need some new speakers but on a budget - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 05-11-2011, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay all a few years ago I bought a Sony 60" rear Projection LCD TV. When I did this in my av Station at the house I lost the space I needed and I sold my Klipsch Reference speakers front and rear and sub.

Since I also bought a DA 2300ES (right when they came out) it left me tight on cash, My A/V guy helped me out though not impressed and I went with a set of Paradigm Cinema 110 series. Music never sounded so bad.

Now we just bought a new house and setting up the media for it. I pretty sure Im going with a led/lcd 60" XBR and a DA 5600 ES which is is budgetted in on sell and trade of my existing equipment. Im also going to install a Sonos. But It leaves me low on cash for speakers. Im havent decided if I am going in wall or wall mounted for rear, but the fronts need to be on wall, wall mounted.

I was looking at the Defenitive Tech XTR 40's for thier size but I have read reviews basically stating they sound like crap ( no offense to anyone that has them or loves em). I havent heard them yet.

Im on a budget of about 2K Might be able to slip some more in but not much. They have to be wall mount and eye pleaseing for the wife she hates my A/V stuff more than she hates my Cars (in fact she made me sell my 51 Willy's Wagon when we bought this house the deal was I get to slightly upgrade the AV system)

Okay I guess point blank point me in some directions, I am not impressed with the sound of the Paradigms even those they make other speakers my wife and myself have different tastes in music as well. Think of the wife the likes mellow pop and R&B some old jazz as well, and myself well Im rock and roller with a hillbilly kicked in. You find me cranking Drive by Truckers, Social Distortion or the Clash while Im working on my cars. I guess thats why I liked the raw feeling I got from my Klipsch.

Thanks

Dave
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post #2 of 10 Old 05-14-2011, 11:52 AM
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You mention tv two times but you don't tell us if/how you listen to TV and films.

How big is the current space?

Paradigm makes great speakers, but he ones you bought are not for cranking movies and music.

Your Klipsch were super sensitive. The 110 probably requires three times as many Watts to get as loud! More watts than the speaker can take if trying to go real loud.

If your space is 2000 cubic feet or more, look for more efficient speakers and a great sub. Even if this takes more time, it's worth it, because you will have great speakers forever.
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post #3 of 10 Old 05-16-2011, 06:11 AM - Thread Starter
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TV films are all 90% of he time blue ray of HD broadcast.

Loud I am not worried about, its simple sound quality. The Paradigm didnt produce a sound I found quality in the cinema line for music. I never had a problem with film althogh my Klipsch did sound better.

Regardless I have decided what I am doing.

Looks like I am going with a DA Super Cube Subwoofer, not sure which model yet since it will be isolated in my Synergy enclosure.

Speakers I decide Rears are going to be Klipsch R-5650-S left and right (not going 7.1 staying 5.1) Fronts will be Klipsch KL 6502-THX.

Power will still be deliverewd by the Sony DA reciever/amp for now I will probably add a seperate amp later for the rears, and see about crossing the rear amp over to the front center and leaving the left and right powered by the Reciever.
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post #4 of 10 Old 05-17-2011, 06:51 AM
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Ok, I left out the part when talking about "loud" involving quality.

Picture an athlete scholar who is tasked with running while solving math problems. The speed he runs represents how loud the speakers will get, how efficient they are. His ability to do math, while under a given stress, represents audio quality of the sounds produced.

The scholar, and the 110 speaker, can perform much better loafing along, not stressed by running hard (higher volume). But when our weak scholar is tasked with sprinting, he starts losing concentration and he performs math poorly. Likewise the 110, even if it can reach the desired decibels, would be shown to produce distorted sound.

Another scholar athlete (Klipsch) is in better physical condition. He does pretty good at a walking pace, and he maintains all his mental faculties when sprinting a 400 or running a marathon.

Besides lack of distortion, there are number of other factors in play: like the directivity of the speakers.
If the space's interior is reflective, the Klipsch might sound better because it has a more narrow dispersion pattern and directs more sound at the listeners and less at your walls.
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post #5 of 10 Old 05-17-2011, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I have always been a fan of Klipsch but I am also willing to listen to other speakers. I have been impressed by many brands and disgusted by others.

One thing on the new house the room the AV sustem is in is fairly large.

28' wide 35' deep. The a Chefs, kithcen and nook all after the 35 feet so you can add another 12' to the end but thats not really veiwing area.

The first 15 feet of the room is catherdral cielings, then the ceilings drop to 14ft.

I need to make sure I can get the sound I need out to the vewing area. The main viewing area will be 12-15 feet from the TV, the L/R rear Klipsch will be at the 20' mark of the room.

