Cambridge Audio Minx Satellite Speakers and Home Theater Systems Discussion Thread - Page 68 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2011 of 2040 Old 02-05-2015, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McIntosh View Post
I have 5 minx 20 speakers and a Mirage sub. I just got a new Onkyo AVR to replace an old Denon that died. This receiver does not allow the sub's crossover setting to be set by the receiver, so what should I set the crossover to on my Mirage 8" sub? Audyssey set the crossover of the speakers at 150 - does that sound about right? Thanks for the help!
Hi,

May I ask, what is the model no: of the new Onkyo AVR that you have? I ask, as being a new/newer model, I am a little surprised that it does not offer you the option of of setting the sub's crossover on it, especially since it seems to have Audyssey? Maybe others more in the know can chime in in this!

I would set the X/O at the back on the sub at 150 as Audyssey suggests - it seems about right although if the Mirage sub settings go higher, play around between 150 & possibly a little higher if need be.

Bazzy,
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post #2012 of 2040 Old 02-05-2015, 03:49 PM
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It is an Onkyo TX-NR616. It came out in mid 2012 so it is a little older. This is kind of an in-betweener purchase. I wanted to get a receiver that is full 4k ready, like a Denon X4100 but can't justify the cost when there isn't much if anything using this, and I don't have a 4k TV yet. So, I found this one on a closeout and I had been wanting to try an Onkyo, so this receiver fell in my lap. I have to say it's a pretty big step up from the Denon 988 I had in terms of sound and picture quality. Pretty happy with it so far.
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post #2013 of 2040 Old 02-15-2015, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Huh?! What did I miss? By the look of things, nothing.

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post #2014 of 2040 Old 03-03-2015, 11:37 PM
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Onkyo TX-NR616 Crossover Frequency

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McIntosh View Post
It is an Onkyo TX-NR616. It came out in mid 2012 so it is a little older. This is kind of an in-betweener purchase. I wanted to get a receiver that is full 4k ready, like a Denon X4100 but can't justify the cost when there isn't much if anything using this, and I don't have a 4k TV yet. So, I found this one on a closeout and I had been wanting to try an Onkyo, so this receiver fell in my lap. I have to say it's a pretty big step up from the Denon 988 I had in terms of sound and picture quality. Pretty happy with it so far.
AVRs have had adjustable crossover frequencies since the 1990s, maybe earlier.

Here's an excerpt from the manual, page En-34: "With the supplied calibrated microphone, Audyssey 2EQ® automatically determines the number of speakers connected, their size for purposes of bass management, optimum crossover frequencies to the subwoofer (if present), and distances from the primary listening position. Audyssey 2EQ then removes the distortion caused by room acoustics by capturing room acoustical problems over the listening area in both the frequency and time domain." If you don't want to do the Audyssey setup, you should be able to set the speaker setup (page En-54), set subwoofer to Yes, and speaker crossover from "full" to 120 or 150 Hz.
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post #2015 of 2040 Old 03-04-2015, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McIntosh View Post
I have 5 minx 20 speakers and a Mirage sub. I just got a new Onkyo AVR to replace an old Denon that died. This receiver does not allow the sub's crossover setting to be set by the receiver, so what should I set the crossover to on my Mirage 8" sub? Audyssey set the crossover of the speakers at 150 - does that sound about right? Thanks for the help!
The Minx Min 21's (similar to your 20s, though slightly better at the low end) volume drops precipitously below 200 Hz, and by 100 Hz it's down about 12 dB, which is a little less than half the volume, but definitely audible. The smoothest transition would be at 200Hz, but that's not ideal: most subs do poorly that high and the sub's location would be very obvious. A better balanced crossover frequency to 100 or 120 Hz, preferably 100 because at 120 Hz you can localize the subwoofer.

Experts, correct me if I'm wrong but IMO, the combination of the speaker's natural dropoff and the crossover's cut would create a sheer dropoff in the speakers' volume below the crossover frequency, so when I get my Min 11s, I'm planning on setting the speakers to "full" to preserve what bass the speakers produce, and simply set the subwoofer's crossover to 100 or 120. Will I have a valley between 100 and 150? Probably. I'll play with it when I get them.
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post #2016 of 2040 Old 03-04-2015, 06:37 AM
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Thanks for that great information! I did run Audyssey and am using those settings. So if Audyssey set the speaker crossover at 150 am I right to set the crossover on the back of the sub to 150 or do I disable the crossover on the sub?
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post #2017 of 2040 Old 03-04-2015, 02:18 PM
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Disable the crossover on the sub if you are using bass management on the AVR.

