Cambridge Audio Minx Satellite Speakers and Home Theater Systems Discussion Thread - Page 79 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2341 of 2439 Old 08-09-2015, 02:32 PM
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Yeah, I see that the x300 is only rated to 33 Hz. For some reason, I was thinking extension to 25, maybe that's the larger one?

Still, it would be an interesting experiment, if he's game.
Hi RayGuy,

I am just interested - do you have a Minx Speaker set up & if so, what models & which sub(s)? How are you finding it?

Bazzy!
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post #2342 of 2439 Old 08-09-2015, 10:06 PM
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Hi RayGuy,

I am just interested - do you have a Minx Speaker set up & if so, what models & which sub(s)? How are you finding it?

Bazzy!
No Minx for me. Just interested in the technology and the concepts of integrating smaller speakers and subs together. For instance, the x200 really interests me as a bridge between small satellite speakers and subwoofers, as most subs that have good low frequency response will not typically perform well in the 150-200 Hz crossover range generally required in these scenarios.

I've had smaller sub/sat sets in the past (among many other types of speakers), so am familiar with the pros and cons of that approach.

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post #2343 of 2439 Old 08-10-2015, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
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No Minx for me. Just interested in the technology and the concepts of integrating smaller speakers and subs together. For instance, the x200 really interests me as a bridge between small satellite speakers and subwoofers, as most subs that have good low frequency response will not typically perform well in the 150-200 Hz crossover range generally required in these scenarios.
Many Subs do play in the 150-180 Hz region because a lot of manufactures know of the many sub/sat systems that are available. These systems can be used with any sized sub. Just the other day I was saying to myself, my system needs more bass and was thinking about changing out to a couple of subs with 12" bass drivers.
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post #2344 of 2439 Old 08-10-2015, 10:33 AM
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Many Subs do play in the 150-180 Hz region because a lot of manufactures know of the many sub/sat systems that are available. These systems can be used with any sized sub. Just the other day I was saying to myself, my system needs more bass and was thinking about changing out to a couple of subs with 12" bass drivers.

Hi Jeff,

Check out the new XTZ Subs - particularly the 12.17 & Cinema 1x12

http://www.xtz-deutschland.de/xtz-shop/subwoofer/

Bazzy!
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post #2345 of 2439 Old 08-10-2015, 12:33 PM
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Many Subs do play in the 150-180 Hz region because a lot of manufactures know of the many sub/sat systems that are available. These systems can be used with any sized sub. Just the other day I was saying to myself, my system needs more bass and was thinking about changing out to a couple of subs with 12" bass drivers.
Yeah, they play in that region, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they play WELL in that region. For HT, that's probably not a big deal, but for music playback ... integration in the crossover region is essential to a musical experience.

My taste runs to clean, non-flabby, bass reproduction. If I can tell that the sound has traveled from the mains to the sub ... well, that is not going to make me happy!

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post #2346 of 2439 Old 08-10-2015, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Jeff,

Check out the new XTZ Subs - particularly the 12.17 & Cinema 1x12

http://www.xtz-deutschland.de/xtz-shop/subwoofer/

Bazzy!
Thanks, but if I was going to purchase a sub, I'd stick with a company like HSU or SVS here in the U.S.A.
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post #2347 of 2439 Old 08-10-2015, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, they play in that region, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they play WELL in that region.
You need to get out more.
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post #2348 of 2439 Old 08-10-2015, 09:15 PM
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You need to get out more.
Not really, they deliver, you know .... subs and pizza, whoda thunk?
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post #2349 of 2439 Old 08-10-2015, 10:15 PM
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Perpendicular,

He was so awesome. He sent me his Minx 21 to I can auditioned them.

I can say I'm very surprise as to how much sound these little speakers can put out. I was skeptical at first, but I'm now a Minx fan! Excellent built quality as well. Sounds is awesome, but I still recommend a sub if you are going to use these as main.

The one thing I am not really fond of is the banana plug system. Otherwise, these are excellent.

