Cambridge Audio Minx Satellite Speakers and Home Theater Systems Discussion Thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 1941 Old 06-16-2012, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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100 hz

That's right.....I said it! I placed my two subs on the floor behind my right channel Min 20 and have them stacked. I walked around the room while playing some music to hear the bass peaks and nulls. Originally, the two subs were in the corner pointing at the opposite wall on the left side of my seating position. After turning the top sub to the opposite (right) side of the bottom sub, I had better bass integration within the room. Actually, the smoothest spot was my listening position (sweet spot). A couple of days back, I turned the subs off and proceeded to listen with the Min 20's set to large (or full-range). I listened to frequencies from around 40-160 hz. As I listened, I could hear the speakers play down to 40 hz. This was with room correction in my AVR turned on. Last night, after getting my L&R Min 20's and two subs positioned, I listened to frequencies from 50-130 hz with the crossover in the AVR set at 50, 80 and 100 hz. Playing these frequencies were fine with all crossovers and I didn't hear any holes but the system sounded best at 80 & 100 hz. I listened to music in 2.0, 4.0 and 5.2 for several hours with the crossover set to 100 hz. Also, I played a couple of loud action movies. I do have a fear that listening below 80 hz may pose a problem with movies being too loud and blowing one or more of the speakers. I do listen at normal (and a bit above) volume level but never too loud and haven't experienced any sort of distortion problem what-so-ever.

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post #632 of 1941 Old 06-16-2012, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

This tells me there is a 24 db rolloff.
Does this particular Sub have a bypass or off setting on the crossover?

How do you get that, from that?

Also the Sub does come with a LFE so the AVR can take over the controls.
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post #633 of 1941 Old 06-16-2012, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

I pulled this off a Denon Thread here on AVS comparing the two AVR's. If you don't see anything on the list you'll use, the 2312 should be fine.
Stepping up from the 2312ci to the 3312ci adds:
* Dual HDMI outputs that can be active simultaneously
* Pre-outs for all channels
* Audyssey DSX with speaker terminals for all 11 speakers (however only 7 can be active at once)
* AL24+ processing on FL/FR channels for greater 2ch music fidelity
* A dedicated PHONO input with pre-amp stage
* HD Radio
* Ability to scale sources to 1080p/24
* Ability to cross-convert analog video signals (e.g. s-video in to component out)
* Enhanced multizone / CI capabilities:
--- 3 zones instead of 2
--- Composite video output to Zone 2
--- Ability to send digital 2.0 PCM audio (optical/coax only, not HDMI) to Zone 2/3
--- dual 12v trigger outs

I think the 2312 will more than suffice for my intermediate needs. Thanks for the info...
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post #634 of 1941 Old 06-16-2012, 03:12 PM
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In the future, I'm thinking of adding four Min 11 satellites and keeping a 20 for the CC. You darn Bazzy! mad.gifbiggrin.gif

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Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

100 hzI listened to frequencies from 50-130 hz with the crossover in the AVR set at 50, 80 and 100 hz. Playing these frequencies were fine with all crossovers and I didn't hear any holes but the system sounded best at 80 & 100 hz.

What? You mean that my darling REL Q200E's that only go up to 107Hz might actually now work well with the Min11/Min21 Satellites after all? You sir, are going to give me an mental hernia!


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post #635 of 1941 Old 06-16-2012, 03:28 PM
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Do you guys think this is too much, or will it suit it fine, the BIC PL-200:


Front-Firing 12" Long-Throw Powered Subwoofer with state-of-the-art BASH amplifier. Additional Features: Adjustable Crossover, adjustable volume control, automatic signal sensing, high level inputs, and both Dolby Pro Logic & Dolby Digital/DTS inputs.

Frequency Response: 22Hz - 200Hz, adjustable crossover & volume controls.
Sensitivity: 110dB @ 30Hz
Drivers: Heavy Duty 12" poly-injected woofer with high power magnet and long excursion surround.
Magnetic Shielding: NO
Gold-Plated Terminals:YES
Recommended Power: Built-in State-of-the-Art BASH Amplifier - 1000 Watts Dynamic Peak Output, 250 Watts RMS Continuous.
Impedance: 8 ohms
Dimensions: 17 1/4"H x 14 3/4"W x 19 1/2"D
Weight: 52 lbs. Each
Warranty: Extended 8 Years Parts & Labor on Driver, 2 Years on Amp & Associated Electronics.
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post #636 of 1941 Old 06-16-2012, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Troy Roop View Post

How do you get that, from that?
Also the Sub does come with a LFE so the AVR can take over the controls.

Well...a 1st order crossover has a 6 db rolloff. Do the math.