The F3 of the Min21(20) is actually ~120Hz, the Min11(10) is probably closer to 150Hz. Don't have the speakers set to large/full, you'll probably end up damaging them at moderately high levels, keep them as small.

If Audyssey likes the 150Hz setting I'd say go with it. Mine's set to 120 but I'm getting a bit of a boost from the room, Audyssey for me says 100.

David, it's better to have localization than to have a valley right in the 100's, if you sub can do 150 then you should let it.
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post #2018 of 2040 Old 03-04-2015, 04:08 PM
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You guys are so much help and I'm sorry to be dense. So if I ran Audyssey and I'm using the 150 crossover there, does that mean i'm letting the receiver manage the crossover and I should disable the crossover on the sub? I think that's what you're saying but I need it spelled out. Thank you!
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post #2019 of 2040 Old 03-04-2015, 05:27 PM
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Yes, the AVR will handle the sub too so there's no need for the sub to use it's own.

I think I may have misspoke before, now that I think on more I believe CA uses -6dB instead of -3dB for their frequency response...or at least they have on some stuff. I know I've seen 120Hz as the f3 other places for the 20/21 but that may not be correct. Even so, the f3 won't be that much higher.
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post #2020 of 2040 Old 03-07-2015, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree with David. The Minx 20/21 sound best at a 200 Hz crossover setting but this is not best with a Sub/Sat system. So, it is best to keep the crossover at 150 Hz max. I've run so many tests with the Min 10 and 20/21 which I own (well, not the 10 anymore) and find any setting below about 140 Hz to be detrimental to the sound of the system. Also, with these speakers using the higher than normal crossover settings, it is best to keep the sub(s) on the front wall between L&R.

As ien2 stated, always disable your subwoofer or, if that's not possible, turn the crossover up to the highest setting before running room correction/bass mgmt on the AVR or Pre-Pro.
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post #2021 of 2040 Old 03-07-2015, 04:46 PM
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Hi All,

Has anyone tried/compared the new Min12/Min22 models yet? I was just curious as to how they perform compared to both the older models - not that I will be upgrading - did that once already!

Bazzy!
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post #2022 of 2040 Old 03-07-2015, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post
Hi All,

Has anyone tried/compared the new Min12/Min22 models yet? I was just curious as to how they perform compared to both the older models - not that I will be upgrading - did that once already!

Bazzy!
Hi Bazzy!

As far as I can tell, the new models are not available in North America at this time. I'm sure they're coming soon. Though, they are available in Europe. I feel CA dropped the ball by not giving us a satellite speaker that would play below 100 Hz. It's like they keep updating an outdated model.

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post #2023 of 2040 Old 03-08-2015, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidahn View Post
The Minx Min 21's (similar to your 20s, though slightly better at the low end) volume drops precipitously below 200 Hz, and by 100 Hz it's down about 12 dB, which is a little less than half the volume, but definitely audible. The smoothest transition would be at 200Hz, but that's not ideal: most subs do poorly that high and the sub's location would be very obvious. A better balanced crossover frequency to 100 or 120 Hz, preferably 100 because at 120 Hz you can localize the subwoofer.

Experts, correct me if I'm wrong but IMO, the combination of the speaker's natural dropoff and the crossover's cut would create a sheer dropoff in the speakers' volume below the crossover frequency, so when I get my Min 11s, I'm planning on setting the speakers to "full" to preserve what bass the speakers produce, and simply set the subwoofer's crossover to 100 or 120. Will I have a valley between 100 and 150? Probably. I'll play with it when I get them.
You might be interested in a mid bass module offered by Rythmik Audio here: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F8.html as it's high end goes up to 250Hz. The idea is to use the mid bass module and cascade with a better performing sub using a 24dB/octave slope at 50Hz.

The F8 would make nice speaker stands for the Min20/21/22 - no?

