Any speaker more neutral/"true-to-source" than B&W cm9/Diamond 804? - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 736 Old 01-21-2013, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by vailvon View Post

That is right. You posted your graph and I posted mine, what's wrong with that? So you are saying, CM9 are not bright as a whole but with a brightish sounding high end IMO. NICE.. Let's leave it at that.

I'm not taking the thread off track as the thread says specifically about CM9. Yyz67 is interested on those speakers and I have it, you don't.

Please read more on ARC. You can turn it on or off if you like. I find the sound better with ARC though.

I know what ARC is.

My graph is a quasi-anechoic one; yours is not. Please "read more on" quasi-anechoic. wink.gif In-room graphs only tell how a speaker is performing in the person's room. You also could have fudged the response with ARC but claimed not to.

You can disagree all you want because we're sharing opinions, but the third party quasi-anechoic graph speaks for itself. Moving on...smile.gif

Edit: I had forgotten about this thread and how enjoyable some of the reading was. I'm glad Monkish started it. smile.gif
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post #722 of 736 Old 01-21-2013, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

I know what ARC is.

My graph is a quasi-anechoic one; yours is not. Please "read more on" quasi-anechoic. wink.gif In-room graphs only tell how a speaker is performing in the person's room. You also could have fudged the response with ARC but claimed not to.

You can disagree all you want because we're sharing opinions, but the third party quasi-anechoic graph speaks for itself. Moving on...smile.gif

Edit: I had forgotten about this thread and how enjoyable some of the reading was. I'm glad Monkish started it. smile.gif


... and you could have spared the insinuation. You seem like a decent, generally well-meaning guy, but sometimes you get a bit wrapped up in yourself and become a tad impertinent. This is one of those times.
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post #723 of 736 Old 01-21-2013, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by vailvon View Post

I was at Dennis Murphy's house last month. He also got Salk Songtower there. I listened to it, not impressed at all. Maybe because I listened to Philharmonic 3 first. smile.gifsmile.gif

Hi I think my ST's were in the kitchen at the time, and I just turned them on briefly using the local public broadcasting station as a source. That's really
not a fair comparison. When I've had the ST's in the living room and switched back and forth with the Phil's on the same program material, the usual reaction is--wait a minute--do those really only cost half as much as the Phil's?
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post #724 of 736 Old 01-21-2013, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

Hi I think my ST's were in the kitchen at the time, and I just turned them on briefly using the local public broadcasting station as a source. That's really
not a fair comparison. When I've had the ST's in the living room and switched back and forth with the Phil's on the same program material, the usual reaction is--wait a minute--do those really only cost half as much as the Phil's?

Hi, Dennis. To tell you the truth, I wasn't interested in the Songtower in the first place because you showed me your towers and the tweeter in the works..smile.gifsmile.gif And I told you I will wait for that to finish before coming back. I am pretty sure it will be better than the Songtower as your Philharmonitor is really close to Philharmonic 3 in sound quality.

Thanks for your time as we spend quite a bit listening. I didn't post the video as we were talking all the time while listening and unfortunately the CD/material I brought didn't worked on your CD player. I just ripped it from my computer and later found out I put FLAC, mp3 and different audio formats. It worked on my laptop but I guessed not from CD players. Now I have a test CD that will play on any player..
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post #725 of 736 Old 01-21-2013, 05:35 PM
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Hi, Dennis. To tell you the truth, I wasn't interested in the Songtower in the first place because you showed me your towers and the tweeter in the works..smile.gifsmile.gif And I told you I will wait for that to finish before coming back. I am pretty sure it will be better than the Songtower as your Philharmonitor is really close to Philharmonic 3 in sound quality.

Thanks for your time as we spend quite a bit listening. I didn't post the video as we were talking all the time while listening and unfortunately the CD/material I brought didn't worked on your CD player. I just ripped it from my computer and later found out I put FLAC, mp3 and different audio formats. It worked on my laptop but I guessed not from CD players. Now I have a test CD that will play on any player..