BTW also I have moved away from the DA Super Cube and went to a Klipsch woofer.

I am worried about sound carrying over such a large expanse. How loud will it need to be to get the proper feel? etc. But I am on a budget as well.
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post #6 of 10 Old 10-04-2012, 03:40 PM
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I'm curious, did you get the 6502s? I'm thinking about a pair and wondering what you found.Are you satisfied with them for theater use? How about music?
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post #7 of 10 Old 10-05-2012, 06:05 AM - Thread Starter
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No I didnt get the super cube, Heck I didnt do any of the things planned because the wife came out with the desire for more hardwood floors, and the entrire stair banister remodel which cost $$$$.

Im just starting to shop again.

The only thing I did is put Klipsch KS 7800's in the rear wall for sound. I am still using my old Da 2300 ES and Paradigm stuff, But I didnt double down and expand and entire sonos system including 2 Play 3's and 2 Play 5's that I can port around where needed the Play 5's usually sit in the Garage and I can say I am fond of thier sound. They let it rip when I need it with no distortion and they are as close to my old Ref Klipsch as Possible but portable too!

Right now I have it set up and I am waiting for the new Sony Da 5800ES(think thats the model) Just released and is partnered with Control 4 so I get basic control 4 modes or buy a 400$ license and have a full control 4 system for all my av and "some" external lighting or thermostats not like if I bought the control 4 system box. But I can getthe 10" touch screen remote and the GUI displays on the TV.

Going with the new Sony XBR 65" since 60 is no longer available.

DA S2000 Super cube

2 front RF7 II's and a RC 64II center.

Thats the "idea" setup but it may change as I am working with a custom cabinet maker for my media system, The synergy rack is going and everything will be built or designed by us with the cabinent company. I have a few problems with what my wife wants and what I want but we are trying to settle the deference. I guess w will see by November because thats looking like D-Day if I can work everything around it.

I did check out the super cube set up, it was hooked into a full DA system the sound is actually good on the DA Speakers but still has that "produced quality to it. I was able to play with and tweak the sub with some of my own personal music and The sub sounded good was able to deliever the proper base I was looking for. Of course at the show room the setup was no where as large as my area to cover but was happy. Only big thing I wish I did was pre run wires in the wall for 7.1/7.2 sound before floors and base boards went down. Looks like too many new movies are hitting 7.2 or 11.1/2 these days with no option for 5.1. Wife would kill me If I tore the floors up again and ran the wires for 7.1/2 into the walls (actuall Just have to tear out the bas boards to run the wire.) Still going to look at it though.

If anyone has any suggestions on a different set up feel free to chime in, I havent bout anything but the rear Klipsch, So open to suggestions, but what everyone tells me best to stya with the same speaker through out for the best sound. Maybe true not sure.

Thanks

Dave
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post #8 of 10 Old 10-05-2012, 08:16 AM
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Unless you have to have the small size of the SuperCube, it does not perform nearly as well as some other 12" subs in the same price range. It will not have the SPL (unless you have a tiny room) to keep up with those Klipsch at higher volumes. And it does not have very significant low frequency extension. Def Tech's rating of a low end of 20hz does not mean that it's getting usable output down there. Research and ask questions on the AVS subwoofer forum and you'll find that SuperCubes are not recommended.

The HSU VTF-2 MK4 or the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus are far better performers. The fact that the S2000 sounded good to you in the showroom means that either of these two subs will really surprise you at what they can do for the HT experience.

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post #9 of 10 Old 10-05-2012, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Size is my problem.

If things go as palned I need a Front firing sub with a box 12 square or possible 14 square. Depth I can probably go to 17".

Both of those subs are Dwon firing so they won't work. This unit will be ina cabinent, the sub will be in the cabinent, opened in the rear 2" away from the wall so it has breathing room. But will be in the cabinent with the cabinenet on legs and in the dead center of a 28' wide room.

Trust me I have tried to get dual or sigal down firing in the corners but the wife won't have it. If I was single it would be a different story on everything but I have to make my comprimises.

I will look at the sub forum later today and maybe post there.

But I agree I want a larger woofer that the super cube but so far its the best I can come up with.

Dave
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post #10 of 10 Old 10-05-2012, 10:06 AM
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I understand. But if you can fight for a bigger size, it would be worth it. Every little bit will help in that size room.

The SVS SB12-NSD is a very good compact 12" woofer sealed sub (much better than the SuperCube) with very good output for its size down into the mid 20hz range. You only need a little more space to get it to fit. But you are right. You do need to leave some room for air to circulate around the amp in the back.

Here's an in-depth pro review: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/sb12-nsd-subwoofer

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