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post #211 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^
well said nuance! Very good explanation citing the attributes of the different speakers.

Yes, another GTG is always a good idea!
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post #212 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by merrymaid520 View Post

Yes, another GTG is always a good idea!

Hopefully a GTG at the end of the summer or early fall. Then maybe some guys from the East Coast might be able to attend when its not sub zero in WI.

On a different note I sent an email to Dr. Bose to see if he would possibly build a Tower version of the Wave Radio. I am patiently awaiting his response.

Bill

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post #213 of 1777 Old 04-24-2011, 06:45 PM
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On a different note I sent an email to Dr. Bose to see if he would possibly build a Tower version of the Wave Radio. I am patiently awaiting his response.

Bill

As long as your willing to except a cone tweeter, and spring clip wire connection!

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post #214 of 1777 Old 04-25-2011, 07:10 AM
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For me, its a matter of preference; I think Brandon would agree too. It's too bad the two members that aren't owners of either brand cannot chime in, as their opinions should hold more weight here. I preferred the SongTower RT's, as the top end and upper midrange is more refined and has a smoother transition between crossover regions. Others may agree or disagree, which is why having a direct comparison such as this is so important, and in the same room if possible. I will say this, though: one of the "newb" members left the GTG wanting to order a pair of SongTower's, and the other left still trying to decide to either keep his preorder for the Ascend Towers or cough up another $700 for the SongTower RT's. Both speakers are amazing in their respective price ranges, and I would really love to hear the dome SongTower's compared to the Ascend Towers. That would be the ultimate comparo!

So I guess my ranking of the ID speakers would be:

1) HT2TL's
2) SongTower RT's
3) Ascend Towers

The good thing (for me), is that I felt the SongTower's were 95% of what the HT2-TL's were. Take into consideration, though, that we listened to all speakers crossed over to dual subwoofers at 80Hz for the entire GTG, so we were judging the speakers from about 80-100Hz and above.

Wait did you just call me a newb? :P

I completely agree with everything Brandon says, and will plagiarize his review and pawn it off as my own.

No but in all seriousness I am now on the lookout for a Pair of Song towers, for me they really were that good. Period. I especially loved the transition (or lack thereof) between the crossover, and the highs just sound truly effortless, its something I've never heard in a dome tweeter and at this point IMO isn't possible to attain in a dome tweeter.

In hindsight I wish I could have listened to a little wider variety of music on the ST's as what I heard was excellent, but not what I would listen to on a regular basis. I guess thats par for the course though when playing back reference material for critical listening. I look at it like bencharking a PC to gauge performance, your not actually doing tasks that you would do on a regular basis, you are getting an idea of what the system is capable of in a "best case scenario".

Thanks again to Terry, Patrick, Brandon#1, Brandon#2, and Jay for coming out and sharing the exploration of our inner geekness. I still laugh when I see the look on my wife's face when I tell her what I was planning on doing on Saturday, "your going to Manitowoc for what?" hehe.

Aaron
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post #215 of 1777 Old 04-25-2011, 07:19 AM
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Warpdrv,

Thanks for posting your impressions, bro, even at the risk of being harassed by certain forum members. We appreciate it!

As I said earlier - I'm not nearly as good as conveying my thoughts in words or identifying the discrepancies from one speaker to another in such a short listening session, I'm sure more then enough people can agree with me on this.
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post #216 of 1777 Old 04-25-2011, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Aaron,
Nice seeing you guys again! I am glad we helped spend your money
You will like those ST's!

Thanks for the good beer BTW.

Take care,
B

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Originally Posted by krzywica View Post

Wait did you just call me a newb? :P

I completely agree with everything Brandon says, and will plagiarize his review and pawn it as my own.

No but in all seriousness I am now on the lookout for a Pair of Song towers, for me they really were that good. Period. I especially loved the transition (or lack thereof) between the crossover, and the highs just sound truly effortless, its something I've never heard in a dome tweeter and at this point IMO isn't possible to attain in a dome tweeter.