Well, the tower design has been finalized, and I'm currently having a finished pair constructed. We'll see how they compare with the ST's. Thanks for coming over, and I hope to see you again when the towers are up and running.
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post #726 of 736 Old 01-21-2013, 05:37 PM
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... and you could have spared the insinuation. You seem like a decent, generally well-meaning guy, but sometimes you get a bit wrapped up in yourself and become a tad impertinent. This is one of those times.

That's the reason I didn't answer back anymore.. It showed his color.. I could post videos and ARC files but his eyes are closed shut. Salk all the way...

Thanks.
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post #727 of 736 Old 01-21-2013, 05:42 PM
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Well, the tower design has been finalized, and I'm currently having a finished pair constructed. We'll see how they compare with the ST's. Thanks for coming over, and I hope to see you again when the towers are up and running.

Great, let me know when it will be ready.. Will there be in home trial too?smile.gif
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post #728 of 736 Old 01-21-2013, 05:51 PM
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Great, let me know when it will be ready.. Will there be in home trial too?smile.gif

Sure--my home.
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post #729 of 736 Old 01-21-2013, 06:02 PM
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... and you could have spared the insinuation. You seem like a decent, generally well-meaning guy, but sometimes you get a bit wrapped up in yourself and become a tad impertinent. This is one of those times.
I respect your opinion.
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Originally Posted by vailvon View Post

That's the reason I didn't answer back anymore.. It showed his color.. I could post videos and ARC files but his eyes are closed shut. Salk all the way...

Thanks.
Why would I recommend other brands if my eyes were closed shut? People lie on the forums all the time, so for all I know you could have been doing that. I simply pointed that possibility out. Your in-room response is not the same as an anechoic one. That was my point. The fact that you implied you directly compared the SongTower to the Philharmonic's kind of tips the scales my way when I pointed out that you could have posted improper graphs, now doesn't it? Howaboutthat seems to think it was a jerky thing to do, but then we find out you are misleading us about the ST and Philly comparison, so...wink.gif

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post #730 of 736 Old 01-21-2013, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Why would I recommend other brands if my eyes were closed shut? People lie on the forums all the time, so for all I know you could have been doing that. I simply pointed that possibility out. Your in-room response is not the same as an anechoic one. That was my point. The end.smile.gif

In-room response is important to most of us, as we do not live in anechoic chambers (save for when our wives put us in a time-out). I know you admire Salk and Philharmonic, and doubtlessly for good reason, but B&W (like Revel, JBL, KEF, Dynaudio, Dali, Magico, Ascend, Vienna, Sonus, and many others) also has more than a little clue about how to build and tailor speakers for elements of the audiophile market. That they may tend toward a British or warm edge duly appeals to many, and that neither makes them unworthy nor lesser in and of itself. That said, if you ever do score a pair of those SoundScape 8's, I may fly out to Wisconsin (not in the wintertime) and ask for a listen myself. smile.gif
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post #731 of 736 Old 01-21-2013, 06:44 PM
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In-room response is important to most of us, as we do not live in anechoic chambers (save for when our wives put us in a time-out). I know you admire Salk and Philharmonic, and doubtlessly for good reason, but B&W (like Revel, JBL, KEF, Dynaudio, Dali, Magico, Ascend, Vienna, Sonus, and many others) also has more than a little clue about how to build and tailor speakers for elements of the audiophile market. That they may tend toward a British or warm edge duly appeals to many, and that neither makes them unworthy nor lesser in and of itself. That said, if you ever do score a pair of those SoundScape 8's, I may fly out to Wisconsin (not in the wintertime) and ask for a listen myself. smile.gif

I agree with you on all accounts. I meant no offense and was just sharing my opinion. I have my suspicions about vailvon and now we find out he lied about the "comparison," so it seems my suspicions were correct. Regardless, there are a lot of great speakers out there, and anechoic measurements can help us consumers weed out the poor designs. They won't tell us how they'll sound in our own rooms though, so listening is critical.

