Definitive Technology BP 8060ST - do I need additional subwoofers? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 36 Old 06-11-2011, 10:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to the wonderful research I did here, I went ahead and finally bought the receiver and speaker set for our home theater.

Listened to B&W and DefTechs at BB and finally settled on DefTechs BP 8060ST. Other than the 2 towers, also bought the 8060 center and surround speakers. And the Denon 3312. Ordered 10 gauge speaker wires from Blue Jeans Cable.

The Best Buy salesperson told me that the subs in the 8060 STs were not good enough and I needed a separate subwoofer to get best results. Is this correct?

Thanks for your inputs..
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post #2 of 36 Old 06-12-2011, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audionovice78 View Post

Thanks to the wonderful research I did here, I went ahead and finally bought the receiver and speaker set for our home theater.

Listened to B&W and DefTechs at BB and finally settled on DefTechs BP 8060ST. Other than the 2 towers, also bought the 8060 center and surround speakers. And the Denon 3312. Ordered 10 gauge speaker wires from Blue Jeans Cable.

The Best Buy salesperson told me that the subs in the 8060 STs were not good enough and I needed a separate subwoofer to get best results. Is this correct?

Thanks for your inputs..

I also own the 8060-St towers and for me I don't need an extra sub....it will depend on your tastes and how big of a room you have....you said you listened too them.What did you think?....and while you listened did you play with the knob on the back to increase or decrease the bass output?

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post #3 of 36 Old 06-12-2011, 08:24 AM
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Like Josh said, it depends on your room and how much lf impact you like. I have definitive 7001's (discontinued) with built in subs and have four others as well. Once you get everything setup and calibrated the answer should be obvious.

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post #4 of 36 Old 06-12-2011, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

I also own the 8060-St towers and for me I don't need an extra sub....it will depend on your tastes and how big of a room you have....you said you listened too them.What did you think?....and while you listened did you play with the knob on the back to increase or decrease the bass output?

Thanks Josh. The room is 20X17 and flowing into an open kitchen. I have not played with the knob in the back tox adjust bass output. We will be using the system mainly for movies and some music.

I will probably wait for the Geek Squad team to come in on Thurs and listen again with and without the additional sub. But i am thinking that I can probably save myself $500 here...
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post #5 of 36 Old 06-12-2011, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audionovice78 View Post

Thanks Josh. The room is 20X17 and flowing into an open kitchen. I have not played with the knob in the back tox adjust bass output. We will be using the system mainly for movies and some music.

I will probably wait for the Geek Squad team to come in on Thurs and listen again with and without the additional sub. But i am thinking that I can probably save myself $500 here...

You prolly will save some money....:-) .....each 8060 tower has a 10 inch sub in it so you will have 2 subs booming...lol....plus the 8060 center has an 8 inch sub in that.I live in a condo myself and like alot of people I like bass but on mine I have the knobs only set 1/4 of the way up....deftech recommends too start with them at 12:00 and go from there for your personal tastes....if your not an extreme basshead you should be very happy with just the towers.Sounds too me the best buy you went too were playing these towers down a little too get you too purchase an extra sub...:-) ....once you get things setup let me know what you think of them....I love getting Imput from other 8060-St tower owners...:-)

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post #6 of 36 Old 06-01-2013, 11:43 PM
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Mine are on the way!
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post #7 of 36 Old 06-02-2013, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by gutcheck2001 View Post

Mine are on the way!
Congrats!...keep us posted in the definitive forum on how you like them and for any setup help...smile.gif

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post #8 of 36 Old 06-02-2013, 12:41 PM
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I own a pair of BP7001's with the 10" sub and two 10" passive radiators attached to the built in 1500 watt amp in each tower and even I need an outboard subwoofer. Don't believe the DT marketing hype that the built in subs can reach 20hz or below. Upon testing the best my built in subs could do is 32Hz before dropping like a rock. When set to Large the bass became boomy and muddy sounding so I switched them to small with a 40Hz crossover and the bass tightened right up. I get fantastic mid bass from the towers and great subsonic bass from my SVS. Get yourself a great sub that can handle bass from 20-40Hz fantastic and use the tower subs as mid bass subs and your ears will thank you. I love DefTech speakers but their tower (and center channel) subs are not the best.
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post #9 of 36 Old 06-02-2013, 01:08 PM
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Have you tried setting your speakers to small and running LFE cables to the towers from your sub pre-outs? I hear that makes a rather huge difference.
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post #10 of 36 Old 06-02-2013, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gutcheck2001 View Post

Have you tried setting your speakers to small and running LFE cables to the towers from your sub pre-outs? I hear that makes a rather huge difference.