LFE input? You're all set then. The only way to tell if the particular Sub you choose is to your liking is to get it into your listening environment.

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post #637 of 1941 Old 06-16-2012, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

What? You mean that my darling REL Q200E's that only go up to 107Hz might actually now work well with the Min11/Min21 Satellites after all?

No, not for you! biggrin.gif

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post #638 of 1941 Old 06-16-2012, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Troy,

If you are serious about finding the perfect (or close to) sub to match the Minx speakers well in your price range, I would refer to Jim. He has a lot of testing behind him in the low budget sub area. Plus, he owns a pair of Minx Min 10's.

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post #639 of 1941 Old 06-16-2012, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

Hi,
I have done a lot of frustrating searching for a suitable sub for the Min Satellite Speakers & outside of the USA options are limited! So far in The USA, I have found the following "reasonably(?)" possible options:
1) Mirage MM8 & MM6
2) Emotiva X-Ref10 & XRef12
3) NHT B10-d & B12d
4) Most PSB Subwoofers (it seems)
5) Proficient GS10, GS6 & S10
6) Most Pinnacle models
7) EMPTek - all models
8) Earthquake Nova FF10?
9) Dynaudio Sub250
10) B&W AS610
11) Martin Logan Dynamo 700W
12) Anthony Gallo TR1-D & TR3-D (new models with beefier amps)
13) SVS SB12-NSD
There might of course be plenty of others! I am not sure if a subwoofer with a 12" Drive would work well with such small speakers - I notice on the Orb website they state it would probably not unless it was a very high quality one so maybe Jim ando/r Jeff could comment on this. Please bear in mind that my searches were based on a small form factor sub & very preferably sealed+front firing. Most of the above are out of the question for me as the cost to import & taxes & customs fees etc will rape me dry!
I do not know if there is XTZ in the USA but they have a couple of possibly suitable subs - the 99W10.16 & 99W12.16 (love to hear your opinion on these Jim!). Jeff, you wondered about the performance of the BK XLS200 MKII & if it might work well with the Min's considering the feedback they gave me - I have found an online review with the measurements & graphs - maybe Jim & yourself can have a detailed look & see what you think?
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests-archived/5751-bk-xls200-df-mk2.html
Now, if anyone is coming to London for the Olympics, who will be kind enough in bringing over a couple of X-Ref10's for me!!!
Bazzy!


Wow, thanks for that info, you have done a lot of work, many of those brands I have not heard of which would lead me to many more countless hours of research, did you decide on one? I sent Jim a PM hoping he can point in some directions as well. It is proving hard to find a reasonable priced sub that will hit the lows and the crossover point on the mins. Ugh getting frustrated!!!
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post #640 of 1941 Old 06-16-2012, 09:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Roop View Post

Wow, thanks for that info, you have done a lot of work, many of those brands I have not heard of which would lead me to many more countless hours of research, did you decide on one? I sent Jim a PM hoping he can point in some directions as well. It is proving hard to find a reasonable priced sub that will hit the lows and the crossover point on the mins. Ugh getting frustrated!!!

I'm not sure why you are getting frustrated when the perfect sub is there waiting for you to purchase it and staring you right in the keester. The Energy sub has a -3db at 36 hz, plays down to the mid 20 hz range, is more than adequate and can shake your foundation with movies at the same time. Besides, it's perfectly mated to the Minx speakers. How much more sub can you possibly need?

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post #641 of 1941 Old 06-17-2012, 11:23 AM
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I'm not sure why you are getting frustrated when the perfect sub is there waiting for you to purchase it and staring you right in the keester. The Energy sub has a -3db at 36 hz, plays down to the mid 20 hz range, is more than adequate and can shake your foundation with movies at the same time. Besides, it's perfectly mated to the Minx speakers. How much more sub can you possibly need?

Can you feel the bass with the 8" inch woofer? I am just trying to get the movie experience. My room is 15x18 with 10 door ceilings.
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post #642 of 1941 Old 06-17-2012, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Can you feel the bass with the 8" inch woofer? I am just trying to get the movie experience. My room is 15x18 with 10 door ceilings.

You may want to read or re-read this Thread to see what others are saying for another opinion. wink.gif

You do have a decent size (medium? Not sure what 10 door ceilings are - sorry for my ignorance) space. This sub may have an 8" driver but it's supported by not one, but two bass radiators of the same size. Trust me, you will feel the movie experience.

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post #643 of 1941 Old 06-17-2012, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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post #644 of 1941 Old 06-17-2012, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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post #645 of 1941 Old 06-17-2012, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

You may want to read or re-read this Thread to see what others are saying for another opinion. wink.gif
You do have a decent size (medium? Not sure what 10 door ceilings are - sorry for my ignorance) space. This sub may have an 8" driver but it's supported by not one, but two bass radiators of the same size. Trust me, you will feel the movie experience.

