In-ceiling vs LCR soundbar 5.1 setup - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 03:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi everyone,
I am trying to decide on a new home entertainment system for a new construction home we'll be moving into, 50/50 music/movie. Looking for a 5.1 setup, budget:
1500-2000 for 5 speakers, $500 for sub, and $500-700 for a receiver. I am trying to decide on the speakers 1st. As an option, we selected to have 5 holes cutout in the ceiling with speaker wires routed from each hole to a centralized location where the receiver will be installed, builder provides wiring only, no speakers. We wanted to concealed the wiring.
So here's are my two options:
1) Install 5 in-ceiling speakers, has to be round, thinking 6"-8" woofer with swivel tweet. Through reading the forums, i've narrow it down to these speakers: Triad, Niles, and Noble Fidelity LCR type in-ceiling speakers.
2) Seal the 3 front cutouts and use an LCR soundbar below a wall-mounted TV (Triad, Atlantic Tech, ect) i'll probably buy one mentioned in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1285715) and use the 2 in-ceiling rear surrounds.
Wife obviously prefers option 1, but if options 2 provide a better system, i think i can get by . Floor plan and model home photos linked for reference, I appreciate any feedback, thanks!
LL

 

House_Canopy Lane 1ST FLOOR.pdf 31.123046875k . file
LL
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post #2 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 07:31 AM
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a choice between two "compromises" - with quality speakers like Triad, go with the in-ceiling units. A soundbar is at best a pseudo surround system, totally dependent on sound bouncing off parallel walls - and your one wall with windows will kill that.
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post #3 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 07:35 AM
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X2 - go with the in-ceiling LCR - just make sure they are directional or angled toward your listening area instead of pointing straight down. This makes a big difference
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post #4 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 08:03 AM
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I don't think that your speaker budget will get you Triad speakers. If you can up the budget, then go for it. Triad speakers are very solid. Another option is the Deftech RCS speakers that are angled and are within your budget (several authorized Ebay sellers have these for about 40% or so of MSRP):

For your mains:
http://www.definitivetech.com/Produc...UIW%20RCS%20II

For surrounds:
http://www.definitivetech.com/Produc...UIW%20RSS%20II

I definitely recommend an enclosed speaker vs an open baffle speakers to prevent sound loss (drywall makes a very poor enclosure to prevent sound loss).

How large is your room? For a sub, I would look at something like this:
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfm1plus.html

Or this:
http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/legend.html

For a receiver you can get a Denon 1911 or 1912 and that should be a great receiver in your budget that will give you plenty or power and Audyssey MultiEQ. Lots of options with receivers.
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post #5 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 09:14 AM
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Did you think about using FLat panel LCR speakers - this would come
out better, than a soundbar under the TV? It looks like you have some
room there.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #6 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 09:20 AM
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You could also consider something like this:
http://www.crutchfield.com/s_733PLCR...FBrand|Artison

High WAF factor and eliminates the need for a center channel. I have not heard them personally, but have heard good things about them.
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post #7 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 09:24 AM
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The Artison is a good option and this Boston VS 224, wall mount and
stand mount LCR speaker, sounds good and looks good.
http://www.bostonacoustics.com/VS-22...aker-P241.aspx

__________________________________________
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Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #8 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

Did you think about using FLat panel LCR speakers - this would come
out better, than a soundbar under the TV? It looks like you have some
room there.

Is that what's it called? In my option #2, i was thinking of a 3 channels, LCR (no DSP, just speakers to be driven by the receiver) "soundbar" to mount below the flat panel, something similar to this:
http://www.atlantictechnology.com/de...asp?NodeId=116
Will this type of soundbar be better than going with 3 separate aimable LCR in-ceiling speakers?

I've decided not to go with an in-wall setup since I don't feel good ripping into a brand new home.
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post #9 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitemdx03 View Post

Will this type of soundbar be better than going with 3 separate aimable LCR in-ceiling speakers?

I've decided not to go with an in-wall setup since I don't feel good ripping into a brand new home.

