Cambridge Audio Minx Satellite Speakers and Home Theater Systems Discussion Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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Speakers > Cambridge Audio Minx Satellite Speakers and Home Theater Systems Discussion Thread
Perpendicular's Avatar Perpendicular 11:10 AM 05-29-2012
Wow, taichi4?! Nice Post!

Bazzy,

No I'm not disappointed nor tired of the Minx. They do sound great but I feel that they are missing a bit in the lower midrange. It always sounds to me like the drummer is too far back in the mix while the other band members are up front on the stage. I feel, my Swan M1's sound much better in many ways. Boy, do I miss using them! I did move the L&R Min 20's off of the tv/wall while keeping the center channel in place. After placing them on stands and moving them around for sound, I settled on placing them closer to the front wall than anticipated because of space. The Orbs always had the same problem. This is what tiny/small driver speakers will do. The conclusion is that no speaker sounds good on a wall but the smaller the driver, the more forgiving because it is utilizing less of the frequency band.

One thing I will say after living with both the Min 10 & 20. If the Min 20 didn't sound a bit better than the Min 10, I'd probably use the Min 10 all around except for, maybe, a Min 20 center. I really like the looks of the Min 10 better and prefer the one driver design. I think CA should have made the Min 20 a one driver speaker but with a larger driver than the Min 10.

Bazzy's Avatar Bazzy 01:29 PM 05-29-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post
Wow, taichi4?! Nice Post!

Bazzy,

No I'm not disappointed nor tired of the Minx. They do sound great but I feel that they are missing a bit in the lower midrange. It always sounds to me like the drummer is too far back in the mix while the other band members are up front on the stage. I feel, my Swan M1's sound much better in many ways. Boy, do I miss using them! I did move the L&R Min 20's off of the tv/wall while keeping the center channel in place. After placing them on stands and moving them around for sound, I settled on placing them closer to the front wall than anticipated because of space. The Orbs always had the same problem. This is what tiny/small driver speakers will do. The conclusion is that no speaker sounds good on a wall but the smaller the driver, the more forgiving because it is utilizing less of the frequency band.

One thing I will say after living with both the Min 10 & 20. If the Min 20 didn't sound a bit better than the Min 10, I'd probably use the Min 10 all around except for, maybe, a Min 20 center. I really like the looks of the Min 10 better and prefer the one driver design. I think CA should have made the Min 20 a one driver speaker but with a larger driver than the Min 10.
Hi,

Thanks Perp, nice to understand your viewpoint deeper! I was just reading the REL Q200E manual (PDF Attached) & it has a selector which states:

MODE SWITCH. Used to set phase* and to bypass crossover for Low Level input**.

Position 1 / Line: 0 degrees phase, crossover engaged low level input
Position 2 / LFE: 0 degrees phase, crossover bypassed for low level input
Position 3 / Line: 180 degrees phase, crossover engaged for low level input
Position 4 / LFE: 180 degrees phase, crossover bypassed for low level input
*PHASE SELECTION AFFECTS BOTH HI AND LO LEVEL INPUTS

**Crossover is always engaged for Hi level input regardless of mode switch position.


I wonder if I was to select either P2 or P4, will that disable the Sub's crossover completely & allow one to set a much higher setting of between 150hz-200hz that the Min's require? If so, I might consider the Min's seeing as they are supposed to be so good?

Having said that, I do really wonder not having been able to hear them properly (& only having a 2.5" driver as opposed to Orb's 3" one), how much better they really are? I suppose I am unsure if the Min's are very noticeably better or just marginally? You have had both & evaluated in depth so welcome your thoughts - I usually follow your advice!

Another thought I have had is to get Goldenear Supersat 3's for the L/C/R duties as they have received very glowing reviews & with much bigger drivers & more forgiving crossover settings, should have no problem integrating with the REL Subs. This would mean still having the various surround duties done by the Orbs & I am not sure how well that would work - what do you think?

Bazzy!