Sorry for the typo, I was thumbing from my iPhone, that was supposed to say 10 foot ceilings...Sorry
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post #646 of 1941 Old 06-17-2012, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for the typo, I was thumbing from my iPhone, that was supposed to say 10 foot ceilings...Sorry

LOL...for a minute there.......I thought you lived in a Cathedral! biggrin.gifwink.gif

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post #647 of 1941 Old 06-17-2012, 06:55 PM
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I thought so too. Westminxter Cathedral.
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post #648 of 1941 Old 06-18-2012, 01:33 PM
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Ok, I think I may have narrowed it down a little, possibly down to three, between the Energy s-10.3 per Jim's suggestions, Right now it is insanely cheap on Newegg, possibly allowing me to get two of them if the misses goes for it. Or the Energy ESW-M8 NA 1200-Watt Subwoofer per Perpendicular's suggestion and lastly, which is a great price on Amazon right now is the wireless Infinity 10" PSW310BK.

I would like to get some 10" bass out of the system if at all possible. But I like the idea of the passive radiating subs that Perpendicular turned me on to, which is why his 8" subs are still in the mix, they just make sense, use the air from the active sub to move the other two passives, you almost get double to sub I would think.

Below are the specs

Energy s-10.3

Model
Brand
Energy
Model
S10.3

Spec
Type
Subwoofer
Sold As
Each
Driver Units
Woofer: 10" Polypropylene ceramic/glass/mica deposit hybrid with ribbed elliptical surround
Power Rating
200 Watts continuous, 800 Watts dynamic peak
Frequency Response
21Hz-120Hz +/- 3dB
Remote Control
No
Dimensions & Weight
Overall Dimensions: 17.33" x 14.14" x 18.31"
Weight: 34 lbs.
Features
Features
System Type: Bass reflex with downward firing ports
Variable Low Pass Filter: 50Hz-110Hz @ 18dB/Octave
Variable Phase Control: -180 to +180(o), continuously variable
Power Mode Switch: Off/Auto/On
Inputs: Low level, stereo high level (speaker level)
Crossover Filter Switch: Active/Bypass
Max Driver Excursion: 1.57" peak-to-peak
Voice Coil Diameter: 1.5"
Finishes: Black or Shadow Silver
Ribbed Elliptical Surround woofers that create high efficiency, low distortion
A 200-watt internal amplifier for sonic accuracy and durability
Down-firing ports extend bass response

Energy ESW-M8 NA 1200-Watt Subwoofer:


Model
Brand
Energy
Model
ESW-M8
Spec
Type
Subwoofer
Sold As
Each
Driver Units
Active: 8" Black anodized aluminum cone with inverted Ribbed Elliptical Surround
Passive: 2 x 8" Black anodized aluminum cones with inverted Ribbed Elliptical Surround
Power Rating
1200 Watts
Frequency Response
36Hz-200Hz
Connectors
L + R Line in/Sub in
Dimensions & Weight
9" x 9" x 9" / 16.7 lbs.
Cabinet
High gloss black
Features
Features
8" black anodized aluminum cone woofer and two 8" passive radiators
Ribbed Elliptical Surrounds for pure music and movie effects
System Type: Single active, dual passive
Power Handling: Off / Auto / On
Variable Low Pass Filter: 50Hz-200Hz, bypass
Variable Phase Control: 0° - 360°
Max Driver Excursion: 102.6dB @ 30Hz, ground plane, 1m

wireless Infinity 10" PSW310BK

I could not find a good specs page so here is the link to amazon.


I would love to hear your thoughts!
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post #649 of 1941 Old 06-18-2012, 03:50 PM
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I would love to hear your thoughts!

Since you already know which way I would go I'll remain silent... wink.gif

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post #650 of 1941 Old 06-18-2012, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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The power rating on the Energy/Mirage Sub is actually 300 watts Continuous / 1200 Dynamic.

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post #651 of 1941 Old 06-18-2012, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Wireless Infinity 10" PSW310BK

Comparison Specifications

Internal amplifier output: 400W RMS/700W peak dynamic
Drivers: 10" CMMD active/dual 10" CMMD passive radiators
Crossover frequencies: 50-150Hz, 24 dB/octive, continuously adjustable
Frequency ranges: 32-150 Hz (-3dB)/28Hz (-6dB)
LFE input
2.4GHz wireless technology
Floorstanding


I'd say, go for it! This way you can go to Vann's directly and purchase the Minx speakers too. wink.gif

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post #652 of 1941 Old 06-18-2012, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I like the one with the Cherry top, and if I was in the market, I'd get two of them: http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/549999750/infinity-psw310w?s_c=site_search

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post #653 of 1941 Old 06-20-2012, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Last night, I watched the BD copy of "The Grey" with Liam Neeson. It contains a DTS-HD Master Audio track with some very intense loud scenes. Anyway, we all watched it at a very loud level with no distortion heard, clear as a bell and didn't blow any of the Satellites when set to 100 hz. So far, so good.