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post #2024 of 2040 Old 03-08-2015, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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You might be interested in a mid bass module offered by Rythmik Audio here: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F8.html as it's high end goes up to 250Hz. The idea is to use the mid bass module and cascade with a better performing sub using a 24dB/octave slope at 50Hz.

The F8 would make nice speaker stands for the Min20/21/22 - no?
Why go through all that trouble and expense? Why not get a better performing loudspeaker in the first place?

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post #2025 of 2040 Old 03-08-2015, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
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Why go through all that trouble and expense? Why not get a better performing loudspeaker in the first place?
For those who want keep the Min20/21/22 and need of sub that will reach into the 250Hz top end, the Rythmik F8 is a decent option that will cleanly reproduce the lower octaves down to 20Hz. Even going with larger bookshelves may not be as good as the Rythmik F8 with it's servo drive. Would be interested in seeing the bookshelf SPL and THD figures in the 250Hz to 50Hz range. The bookshelf may produce sound at 50Hz, but sound quality and quantity is important. I.e. how clean is the reproduced signal and at what Sound Pressure Level?

For the small to medium sized room, a pair of Rythmik F8s would do the job. Though not an inexpensive option, however, squeezing performance out of the system and getting those last octaves comes at a price. I'm considering this at the moment.

If one wants the Min20/21/22 and have bass at subterranean level (i.e. single digital frequencies) or to fill a larger space such as a cavernous man cave, then cascading the F8 with a bigger and more powerful sub is as doable option.

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post #2026 of 2040 Old 03-09-2015, 08:45 AM
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Hi Bazzy!

As far as I can tell, the new models are not available in North America at this time. I'm sure they're coming soon. Though, they are available in Europe. I feel CA dropped the ball by not giving us a satellite speaker that would play below 100 Hz. It's like they keep updating an outdated model.
Hi Jeff!

Yes, I fully agree with you - I was really hoping that CA might announce a bigger BMR Min speaker that does just that at CES 2015 but alas, no.

TBH, I doubt they ever will now - they seem focused on sticking to the present sizes & tweaking them each time.

Bazzy!
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post #2027 of 2040 Old 03-15-2015, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Updated the first Post to include the brand new 2015 satellite & subwoofer models. Only two Minx subwoofer models this time. I would assume that the X500 wasn't a big seller last time.

As of today, availability in North America still MIA.

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post #2028 of 2040 Old 03-16-2015, 02:42 PM
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post #2029 of 2040 Old 03-16-2015, 02:58 PM
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Hello All. First of all I would like to thank you all for your information regarding this thread. As fas as I know this is the only thread for Minx speakers.

I think you can help me about the crossover and LFE settings. Sorry for my average English.

My set up;

Marantz NR 1501 AVR
3 Minx 20
1 Minx X200 subwoofer
2 Tannoy Mercury V bookshelf speakers (Techinal info is here;
SPECIFICATIONS:


GENERAL:
Recommended amplifier power 10 – 70 Watts RMS Continuous power handling 50 Watts Peak RMS Peak power handling (Watts) 100 Sensitivity (2.83 Volts @ 1m) 86dB Nominal Impedance (Ohms) 8a Frequency response (-6dB) 45Hz – 25kHz

DRIVE UNITS:
High frequency 25mm (1.00”) Nitro-urethane layer dampened woven polyesterdome, neodymium magnet assembly Low frequency 130mm (5.00”) Multi-fibre coated pulped paper cone Shielded Yes

CROSSOVER:
Crossover Frequency 3.2kHz Crossover Type 4th order acoustic Linkwitz-Riley

CABINET:
Enclosure type Front reflex Construction 15mm particle board, internally cross-braced enclosure 18mm MDF front Dimensions (inc grille) H x W x D 300.0 x 170.0 x 254.5mm (11.81 x 6.69 x 10.02”) Volume – litres (cubic feet) 7.8 (0.28) Weight 4.5kg (9.9lbs) Finish Sugar Maple or Dark Walnut
I cannot change Tannoys because of wife factor. All I can do is upgrage the system with two extra Minx speakers (one Minx 20 and one Minx 21) for getting 7.1 system. I don't know if its necessary. Because most of the movies are 5.1. I haven't used 7.1 when watching the original 5.1 movie.