 

Q-Series-Manual.pdf 89.8642578125k . file
Attached: Q-Series-Manual.pdf (89.9 KB) 
JimWilson's Avatar JimWilson 01:38 PM 05-29-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

Having said that, I do really wonder not having been able to hear them properly (& only having a 2.5" driver as opposed to Orb's 3" one), how much better they really are? I suppose I am unsure if the Min's are very noticeably better or just marginally? You have had both & evaluated in depth so welcome your thoughts - I usually follow your advice!

I'm sure Jeffrey will chime in, but I can also answer this one as I have both the Min 10's and Orb's. Between the two I would take the Min 10's; the clarity and definition is much better in my opinion, something I can definitely hear. Both lack depth in the midrange though, so in that regard they're similar.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

Another thought I have had is to get Goldenear Supersat 3's for the L/C/R duties as they have received very glowing reviews & with much bigger drivers & more forgiving crossover settings, should have no problem integrating with the REL Subs. This would mean still having the various surround duties done by the Orbs & I am not sure how well that would work - what do you think?

GoldenEar are only available from dealers, so that's something to keep in mind. If you don't have one in your area you might have to journey far and wide to hear them.
Perpendicular's Avatar Perpendicular 01:42 PM 05-29-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

I'm sure Jeffrey will chime in...

Nuff said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

GoldenEar are only available from dealers, so that's something to keep in mind. If you don't have one in your area you might have to journey far and wide to hear them.

He live in another country altogether but I heard a while back that Goldenear will be expanding to Europe if they haven't already. With that in mind, I'd say, go for the SuperSat 3.
Bazzy's Avatar Bazzy 02:22 PM 05-29-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

I'm sure Jeffrey will chime in, but I can also answer this one as I have both the Min 10's and Orb's. Between the two I would take the Min 10's; the clarity and definition is much better in my opinion, something I can definitely hear. Both lack depth in the midrange though, so in that regard they're similar.

GoldenEar are only available from dealers, so that's something to keep in mind. If you don't have one in your area you might have to journey far and wide to hear them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

Nuff said.

He live in another country altogether but I heard a while back that Goldenear will be expanding to Europe if they haven't already. With that in mind, I'd say, go for the SuperSat 3.


Hi Jim & Perp!

Yes, sadly, I live in the land of death by taxes but my sister is in NJ right now with a couple of Goldenear dealers not to far away so I have a couple of days on which to decide!

I am not sure whether having the GE Supersat 3's for the front L/C/R would work well with the Orbs as surround duties - what do you think? I cannot afford to go all GE & there are space/installation considerations as well.

Can either of you guys comment on the REL crossover bypass setting questions I put earlier? If so, it will help me decide then if indeed I could go with Mins & REL together!

By the way, I have some info on an very small form factor speaker here in Europe that is apparently awesome sounding - been meaning you tell you about it as I feel it would be of deep interest to you but do not want to detract from this thread!

Bazzy!
Perpendicular's Avatar Perpendicular 12:16 AM 05-30-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

Can either of you guys comment on the REL crossover bypass setting questions I put earlier? If so, it will help me decide then if indeed I could go with Mins & REL together!

By the way, I have some info on an very small form factor speaker here in Europe that is apparently awesome sounding - been meaning you tell you about it as I feel it would be of deep interest to you but do not want to detract from this thread!

Regarding the Rel, I'll leave that for Jim to answer. He's the Sub Guru.

Regarding the small form factor speaker, send a PM to whomever.
Bazzy's Avatar Bazzy 05:05 AM 05-30-2012
Hi Again,

I did also ask REL yesterday & this is the reply I got - it sounds like it is possible to bypass the sub crossover but being anal. just to want check & confirm with you guys!

"The way to use these units are as such Run LFE only this way you bypass the crossover in the REL and the phase this allows your AV receiver to dictate the frequencies allow both REL and your speakers to work to maximum effect .
As for the gap in frequencies between the REL and the speakers this will not affect the sound quality as all speakers have an element of roll off."