A "rather huge difference", huh? This shouldn't make any difference from connecting the speakers conventionally and setting up the AVR as having NO SUB connected to it. And it is actually probably not the best way to connect these speakers when using no dedicated sub.

The best way to connect them when using no dedicated subwoofer is to simply connect them conventionally and configure the AVR as having NO SUB connected. If you configure them as SMALL with a subwoofer connection you are going to end up cascading and/or overlapping the speaker's built in high and low pass filters with the AVR's crossover filters.

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post #11 of 36 Old 06-02-2013, 08:40 PM
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Well I haven't tried it myself, but sound and vision said that they liked the LFE thing. Not sure, I can try if you all want.... they should be here in a few days.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/review-definitive-technology-bipolar-supertower-speaker-system

I am getting a new Pioneer Elite SC-65 and these speakers basically delivered on the same day. Thursday my buddy and I are running wires. I was going to run RCA's for the LFE's on the speakers. I have a sub, kinda plan on keeping it, but I can see what I can find out.
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post #12 of 36 Old 06-02-2013, 08:43 PM
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Here is the paragraph in that article. What do you guys think?:

"In all frankness, the tower’s next-to-lowest octaves can easily overwhelm things if you let them get away from you. My solution here was twofold. First, little by little, I made adjustments that took into account realistic low-bass levels. When you go to Symphony Hall to hear The Rite of Spring, you don’t get knocked over by the bass drum and contrabassoon; they’re simply there. (Put another way, just because you can make the floorboards move doesn’t mean you should, every time.) My second adjustment began with changing my hookup scheme by employing the line-level sub inputs and resetting my main channels to “small,” deliberately “underlapping” the crossover by setting my preamp’s subwoofer crossover to 60 Hz. Now I could adjust deep-bass levels via the “Subwoofer” channel-level key on my remote without leaving the comfort of my chair, while the slightly lower-fat diet I’d prescribed for the 50 Hz-120 Hz range helped eliminate the occasional midbass surplus. Perfect."
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post #13 of 36 Old 06-03-2013, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gutcheck2001 View Post

What do you guys think?"

You can definitely do whatever you want; the options are there. But I tend to lean toward simplicity. I think that most (not all) people with powered towers and no sub end up going with a simple NO SUB setting. With a true sub, things get a little bit different. You could consider connecting the speaker's "sub" sections to the AVR's sub out and using an LFE+Main (LFE+, Plus, Double Bass, whatever Pioneer calls that setting), too.

Do you know what the high and low pass filters are with that speaker's upper and lower sections? For the sake of discussion, let's say it is at 80Hz. Well, in the example from S&V you posted, if that is the case (80Hz high and low pass in the speaker), with a 60Hz crossover setting in the AVR, you end up tossing everything between 60Hz and 80Hz. Granted, the filters are not brick walls and if you had a hump in your FR between 60Hz and 80Hz, this configuration might be useful. Still, I think you complicate things unnecessarily by trying to run the speakers' upper sections as SMALL and the lower sections as subwoofers. The speakers were engineered to perform as a unit when connected conventionally and the AVR will mix the LFE channel into the front channels in the correct measure. Assuming those speakers have a volume control for the "subs", you still have that adjustment to make.

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post #14 of 36 Old 06-03-2013, 09:45 PM
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Thanks man. I actually have no idea. I don't have any of my hardware until Wed, and this will be the first time in 10 years I have played with this stuff. I have the LFE cables run, so I can try any and all configurations. I actually also have a sub, a not so awesome sub, but a velodyne c100 or something of the sort which I can still use, but I want to try to get a smaller one so I can fit it in the corner..... I have like the hardest room ever.
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post #15 of 36 Old 06-03-2013, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audionovice78 View Post

Thanks to the wonderful research I did here, I went ahead and finally bought the receiver and speaker set for our home theater.


