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Old 01-07-2016, 02:59 PM
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i prob don't want to know the answer to this, but are the new philharmonitors "better" than the originals which had SEAS ER18 7" woofers paired with fountek ribbon tweeters? seems like v2.0 is a bit more sensitive when i compare the freq response graphs. regardless, i'm still loving my original philharmonitors.
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Old 01-07-2016, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jomama View Post
i prob don't want to know the answer to this, but are the new philharmonitors "better" than the originals which had SEAS ER18 7" woofers paired with fountek ribbon tweeters? seems like v2.0 is a bit more sensitive when i compare the freq response graphs. regardless, i'm still loving my original philharmonitors.
I don't remember which version you had--the one in the .75 cu ft cabinet, or the .5 cu ft. If the former, then it has a good bit more bass extension than the new model. If the latter, it would be a closer call, but the larger Seas woofer would still edge out the smaller Scan. The RAAL tweeter is a little more open at the very top than the Fountek, but not by an order of magnitude. In between those extremes, the overall presentation is very similar, which I like to think is spacious and relaxed.
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Old 01-07-2016, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post
I don't remember which version you had--the one in the .75 cu ft cabinet, or the .5 cu ft. If the former, then it has a good bit more bass extension than the new model. If the latter, it would be a closer call, but the larger Seas woofer would still edge out the smaller Scan. The RAAL tweeter is a little more open at the very top than the Fountek, but not by an order of magnitude. In between those extremes, the overall presentation is very similar, which I like to think is spacious and relaxed.
i have the 0.75 cu ft curved-sided philharmonitor - i believe it was the last pair you built before you discontinued them. i've been toying with the idea of getting a center channel, but that would also mean i'd need a a/v receiver since i'm running the speakers on a 2ch amp right now (off analog outputs from my oppo player). i know you've mentioned mtmw or mtm centers - are you making/selling those? also, would the affordable accuracy speakers make good surround speakers?
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Old 01-07-2016, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jomama View Post
i have the 0.75 cu ft curved-sided philharmonitor - i believe it was the last pair you built before you discontinued them. i've been toying with the idea of getting a center channel, but that would also mean i'd need a a/v receiver since i'm running the speakers on a 2ch amp right now (off analog outputs from my oppo player). i know you've mentioned mtmw or mtm centers - are you making/selling those? also, would the affordable accuracy speakers make good surround speakers?
I have a number of center channel designs, including a big-hog wmtw using the same drivers as in the Phil Slims, an MTM with your Fountek tweeter and the same woofers used in the Salk Song Tower, my mod of the Andrew Jones Pioneer C22 MTM center, and the new Philharmonitor makes a good center, either standing up or on its side with the tweeter rotated.
The AA monitor will function very well as a surround assuming you can work with the rather large size and rear port.
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Old 01-07-2016, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jomama View Post
i prob don't want to know the answer to this, but are the new philharmonitors "better" than the originals which had SEAS ER18 7" woofers paired with fountek ribbon tweeters? seems like v2.0 is a bit more sensitive when i compare the freq response graphs. regardless, i'm still loving my original philharmonitors.
You're fine. I had those a while back and if they were still in production, I personally would get those instead of the New Philharmonitors.
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Old 01-07-2016, 06:39 PM
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You're fine. I had those a while back and if they were still in production, I personally would get those instead of the New Philharmonitors.
This was the gentleman who returned the original Philharmonitors.
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Old 01-07-2016, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post
This was the gentleman who returned the original Philharmonitors.
Yeah, it was a problem with my electronics (an old-ish Denon receiver) that I didn't realize it was the receiver at the time.
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Old 01-08-2016, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post
I have a number of center channel designs, including a big-hog wmtw using the same drivers as in the Phil Slims, an MTM with your Fountek tweeter and the same woofers used in the Salk Song Tower, my mod of the Andrew Jones Pioneer C22 MTM center, and the new Philharmonitor makes a good center, either standing up or on its side with the tweeter rotated.
The AA monitor will function very well as a surround assuming you can work with the rather large size and rear port.
of those that you listed, i think the mtm and the c22 mtm are prob the most rational/reasonable choices for me. can you let me know what the prices for each of those 2? and what mods do you do to the c22? crossover? different tweeter? be curious to know. thanks!
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Old 01-08-2016, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by jomama View Post
of those that you listed, i think the mtm and the c22 mtm are prob the most rational/reasonable choices for me. can you let me know what the prices for each of those 2? and what mods do you do to the c22? crossover? different tweeter? be curious to know. thanks!
My mod for the C22 is the same as what I used for the BS22's as my original Affordable Accuracy monitor. I replace the Pioneer tweeter with a much better Vifa unit, and I redo the crossover to accommodate the new tweeter and improve baffle step compensation. I also add more sound treatment inside, but quite frankly I don't think that makes any difference. The modded center is $120. The Fountek MTM is $800 in a Jim Salk cabinet.
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Old 01-08-2016, 08:31 PM
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So I've listened to a few albums on the new Philharmontiors and they definitely exceed my old psb speakers in every way, treble detail and female vocal airiness, mids from guitars, bass impact and speed, visual appearance, everything. Surprisingly I'm noticing the most new details in modern music like Daft Punk. I think I built the speakers up in my head a little too much before arrival, I was expecting to plug them in and instantly have an lsd drug trip where I travel to a land of pure pleasure and ride a unicorn over a rainbow in space, but they ARE really great speakers.

