Cambridge Audio Minx Satellite Speakers and Home Theater Systems Discussion Thread - Page 61 - AVS Forum
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post #1801 of 1941 Old 01-13-2014, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

Between those three? I'd go for the Monitor Audio Apex. biggrin.gif

http://www.monitoraudiousa.com/products/apex/a10/


Hi,

As a Minx Owner & having listened to all of your choices, I have to agree with Jeff fully - The Apex are really excellent speakers & were my first choice had size not been a factor!

Bazzy!
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post #1802 of 1941 Old 01-13-2014, 06:57 PM
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Nice guys! They certainly look very nice, get great reviews and are certainly the right size,,, for me. But going to $4k from $1 - $1.2 just will NOT work for me. Good try though ;-)

Bazzy: since you have heard all of my choices which way would you go since I will not do the MA Apex's. With the CA & KEF I get a new sub (matched ?) and with the Para's I can use my current sub or get a new Para sub or SVS keeping it around $600.
I know it's subjective but I'd like to hear you opinion. Thanks
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post #1803 of 1941 Old 01-13-2014, 08:18 PM
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I forgot about the MA A10...mad.gif

My wallet thanks me for the lapse in memory though. As stand-up comedian said to me, ignorance is bliss...cool.gif

In the back of my mind, I'll be wondering how much better the A10 is compared to the Min21? At almost 3x the cost, one would think there should be a significant improvement in sound quality. The sad part of this hobby is the law of diminishing returns as one tries to pursue those last % in performance. Would like to listen to the A10 one day.

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post #1804 of 1941 Old 01-13-2014, 09:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MacNThorens View Post

Nice guys! They certainly look very nice, get great reviews and are certainly the right size,,, for me. But going to $4k from $1 - $1.2 just will NOT work for me. Good try though ;-)

I figured, since it's taking you so long to decide (what is it...over two years now?), you should have saved enough money for the MAA. tongue.gif

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post #1805 of 1941 Old 01-14-2014, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by MacNThorens View Post

Nice guys! They certainly look very nice, get great reviews and are certainly the right size,,, for me. But going to $4k from $1 - $1.2 just will NOT work for me. Good try though ;-)

Bazzy: since you have heard all of my choices which way would you go since I will not do the MA Apex's. With the CA & KEF I get a new sub (matched ?) and with the Para's I can use my current sub or get a new Para sub or SVS keeping it around $600.
I know it's subjective but I'd like to hear you opinion. Thanks


Hi,

Well for starters & as Jeff and many others have said, I would not get any of the factory supplied subs that come with the packages you mentioned. If you have a decent Paradigm sub, then it maybe best to keep it and put the extra savings made towards either better or more satellites. Just make sure it can go high enough - I am not sure as it is so difficult to get any definitive answers from Paradigm but I believe their subs may go up to 150Hz which is desirable.

Dues to size constraints, I wanted the smallest speakers I could get away with which did not have any rear ports & the Minx were just perfect in this regard as they are tiny. I also wanted to have more than the standard 5.1 set up & having larger speakers would have made things very difficult & visually cumbersome - basically I wanted as discreet as possible.

As for value for money, imho, the Minx win hands down as they are considerably cheaper than the others - in my country, most other options cost around 2.5 times more per satellite so that was a big factor.

The KEF T305 do sound very good indeed & being very flat, they are designed to be placed flat against a wall or the SQ suffers. Visually, they are very attractive but I was not impressed with the KEF T2 Sub. If considering the KEF's, I would only get the bigger T305 but being the top models, they will cost more. If this sort of form factor appeals to you, then also consider the very similar Monitor Audio Shadow Series which I have heard are even better than the KEF's but alas, cost even more.

I also love the Paradigm MilleniaOnes - I think they are some of the best very small form factor satellites around & they can be pushed quite hard but again, they cost a lot more than the Minx. Bear in mind they are rear ported.

A lot will depend on your room size & budget - for small to medium size rooms the Minx are ideal in terms of price/performance but I fear in bigger rooms, it might be wise to look at other options as well as the Mins are quite small. My advice if you cannot audition in person is to go for the biggest you can accommodate which I why Jeff & I recommended the Apex range.