When I get my SS8's I'd be happy to have you over. Hopefully it'll be within a year or so.smile.gif

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post #732 of 736 Old 01-21-2013, 06:52 PM
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I respect your opinion.
Why would I recommend other brands if my eyes were closed shut? People lie on the forums all the time, so for all I know you could have been doing that. I simply pointed that possibility out. Your in-room response is not the same as an anechoic one. That was my point. The fact that you implied you directly compared the SongTower to the Philharmonic's kind of tips the scales my way when I pointed out that you could have posted improper graphs, now doesn't it? Howaboutthat seems to think it was a jerky thing to do, but then we find out you are misleading us about the ST and Philly comparison, so...wink.gif

I didn't say I compared the Phil 3 and the ST directly. Me and Dennis listened to his monitor and Phil 3 and he showed me his towers and components he is going to use. The huge Salk Center Speaker was also there needing a cross over design. After looking all that, we chat in his kitchen and there were a pair of STs. After checking out and got amazed with all his huge speakers and designs, do you think I will be impressed with the ST? As you can see, I am extremely satisfied with what I have right now but I'm still looking what's out there. I will come back once the tower is ready and we will compare it directly with the ST. That meeting was on video so rest assured it did happen.smile.gifwink.gif
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post #733 of 736 Old 01-21-2013, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by vailvon View Post

I didn't say I compared the Phil 3 and the ST directly. Me and Dennis listened to his monitor and Phil 3 and he showed me his towers and components he is going to use. The huge Salk Center Speaker was also there needing a cross over design. After looking all that, we chat in his kitchen and there were a pair of STs. After checking out and got amazed with all his huge speakers and designs, do you think I will be impressed with the ST? As you can see, I am extremely satisfied with what I have right now but I'm still looking what's out there. I will come back once the tower is ready and we will compare it directly with the ST. That meeting was on video so rest assured it did happen.smile.gifwink.gif
We obviously have a different definition of comparison, and your claim was highly misleading if not a flat out lie. With that said, I'm glad you're happy with what you have and hope your second trip to Dennis' is worth while.

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post #734 of 736 Old 01-21-2013, 09:48 PM
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Back to me tongue.gif.

Nuance, thanks for the info and questions. Vailvon, thanks for confirming that you like the CM9s.
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Some questions for you:

- How big is your listening room?
- Will you cross over to subwoofers?
- Will this be a dual purpose HT and music system?
- What is the rest of your system comprised of?
- How loud do you listen?

Room: 14' x 26' but with no wall on the left front (opening to dining room) running 10'
Listening distance 14' from front wall
Medium live-ness (wood floors with area rug filling front of listening area)

Subwoofers: I seem to prefer more bass coming from the fronts at least compared with the combo of smaller high-pass speakers requiring cross over at 120-160Hz. Also philosophically I'd like to pass as much base through full-range fronts as possible. I will probably keep my Def Tech sub at least for a while to see if/how it integrates with more FR fronts.

60/40 music/HT 5.1 (but HT "sound" is not a top priority)

System: Currently have an older Yamaha RX-v750, Yamaha CD/DVD, PS3, but looking to eventually upgrade A/V to higher end mainstream, Anthem/Sherwood, or NAD etc. Probably will not get into separate power amps, boutique tube amps etc.

Volume: moderate everyday, generally < 90dB (partly because I'm not inspired to crank it) and rarely >100 dB

Other relevant info:
- In my space ideally speakers would be no more than 2' from front wall and 10' apart
- Smaller form factor is better (hence my interest in the PSB T2s - plus they are elegant looking (to me)). The CM9s would appear as monoliths in my space and are probably as big as I would consider.
- My current focus is on speakers with other components addressed later
- For HT I'd probably go with a reasonably matched center (but again form factor is important - not BIG, i.e. <7-8" high). The rears I'm not as concerned with and could play with later.
- Due to playing loud amplified guitars or bad genes my hearing above 8kHz is pretty much gone
- Music: mostly rock/prog/alt/electronica, some jazz

I'm in Phoenix AZ, and small audio dealers seem to be all but exinct, but I plan to do a lot of listening over the next few months to get a feel for what I like.