I have a Crossover setting of 150 Hz for L,C and Right channels (Minx 20's)
I have a Crossover setting of 45 Hz for surrounds "Tannoy Mercury V")

Are these settings correct. I use loud volumes for music and movies. (%80 music % 20 movies)


At the backside of Minx X 200

Volume is half open Phase is 90 and cross over is 120 Hz I suppose (I moved the button to Minx 20 sign on the woofer)

The other strange thing is that after the room correction the volume is too low. The setting is L,R and Center channels are 0db. Surronds are +2 db. Woofer is 0 db. Therefore I individually increased the speaker levels (5db for frons and center, 7 db for surrouns and 5 db for the woofer for music). For movies I have changed only center channel and increased it +12 dn instead of 0 db.

Now I can hear the dialogues.

About LFE setting on AVR LFE is 0db for DD and DTS. I think this is the highest level (-15 is the minimum on my AVR). Are these LFE setting is OK.

Thank you very much in advance for the response.
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post #2030 of 2040 Old 03-16-2015, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moriarty0086 View Post
Hello All. First of all I would like to thank you all for your information regarding this thread. As fas as I know this is the only thread for Minx speakers.

I think you can help me about the crossover and LFE settings. Sorry for my average English.

...

I have a Crossover setting of 150 Hz for L,C and Right channels (Minx 20's)
I have a Crossover setting of 45 Hz for surrounds "Tannoy Mercury V")

Are these settings correct. I use loud volumes for music and movies. (%80 music % 20 movies)


At the backside of Minx X 200

Volume is half open Phase is 90 and cross over is 120 Hz I suppose (I moved the button to Minx 20 sign on the woofer)..
Welcome to AVS!

On the back of the Minx X200 and on the 'Phase' dial, set it to 0 deg. On 'Crossover Frequency' dial, set it to the maximum of 200Hz. The reason for doing this is the receiver (Marantz NR-1501) will measure the F3 point of the Min 20 based on the in-room test signals during MRAC setup. This crossover frequency is very dependent on the room dimensions, how close the Min 20 is to the room boundary surface and where the Main Listening Position (MLP) is - as this is the place where the MRAC calibration microphone has to be at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moriarty0086 View Post
...The other strange thing is that after the room correction the volume is too low. The setting is L,R and Center channels are 0db. Surronds are +2 db. Woofer is 0 db. Therefore I individually increased the speaker levels (5db for frons and center, 7 db for surrouns and 5 db for the woofer for music). For movies I have changed only center channel and increased it +12 dn instead of 0 db.

Now I can hear the dialogues.

About LFE setting on AVR LFE is 0db for DD and DTS. I think this is the highest level (-15 is the minimum on my AVR). Are these LFE setting is OK.

Thank you very much in advance for the response.
Can you provide more information regarding your room and where the speakers are placed? Room dimensions such as front to back, side to side and floor to ceiling lengths will determine the bass response.

How close the speakers are to the room boundaries and distance to the MLP will determine the levels (dB) and trims (in feet) for each speaker. For your 5.1 setup, are the angles as shown in the Denon/Marantz manual correct?


If the above angle checks out and when carrying out the MRAC setup the general recommendation is to use a boom stand mic like this one: http://www.amazon.com/Stage-Stands-M...boom+stand+mic with an MRAC mic adapter like this one: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001GWCC4I/...I224NHN0YP4MZR

Once the correct MRAC setup is done, you can tune the sound to taste.
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post #2031 of 2040 Old 03-17-2015, 10:40 AM
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Question Minx 20 Crossover settings

Thank you for the response. I have added the photo of my setup after the calibration. I did the calibration again and the result is the same. I have changed the crossover settings as 150 Hz for LR and center channels. For surrouns channels I arranged the crossover as 45 Hz as indicated on the technical specifications of the Minx.

For the time being it is not possible to change the setup. I will do it when my 2 Minx speakers arrive (1 Minx 20 nd one Minx 21). After that I will not use Tannoy's and put to Minx speakers at the rear side of my watching position.

Could you please tell me if everything is fine.

Perpendicular, I will be pleased if the read my previous quote and this one so that you may give me some recommendations especially about the crossover settings of my Tannoy Mercury V. (You may look at the technical specifications that I already mentioned on my previous thread.