Listened to B&W and DefTechs at BB and finally settled on DefTechs BP 8060ST. Other than the 2 towers, also bought the 8060 center and surround speakers. And the Denon 3312. Ordered 10 gauge speaker wires from Blue Jeans Cable.


The Best Buy salesperson told me that the subs in the 8060 STs were not good enough and I needed a separate subwoofer to get best results. Is this correct?


Thanks for your inputs..

For HT use a separate sub/subs would be best. The sub in the Def. Tech's will not go as low as most people would like with HT.

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post #16 of 36 Old 09-09-2013, 05:28 PM
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Did you go with the additional sub?

In my opinion, they need an extra sub for movies.

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post #17 of 36 Old 09-17-2013, 09:10 PM
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Hi,
My HT Setup consists of

Yamaha RX V 673 7.2 90 w per channel receiver

Front L & R DefTech ST 8060

Center DefTech HD 8060

Surrounds L&R Klipsch 52 ii

Rear Surround Klipsch RC 52 ii


I can also add in the old Logitech Z5500 sub in case I need it. Do I need an extra SUB Actually ??


My Questions are

1.) Does 90 w per channel receiver is good enough for my 300W per speaker DefTech 8060 Super Towers. Am I safe to use the receiver without blowing the speakers.

2.) Are the surrounds that I currently have are good enough for the setup.

3.)what change of physical position would make it better for better sound stage.

4.) Any other ideas to improve my sound setup/stage would be welcome.

I am attaching some pictures of my setup for giving you an idea of what I have here in hand
ALT=""]http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/277199/width/350/height/700[/IMG]
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post #18 of 36 Old 11-17-2013, 07:56 PM
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post #19 of 36 Old 11-24-2013, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacman9270 View Post

Did you go with the additional sub?

In my opinion, they need an extra sub for movies.

Ok... So I take this back. I removed the SuperCube2000 from the setup due to the possibility of cracking my foundation. Heck, I'm still afraid for my foundation with only my BP8060STs providing the low end. However, I will upgrade my CS8040HD to the CS8060HD next year.

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post #20 of 36 Old 11-25-2013, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audionovice78 View Post

Thanks to the wonderful research I did here, I went ahead and finally bought the receiver and speaker set for our home theater.


Listened to B&W and DefTechs at BB and finally settled on DefTechs BP 8060ST. Other than the 2 towers, also bought the 8060 center and surround speakers. And the Denon 3312. Ordered 10 gauge speaker wires from Blue Jeans Cable.


The Best Buy salesperson told me that the subs in the 8060 STs were not good enough and I needed a separate subwoofer to get best results. Is this correct?


Thanks for your inputs..

The goal here is to end up with a sound that is convincable. The "Subs" that are built into your towers are "Powered Woofers". Not a bad thing, but they are not true Powered Subwoofers. A true powered subwoofer has tweaking features that will put a smile on your face after you "dial" it in properly. The only feature built into your towers for adjusting the bass is a gain control. So with an added true subwoofer, and the crossover set to about 80 HZ, you will be redirecting all bass below 80HZ to the true sub. You will also be able to place the separate sub at a location in your room that will maximize the quality of the bass.

Espo77
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post #21 of 36 Old 12-08-2013, 07:23 AM
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Hey guys, I am very new to AvSforum as we'll as HT buying. Currently using Bose cinemate first generation. I am looking for additional system to go with my basement TV so I can enjoy my games and movies endlessly. Now fear I went thru so many threads but didn't found specific answer for my kind of situation
I am looking for Def tech Bp-8060st (pair) , def tech CS-8040HD and DT SR-8040HD(pair) currently BB has this set for 2000 (originally 3000) if I buy a denon AVR-E300 my set up would be done in 2350.
Does this DT worth this money , don't shopped before so any money is big money for me but ain't hesitant to spend this if I am getting quality.
Any suggestion if I have chosen correct receiver ? It's 875w 5.1 C , 0.1%THD
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post #22 of 36 Old 12-10-2013, 01:21 PM
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I have that exact same setup from BB, only looking to upgrade the center channel some time mid or late next year. I am pairing this speaker setup with the Pioneer Elite SC-65. I love it but am not an expert with the other AVRs out there. You can call my setup an "energy efficient" setup due to the DT speakers not requiring alot to push them. Check out the Elite lineup as well.