Thanks!
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post #735 of 736 Old 01-21-2013, 11:36 PM
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Back to me tongue.gif.

Nuance, thanks for the info and questions. Vailvon, thanks for confirming that you like the CM9s.
Room: 14' x 26' but with no wall on the left front (opening to dining room) running 10'
Listening distance 14' from front wall
Medium live-ness (wood floors with area rug filling front of listening area)

Subwoofers: I seem to prefer more bass coming from the fronts at least compared with the combo of smaller high-pass speakers requiring cross over at 120-160Hz. Also philosophically I'd like to pass as much base through full-range fronts as possible. I will probably keep my Def Tech sub at least for a while to see if/how it integrates with more FR fronts.

60/40 music/HT 5.1 (but HT "sound" is not a top priority)

System: Currently have an older Yamaha RX-v750, Yamaha CD/DVD, PS3, but looking to eventually upgrade A/V to higher end mainstream, Anthem/Sherwood, or NAD etc. Probably will not get into separate power amps, boutique tube amps etc.

Volume: moderate everyday, generally < 90dB (partly because I'm not inspired to crank it) and rarely >100 dB

Other relevant info:
- In my space ideally speakers would be no more than 2' from front wall and 10' apart
- Smaller form factor is better (hence my interest in the PSB T2s - plus they are elegant looking (to me)). The CM9s would appear as monoliths in my space and are probably as big as I would consider.
- My current focus is on speakers with other components addressed later
- For HT I'd probably go with a reasonably matched center (but again form factor is important - not BIG, i.e. <7-8" high). The rears I'm not as concerned with and could play with later.
- Due to playing loud amplified guitars or bad genes my hearing above 8kHz is pretty much gone
- Music: mostly rock/prog/alt/electronica, some jazz

I'm in Phoenix AZ, and small audio dealers seem to be all but exinct, but I plan to do a lot of listening over the next few months to get a feel for what I like.

Thanks!

I just posted in regards to a bedroom set-up I did using the CM series speakers. Namely the CM5 monitors and center.

I have Dynaudio Confidence in my living room but I have been more than impressed with these speakers and an AVR in my bedroom. I didn't think I would enjoy these as much as I have and I picked them as it was a quick and easy purchase at Magnolia. Got the bug to do a bedroom set-up and wanted to keep it easy and reasonable.

I think the CM9s would be a great choice. The CM5 monitors have been a nice surprise. The Denon AVR powers them fine but it seems at times they would like more. FYI I think there are two centers in the CM series. I bought the small guy two way but if you go with CM9 please consider a splurge on the larger center and the match is better to the CM9s. The smaller CM is nice but a bit congested with dialog at times. I'm a center whore and sing the praises of a better center and the improvements. Others feel differently. The CM5 has better bass than I expected and quality bass. No sub in bedroom. The CM9 must surely be better here.

Maybe sneak some Dynaudio's in there to test but I am certain you would enjoy the CM9 and this from a guy that never thought I would own B&W . The CM series is really nice.

Rick

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post #736 of 736 Old 01-25-2013, 11:29 AM
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When I get my SS8's I'd be happy to have you over. Hopefully it'll be within a year or so.smile.gif
SS8s are in a handful group of speakers that I really want to hear. I have heard neither, but I am certain Salk and Philharmonic Audio are very special. I realize not everyone has the same tastes so I no longer expect complete agreement on something so subjective. I just believe there is an extremely high probability that I will really like them. Good luck on attaining that goal!

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, DBP 2010, Samsung BD-C7900, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650. Sitting still CCM616, Kef...
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