sonic nature and hearing them up against my S8's was bitter/sweet... the transparency of the Salks is just downright phenomenal. We had some amazing music to run through all the speakers, very dynamic and revealing any weaknesses they might have. All the speakers performed above par for their price range with mine being the overpriced leaders IMO...

It really clicked home to me how amazing the Salks really were - I really liked them before, but in a side by side with the S8's I just plain like them all the more... I can't say enough great things about them... They are just downright amazing..

Do they make me want to give up my Sigs - no, but I know the guy I brought to the gtg is now on a mission to upgrade to some ST's with ribbons...

Warp:

While I'd love to see you get a pair of Salk's, I'm afraid you'd kill them weekly. Your setup ABSOLUTELY REQUIRES a speaker like the Sig 8's. The Be tweeter is amazingly good and the speakers maintain their composure at insane volumes better than anything I've heard. I'm sorry, but Jim Salk does not make a speaker that will keep up with the "XLERATORS".
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post #207 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 04:08 PM
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Terry took pics of all the speakers, I'm sure he'll post them up in the near future...


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post #208 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 05:17 PM
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Good stuff guys...... thanks for sharing your impressions.

I guess I was hoping the Ascend Towers would blow the socks off all comers

But it sounds like they held their own against speakers costing quite a bit more.

What would you guys say were the Towers strengths and weaknesses?

What kind of music would you say they would excel with / struggle with?

Regards,

DreamCatcher

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post #209 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by DreamCatcher View Post

Good stuff guys...... thanks for sharing your impressions.

I guess I was hoping the Ascend Towers would blow the socks off all comers

But it sounds like they held their own against speakers costing quite a bit more.

What would you guys say were the Towers strengths and weaknesses?

What kind of music would you say they would excel with / struggle with?

Regards,

DreamCatcher

LOL, no, the Ascends didn't blow the socks off the other contenders. No speaker really got blown away. I am sure we already said this, but there was no bad speaker at the GTG.

On to your music question: I don't feel the Ascend Towers necessarily struggled with any music; more like they just had a few different sound quality attributes when compared to the other speakers. A good speaker will excel with all well recorded music IMO.

As has been mentioned, the upper midrange/lower treble has a different sound than the Salk's, and the tonality of instruments is a bit different. Which one you'll deem more accurate is something only you can decide, but in my opinion the Ascends had more bite in that region, and the Salk's were more refined. I would guess Brandon prefers the presentation of the Ascends, while I prefer the Salk's. This could also simply be our listener bias since we're used to our own speakers. I wish Jay or Aaron would post their impressions...

Strengths of the Ascend Towers

- Much better tweeter than on the original Sierra-1's
- Resolving midrange
- Tight, punchy bass that is very impressive for 5.25" drivers; also nice extension
- Throws a wide, deep soundstage

Weaknesses of the Ascend Towers

- Tweeter might have a bit too much bite, as does the upper midrange.

I'd say that the strengths far outweigh the one weakness I had with the Ascend Towers. I also wish I could have scored more listening time with them in Terry's home, but we put in around 7 hours of listening time, so we were pretty exhausted. I hope we can do something like this again this summer, though.


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post #210 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Brandon,
So maybe my dome STs are 85-90% to what the HT2-TLs are.
Bill

I would say that estimate is spot on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

The current ST's also have the ER15 instead of the CA15 woofers on Brandon's. But frankly, the switch to the ER made more difference on the dome version than the ribbon. I guess I'm a little puzzled as to why you did all of your listening with the subs in play. The major difference in price between the ST's and the HT2's is due to bass performance, not midrange. And in general I think people not owning subs, or subs the size of Cleveland, would have wanted to know just how much difference there was in bass extension between the speakers. Maybe next Easter?

Terry pretty much explained it best; it was because of that room peak. Terry is pretty bummed that his room causes this peak (yes, we confirmed it was the room, as the peak is gone in Brandon's room), so in order to not cause confusion we kept the FR below 80Hz static. However, based on what I have already heard in the past, the SongTower's bass is definitely different sounding than the Ascend Tower's bass. I prefer the TL bass, while Brandon prefers the port reflex sound, with the latter having more oomph/punch (perhaps due to the dual, larger drivers). This will come down to personal preference, of course, and pretty much becomes null and void if you choose to cross over to a subwoofer (like all of us from the GTG do). I hope that makes sense, sir.

Warpdrv,

Thanks for posting your impressions, bro, even at the risk of being harassed by certain forum members. We appreciate it!


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