Perpendicular, thanks for what you did and helping me out with these. I appreciated it.
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post #2350 of 2439 Old 08-11-2015, 11:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I had a chance to spend a few hours comparing the Min 12 & 22 over the past couple of nights. These two speakers are very similar, as they should be, with the 22 being a bit louder as per the sensitivity ratings between the two speakers. It does seem like the 12 is a bit smoother on the upper part of the frequency range but only by a tad. I will say that if you are using your surround system for mostly movie and tv watching, using three Min 22 as a minimum with 2-4 Min 12 as side and rear surrounds is quite doable. On the other hand, if you listen to a lot of surround music, like I do, I highly recommend an all Min 22 system. You don't really know what that extra woofer does in the larger model until you compare the two speakers side by side. You can really hear an increase in the way the midbass frequencies in the Min 22 are presented. It's fuller, more dynamic and definitely blends with your subwoofer(s) better. On a whim, I placed my ear up to the speaker and listened while both drivers were pumping out sound. There is definitely a difference in sound with the woofer even though it's tiny. I can hear where that extra fullness comes from and it's definitely the woofer and not the full range BMR. I plan on returning the Min 12 and get the Min 22 for my side surround speakers. Just waiting on the dealer for return instructions. Though, I'm going to miss the lil' bugger. It's so darn cute.
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post #2351 of 2439 Old 08-12-2015, 01:20 PM
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I had a chance to spend a few hours comparing the Min 12 & 22 over the past couple of nights. These two speakers are very similar, as they should be, with the 22 being a bit louder as per the sensitivity ratings between the two speakers. It does seem like the 12 is a bit smoother on the upper part of the frequency range but only by a tad. I will say that if you are using your surround system for mostly movie and tv watching, using three Min 22 as a minimum with 2-4 Min 12 as side and rear surrounds is quite doable. On the other hand, if you listen to a lot of surround music, like I do, I highly recommend an all Min 22 system. You don't really know what that extra woofer does in the larger model until you compare the two speakers side by side. You can really hear an increase in the way the midbass frequencies in the Min 22 are presented. It's fuller, more dynamic and definitely blends with your subwoofer(s) better. On a whim, I placed my ear up to the speaker and listened while both drivers were pumping out sound. There is definitely a difference in sound with the woofer even though it's tiny. I can hear where that extra fullness comes from and it's definitely the woofer and not the full range BMR. I plan on returning the Min 12 and get the Min 22 for my side surround speakers. Just waiting on the dealer for return instructions. Though, I'm going to miss the lil' bugger. It's so darn cute.
Thanks for your posts.....its your impressions as well that convinced me to ditch the min 11 I just got in favor of the 22's.
On order.....havent teceived them yet.

I Can say what I have heard from the min 11 is amazing .....pure midrange amazing imaging. Hoping that the 22's extend the treble seperation a bit and provide the midrange body /bass that your last post talks of.
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post #2352 of 2439 Old 08-12-2015, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Newsflash!

I may be keeping my Min 12, using them for now and moving them to ceiling duty when I finally get a new AVR with Dolby Atmos and DTS: X. The 12 may be just small enough to mount up there. The hardest part will be concealing the wires leading to the speakers.

btw, a good way to listen to the sound difference between the two Min models is to turn off your subwoofer(s).

Min satellite models in order of best:

Min 22
Min 21
Min 12
Min 11
Min 20
Min 10
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post #2353 of 2439 Old 08-13-2015, 12:42 AM
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^Perpendicular,

For the ceiling speakers, currently there's not much content that would utilize them. Recall that AVS member Keith Barnes did an experiment where he disabled the 7 floor level speakers and just enabled the 4 ceiling speakers. Keith then played a movie (latest Transformers movie) with a Dolby Atmos soundtrack and was surprised that for most of the time, there was no sound coming out from the 4 ceiling speakers! Only occasionally did the ceiling speakers make some noise and it was during high action packed scenes.

Until sound mixers get used to object audio and learn to utilize them, the effective use of the ceiling speakers will be limited. Most of the movie soundtrack is still very dependent on the 5/7 floor level speakers that forms the bed (or base) channels. The bed channels are getting better as surround sound mixers are quite familiar with how they're supposed to work and now making better mixes.

The up-mixing algorithm called Dolby Surround Up-mixer (DSU) uses the ceiling speakers more aggressively than native Atmos soundtracks. Some do not like this for listening to music while others find it okay for movies.

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post #2354 of 2439 Old 08-13-2015, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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^ That's okay...I ended up returning the Min 12 pair yesterday because, after much thought, it will be 1-2 more years until I acquire a new AV receiver. So, I won't have to deal with adding extra speakers for a while. Especially, on the ceiling.

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post #2355 of 2439 Old 08-13-2015, 11:39 AM
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Of topic, sort of, but about the BMR driver as a midrange.
Guys, I was part of this thread a year or so ago, when I had some thoughts of purchasing a sat system for a spare bedroom. Since then, I have purchased a pair of Dennis Murphy's BMR-Philharmonitors where he utilizes the BMR driver as a midrange in a three way speaker wth RAAL ribbon tweeter and a Scanspeak 7 inch woofer. I think everyone know that CA tried using the BMR as a tweeter in the Aero and the results are mixed, as it really cannot reproduce the highs as well as a traditional tweeter, it would seem according to measurements.