One thing I wondered.. they ship with the magnetic tweeter protectors that say make sure you don't let any magnets fall on the tweeter.. does this mean the grills are dangerous to the tweeter? I'm taking them on and off super carefully just in case the magnets on the corners get close to the tweeter. I feel like a bomb squad technician defusing a nuke every time I do it :P



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Old 01-08-2016, 09:04 PM
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Here are pictures of my Salk custom BMR speakers. The veneer is curly walnut with dark walnut dye. They're pretty spiffy.
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Old 01-08-2016, 10:20 PM
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wow that jim salk cabinet is awesome.
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Old 01-09-2016, 12:32 AM
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wow that jim salk cabinet is awesome.
Salk certainly does good work. They sound awesome too
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Old 01-09-2016, 07:04 AM
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Salk certainly does good work. They sound awesome too
They definitely look like they're worth the extra few hundred $$$ over the PE cabinets.
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Old 01-09-2016, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by uncola View Post
So I've listened to a few albums on the new Philharmontiors and they definitely exceed my old psb speakers in every way, treble detail and female vocal airiness, mids from guitars, bass impact and speed, visual appearance, everything. Surprisingly I'm noticing the most new details in modern music like Daft Punk. I think I built the speakers up in my head a little too much before arrival, I was expecting to plug them in and instantly have an lsd drug trip where I travel to a land of pure pleasure and ride a unicorn over a rainbow in space, but they ARE really great speakers.

One thing I wondered.. they ship with the magnetic tweeter protectors that say make sure you don't let any magnets fall on the tweeter.. does this mean the grills are dangerous to the tweeter? I'm taking them on and off super carefully just in case the magnets on the corners get close to the tweeter. I feel like a bomb squad technician defusing a nuke every time I do it :P
]
Sorry--I only supply lsd with the Phil 3's. It's packed in one of the upper cabinets, readily accessible once the rear magnetic grill is removed. Speaking of which, I wouldn't worry too much about zapping a ribbon with one of your grills, unless you thwang one of the magnets right down on the face plate. For one thing, those magnets aren't very strong. That's why you need to have the four bolts on the speaker baffle fairly loose so they'll stick out and grab the magnets. The baffle itself is secured with latex caulk.
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Old 01-09-2016, 07:23 AM
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They definitely look like they're worth the extra few hundred $$$ over the PE cabinets.
Actually, they're only $150 more, although that's academic because I can't offer the PE cabinets anymore. They don't have enough accessible room inside to mount the complex crossover in reasonable fashion. So Salk's $1600 version is the only one available. The pics of the curly walnut show solid wood corners. I don't remember whether those were supplied free or for an up;charge, but Jim isn't doing those anymore. He doesn't mind me losing my shirt on these projects, but he insists on at least covering his costs. Go figure. So you can either get a version with a black satin front baffle, or you can have the flat part veneered, with a darker burst treatment on the corners. Jim's veneer press can't handle curves, so he has to either go with satin black mdf or transition into a burst border on the corners.
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Old 01-09-2016, 10:25 AM
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Here are pictures of my Salk custom BMR speakers. The veneer is curly walnut with dark walnut dye. They're pretty spiffy.
Wow - any closer and they'd be some expensive headphones!
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Old 01-09-2016, 03:32 PM
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Wow - any closer and they'd be some expensive headphones!
Depends if you use your PC by sticking your face right up to your monitor