Others to consider (depending on your budget & room size) are the Focal Domes, Dali Fazon, KEF E305 & new QAcoustic 7000i & Goldenear Supersat 3 Satellites amongst a few!

My opinions are just that of an amateur so hopefully the other more knowledgable folks here will correct or reinforce anything if needed & sorry if I may have confused matters!

Bazzy!
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post #1806 of 1941 Old 01-14-2014, 10:41 AM
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I finally ordered 7 MINX 21.

 

Has anyone though in using CA Aero 9 Subwoofer instead X300?

 

Aero 9:

10" 500W

21Hz - 200Hz

 

X300:

8" 300W

33 Hz - 200Hz

 

Or any other better subwoofer?

 

I don't have space or design "problems" with the sub.

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post #1807 of 1941 Old 01-14-2014, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

I figured, since it's taking you so long to decide (what is it...over two years now?), you should have saved enough money for the MAA. tongue.gif

Yea, You would think! Its just that I have sooooo many hobbies in addition to A/V! Cycling, Motorcycling, Trains just to name some of the more expensive ones. eek.gif

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Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

Hi,

Well for starters & as Jeff and many others have said, I would not get any of the factory supplied subs that come with the packages you mentioned. If you have a decent Paradigm sub, then it maybe best to keep it and put the extra savings made towards either better or more satellites. Just make sure it can go high enough - I am not sure as it is so difficult to get any definitive answers from Paradigm but I believe their subs may go up to 150Hz which is desirable.

(1.)

Dues to size constraints, I wanted the smallest speakers I could get away with which did not have any rear ports & the Minx were just perfect in this regard as they are tiny. I also wanted to have more than the standard 5.1 set up & having larger speakers would have made things very difficult & visually cumbersome - basically I wanted as discreet as possible.

As for value for money, imho, the Minx win hands down as they are considerably cheaper than the others - in my country, most other options cost around 2.5 times more per satellite so that was a big factor.

(2.)

The KEF T305 do sound very good indeed & being very flat, they are designed to be placed flat against a wall or the SQ suffers. Visually, they are very attractive but I was not impressed with the KEF T2 Sub. If considering the KEF's, I would only get the bigger T305 but being the top models, they will cost more. If this sort of form factor appeals to you, then also consider the very similar Monitor Audio Shadow Series which I have heard are even better than the KEF's but alas, cost even more.

(3.)

I also love the Paradigm MilleniaOnes - I think they are some of the best very small form factor satellites around & they can be pushed quite hard but again, they cost a lot more than the Minx. Bear in mind they are rear ported.

A lot will depend on your room size & budget - for small to medium size rooms the Minx are ideal in terms of price/performance but I fear in bigger rooms, it might be wise to look at other options as well as the Mins are quite small. My advice if you cannot audition in person is to go for the biggest you can accommodate which I why Jeff & I recommended the Apex range.

(4.)

Others to consider (depending on your budget & room size) are the Focal Domes, Dali Fazon, KEF E305 & new QAcoustic 7000i & Goldenear Supersat 3 Satellites amongst a few!

(5.)

My opinions are just that of an amateur so hopefully the other more knowledgable folks here will correct or reinforce anything if needed & sorry if I may have confused matters!

(6.)

Bazzy!

1. I have a Paradigm PS1000, sub Cut-Off dial 50-150Hz, Phase Alignment 0-180.

2. Well as I said I can get the Minx S325 complete system for $1100, The KEF E305 complete system for $1000, and 5 Milleniaone's for about $995...all USD$.
So for the extra $3K I can do other things and I do not think I will be giving up much not getting the MAA's. But I could be wrong....it's happened in the past!

3. I totally agree on the T2 sub, even the dealer said that he had a couple of returns for faulty units. I really liked the T series but I won't do those. I am more interested in the new E series/305 set-up.

4. Well as far as room size goes 15' X 15' X 9' ceilings, and the room opens up on one end to the kitchen and dinning room, other side has stairs going up to the 3rd foor. I am glad you raised the point of pushing the Para's hard. When I listen to my vinyl I like it somewhat loud.....and I do a mix of 60/40 movies to music.

