Any speaker more neutral/"true-to-source" than B&W cm9/Diamond 804? - AVS Forum
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Old 05-08-2011, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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I have gone to numerous A/V stores and listened to many a different brand. I have listened to Def Tech, Canton, Paradigm, Magnepan, and B&W. I much preferred the B&W CM9s. They were laid back and VERY true-to-source. Unlike the Paradigms, which I felt were kind of in my face. I was wondering If there are any other speakers in the $0-$3500 (per speaker) price range that are as true-to-source or more true-to-source than the B&Ws?

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Old 05-08-2011, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkish54 View Post

I have gone to numerous A/V stores and listened to many a different brand. I have listened to Def Tech, Canton, Paradigm, Magnepan, and B&W. I much preferred the B&W CM9s. They were laid back and VERY true-to-source. Unlike the Paradigms, which I felt were kind of in my face. I was wondering If there are any other speakers in the $0-$3500 (per speaker) price range that are as true-to-source or more true-to-source than the B&Ws?

Vienna Acoustics Morart Grand?
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Old 05-08-2011, 12:21 PM
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Funny. Alot of reviews/people say the CM9's are too warm, colored and the highs sound compressed.

Have you listen to dynaudio?

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Old 05-08-2011, 12:23 PM
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Look for older "studio monitors". Not the current self-powered toys but the real-deal, ie. Fostex Lab Series/NF-1, Tannoy Gold, Altec 604, JBL 4320/4311/L100, etc. They were designed to be transparent and handle the dynamic range although some only did it to varying degrees of success.

You might even check out some of the current-era passive offerings. Check places like Sweetwater.

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Old 05-08-2011, 01:12 PM
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I listened to them too and XT8's and compared to numerous others they sounded neutral.
They were running on a Marantz but the dealer said on Rotel or Cambridge they are considerably better than on the Marantz.
He ran them from a Marantz player then Sonos and finally from my iphone and switched the speakers over all the time.
I'm far from being an expert and then asked him to cover the speakers and the same results to my ears.
My taste or are they better/ more neutral?
The dealer said that 80 % of the time he gets the same results even those more expensive and exquisite speakers are being used.
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Old 05-08-2011, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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l

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Old 05-08-2011, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

Funny. Alot of reviews/people say the CM9's are too warm, colored and the highs sound compressed.

Have you listen to dynaudio?

I have not listened to dynaudio

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Old 05-08-2011, 01:33 PM
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The CM8's sounded better than the Cm9's to me those and the XT8's sent music flying thrugh the room.
I am looking to start from scratch myself for 2.0 and need help aswell.
It's very hard and my head was exploding when I left the listening room after 2 hours of demo.
I'm a little wiser and prefer neutral but that was just from that experience. The journey goes on and a few trips to other dealers in the near future my well change my thinking again.
However if they don't have B&W's I won't even consider a demo because I can't compare with previous outings.
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Old 05-08-2011, 02:23 PM
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Warm and laid back is not natural or true-to-source.

Your preamp, amp, cables and speakers all color the sound in one way or another. It is just how you like your sound colored.

I don't like a warm system but I most definitely don't like a bright system.

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Old 05-08-2011, 02:53 PM
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How do you know the B&Ws are more "true-to-source?" Just get the ones that sound best to you, regardless of what people say or what the spec sheet say. Sound quality is almost as subjective as musical style so find your own taste and trust your ears.
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Old 05-08-2011, 06:30 PM
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Try to find and listen Thiel's. I think they are very transparent. But smaller models (which are in your price range) will need a sub for low frequencies.
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Old 05-08-2011, 06:52 PM
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If you can find these at a dealer in your area - than check them out
Boston VS336
http://www.bostonacoustics.com/-VS-3...aker-P239.aspx

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Old 05-08-2011, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNICRON-WMD View Post

Warm and laid back is not natural or true-to-source.

Your preamp, amp, cables and speakers all color the sound in one way or another. It is just how you like your sound colored.

I don't like a warm system but I most definitely don't like a bright system.

Cables should not color the sound I heard some cables manage it, by using odd designs.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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Old 05-08-2011, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkish54 View Post

I have gone to numerous A/V stores and listened to many a different brand. I have listened to Def Tech, Canton, Paradigm, Magnepan, and B&W. I much preferred the B&W CM9s. They were laid back and VERY true-to-source. Unlike the Paradigms, which I felt were kind of in my face. I was wondering If there are any other speakers in the $0-$3500 (per speaker) price range that are as true-to-source or more true-to-source than the B&Ws?

Sounds to me you like you need to pull the triger on the b&w's. They are well made and do sound very good. If you like them that's all that matters. Buy them.

Mike
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Old 05-09-2011, 02:24 AM
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Telling you which speaker sounds better than the other is like me trying to tell you how your wife likes it. No disrespect meant but only you and her would know what works for you.

It's still a shame that to this day people bash each other's opinions on speakers solely because they root for one camp. I feel as though it is safe to say that the only company that deserves bashing is Bose, but other than that audio is subjective.

But yes, the silkiness of those Diamond series speakers still leaves shivers running down my spine... they're quite magical. Even though the CM9GB's do not sport those tweeters, the Nautilus loaded aluminum tweeters are so damn good that honestly, you won't miss the Diamond's too much.
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Old 05-09-2011, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you all for posting and helping me out!!!! I've decided to start saving for a pair of B&W 804D, a pair of CM5, the ASW12CM sub, and the HTM Diamond Center. I will be powering them with the Onkyo TX-NR3008 and the Emotiva XPA-3!!!!