As a midrange, the BMR really excells! since it allow for a higher cross over with the tweeter, you get a more seemless cross point and the BMR mid has excellent dispersion. Very wide sweet spot! Now, there is nothing bad about this speaker- the RAAL ribbon has clarity and detail like nothing I have heard and the scanspeak is a very capable woofer and hits 35 hz with ease and accuracy. Just wanted to post that the BMR works great as a midrange in a mid to high end speaker (whatever you would classify a $1,400/pr speaker set)!

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post #2356 of 2439 Old 08-13-2015, 01:48 PM
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^ That's okay...I ended up returning the Min 12 pair yesterday because, after much thought, it will be 1-2 more years until I acquire a new AV receiver. So, I won't have to deal with adding extra speakers for a while. Especially, on the ceiling.
Min 13, here you come!
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post #2357 of 2439 Old 08-13-2015, 02:48 PM
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Min 13, here you come!
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post #2358 of 2439 Old 08-13-2015, 09:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Min 13, here you come!
Apparently, someone is trying to talk us into the Philharmonitors.
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post #2359 of 2439 Old 08-13-2015, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Of topic, sort of, but about the BMR driver as a midrange.
Guys, I was part of this thread a year or so ago, when I had some thoughts of purchasing a sat system for a spare bedroom. Since then, I have purchased a pair of Dennis Murphy's BMR-Philharmonitors where he utilizes the BMR driver as a midrange in a three way speaker wth RAAL ribbon tweeter and a Scanspeak 7 inch woofer. I think everyone know that CA tried using the BMR as a tweeter in the Aero and the results are mixed, as it really cannot reproduce the highs as well as a traditional tweeter, it would seem according to measurements.

As a midrange, the BMR really excells! since it allow for a higher cross over with the tweeter, you get a more seemless cross point and the BMR mid has excellent dispersion. Very wide sweet spot! Now, there is nothing bad about this speaker- the RAAL ribbon has clarity and detail like nothing I have heard and the scanspeak is a very capable woofer and hits 35 hz with ease and accuracy. Just wanted to post that the BMR works great as a midrange in a mid to high end speaker (whatever you would classify a $1,400/pr speaker set)!

Although, I've thought about what it would be like, it's kind of a waste to take a BMR such as the one in the Minx and add a separate tweeter to it. I can't hear above about 16 kHz anyway and the BMR in the Minx are quite decent and realistic sounding. In general, I know there are other variations on the BMR. So, those drivers may need help with an additional tweeter. Also, personally, I'm after micro and smaller satellite speakers. Not larger bookshelf and tower speakers. If I was into getting something larger, I would have upgraded to the Aero or Aeromax. The Aero speakers get very good reviews and the Aeromax have good to excellent reviews but never bad.
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post #2360 of 2439 Old 08-14-2015, 11:29 AM
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Apparently, someone is trying to talk us into the Philharmonitors.
Well, I think it would be an interesting listen, for no other reason than to hear how a RAAL and a BMR integrate. As to conversion .... he'll need fire and brimstone to sway you!
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post #2361 of 2439 Old 08-14-2015, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I think it would be an interesting listen, for no other reason than to hear how a RAAL and a BMR integrate. As to conversion .... he'll need fire and brimstone to sway you!
I'm quite happy with my Air-Motion tweeters on my powered monitors in the bedroom. Plus I have three more just sitting in boxes in the garage waiting for the day I move into another place and have a bigger living room to use them in. For now, the Minx system will suffice and I'm quite enamored with their sound quality and small footprint for my current space.
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post #2362 of 2439 Old 08-15-2015, 06:04 AM
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Although, I've thought about what it would be like, it's kind of a waste to take a BMR such as the one in the Minx and add a separate tweeter to it. I can't hear above about 16 kHz anyway and the BMR in the Minx are quite decent and realistic sounding. In general, I know there are other variations on the BMR. So, those drivers may need help with an additional tweeter. Also, personally, I'm after micro and smaller satellite speakers. Not larger bookshelf and tower speakers. If I was into getting something larger, I would have upgraded to the Aero or Aeromax. The Aero speakers get very good reviews and the Aeromax have good to excellent reviews but never bad.
Sound and vision did the measurements and found as a tweeter, the BMR is only capable of 2 khz, +/- 3 db. And two different measurements have shown a negative spike around 10 khz.
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...KY1pfRPh78l.97

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post #2363 of 2439 Old 08-15-2015, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Sound and vision did the measurements and found as a tweeter, the BMR is only capable of 2 khz, +/- 3 db. And two different measurements have shown a negative spike around 10 khz.
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...KY1pfRPh78l.97
Which article? There are two different ones. Also, in room response may be different. Also, the BMR has improved in each generation of Minx. If the BMR was so bad, people wouldn't be listening to them. Just sayin'!
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post #2364 of 2439 Old 08-15-2015, 10:24 AM
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measurements

I've long believed that atypical speakers, like BMRs, planars, Walsh drivers, omnidirectional or dipoles, are difficult to measure by standard techniques.