Bazzy!
JimWilson's Avatar JimWilson 08:07 AM 05-30-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

By the way, I have some info on an very small form factor speaker here in Europe that is apparently awesome sounding - been meaning you tell you about it as I feel it would be of deep interest to you but do not want to detract from this thread!

I'd be interested in knowing who that is too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

"The way to use these units are as such Run LFE only this way you bypass the crossover in the REL and the phase this allows your AV receiver to dictate the frequencies allow both REL and your speakers to work to maximum effect.

The REL's do seem to require a connection style which few (any?) other subs do. If you can bypass it's crossover by using just the LFE input then that's what I would suggest as well. Using your receiver for that is the better alternative.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

As for the gap in frequencies between the REL and the speakers this will not affect the sound quality as all speakers have an element of roll off."[/i]

True; all speakers and subwoofers have an upper and lower roll off -- some steeper then others, depending upon several factors -- but I don't agree that a gap won't affect you. Any portion of the frequency range that's not being produced by some part of your speaker system will create a problem. There's invariably a portion of the frequency range that both your speakers and sub are playing, but there should never be any portion that neither is (audibly) producing.
Bazzy's Avatar Bazzy 09:17 AM 05-30-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

I'd be interested in knowing who that is too.

OK, I'll post here - it is the Elac 301.2/ 301.2XL- it has received some very positive comments & I thought it might just be what Perpendicular might be interested in! Loos very well made & a huge magnet for such a small speaker - a video on it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWPD-LVZfLc
http://www.elac.com/en/products/Line...01_2/index.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahBPT...hannel&list=UL

Jim, you might want to check out FAL Speakers - they are employ Full Range Drivers but are not so cheap! saw them & thought of you!

http://www.soleberry.net/falspeaker.html
http://www.fal.gr.jp/catalog/english/
http://www.soleberry.net/Supreme-C90EXW.pdf
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FAL-MiNi2-...ht_2718wt_1165
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FAL-MINI-S...ht_2730wt_1165

Sorry to detract from the official thread but thought the above might interest both of you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

The REL's do seem to require a connection style which few (any?) other subs do. If you can bypass it's crossover by using just the LFE input then that's what I would suggest as well. Using your receiver for that is the better alternative.

So do you think/feel that I can use the CA Min Sats with the Q200E's bypassed via LFE connection sucessfully by setting the necessary higher crossover setting on the AV Reciever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

True; all speakers and subwoofers have an upper and lower roll off -- some steeper then others, depending upon several factors -- but I don't agree that a gap won't affect you. Any portion of the frequency range that's not being produced by some part of your speaker system will create a problem. There's invariably a portion of the frequency range that both your speakers and sub are playing, but there should never be any portion that neither is (audibly) producing.

Jim, how big a problem do you foresee this to be? How will this gap affect things & how badly? I do not want to go out & buy a number Min Satellites only then for there to be noticeable compromises & just want to be super sure before parting with a large amount of money by my standards! REL also said:

"If you are using the LFE input , then this input is a through , as to say the REL filter and crossover are bypassed giving you a direct feed from your AV receiver to the REL - This will get around any issues you may have"

Would welcome advice - I trust you guys!!!

Bazzy!
Perpendicular's Avatar Perpendicular 10:49 AM 05-30-2012
Bazzy,

Regarding your Rel, if you don't have one already, I'd recommend you go out and purchase an SPL or Sound Level Meter. This way, you can measure the Subwoofer's frequency response on it's upper end and find out it's true limit in your particular room.
Perpendicular's Avatar Perpendicular 10:58 AM 05-30-2012
Bazzy,

I found the specs on your Q200E and would not recommend using it with the Minx or the Goldenear SuperSat 3. You would be better off with a satellite speaker that has a lower crossover point.
Bazzy's Avatar Bazzy 11:15 AM 05-30-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

Bazzy,

I found the specs on your Q200E and would not recommend using it with the Minx or the Goldenear SuperSat 3. You would be better off with a satellite speaker that has a lower crossover point.