Thank you.
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post #2032 of 2040 Old 03-17-2015, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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^ Steve is doing a great job helping you with suggestions. Not sure what input I can add but I'll let you know if I think of anything, besides, I think you should be using the same speaker brand/model all around.

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post #2033 of 2040 Old 03-17-2015, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moriarty0086 View Post
Thank you for the response. I have added the photo of my setup after the calibration. I did the calibration again and the result is the same. I have changed the crossover settings as 150 Hz for LR and center channels. For surrouns channels I arranged the crossover as 45 Hz as indicated on the technical specifications of the Minx.

For the time being it is not possible to change the setup. I will do it when my 2 Minx speakers arrive (1 Minx 20 nd one Minx 21). After that I will not use Tannoy's and put to Minx speakers at the rear side of my watching position.

Could you please tell me if everything is fine.

Perpendicular, I will be pleased if the read my previous quote and this one so that you may give me some recommendations especially about the crossover settings of my Tannoy Mercury V. (You may look at the technical specifications that I already mentioned on my previous thread.

Thank you.
Hi moriarty0086,

From your picture, looks like all your speakers are at the front and within the entertainment cabinet? Looks like the sub (X200) is stuck at lower left and has only one opening where the sound can escape?

Also two Tannoy (set as surrounds) are also near the bottom of the entertainment cabinet? Please note that this is an incorrect 5.1 speaker setup and it will be impossible to get the surround sound bubble.

Regarding the crossover frequency, during the setup with MRAC, what did the NR-1501 set the Tannoy crossover frequency to? This is the in room frequency response. You can adjust the crossover frequency higher, but not lower than what MRAC set it to. The reason being is that the lower limit of the correction filters for the room equalization is set by MRAC and making it below this frequency means creating a hole in frequency response.

The same for the Min20. What was it set to by MRAC?

Do you have a hand held Sound Pressure Level (SPL) meter? Something like from radio shack that will measure in C-weighted average. You can get one from Amazon easily here: http://www.amazon.com/Extech-407730-...MF744NF38H122B

Grab the AIX Audio Calibration Disc/HD Music Sampler here: http://aixrecords.com/catalog/bd/oppo_sampler_bd.html, it has tracks to check for the following:
  • Channel Identification Tests, 7.1, 5.1, 2.0 in all of the new HD codecs from Dolby and DTS
  • Speaker Balance Tests, 7.1, 5.1, 2.0
  • Speaker Phase Tests Check the phase of each speaker pair
  • Frequency Sweep Tests Test for rattles or room nodes
  • Subwoofer Sweep Test Test for low frequency rumble
  • Subwoofer Crossover Test Check your crossover frequency

I believe the item in bold is what you're looking for.

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post #2034 of 2040 Old 03-18-2015, 02:37 AM
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Many Thanks Steve.

I will run the calibration again and let you know the outcıme. The only question for the time being is that, After changing the backside buttons on X200 as you mentioned, shall I change them again after the calibration process.

You are also right about the placement of the speakers. I will change them when I receive my other Minx speakers. Unfortunately, I have to wait them for two months time because of the local dealer of CA in my country.

I will change the surround speakers place ass soon as I receive the new speakers and take into consideration your recommendation of the placement of speakers as shown on your picture.

The only bad thing is that, I can not change the subwoofers placement because of the wife factor. I may put it on the other side of the entertainment cabinet.

Your recommendation of the crossover frequencies is very useful. I will take into consideration your recommendation after the calibration process. I will keep you informed during the process.
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post #2035 of 2040 Old 03-18-2015, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by moriarty0086 View Post
Many Thanks Steve.

I will run the calibration again and let you know the outcıme. The only question for the time being is that, After changing the backside buttons on X200 as you mentioned, shall I change them again after the calibration process.
No. The general recommendation is not to touch the sub after calibration because the receiver has determined basic parameters and room filter creation based on a fixed input from the sub. After setup, do all the parameter changes on the receiver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moriarty0086 View Post
...You are also right about the placement of the speakers. I will change them when I receive my other Minx speakers. Unfortunately, I have to wait them for two months time because of the local dealer of CA in my country.

I will change the surround speakers place ass soon as I receive the new speakers and take into consideration your recommendation of the placement of speakers as shown on your picture.