In hindsight I wish I could have listened to a little wider variety of music on the ST's as what I heard was excellent, but not what I would listen to on a regular basis. I guess thats par for the course though when playing back reference material for critical listening. I look at it like bencharking a PC to gauge performance, your not actually doing tasks that you would do on a regular basis, you are getting an idea of what the system is capable of in a "best case scenario".

Thanks again to Terry, Patrick, Brandon#1, Brandon#2, and Jay for coming out and sharing the exploration of our inner geekness. I still laugh when I see the look on my wife's face when I tell her what I was planning on doing on Saturday, "your going to Manitowoc for what?" hehe.

Aaron

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post #217 of 1777 Old 04-25-2011, 08:45 AM
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Sounds like everyone enjoyed the GTG!

I wish someone in my area would throw a GTG where these speakers were all present. I love my Sierra-1 w/NrT upgrade. The only Salks I've had the opportunity to hear were a prototype pair of the open baffle towers, but they had a dome tweeter rather than the ribbons now standard in them. I felt they had a very open, smooth sound with lots of detail. I had my 12" Rythmik servo serving up the low end and I'm not sure if they were being crossed over or run full? It was at a fellow AVS'rs house. I did not bring my Sierra-1's along as they had not been upgraded yet to the NrT. So, probably not a good comparison. I went primarily so he could see what my Rythmik would sound like in his system. On that note, he was impressed. I was impressed with the Salks.

It all comes down to personal preference as to which "flavor" appeals the most to us. I tend to like a bit more bite, or aggressiveness, without any harshness. If the speakers are too smooth, or laid back, it tends to make me turn the volume up to get the punch and bite I expect. With the NrT upgrade in my Sierra's, I can keep the volume at a more sane level and still get that. I'd have to concur with the statements of the Ascend tower being improved over the Sierra in dynamics, midrange resolution and soundstaging simply due to the dedicated mid driver and dual woofers. Same for the Salks with the TL cabinet and extra mid-woofer.

Two flavors here, neither right nor wrong.
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post #218 of 1777 Old 04-25-2011, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Two flavors here, neither right nor wrong.

There is something wrong, Vanilla is best.


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post #219 of 1777 Old 04-25-2011, 09:52 AM
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There is something wrong, Vanilla is best.




Then why did you buy chocolate.... ?!?!?!

HOTDIGITY, you got a good handle on it here...

These are all really good speakers and everyone has their own tastes, but also - everyone has different needs to fill in their own room.... to serve the best results...
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post #220 of 1777 Old 04-25-2011, 10:25 AM
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Whoa, my bad Aaron; didn't realize you were actually a member. Very cool! Thanks for sharing your impressions man. It's good to have a non-owner chime in. Funny story - I actually got the third degree from my five-year-old when I arrived home. She was waiting for me at the window and asked if I was done with speaker parties for a while. She said that I like my speakers too much. My wife is finally used to all this, but now the kids are starting to notice. I may have to cool it for a while.

HOTDIGITY,

You nailed it man.

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post #221 of 1777 Old 04-25-2011, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Nuance View Post
Whoa, my bad Aaron; didn't realize you were actually a member. Very cool! Thanks for sharing your impressions man. It's good to have a non-owner chime in. Funny story - I actually got the third degree from my five-year-old when I arrived home. She was waiting for me at the window and asked if I was done with speaker parties for a while. She said that I like my speakers too much. My wife is finally used to all this, but now the kids are starting to notice. I may have to cool it for a while.

HOTDIGITY,

You nailed it man.
You may have to attend speakers anonymous. I have done three or four stints always because my wife made me.
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post #222 of 1777 Old 04-25-2011, 10:52 AM
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Whoa, my bad Aaron; didn't realize you were actually a member. Very cool! Thanks for sharing your impressions man. It's good to have a non-owner chime in. Funny story - I actually got the third degree from my five-year-old when I arrived home. She was waiting for me at the window and asked if I was done with speaker parties for a while. She said that I like my speakers too much. My wife is finally used to all this, but now the kids are starting to notice. I may have to cool it for a while.

HOTDIGITY,

You nailed it man.
Hehe, yeah I found it amusing. That is funny about your kid.