Hi Perp!

Hope you liked the info on the Elac 301.2/ 301.2XL - what did you think of them - might they be an option for you?

As a novice, may I ask why you feel the REL Q200E might not be good with either the Mins or GE SS3's? Is the crossover not bypassed as previously stated by using the LFE connection or is it to due to poor spec/limited performance? REL Subs have a pretty good reputation over here!

I have been reading some guides & trying to understand as best I can & it seems many say the same thing - let the receiver do all the work by bypassing the sub crossover? If I do that as has been recommended, what may I ask is the potential issue with my REL's?

I have tried really hard to find a small form factor fully sealed sub with a 10" driver (ideally 12" cubed) alternative - the nearest I can find is this which has rave reviews here in the UK but I have been told it is almost identical to the REL in terms of performance:

http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/XLS200.htm

Bazzy!
Perpendicular's Avatar Perpendicular 12:14 PM 05-30-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

Hi Perp!

Hope you liked the info on the Elac 301.2/ 301.2XL - what did you think of them - might they be an option for you?

As a novice, may I ask why you feel the REL Q200E might not be good with either the Mins or GE SS3's? Is the crossover not bypassed as previously stated by using the LFE connection or is it to due to poor spec/limited performance? REL Subs have a pretty good reputation over here!

I have been reading some guides & trying to understand as best I can & it seems many say the same thing - let the receiver do all the work by bypassing the sub crossover? If I do that as has been recommended, what may I ask is the potential issue with my REL's?

No, sorry I have a lot going on right now and I'm trying to multi-task everything. If you're able to bypassed your Sub's crossover, that should work for any small satellite but the question I would want to know is, how well does that particular Sub sound when you are listening to it at 120, 150, 200 hz? It could sound decent for it's intended frequency range (< 106 hz) but could sound absolutely horrible when trying to push anything over that range. I'm surprised you are not bypassing your Sub's crossover already with your other speakers. How does it sound to you when set at 150 hz in your AVR when bypassing your Sub's crossover?

No, I haven't had time to check out the speakers you listed.
Bazzy's Avatar Bazzy 12:38 PM 05-30-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

No, sorry I have a lot going on right now and I'm trying to multi-task everything. If you're able to bypassed your Sub's crossover, that should work for any small satellite but the question I would want to know is, how well does that particular Sub sound when you are listening to it at 120, 150, 200 hz? It could sound decent for it's intended frequency range (< 106 hz) but could sound absolutely horrible when trying to push anything over that range. I'm surprised you are not bypassing your Sub's crossover already with your other speakers. How does it sound to you when set at 150 hz in your AVR when bypassing your Sub's crossover?

No, I haven't had time to check out the speakers you listed.

Hi Perp,

Many kind thanks - i now see what you mean & sorry to have taken up your busy time! I am staying away from home at the moment but the the REL sounded pretty good when hooked up to the Orbs mod-2 set up. Nothing seemed to sound particularly offensive!

Bazzy!
JimWilson's Avatar JimWilson 02:41 PM 05-30-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

OK, I'll post here - it is the Elac 301.2/ 301.2XL- it has received some very positive comments & I thought it might just be what Perpendicular might be interested in! Loos very well made & a huge magnet for such a small speaker

Ah yes, the Elac 301.2. I'm familair with that one. About a year ago I tried to get some of those, but they weren't available in the US. I'm not sure if I did find them whether I would have actually bought them, because Elac is very expensive, but I was definitely interested. I also tried to find the Mosscade HD-S11, which had a 3" coaxial driver and a 3" down-firing passive radiator in a 4.5" cube. Sadly, Mosscade went out of business.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

Jim, you might want to check out FAL Speakers - they are employ Full Range Drivers but are not so cheap! saw them & thought of you!