The only bad thing is that, I can not change the subwoofers placement because of the wife factor. I may put it on the other side of the entertainment cabinet.

Your recommendation of the crossover frequencies is very useful. I will take into consideration your recommendation after the calibration process. I will keep you informed during the process.
Looking at your setup for the front left, center and front right speakers (Min 20) - try the following experiments and see if there is an audible difference.
  • Have the speakers point to where your head is.
  • Pull forward the speakers so that the front of the speaker "does not see" any reflection surfaces at the top, sides and bottom of your entertainment cabinet.
  • Consider using the speaker stands for the front left and front right.

If you haven't done so, carry out a sub crawl test to find some optimal locations of where to put your X200. Axiom Audio has made a youtube video on how to carry this out here: KEF E305/E301 satellite + sub speaker package thread. If you're unable to relocate the sub due to Wife Acceptance Factor (WAF), consider getting a second X200 to smooth out the bass at the MLP.

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Hi again Steve,

Based upon your recommendations I run the auto calibration again after changing the place of backside buttons of X200. The results are;

FL 0 db (old was o db)
RC 1 db (old was 0 db
FC 1 db (old setup was 0 db)

It is very strange that FL and FR is not the same although they are the same speakers.

SL and SR are 2 db. (old was same 2 db)
X200 is 5db (old was 0 db. Significant change. Because the the significant change in woofer I hear more bass and therefore I decreased the woofer level 3 db.

Crossover settings after setup;

Fronts are 120 HZ
Center is 140 HZ.

This is also stranfe. They are Minx 20. Same speakers but different crossover settings performed by Marantz.
Surround is 45 Hz.

After that I have changed Frontz as 150 Hz including the center channel as well. I did not make any change for the surronds. Could you please tell me id this is OK especially for tannoys. As far as I know the technical specification of Tannoy was the same as 45 Hz.

In addition. I have bought three table stands for Minx. I am expecting to receive them in a few thays.

I will run the ayto calibration again after receiving the table stands. At that time I will be considering your recommendation about the placement of the woofer od buying the extra X200.

Could you please tell me again your comments.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moriarty0086 View Post
Hi again Steve,

Based upon your recommendations I run the auto calibration again after changing the place of backside buttons of X200. The results are;

FL 0 db (old was o db)
RC 1 db (old was 0 db
FC 1 db (old setup was 0 db)

It is very strange that FL and FR is not the same although they are the same speakers.
At your MLP, did you use a boom stand mic and adaptor when carrying out the auto calibration setup? This is provides a more repeatable and accurate measurement than holding the mic in the hand or using pillows to approximate ear level.

Did the MLP form an equilateral triangle with the front left and front right speaker? If it doesn't that may skew things to one side more than the other. Are the center, front left speaker and front right speakers pointed to where the head is at the MLP?

The inaccuracy of the Marantz mic may allow for more than +/- 1dB depending on how it was calibrated at the factory and how the correction / look up table was implemented within the receiver. Might want to contact Marantz for an answer on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moriarty0086 View Post
...SL and SR are 2 db. (old was same 2 db)
If the surround left and right are still in the same position as shown on the picture (i.e. in the front and bottom of the entertainment shelf) the surrounds needs to be relocated so that these are slightly behind the MLP. See the previous post on the approximate angles. Re-measure once the surrounds are in the correct location.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moriarty0086 View Post
...X200 is 5db (old was 0 db. Significant change. Because the the significant change in woofer I hear more bass and therefore I decreased the woofer level 3 db...
Did you make this adjustment on the receiver? It's important that you don't touch the dial on the back of the sub after the auto calibration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moriarty0086 View Post
...Crossover settings after setup;

Fronts are 120 HZ
Center is 140 HZ.

This is also stranfe. They are Minx 20. Same speakers but different crossover settings performed by Marantz.
Surround is 45 Hz...
This is based on the in room response and where the Min20 are placed relative to the MLP, room boundaries and objects within the room that will interfere with the frequency response. Based on test tones generated by the receiver into the speakers, and the direct / in-direct sound recorded by the microphone will determine the in room response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moriarty0086 View Post
...After that I have changed Frontz as 150 Hz including the center channel as well. I did not make any change for the surronds. Could you please tell me id this is OK especially for tannoys. As far as I know the technical specification of Tannoy was the same as 45 Hz.