I'm gonna have to line up an audition at your place down the road if thats ok with you? I would love to hear some more material on the towers and also hear them full range without a sub on the bottom to see how they can perform by themselves.
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post #223 of 1777 Old 04-25-2011, 12:49 PM
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For me, its a matter of preference; I think Brandon would agree too. It's too bad the two members that aren't owners of either brand cannot chime in, as their opinions should hold more weight here. I preferred the SongTower RT's, as the top end and upper midrange is more refined and has a smoother transition between crossover regions. Others may agree or disagree, which is why having a direct comparison such as this is so important, and in the same room if possible. I will say this, though: one of the "newb" members left the GTG wanting to order a pair of SongTower's, and the other left still trying to decide to either keep his preorder for the Ascend Towers or cough up another $700 for the SongTower RT's. Both speakers are amazing in their respective price ranges, and I would really love to hear the dome SongTower's compared to the Ascend Towers. That would be the ultimate comparo!

So I guess my ranking of the ID speakers would be:

1) HT2TL's
2) SongTower RT's
3) Ascend Towers

The good thing (for me), is that I felt the SongTower's were 95% of what the HT2-TL's were. Take into consideration, though, that we listened to all speakers crossed over to dual subwoofers at 80Hz for the entire GTG, so we were judging the speakers from about 80-100Hz and above.

Good afternoon folks! I didn’t get back home to St Louis until late yesterday – looks like I’m the last attendee to post. I am truly one of the “newbs” that attended. I currently have a modest system consisting of Boston VR2s, Rythmik D15SE and Yamaha RX-V2400. I pre-ordered the Ascend Towers prior to the GTG last weekend.

I want to start by thanking Brandon (merrymaid) and his wife for inviting me to their home on Friday to listen to his Ascend Towers and my Boston VR2s and I want to thank Terry, his wife and family for extending an invitation to me and hosting the GTG on Saturday!

I have had 500 miles of driving time to reflect and have concluded that I would be happy with either the Ascend Towers or the SongTower RTs. I agree with Nuance and merrymaid – this is a matter of personal preference. I don’t think I can describe the characteristics as fluently as others but here goes. I felt that the Ascends had the edge in bass and certainly more mid-bass punch. I found the SongTowers RT had very engaging upper mids and highs – it sounded more refined and precise. I do like the sound of the ribbon tweeter on the SongTowers and I am having trouble getting past this. But then there is the budget – the $600 difference is not trivial. As merrymaid and Nuance suggested earlier – find a way to listen to these for yourself. My 1000 mile round-trip drive was well worth it!

Final note – a big tip of the hat to the SE Wisc GTG group: merrymaid520, TJHUB, Nuance, Warpdrv and krzywica. What a great group - thanks for the invitation and for sharing your insights and experiences!

Jay
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post #224 of 1777 Old 04-25-2011, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Randy Bessinger View Post

You may have to attend speakers anonymous. I have done three or four stints always because my wife made me.

Hehe, yeah, I might have to join that.

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Hehe, yeah I found it amusing. That is funny about your kid.

I'm gonna have to line up an audition at your place down the road if thats ok with you? I would love to hear some more material on the towers and also hear them full range without a sub on the bottom to see how they can perform by themselves.

You can come by the house for a listen any time, Aaron.

Thanks for the impressions, Jay - very cool. You can't go wrong with either speaker man. Keep us posted as to what you decide.

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post #225 of 1777 Old 04-25-2011, 04:11 PM
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Good afternoon folks! I didn't get back home to St Louis until late yesterday - looks like I'm the last attendee to post. I am truly one of the newbs that attended. I currently have a modest system consisting of Boston VR2s, Rythmik D15SE and Yamaha RX-V2400. I pre-ordered the Ascend Towers prior to the GTG last weekend.

I want to start by thanking Brandon (merrymaid) and his wife for inviting me to their home on Friday to listen to his Ascend Towers and my Boston VR2s and I want to thank Terry, his wife and family for extending an invitation to me and hosting the GTG on Saturday!