That's another one I know very well. Those flat diaphragm drivers have been on my radar for at least a year now, but they're not available in the US either (and, like the Elac, are very expensive). I would love to make a small satellite with those. You have good taste my friend.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

So do you think/feel that I can use the CA Min Sats with the Q200E's bypassed via LFE connection sucessfully by setting the necessary higher crossover setting on the AV Reciever?

Jim, how big a problem do you foresee this to be? How will this gap affect things & how badly? I do not want to go out & buy a number Min Satellites only then for there to be noticeable compromises & just want to be super sure before parting with a large amount of money by my standards! REL also said:

"If you are using the LFE input , then this input is a through , as to say the REL filter and crossover are bypassed giving you a direct feed from your AV receiver to the REL - This will get around any issues you may have"

Can you do it? Absolutely. Should you? Probably not.

Looking at the spec's for your sub it says the frequency response is 25Hz-100Hz. Since the Minx speakers -- either the Min 10 or 20 -- shouldn't be run lower then 150Hz that would leave a huge gap between your sub and satellites, one you would surely notice. So while you may be able to bypass the REL's crossover using the LFE input I think you would still have another problem to contend with, one that's related to physics, and something you simply can't overcome.
JimWilson's Avatar JimWilson 02:50 PM 05-30-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

I have tried really hard to find a small form factor fully sealed sub with a 10" driver (ideally 12" cubed) alternative - the nearest I can find is this which has rave reviews here in the UK but I have been told it is almost identical to the REL in terms of performance:

http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/XLS200.htm

Along with BK Electronics there's also MJ Acoustics. I reached out to both companies to see if they had any distributors in the US, but found that neither of them was very friendly or professional. YMMV, of course, but they both came across as arrogant and unhelpful.
Bazzy's Avatar Bazzy 07:13 PM 05-31-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Along with BK Electronics there's also MJ Acoustics. I reached out to both companies to see if they had any distributors in the US, but found that neither of them was very friendly or professional. YMMV, of course, but they both came across as arrogant and unhelpful.

Hi Jim,

Since BK Electric is small company that actually made subs for many of the bigger well established brands but since changed from OEM to internet direct they have become very well established & orders books seem consistently full which might be great for business but they have become very slow in delivering orders etc. You know how it goes - the more bigger & successful a company becomes the crappier the customer service standards become - especially in Britain!

Bazzy!
Perpendicular's Avatar Perpendicular 01:25 AM 06-05-2012
Today, I received my July edition of Home Theater magazine. Two things.....the CA advertisement for the Minx on the back page is now gone. Could it be because there's a review of Orb Audio's People's Choice speaker system? This is the same reviewer who reviewed the Minx system (link on first page). I think he's on to something...er.....on something.
JimWilson's Avatar JimWilson 08:19 AM 06-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

Today, I received my July edition of Home Theater magazine. Two things.....the CA advertisement for the Minx on the back page is now gone. Could it be because there's a review of Orb Audio's People's Choice speaker system? This is the same reviewer who reviewed the Minx system (link on first page). I think he's on to something...er.....on something.

They reviewed a 10 year old speaker system? Shrewd...
Perpendicular's Avatar Perpendicular 10:33 AM 06-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

They reviewed a 10 year old speaker system? Shrewd...

That's nothing. Wait until you read the review!
JimWilson's Avatar JimWilson 11:39 AM 06-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

That's nothing. Wait until you read the review!

Let me know when they post it. I can't wait to read it now.
Perpendicular's Avatar Perpendicular 12:16 PM 06-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

I can't wait to read it now.

No worries.....I sent you a copy in the mail. wink.gif
Bazzy's Avatar Bazzy 02:49 PM 06-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

No worries.....I sent you a copy in the mail. wink.gif

Hi!

Can I get a copy too please?

Bazzy!
Bazzy's Avatar Bazzy 03:04 PM 06-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post


Can you do it? Absolutely. Should you? Probably not.