My mouse and keyboard slide out of my desk so I don't have to sit that close fortunately. I usually sit about a meter back, and there's also a futon 3 meters back which I use for critical music listening and watching shows or movies. But I get your point - they're huge and monolithic on the desk Surely they'd benefit from a nice big room with good acoustics, but that will have to wait until the future. Almost feels like a couple of tower speakers sitting in front of me.

Compared to the old Philharmonitors, the sound is a definite step up

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Old 01-10-2016, 12:06 AM
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t1337Dude heh I have my new Phils in exactly the same position on the sides of my computer monitor. Your awesome BMR phils with front slot port are making me regret chickening out on the BMRs. I suppose one day I could get Phil 3's and saw massive holes in my desk so the phil 3s could poke through my desk and then I'd finally outdo you. Or I could wall mount the phil 3's
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Old 01-12-2016, 10:02 AM
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t1337Dude heh I have my new Phils in exactly the same position on the sides of my computer monitor. Your awesome BMR phils with front slot port are making me regret chickening out on the BMRs. I suppose one day I could get Phil 3's and saw massive holes in my desk so the phil 3s could poke through my desk and then I'd finally outdo you. Or I could wall mount the phil 3's
dude, you live in hawaii, so you've got us all beat!
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Old 01-13-2016, 08:51 AM
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Anyone have the Phil 3's and can comment on how they sound?
Comparative to anything else?
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Old 01-13-2016, 09:39 AM
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Anyone have the Phil 3's and can comment on how they sound?
Comparative to anything else?
Someone just posted a review with pics on Audioholics: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums.../#post-1113051
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Old 01-13-2016, 10:34 AM
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Someone just posted a review with pics on Audioholics: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums.../#post-1113051
Awesome review and I know I'd probably be happy with them.

Looking at Revel Performa3 F208 as well.
Can get new at approx 30% MSRP and maybe a little less if pushed.

I really like your design and commitment to the hobby.
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Old 01-13-2016, 11:55 AM
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Awesome review and I know I'd probably be happy with them.

Looking at Revel Performa3 F208 as well.
Can get new at approx 30% MSRP and maybe a little less if pushed.

I really like your design and commitment to the hobby.
I have the Philharmonic 3, Revel F52, Revel Salon2 and have listened to the Revel F208 extensively at my sister's house. The Philharmonics compare favorably to the F208s with a little more punch in the low end.

However, to me they just lack a little something that the Revels have. The highs are crisp and clear, mids are smooth and the bass is clean and controlled. Unfortunately, they just didn't move me in the same way the Revels did. That's not to say that the Philharmonics are bad. They are outstanding speakers, but if you have the money, I'd go with the Revels. If not, the Philharmonics are a great speaker for the price and sound very similar. I'm still happy to own a pair.
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Old 01-13-2016, 12:33 PM
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I have the Philharmonic 3, Revel F52, Revel Salon2 and have listened to the Revel F208 extensively at my sister's house. The Philharmonics compare favorably to the F208s with a little more punch in the low end.

However, to me they just lack a little something that the Revels have. The highs are crisp and clear, mids are smooth and the bass is clean and controlled. Unfortunately, they just didn't move me in the same way the Revels did. That's not to say that the Philharmonics are bad. They are outstanding speakers, but if you have the money, I'd go with the Revels. If not, the Philharmonics are a great speaker for the price and sound very similar. I'm still happy to own a pair.