In addition. I have bought three table stands for Minx. I am expecting to receive them in a few thays.

I will run the ayto calibration again after receiving the table stands. At that time I will be considering your recommendation about the placement of the woofer od buying the extra X200.

Could you please tell me again your comments.
After placing the Tannoy (as surrounds) in their right location, try increasing the crossover to 80Hz.

Increasing the crossover frequency for the front left, center and front right to 150Hz is okay. Did you notice any localization of the sub at the new higher crossover frequency? If not, then you're good to go.

If you want to be sure about the correct levels and trims setup in your Marantz receiver, grab the hand held SPL meter and test disc. Play the test tones tracks for each channel with your Main Volume at -10dB. Each channel should be at 75dB as shown on the SPL meter (+/- inaccuracy of the meter) at the MLP. If this checks out, then you're good to go.

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Thanks again for your response. My table stands for front channels arrived and I started to use them. These stands helped me to increase the sound performance for the front channels. Center channel already have table stand. I am trying to grab the other equipmrnts for a better sound performance. After the calibration I changed the backside settings on X200 (only phase dial l) to check if there is any change and did not realise any difference for the sound so I reversed the dials to keep the same settings before the calibration process as you mentioned (dial phase as 0 and crossover as 200Hz.

One of minx speakers to be used for surround purposes arrived but I am not intending to use it until the other Minx 21 arrives. When it comes I will use Minx 21 for center channel and use two of Minx 20 for surrounds. At that time I will have 4 Minx 20 + 1 Minx 21 and accordingly I will not need Tannoys for surrounds. So My 5.1 system will be completed. At that time the surrounds will be placed exactly stated on yout picture. So I am one step behind to complete the system. At that time there will be enough space for the left and righr side of woofer when the left Tannoy speaker on my picture is not kept on the entertainment cabinet. I think this will improve the performance of the subwoofer Because there will be approximately fifteen cm hole on both sides. If not I will have to change the place of woofer (Wife will be angry )

I could not understand -10 db main volume exactly. If I understand correctly I will change the level of all speakers by using AVR and set them -10db before using handheld SPL mt. Because Marants volume does not show any db increase of decrease. Maybe after changing the place of surrounds completely it will bot necessary to grsb SPL meter. I will decide to buy it after getting the other minx 21.

After setup I am quite happy about the music performance. I think I will be happier when I change the surround speaker place. For the movie performance especially for DTS movies the sound is too much for the woofer so I am decreasing all the channels levels and only increase centers volume. For this I use to different setups that Marants have. One for music and one for movies. I am still trying to change the level settings for a better movie performance. While doing this I try to change the levels systematically in order not to change the balance set by the calibration meaning that The change is performed aritmetically the same.

I think 80 % of setup has been completed. I will keep you informed about the changes later. Thanks again.
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^moriarty0086,

The lossy DTS soundtracks are mixed +10dB hotter in the bass than Dolby Digital and this was part of the loudness war that fooled ordinary people in thinking that the DTS mix is better. With the loss less format of DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD, this has basically gone away and reference level between the two container formats are the same.

The reference level that Marantz and all consumer receivers aim for is 85dB at the Main Listening Position (MLP). This is considered very loud by most folks and can't be tolerated for prolonged periods. When you decrease the Main Volume (MV) by -10dB, you are effectively setting it to 75dB at the MLP. If you play the test track on the AIX disc for each channel in broadband pink noise and have the handheld Sound Pressure Level (SPL) at ear height, it should read around 75dB (+/- error of the meter). Once you confirm that each speaker is producing 75dB, this means the receiver has done it's auto calibration correctly. Note that you wont be able to exactly get 75dB due to a number of reasons, the biggest error is how you're holding the meter in the hand. Better to be approximately right than exactly wrong.

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Looking good moriarty! I particularly like reading the exchange between you and Steve and he should be commended for taking his time for helping you. Keep up the good work and have fun!

I have been having big problems since I upgraded to larger powered monitors with the Emotiva Stealth 6. Because of room size and configuration, I went from using the Stealth 6 for my rear surround speakers to a pair of the Airmotiv 4s and both of those were too big and overpowering. Guess what? I'm back to using a pair of Min 21 for surround.

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