Looking at the spec's for your sub it says the frequency response is 25Hz-100Hz. Since the Minx speakers -- either the Min 10 or 20 -- shouldn't be run lower then 150Hz that would leave a huge gap between your sub and satellites, one you would surely notice. So while you may be able to bypass the REL's crossover using the LFE input I think you would still have another problem to contend with, one that's related to physics, and something you simply can't overcome.

Hi Jim,

Very glad to have your input otherwise I would have just not questioned what the REL rep said! I also spoke to BK Electronics & they said of the XLS200 MKII:

"The frequency control range is 40 to 120Hz only but you can switch the filter out and open the frequency to 500Hz. If you are feeding the subwoofer from an AV Reciever then you may be able to set the sub out frequency to 150 to 200Hz"

What do you think of this statement & again, any issues they might not have highlighted? The new Min21 has a frequency range starting at 120Hz which is where the BK Sub control range ends so might this be a better match?

Bazzy!
JimWilson's Avatar JimWilson 07:14 PM 06-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

Hi Jim,
Very glad to have your input otherwise I would have just not questioned what the REL rep said! I also spoke to BK Electronics & they said of the XLS200 MKII:
"The frequency control range is 40 to 120Hz only but you can switch the filter out and open the frequency to 500Hz. If you are feeding the subwoofer from an AV Reciever then you may be able to set the sub out frequency to 150 to 200Hz"
What do you think of this statement & again, any issues they might not have highlighted? The new Min21 has a frequency range starting at 120Hz which is where the BK Sub control range ends so might this be a better match?
Bazzy!

The XLS200 is acoustic suspension (sealed), as is the Min 21. What that means is the roll-off at the extremes of their respective frequency ranges will be gradual, whereas bass reflex (ported) tend to be a bit more drastic. That's to your advantage since you would be running the Min 21's as low as they can go, while the sub would be going as high as it can reach. The point where they intersect -- 120 Hz in this case -- would be where each might struggle a little, but because their frequency response will be rolling off progressively, and essentially overlapping in a larger area, they would ultimately reinforce each other. The net result is that should mitigate any shortcomings at the crossover point.

If you can disable, or at least bypass, the XLS200's crossover entirely -- and just use the setting from your receiver -- that would be the better choice. Either way, it sounds as though you could make that setup work pretty effectively.
JimWilson's Avatar JimWilson 07:49 PM 06-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

That's nothing. Wait until you read the review!

Wow, unbelievable...
Perpendicular's Avatar Perpendicular 09:52 PM 06-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

"The frequency control range is 40 to 120Hz only but you can switch the filter out and open the frequency to 500Hz.

Wow...500 hz?? I wonder what the real -3 db + -6 db upper limit really is.
Bazzy's Avatar Bazzy 10:19 AM 06-07-2012
Hi Jim,

Once again, many thanks truly, I feel much reassured getting advice from both you & Jef - as you feel the Min21's & XLS200 MKII may match well together, I will now seriously consider this option - you guys have been invaluable! Just to show my thanks & appreciation, just thought you both might be interested (& sorry to detract from the thread again!) in this Etude 1 Speaker which uses two BMR Drivers & they look larger than 2.5"?

http://www.curvi-hifi.com/CML-Audio/Etude-Hifi/index.htm

Bazzy!
JimWilson's Avatar JimWilson 12:48 PM 06-07-2012
You're very welcome. I hope whatever you ultimately decide works out.

Thanks for the Etude speaker link. It looks interesting, but you're right; they don't list the driver size. They don't list much in the way of spec's, to be honest. That always makes me nervous.
taichi4's Avatar taichi4 04:25 PM 06-07-2012
Here's a little tidbit from someone who's heard the Etude:

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/curvi-hifi-great-things-to-come
Tags: Cambridge Audio , Cambridge Audio Minx Min 11 Speaker , Subwoofers , Cambridge Audio Minx Min 10 Satellite Speaker Black Each
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