5. I have listened to the Focal Domes (same place had the Domes, Milleniaons's and the Minx 10's, set-up. The 21's were not out at the time. I liked the Para's best... and it really wasn't fair for the Minx's...but they did a stand up job even being a littke out-classed IMHO).
I have also listened to most of the Goldenear products and I liked them but $$$ comes into play again. I would really liketo hear the E305/301's (not in stock anywhere here) and 21's in person but that may not be possible at this tiem.

6. No worries!!! I appreciate any input that I get! As stated "I wish the BMR's were bigger", 4" would be nice. cool.gif
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post #1808 of 1941 Old 01-14-2014, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by festuc View Post

I finally ordered 7 MINX 21.

Has anyone though in using CA Aero 9 Subwoofer instead X300?

Aero 9:
10" 500W
21Hz - 200Hz

X300:
8" 300W
33 Hz - 200Hz

Or any other better subwoofer?

I don't have space or design "problems" with the sub.

Hi,

Plenty of choices! SVS SB1000/PB1000 or SB2000/PB2000 would be excellent and great bang for the buck! I think you can do better than the Aero Sub - I had the Minx X500 sub & I think the Aero Sub is inferior!

Bazzy!
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post #1809 of 1941 Old 01-14-2014, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by festuc View Post

I finally ordered 7 MINX 21.

Has anyone though in using CA Aero 9 Subwoofer instead X300?

Aero 9:
10" 500W
21Hz - 200Hz

X300:
8" 300W
33 Hz - 200Hz

Or any other better subwoofer?

I don't have space or design "problems" with the sub.

Woo!

I'll agree with Bazzy there. If you looking at the X300, then you should probably just step up to the SVS. The SB1000 is a very compact sub at 13 inches cubed which is just slight larger than the X300 which is 12.4" x 10.5" x 11" so you're not really saving any space if that's one of the issues. Plus the SB1000 is a better sub and costs less than the X300 (unless you live outside the US).
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post #1810 of 1941 Old 01-14-2014, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacNThorens View Post

No worries!!! I appreciate any input that I get! As stated "I wish the BMR's were bigger", 4" would be nice. cool.gif

If there was a Minx speaker that contained 4" drivers, they would not be good enough and you would not be able to afford them. tongue.gif

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post #1811 of 1941 Old 01-14-2014, 03:12 PM
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If there was a Minx speaker that contained 4" drivers, they would not be good enough and you would not be able to afford them. tongue.gif

Say you. LOL I would wait another 2 years and sell ............. 2 of my other hobbies. :-)>
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post #1812 of 1941 Old 01-15-2014, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ien2 View Post


Woo!

I'll agree with Bazzy there. If you looking at the X300, then you should probably just step up to the SVS. The SB1000 is a very compact sub at 13 inches cubed which is just slight larger than the X300 which is 12.4" x 10.5" x 11" so you're not really saving any space if that's one of the issues. Plus the SB1000 is a better sub and costs less than the X300 (unless you live outside the US).


I'm in Spain. :-)

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post #1813 of 1941 Old 01-15-2014, 01:20 AM
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I'm in Spain. :-)

Hehehe, well in that case I don't know, I haven't seen the Aero's so between the two I couldn't advise. There's an SVS dealer in Portugal, just take a road trip over to them smile.gif (with my luck you're probably over in the Barcelona region though tongue.gif).
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post #1814 of 1941 Old 01-15-2014, 11:18 AM
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Yes, in a small room compromises are necessary and can be severe, as this example illustrates.

 

I wanted to replace an old 2.1 in a small (9 x 11) room. Primary uses are classical music (mainly FM, some CD) with movies secondary.  The system need not go loud.  The goals/constraints were:

  -  Decent 3.1 sound (room layout makes 5.1 impossible) from a system that was

  -  Very compact, very simple, dimensionally very shallow, very clean visually (on or off, it's always there), and

  -  Low power draw/heat generation (in summer the room can get hot).

Listening positions are a sofa about 7 ft from a TV and at a desk well off axis.

 

Thanks to this forum and especially Perpendicular, the speakers eventually became Min 21s.

 

The first attempt was the Yamaha YHT-S401 soundbar, which combines the FM/amp/sub in one small, shallow box.  While a huge visual improvement over the old 2.1, the sound was only a little bit better.  So after digesting the posts on this forum, the speaker bar was replaced by 3 Min 21s (which drive almost as easily as the bar), with the crossover set to 150 Hz (but my old ears can't hear much difference between 150 and 120).