I haven't heard most of the Revels, and one only briefly, so I'm certainly not arguing with you. But could you be a little more specific in what performance attribute "moved" you more in the Revels? Impact?\ and Dynamic range? Clarity?
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Old 01-13-2016, 12:49 PM
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I wish we could get Harmon to put the Phil 3's on the rotating "test pad" to get some true comparisons.
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Old 01-13-2016, 12:50 PM
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I have the Philharmonic 3, Revel F52, Revel Salon2 and have listened to the Revel F208 extensively at my sister's house. The Philharmonics compare favorably to the F208s with a little more punch in the low end.

However, to me they just lack a little something that the Revels have. The highs are crisp and clear, mids are smooth and the bass is clean and controlled. Unfortunately, they just didn't move me in the same way the Revels did. That's not to say that the Philharmonics are bad. They are outstanding speakers, but if you have the money, I'd go with the Revels. If not, the Philharmonics are a great speaker for the price and sound very similar. I'm still happy to own a pair.
Thanks for the response.
Decisions decisions.
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Old 01-13-2016, 02:28 PM
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I think Revel makes great speakers and have a lot of respect for Harmon and its companies in general. My experience with Revel speakers is limited though having only owned F12's, F32's and M22's (as well as JBL PT800's which are similar to Revel Gems) and having listened to a friend's F52's quite a bit. That said, I always found the highs on the Revel Performa series, granted they were last gen, to be fatiguing after a while. The PT800's which shared a midrange with the original Revel Gems were the same though I didn't have that issue with the F12's I had. What I also found was that if I cut the treble on the speaker, I lost too much.

This may be because the Performas used metal dome tweeters and the F12's didn't and is also probably because I am so used to ribbon tweeters from the many years I have owned Magnepans. I also haven't heard the gen 3 Performa series speakers yet.

I currently own a pair of Phil 3's, a pair of Phil Slims, KEF LS50's and Magnepan 3.6's. I will say that I prefer the Phil 3's to the others though they all have their strengths. If I had to choose just one, it would be the Phil 3's.
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Old 01-13-2016, 02:54 PM
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I think Revel makes great speakers and have a lot of respect for Harmon and its companies in general. My experience with Revel speakers is limited though having only owned F12's, F32's and M22's (as well as JBL PT800's which are similar to Revel Gems) and having listened to a friend's F52's quite a bit. That said, I always found the highs on the Revel Performa series, granted they were last gen, to be fatiguing after a while. The PT800's which shared a midrange with the original Revel Gems were the same though I didn't have that issue with the F12's I had. What I also found was that if I cut the treble on the speaker, I lost too much.

This may be because the Performas used metal dome tweeters and the F12's didn't and is also probably because I am so used to ribbon tweeters from the many years I have owned Magnepans. I also haven't heard the gen 3 Performa series speakers yet.

I currently own a pair of Phil 3's, a pair of Phil Slims, KEF LS50's and Magnepan 3.6's. I will say that I prefer the Phil 3's to the others though they all have their strengths. If I had to choose just one, it would be the Phil 3's.
I've never heard the 32s or 52s, but I own both the M22s and F12s, and I concur - the M22s seem brighter to me. However, the F12s do use metal tweeters IIRC.
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Old 01-13-2016, 05:52 PM
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I'm very eagerly awaiting the arrival of my Phil 3s. Dennis knows only too well the challenges I've faced with international shipping of the speakers .

Regarding tweeter fatigue and clarity (Revel v RAAL), have owners noticed much change in sound of the ribbons over initial months? As mechanical transducers, do they go through some sort of 'run-in'?

My current bedroom speakers have ribbon tweeters also, and I'd swear that the tweeters have experienced significant 'opening up' since first used. This has been over a 1 year period, so I'm not talking about first week or first month run-in. There has been some swapping in and out of amps, but even on the same amp it seems to me that the ribbons have changed from reserved to very neutral over time. In contrast the main system speakers continue to be too bright, which is what prompted the purchase of the Phil 3s.
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