HAVE:

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Old 05-09-2011, 06:29 AM
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Danley's are some of the best out there. Not the prettiest though.

http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/

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Old 05-09-2011, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkish54 View Post

I have gone to numerous A/V stores and listened to many a different brand. I have listened to Def Tech, Canton, Paradigm, Magnepan, and B&W. I much preferred the B&W CM9s. They were laid back and VERY true-to-source. Unlike the Paradigms, which I felt were kind of in my face. I was wondering If there are any other speakers in the $0-$3500 (per speaker) price range that are as true-to-source or more true-to-source than the B&Ws?

I recommend you listen to Dynaudio speakers, as the goal of this company since their establishment is to create neutral speakers true to the original scores with the highest fidelity. After a few decades Dynaudio is now a world class top tier audiophile brand, producing one of the most natural, neutral and musical speakers. Below $3500 there are some really great choices from Dynaudio.

The other brands you mentioned here are also quite neutral except the Canton (I have recently auditioned several of them including the Reference 3.2 DC and they lean slightly towards the bright side). However these speakers may not sound good to you. Def Tech Mythos ST/STS are quite clinical and are not refined enough. Not sure what Magnepan models you listened to but their top models are very good to excellent.

The Wilson audio Sasha speakers are the other most neutral and natural speakers true to the original sources I have ever heard apart from the Dynaudio.

As you said the B&W CM9s are laid back ... how can they be true-to-source if they are so laid back? Any big deviation from the source is not true to the source. IMO they lack details and too slow to be true to the source.
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNICRON-WMD View Post

Warm and laid back is not natural or true-to-source.

Your preamp, amp, cables and speakers all color the sound in one way or another. It is just how you like your sound colored.

I don't like a warm system but I most definitely don't like a bright system.

I agree with you that being laid back is not natural or true-to-source. The effect of the amp/cable etc in coloring the system is not as large as that of the speakers. Very warm and laid back speakers can never be tuned back to neutrality with bright preamp/amp. The same is true for the very bright speakers.
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerstripe View Post

I agree with you that being laid back is not natural or true-to-source. The effect of the amp/cable etc in coloring the system is not as large as that of the speakers. Very warm and laid back speakers can never be tuned back to neutrality with bright preamp/amp. The same is true for the very bright speakers.

Very true. The main thing you hear is the speakers.

It really bothers me when people buy an $800 receiver and then try to buy 5.1 speakers for $500. For the best performance they would be much better off buying a $300 receiver and $1000 on speakers.

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Old 05-09-2011, 04:24 PM
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I would try out some Revels. Heard the F32s and thought they were awesome. As I understand it, Harman have some of the best testing and development facilities in the world and so their higher end speakers should be quite true to source if that's what you are after. Of course the Performa series is not very exciting to look at.
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Old 05-09-2011, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkish54 View Post

Thank you all for posting and helping me out!!!! I've decided to start saving for a pair of B&W 804D, a pair of CM5, the ASW12CM sub, and the HTM Diamond Center. I will be powering them with the Onkyo TX-NR3008 and the Emotiva XPA-3!!!!

Before you pull the trigger on the 804ds, give them an audition for at least 1 hours with instrument CDs. I found that B&W diamond speakers have incoherent mids and trebles - the diamond tweeter and the drivers sound too differently, and many audiophiles know it. The tweeter is transparent, bright, fast and gives you tons of details, yet the midrange drivers are slower, more relaxed and lacking details. Also the diamond speakers have the problem of over-emphasis on the sibilance - we don't consider B&W diamond speakers true to the source ...

Well not all people will agree on the above observations but you can find similar observations elsewhere too. If you can't tell the difference tonally between the tweeter and driver, pull the trigger on it. Or better still, bring your wife to audition them - in general women are more sensitive in hearing than men (although most audiophiles are male...)
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Old 05-09-2011, 04:41 PM
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Most B&Ws aren't true to source. If you want a neutral speaker check out Salk. The Salk Songtower is better than the 804D IMO and far less expensive.
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Old 05-09-2011, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I've listened to the CM9 and I really like it! I'm going to listen to the 804Ds on wed. I actually am only 18 so no wife lol and I can't try Salk the store is too far. Although, I really wanted to. I will be trying the Dyn's as soon as I can. Any recommendations as to which model is closest in price to the 804Ds?

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Old 05-09-2011, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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And again thank you all for helping out!!!!!!

HAVE:

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Old 05-09-2011, 05:32 PM
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Salk is an internet direct brand, they are not sold in stores. If you want to audition them you need to find a local owner (which is usually not hard if you live near a major city).
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Old 05-09-2011, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I could have sworn I found a place that had em...could b wrong. Must have been a different brand.

HAVE:

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Old 05-09-2011, 05:48 PM
 
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Of course I would always recommend focal... I like b&w, but found that the focals have more detailed highs. I think the tech in the speakers are far beyond anyone else I've heard of... But to be honest I'm a fanboy and my taste may vary from yours... They are def worth a listen at least though...
If you can afford the beryllium tweeters, they're amazing and any speaker that has them has hand made drivers.
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Old 05-09-2011, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkish54 View Post

I have not listened to dynaudio

then you need to listen to Dynaudio. i looked/auditioned the CM8s, then bought Dyn Excite X16s.

The Focus line and Contours would be the place to start, and perhaps the Confidence C1s

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Old 05-09-2011, 06:01 PM
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What about Tannoy definition DC8? I haven't listened them but I've heard they are very neutral.
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