 

The end result is shown in the pic. Wiring is very simple, just 3 HDMIs (cable box and disk box to Yamaha, Yamaha to TV). The TV cabinet is very shallow, protruding less than 17 inches from the wall (in a small narrow room, inches matter).  As one would expect, the sub is very limited: small and only 100 W.  Using a test disc, to the ear the output is substantial at 50 Hz, down some at 40, barely present at 32, and gone at 20.  Off-axis music listening at the desk to the right is surprisingly good; I had hoped that would be the case based on the posts in this forum.  It's way far from top-of-the-line, but I can listen happily all day (maybe old ears help here).

 

So, thanks again to this forum for triggering a good speaker choice.  Min 21s can make even a very minimalist, low-end system sound pretty O.K.  Even with the grilles on.

 

 

   

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post #1815 of 1941 Old 01-15-2014, 12:56 PM
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Glad to hear that you are really pleased with them. I'm sure, JEFFREY will also be very happy that he got to help another person! He really enjoys that.
Happy listening!
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post #1816 of 1941 Old 01-15-2014, 10:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I bet he does...I mean I do! biggrin.gif

Very nice! I find the Min 21 to sound best in the 140-150 Hz crossover range. Why do you feel you can't add two extra speakers? If you can't place them toward the ceiling on the top part of each wall, you can use the ceiling. smile.gif

btw, you look cozy on your couch. cool.gif

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post #1817 of 1941 Old 01-16-2014, 09:13 AM
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I suppose I could add 2 more speakers but window, door, and power outlet locations would make it very difficult.  And mine isn't the only vote.  I should have said "room layout and other constraints makes 5.1 impossible."

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post #1818 of 1941 Old 01-16-2014, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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If you were a die-hard like me, you'd stop looking for excuses and find a way. tongue.gif

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post #1819 of 1941 Old 01-17-2014, 03:48 AM
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Just received the MINX21's. Right now the sound is a little bit better than the BA Soundware XS but they fill a lot more the room.

 

Now time to break in. Is it better to do that without the grills?

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post #1820 of 1941 Old 01-22-2014, 07:21 AM
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That's a sweet setup!

Random question - how do you find the movie you want to watch or the book you want to read without flipping through them all?
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post #1821 of 1941 Old 01-22-2014, 12:39 PM
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I'm psychic.

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post #1822 of 1941 Old 01-25-2014, 03:08 AM
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First SONY STR-DN840 DCAC calibration.

 

Subwoofer volume at mid-point and crossover frequency at maximum (according to sony manual; don’t know if that is the correct way).

 

Front: 140Hz

Center: 180Hz

Surround: 120Hz

Front High: 130Hz

 

I have changed the center for the front high speaker and redone the test but still reads 180 Hz for the center.

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post #1823 of 1941 Old 01-27-2014, 12:02 PM
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First SONY STR-DN840 DCAC calibration.

 

Subwoofer volume at mid-point and crossover frequency at maximum (according to sony manual; don’t know if that is the correct way).

 

Front: 140Hz

Center: 180Hz

Surround: 120Hz

Front High: 130Hz

 

I have changed the center for the front high speaker and redone the test but still reads 180 Hz for the center.


Sublevel with DCAC seems strange for me (it's give me the opposite results I was expecting).

 

If the sub is pointing the wall --> +1,5dB (opposite direction of me).

If the sub is pointing left --> +4.5 dB

If the sub is pointing me (the sofa) --> +7.5 dB

 

So it seems it's best to leave it pointing the wall.... (Neighbors?, but level is lower)

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post #1824 of 1941 Old 01-27-2014, 02:24 PM
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Sublevel with DCAC seems strange for me (it's give me the opposite results I was expecting).