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post #23 of 36 Old 12-10-2013, 01:44 PM
 
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I had the 8060ST's,8060 center and 8040 Surrounds. For home theater you really need a dedicated sub. I ended up taking the Def Tech's back and went with a Martin Logan ESL setup and didn't think twice about it. Logan's are far superior,but the def techs are nice too.
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post #24 of 36 Old 12-10-2013, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat1 View Post

I had the 8060ST's,8060 center and 8040 Surrounds. For home theater you really need a dedicated sub. I ended up taking the Def Tech's back and went with a Martin Logan ESL setup and didn't think twice about it. Logan's are far superior,but the def techs are nice too.

Just curious what you found better, both have big sound stages, however, I found the bass to be so so on the 8060's, loved the mids and highs though.
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post #25 of 36 Old 12-10-2013, 02:48 PM
 
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The def tech's had a sort of metallic sound to them. I didn't care for the looks. I love the quickness of the Logan's and the sound stage is insane,the whole back wall lit up. The Def techs do that too,but not like these. Its a diff sound. Don't get me wrong,I liked the Def techs,I was just smitten with the Logan Electromotion ESLs more..
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post #26 of 36 Old 12-10-2013, 03:06 PM
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I thought the Logan ESLs were better for live music. As far as movies go and overall music, I prefer the BP8060STs. It's funny because I thought the ESLs were a little tinny for my tastes. lol. We definitely have different ears.

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post #27 of 36 Old 12-10-2013, 04:00 PM
 
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Its the receiver.. When I had my Onkyo 805 I didn't like them,after I got my Onk 818 it made a world of difference. These speakers are awesome for any music and movies. People that come over and listen rave about them..
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post #28 of 36 Old 12-16-2013, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramsreddy99 View Post

Hi,
My HT Setup consists of

Yamaha RX V 673 7.2 90 w per channel receiver

Front L & R DefTech ST 8060

Center DefTech HD 8060

Surrounds L&R Klipsch 52 ii

Rear Surround Klipsch RC 52 ii


I can also add in the old Logitech Z5500 sub in case I need it. Do I need an extra SUB Actually ??

How do you like this arrangement? I have moved from a small house with a small family room and now I am nearing completion of my HT. My room is 13.5' x 17' with 7.5' ceilings, seating for 7 (4+3), and the AVR will be a Marantz SR6008 (110 W per channel).

Current setup is my wife's old Klipsch HT - Synegry SF-2 in front, C1 for center, S1 for rears, HSU VTF-15H. I am considering picking up the Def Tech ST 8060 package which includes the CS8040 center and SR8040 rears.

My question is if I would run into problems with adding the SF-2 floor standing speakers to the Def Techs, to make a 7.1 system? For example, using the SF-2 as the back speakers or surrounds?
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post #29 of 36 Old 12-17-2013, 04:51 AM
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It would be much preferred def tech over SF series .... Much different sound stage ...... I have similar but wider room then urs it's about 14 by 30 with crazy arrangement I posted in diff forum .... Actual hT set up is in 14 by 15 area. IMO Don't need the 7.1 .... With def tech bipolar design u will get more surround then other regular speakers .. Go for just 5.1 ... Set it and evaluate the need of 7.1
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post #30 of 36 Old 01-17-2014, 03:17 PM
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The def tech 5.1 will be in control of the sound stage so the additional two surround channels should be an issue as long as you match the sound levels into the other 5.1 levels in responsiveness.

I have achieved a good sound stage with the sound level control on the receiver. my room is small as you can see so the extra surrounds i have are not in the right place at the moment.

Very likely I should be there soon.

Thanks
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