I belong in the camp - that would use front ceiling speakers, as a last
resort - my head will move aroud too much, and I get distracted from
people talking above me. I would use a sound bar instead.
Going with something like the Boston 3 LCR speakers, will alow more
of a front stage, and sound spread (wider dimension). You don't need
to knock holes in the wall - they can hang on the wall and under the TV.
Good luck with your choice, and enjoy the journey.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #10 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitemdx03 View Post

Is that what's it called? In my option #2, i was thinking of a 3 channels, LCR (no DSP, just speakers to be driven by the receiver) "soundbar" to mount below the flat panel, something similar to this:
http://www.atlantictechnology.com/de...asp?NodeId=116
Will this type of soundbar be better than going with 3 separate aimable LCR in-ceiling speakers?

I've decided not to go with an in-wall setup since I don't feel good ripping into a brand new home.

For your setup and concerns I think this makes sense. You have to make a compromise somewhere, and as zieglj01 mentioned, it is better to have sound coming from your TV than from the ceiling.

Just make sure you get a good subwoofer and have it handle all the low frequency bass. I would probably crossover somewhere in the 100hz territory and go from there. I can't imagine the small woofers in those soundbars can extend low with any authority.
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post #11 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 01:30 PM
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ok, instead of "soundbar" - let's focus the discussion to "on-wall" speakers like those already mentioned.

Another option from Axion Audio is their "M" series of on-wall speakers
http://axiomaudio.com/wallspeakers.html
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post #12 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 01:41 PM
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Is the first picture a sample room? I assume so since you said you haven't moved in yet. I am moving into a new home in a few weeks, and happen to have an in-ceiling Triad 5.0 system in our great room (and in-wall sub), and a Triad Micro LCR 3.0 soundbar in our bedroom with no sub yet. The thing with the ceiling speakers is that you want them positioned so that you are on-axis as best possible where your seating area ends up. Since they are 45 degree angled baffles, you need to account where your ears will be on the couch, and position the speakers accordingly. I'd actually run the wires extra long in the ceiling, then take a picture before drywall goes up and measure them out. The Triads can easily be installed into an already finished ceiling with no need to repaint. We put in the In-Ceiling Bronze LCRs up front and 2 In-Wall Bronze Surround dipoles.

The soundbars (really 3 separately enclosed sealed LCR speakers in one outer enclosure) from Triad are another option, but won't play as low and depend on a sub crossed much higher, so you may get localization issues with the location you plotted out. Placement isn't as tricky. But make sure to measure your TV mounting height to account for the bar if you go this way, since they can be as tall as 6".

PM me in a few weeks and I can give you a comparison of my experiences with each product.
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post #13 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Matt,

Thanks for the info. The 1st pic is the model home. 2nd pic is what my home looks like in construction. I am still debating on the furniture setup, but what I have in mind is an L type sectional rather than 2 sofas as shown in the model home. That way i will be right in front of the TV rather than viewing at an angle. The Triad's Bronze 8 LCR and Def tech squarish enclosed type in-ceiling is probably out of my budget. If i do go in-ceiling, it will have to be there in-ceiling sealedround type, i've asked the question for comparison in the Triad's owner thread. I've also read really good review on the Noble Fidelity round in-ceiling speakers, so many choices I have 2 months til I move in so I'll definitely check in with you in a couple of weeks.
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post #14 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 02:29 PM
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Hmmm. If the choice was between ceiling rounds and a Triad LCR bar, I'd go Triad all the way. I have some Niles 8" round speakers for distributed audio that are great for that application, but honestly would suck for a 5.1 system because they fire straight down. If I were in your situation, I'd get a Triad Mini or Micro LCR 3.0 and 2 internet direct subwoofers placed up front. This will help with localization somewhat, and give you the best bang for the buck given the aesthetic needs. You can always add some surrounds in the ceiling, but I'd save up for the Triads. My friend put in ceiling rounds for surround duty, and they are almost more of a distraction than anything else. Just save up enough to do it right the first time!
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