If the sub is pointing the wall --> +1,5dB (opposite direction of me).
If the sub is pointing left --> +4.5 dB
If the sub is pointing me (the sofa) --> +7.5 dB

So it seems it's best to leave it pointing the wall.... (Neighbors?, but level is lower)

Hey,

It has to do with how the sub pressurizes the room. I found a good explaination awhile ago but didn't save the location frown.gif , it had a couple of diagrams of what's going on, here's a hastily drawn recreation of one of them biggrin.gif



As you can can, there's alternating highs and lows propagating across the room, depending on position and orientation of the sub you'll get different levels at any particular spot. If you were to point the sub at the sofa again but alter the distance you'll find that the 7.5 will change. This is the reason why a lot of people go with multiple subs, it really isn't to get more bass, but to even out the response throughout the room. You find that for one sub, usually the best place to position it is in a corner facing into the room at a 45 degree angle. That way not only do you have the waves going front to back, but from one side to the other covering more of the room. It's not always the best place though, it really depends on room acoustics.

If you aren't limited to a specific spot for your sub, I'd suggestion you read up on the subwoofer crawl to help with positioning. Basically you are putting the sub where you're ears would be and then you crawl around on the floor to see where it sounds best. After you decide which position you can live with most, you put the sub there with the face of the sub at the point where your ears were, even a few inches can make a difference. There's helpful videos and posts out there which will explain it better.

Positioning and orientation of a sub is important...not as critical as your main speakers but worth at least some effort to find an optimal place for it if you can. Play around some, be sure to listen to music you are familiar with and use your ears, DCAC won't tell you if a spot favors a very specific frequency range making it sound "boomy".
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post #1825 of 1941 Old 01-28-2014, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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^ Excellent! It's about boundary effect. smile.gif

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post #1826 of 1941 Old 01-31-2014, 12:19 AM
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Thanks for the two reply.

 

Searching and reading about the Boundary Effect, I still don't know if it's something that I want or it's better to avoid it and amplify a little more. (+dB),

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post #1827 of 1941 Old 01-31-2014, 03:27 AM
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You really can't avoid it. If you get far enough from a wall to lessen it, then you run into the Allison Effect. Simply, it states that if a sub is 1/4th of a wavelength from a wall, it's SPL is drastically reduced at that wavelength (lessening in effect as you go up or down) and if it's 1/2, it is amplified. It's far easier to deal with the boundary effect. Play around with the position some, just a few inches/centimeters can make a lot of difference.
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post #1828 of 1941 Old 01-31-2014, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
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You really can't avoid it. If you get far enough from a wall to lessen it, then you run into the Allison Effect. Simply, it states that if a sub is 1/4th of a wavelength from a wall, it's SPL is drastically reduced at that wavelength and if it's 1/2, it is amplified. It's far easier to deal with the boundary effect. Play around with the position some, just a few inches/centimeters can make a lot of difference.

Thanks again for the reply.

 

The fact is that I can't move to much the subwoofer but can rotate it to change the "firing" direction.

 

~~If the sub is pointing the wall --> +1,5dB (opposite direction of me). If the sub is pointing left --> +4.5 dB If the sub is pointing me (the sofa) --> +7.5 dB

 

Which do you think it's the best orientation to choose?

 

Thanks.

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post #1829 of 1941 Old 01-31-2014, 11:21 AM
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Which ever one sounds best to you would be the best answer. As I mentioned above, room acoustics can favor certain frequencies (or hinder) so I'd pick whichever position sounds the fullest/even in the bass region (with DCAC on). If the three positions sound pretty much the same, then I'd face it towards the wall so you don't have to boost it as much, this will make for happier neighbors smile.gif
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post #1830 of 1941 Old 02-06-2014, 05:18 PM
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festuc,

I would suggest learning to use the free software called Room Equalization Wizard (REW) and a calibrated microphone (costs about $100) to measure your room response based on your seating position, speaker placement and sub placement. The software has a room simulator where you can enter in the dimensions of your room, place your left and right speakers and main listening position as well as the sub to get an approximate bass response. It's fun to play some what if scenarios on the screen and see the change in bass response without have to physically move a 100 lb sub, playing test tones, measuring and listening. It saved a lot of effort for me.

There is a thread call Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1449924/simplified-rew-setup-and-use-usb-mic-hdmi-connection-including-measurement-techniques-and-how-to-interpret-graphs

Please download the step by step guide done by AustinJerry, Keith, et al. and follow the steps. I've just started down this rabbit hole, learning a lot along the way and enjoying the experience. smile.gif

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