Because BMRs are held to radiate broadly or near-hemispherically, they are tremendously affected by room acoustics. The dip in frequencies, given the graph's rise to 17-18 khz thereafter, looks a lot like a reflection induced cancellation effect.
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post #2365 of 2439 Old 08-15-2015, 01:21 PM
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Sound and vision did the measurements and found as a tweeter, the BMR is only capable of 2 khz, +/- 3 db. And two different measurements have shown a negative spike around 10 khz.
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...KY1pfRPh78l.97
I don't see that, looking at the graphs it's easily +-3dB from 200Hz to roughly 9000Hz for the 2's, 300Hz-8000Hz for the 5's. The center is a bit all over the place though.
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post #2366 of 2439 Old 08-15-2015, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't see that, looking at the graphs it's easily +-3dB from 200Hz to roughly 9000Hz for the 2's, 300Hz-8000Hz for the 5's. The center is a bit all over the place though.
Since I didn't click on the link, I thought he was referring to the Minx.
That link is for the Aero.
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Although, I've thought about what it would be like, it's kind of a waste to take a BMR such as the one in the Minx and add a separate tweeter to it. I can't hear above about 16 kHz anyway and the BMR in the Minx are quite decent and realistic sounding. In general, I know there are other variations on the BMR. So, those drivers may need help with an additional tweeter. Also, personally, I'm after micro and smaller satellite speakers. Not larger bookshelf and tower speakers. If I was into getting something larger, I would have upgraded to the Aero or Aeromax. The Aero speakers get very good reviews and the Aeromax have good to excellent reviews but never bad.
Actually, it's not a waste. I personally think a BMR is probably at it's greatest as a mid range driver given it's properties despite excelling at "full" range duties as compared to more tradition cone drivers. Without any question I'd go with the BMR-Phils over the Aeros when I have the space again to get bookshelves.
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post #2368 of 2439 Old 08-15-2015, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Actually, it's not a waste. I personally think a BMR is probably at it's greatest as a mid range driver given it's properties despite excelling at "full" range duties as compared to more tradition cone drivers. Without any question I'd go with the BMR-Phils over the Aeros when I have the space again to get bookshelves.
My opinion is the BMR excels in two areas. First, the Midrange. Second, the Treble. How do you think we get the dispersion characteristics of a BMR? Hint: It's not in the Mid-range. I'll take the dispersion over the Midrange but, with the Minx designed BMR, we get both.
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post #2369 of 2439 Old 08-15-2015, 02:13 PM
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My opinion is the BMR excels in two areas. First, the Midrange. Second, the Treble. How do you think we get the dispersion characteristics of a BMR? Hint: It's not in the Mid-range. I'll take the dispersion over the Midrange but, with the Minx designed BMR, we get both.
The RAAL's have very good horizontal dispersion too. I come from using excellent planar tweeters, though I do love the Minx for what they are, they cannot compete on the high end. And that's not even due to the dips and spikes in FR, but also because it's a bit...jumbled/muddled at the high end. It's not as clean/clear of a sound as I'm used to.

My background is brass instruments and piano, played for about 20 years in concert band, ensembles, big band (jazz), and symphonic settings here and there. I know how instruments sound. I find that I don't listen to a lot of stuff like this on the Minx that much whereas I'd I used to do it a lot with my Infinity's. The highs just don't seem right, enough so that putting in my collection of instrumental music isn't at the top of my mind.

However, there isn't a speaker out there that I've heard that's as good as the Minx in the lifestyle form factor. If I was looking for better speakers that were small, I'd probably have to go with the SuperZero's but they are around 50% larger.
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post #2370 of 2439 Old 08-15-2015, 02:38 PM
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ien2 my point exactly. The Minx is a very good speaker for its size and might have the best measurements of the speakers in its class, especially those that are single drivers. But team it up with an excellent woofer and a really good tweeter and it really shines as a midrange driver!

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
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