I have had 500 miles of driving time to reflect and have concluded that I would be happy with either the Ascend Towers or the SongTower RTs. I agree with Nuance and merrymaid - this is a matter of personal preference. I don't think I can describe the characteristics as fluently as others but here goes. I felt that the Ascends had the edge in bass and certainly more mid-bass punch. I found the SongTowers RT had very engaging upper mids and highs - it sounded more refined and precise. I do like the sound of the ribbon tweeter on the SongTowers and I am having trouble getting past this. But then there is the budget - the $600 difference is not trivial. As merrymaid and Nuance suggested earlier - find a way to listen to these for yourself. My 1000 mile round-trip drive was well worth it!

Final note - a big tip of the hat to the SE Wisc GTG group: merrymaid520, TJHUB, Nuance, Warpdrv and krzywica. What a great group - thanks for the invitation and for sharing your insights and experiences!

Jay

Too bad you weren't able to listen to some Songtowers that have the soft dome tweeter as those would be the same or maybe slightly less expensive than the Ascend Towers. I read somewhere, maybe here, maybe on other reviews that unless one listens to a lot of classical, string, violin music that you really can't tell much diffference in the sound of the ribbons and the domes and the domes are better for off center listening.

I'm like you in that I don't know if I want to spend an extra $700 for a ribbon tweeter. Maybe Dennis will chime in here
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post #226 of 1777 Old 04-25-2011, 04:29 PM
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Too bad you weren't able to listen to some Songtowers that have the soft dome tweeter as those would be the same or maybe slightly less expensive than the Ascend Towers. I read somewhere, maybe here, maybe on other reviews that unless one listens to a lot of classical, string, violin music that you really can't tell much diffference in the sound of the ribbons and the domes and the domes are better for off center listening.

This exactly what I had in the back of my mind about the diff. that was spelled out. Although that last edge for the delicate tingle of the highest edge of the spectrum is what separates the good from the great when it comes to soft dome and ribbon. There is always a trade off - that unfortunate give and take. I would love to have someone bring some soft dome tweets to the party to judge the diff for myself and the rest of the Wi gtg boys.

I had my own compromises to deal with and the Be tweet is an extremely nice middle to upper ground between them both.
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post #227 of 1777 Old 04-25-2011, 04:54 PM
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Too bad you weren't able to listen to some Songtowers that have the soft dome tweeter as those would be the same or maybe slightly less expensive than the Ascend Towers. I read somewhere, maybe here, maybe on other reviews that unless one listens to a lot of classical, string, violin music that you really can't tell much diffference in the sound of the ribbons and the domes and the domes are better for off center listening.

I'm like you in that I don't know if I want to spend an extra $700 for a ribbon tweeter. Maybe Dennis will chime in here

I'm pretty much out of ding dongs. All I can say is that if you have very clean material, and can A-B the dome and ribbon instantly, you will hear a difference. The real question is whether you would catch on if someone snuck in while you were sleeping and switched in an 0W1 disguised as a RAAL ribbon. Would you turn them on the next morning and file a warranty claim with Jim because they didn't sound as good? Or would you be none the wiser? I dunno.
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post #228 of 1777 Old 04-25-2011, 05:13 PM
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Great job guys! I'm looking to upgrade my original Sierra-1 speakers with something a bit more dynamic and the Songtowers are the speakers that I'm looking at. Any reason why the speakers were not tested without the subs? Not enough time to try that set-up?
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post #229 of 1777 Old 04-25-2011, 05:16 PM
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That says incredibly close to me Dennis !!

Appreciate your extreme efforts in doing what you do to give the line of Salk speakers what they bring to the table !!
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post #230 of 1777 Old 04-25-2011, 07:44 PM
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I'd bet anything that I could tell the difference within 30 seconds between the dome and ribbons. Any day, any time.

Someone test me...
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post #231 of 1777 Old 04-25-2011, 07:53 PM
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I'd bet anything that I could tell the difference within 30 seconds between the dome and ribbons. Any day, any time.

Someone test me...


And I'll say it again...

Quote:


golden sonic bat ears

I'm curious if your speaker cables talk to you in the middle of the night, and what does your wife say when you go out to the living room to have conversations with them....
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post #232 of 1777 Old 04-25-2011, 07:56 PM
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I'm curious if your speaker cables talk to you in the middle of the night, and what does your wife say when you go out to the living room to have conversations with them....