Also, I've been wanting to report that in my "Live" room with room calibration, the 8 kHz setting is at -1 db (surround right speaker) to +3.5 db. Some reviews have complained that the speakers (Min 10 & 20) contains too much energy in this region but apparently, it's dependent on the particular room.

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post #654 of 1941 Old 06-20-2012, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Last night, I watched the BD copy of "The Grey" with Liam Neeson. It contains a DTS-HD Master Audio track with some very intense loud scenes. Anyway, we all watched it at a very loud level with no distortion heard, clear as a bell and didn't blow any of the Satellites when set to 100 hz. So far, so good.

Also, I've been wanting to report that in my "Live" room with room calibration, the 8 kHz setting is at -1 db (surround right speaker) to +3.5 db. Some reviews have complained that the speakers (Min 10 & 20) contains too much energy in this region but apparently, it's dependent on the particular room.

I'm considering removing the grills again and re-running calibration. As previously stated, I'm torn betwwen the better sound without the grills and the aesthetics of the grills in place.

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post #655 of 1941 Old 06-20-2012, 08:00 PM
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Last night, I watched the BD copy of "The Grey" with Liam Neeson. It contains a DTS-HD Master Audio track with some very intense loud scenes. Anyway, we all watched it at a very loud level with no distortion heard, clear as a bell and didn't blow any of the Satellites when set to 100 hz. So far, so good.
Also, I've been wanting to report that in my "Live" room with room calibration, the 8 kHz setting is at -1 db (surround right speaker) to +3.5 db. Some reviews have complained that the speakers (Min 10 & 20) contains too much energy in this region but apparently, it's dependent on the particular room.
I'm considering removing the grills again and re-running calibration. As previously stated, I'm torn betwwen the better sound without the grills and the aesthetics of the grills in place.

Jeffrey,
Hi thanks for all your help to date. I have a question for you, if the speakers are rated as 130Hz-20kHz and you are running them at 100Hz, aren't you missing the 100Hz to 130Hz?

Min 20 speaker

Frequency Response: 130Hz-20kHz
Recommended amplifier power 25 - 200W *
Drive units: 2 x 2.25" BMR
Dimensions (H x W x D): 154 x78 x 85mm
(6.0 x 3.1 x 3.3")
Weight 0.75kg (1.65lbs)
Finishes: High gloss black
High gloss white
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post #656 of 1941 Old 06-20-2012, 08:39 PM
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I have a question for you, if the speakers are rated as 130Hz-20kHz and you are running them at 100Hz, aren't you missing the 100Hz to 130Hz?

Yes and no.

The 130Hz specification is the -3dB point, which is pretty much a standard when rating speakers and subs. However, a speaker can be "down" more then 3dB and still have audible output. In other words once the speakers output reaches -3dB it doesn't simply fall off a cliff and become inaudible, especially an acoustic suspension design (which tend to roll off a bit more gradually, whereas bass reflex roll off quite a lot quicker). It's not ideal to have a speaker crossed over over much below it's -3dB point, but it can still be done.

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post #657 of 1941 Old 06-20-2012, 10:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Two things I would like to add to Jim's comment. I don't hear any frequencies missing with a 100 hz crossover but do at anything below that setting. Even though I can hear them play frequencies down below this level when the speakers are set to "Large", without a Subwoofer, these frequencies are too low in level. I can only choose 100 or 150 hz due to my particular AVR but even if I was able to set the crossover to 120 hz, I'd still probably choose 100 hz based on minimum localization of the Subwoofer and it's positioning. 100 hz is fine with my particular Sub because there is an overlap of frequencies over that 100 hz crossover setting.

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post #658 of 1941 Old 06-21-2012, 06:28 PM
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Can one of your gents explain to me 130HZ -3dB a little more, please break it down lay mans style, thanks!
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post #659 of 1941 Old 06-21-2012, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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The best way I can explain this is, let's say you're listening to your AVR at -30 db (o db is reference) and you decide that it's a bit too loud. So, you turn it down -3 db. You end up with a -33 reading on your AVR display. It's pretty much a reduction in volume from full volume capability of that particular speaker's lowest frequency range.

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post #660 of 1941 Old 06-21-2012, 07:25 PM
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And -3 db at 100hz in one room will sound different in another acoustic environment, with reflection, reinforcement, and cancellation.
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