She says nothing...she understands. But I don't go out to the living room, the cables come to bed with me every night.
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post #233 of 1777 Old 04-25-2011, 08:05 PM
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She says nothing...she understands. But I don't go out to the living room, the cables come to bed with me every night.

LOL - that's pee in the pants funny !!!!
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post #234 of 1777 Old 04-25-2011, 08:54 PM
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LOL! You guys are hilarious!

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Great job guys! I'm looking to upgrade my original Sierra-1 speakers with something a bit more dynamic and the Songtowers are the speakers that I'm looking at. Any reason why the speakers were not tested without the subs? Not enough time to try that set-up?

Terry has a huge bass peak in his room in the mid 30's, and due to this we thought it might skew the bass response of the speakers in attendance. The easy way around this was to created a static lower end (keeping it the same), thus crossing over to the subwoofers (which are the best subs I've heard besides warpdrv's setup, which happen to use the exact same drivers). We didn't want that peak to come into play and give false impressions. Besides, every one of us that attended the GTG cross over to a subwoofer for music, so it just seemed like the right thing to do. When we get together again this summer I promise we'll try running full range and give impressions on the lower end of each speaker.

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post #235 of 1777 Old 04-26-2011, 08:13 AM
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Great job guys! I'm looking to upgrade my original Sierra-1 speakers with something a bit more dynamic and the Songtowers are the speakers that I'm looking at. Any reason why the speakers were not tested without the subs? Not enough time to try that set-up?

I asked the same question. The answer is that the room they were in had a gynormous bass peak that could be equalized out with the sub. They were afraid the untamed bass would throw off reactions to the speakers in other areas.
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post #236 of 1777 Old 04-26-2011, 08:22 AM
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Did you guys listen to any music with female singers? Some of the female singers that have a powerful voice and can sing in the upper registers is where the unpleasantness shows up...at least for me. My speakers seems aggressive/forward on that kind of music and that is what I'm looking to get away from with my next set of speakers.
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post #237 of 1777 Old 04-26-2011, 08:45 AM
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Did you guys listen to any music with female singers? Some of the female singers that have a powerful voice and can sing in the upper registers is where the unpleasantness shows up...at least for me. My speakers seems aggressive/forward on that kind of music and that is what I'm looking to get away from with my next set of speakers.

I'm curious about this too. I'm sensitive to the higher registers as well. I'm sure both would do fairly well as neither are conventional metal domes. I think it's the long CSD of certain tweeters that causes this.
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post #238 of 1777 Old 04-26-2011, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miller8b View Post

Did you guys listen to any music with female singers? Some of the female singers that have a powerful voice and can sing in the upper registers is where the unpleasantness shows up...at least for me. My speakers seems aggressive/forward on that kind of music and that is what I'm looking to get away from with my next set of speakers.

Yes, one track in particular. Kelly Sweet, Dream on, awesome vocals and a great job on the song in general!
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post #239 of 1777 Old 04-26-2011, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by miller8b View Post

Did you guys listen to any music with female singers? Some of the female singers that have a powerful voice and can sing in the upper registers is where the unpleasantness shows up...at least for me. My speakers seems aggressive/forward on that kind of music and that is what I'm looking to get away from with my next set of speakers.

We did. Kelly Sweet as stated. I find my Salk's to be very good top to bottom. I'd say you owe it to yourself to audition a pair if you are concerned with the "unpleasantness" you are describing.

There is nothing laid back or reserved about my Salk's. They are clean with incredible detail, yet never seem to throw anything in your face or sound harsh. I can listen to any type of music and be very pleased. This is what makes them great, but their transparency makes them special.
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post #240 of 1777 Old 04-26-2011, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by TJHUB View Post

There is nothing laid back or reserved about my Salk's. They are clean with incredible detail, yet never seem to throw anything in your face or sound harsh. I can listen to any type of music and be very pleased. This is what makes them great, but their transparency makes them special.


Well said Terry....

I was really noticing how transparent they were....
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