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post #541 of 4724 Old 02-08-2012, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grubadub View Post

too bad gisele wasn't on that route. she would've wrestled it away from the linebacker for sure


but i digress. what would be the minimum size room needed for these phil2's?

Any speaker with strong bass down to 32 Hz is going to have to be away from corners or a side wall by at least a couple of feet. The 2's don't have to be all that far into the room, since the upper cabinet is shorter than the bass cabinet, and you will still get some rear wave ambiance and imaging depth. But it would be best if the bottom cabinets were 2 feet from the back wall. So I guess that means the room should be around 15' X 18' to take good advantage of their design intent.
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post #542 of 4724 Old 02-08-2012, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grubadub View Post

actually, i'm house hunting so i don't know yet. thanks for the response.

In that case, give the speakers over 6 feet from the side walls, 9+ feet from each other, 20+ foot ceiling and 9+ feet from you, and your head 10 feet from the wall behind. The imaging I imagine would be unbelivable.

However such placement can often cause some boundary cancelations in the bass. It's a strong arguement for rolling in a pair or quad of subs below 100hz
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post #543 of 4724 Old 02-19-2012, 12:53 PM
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I might have missed it, but are there any pics of the philharmonic-1 center around anywhere?

Check out my WAF approved living room theater


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post #544 of 4724 Old 02-19-2012, 02:06 PM
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This is one of Del's designs I will be getting!

Just the baffle shown here.....
LL
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post #545 of 4724 Old 02-19-2012, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsart View Post

This is one of Del's designs I will be getting!

Just the baffle shown here.....

It looks awesome! Kinda looks like a happy face. =P

HAVE:

Receiver: Marantz SR6004
Speakers: Philharmonic 2; TagMclaren Calliope; Pioneer BS-22
Sub: W15GTI MKII (Tuned to 20hz; 300 liter enclosure) X 2
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post #546 of 4724 Old 02-19-2012, 03:04 PM
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...

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post #547 of 4724 Old 02-19-2012, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsart View Post

This is one of Del's designs I will be getting!

Just the baffle shown here.....

Actually, that's the whole speaker. You just can't see the sides. It's kind of expensive because the cabinets have to be constructed locally rather than sourced in quantity from over there someplace. I'll eventually have a cheaper alternative, but right now it's $650 per. The woofers are the same as the ones used in the SongTower, and the tweeter is taken from the Phil 1. I can also do a version using the RAAL, but that's an extra $200.
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post #548 of 4724 Old 02-20-2012, 04:03 AM
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Hey Dennis, have you done anything with the crossover in the center to mitigate wave interference issues?

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #549 of 4724 Old 02-20-2012, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsart View Post

This is one of Del's designs I will be getting!

Just the baffle shown here.....

That looks great! You'll be all set once it arrives.


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post #550 of 4724 Old 02-20-2012, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

Hey Dennis, have you done anything with the crossover in the center to mitigate wave interference issues?

To the best of my knowledge, there's nothing you can do in a crossover to overcome woofer interferrence effects off axis in an MTM design. The issue is whether you will really be sitting far enough off axis for that to be a problem. I don't think it will be for 90% of applications. So many people have space constraints for centers that I decided not to go the WMTW route.
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post #551 of 4724 Old 02-20-2012, 09:46 AM
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Is it an optical illusion because it appears to be 2 " deep in the picture?
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Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

Actually, that's the whole speaker. You just can't see the sides. It's kind of expensive because the cabinets have to be constructed locally rather than sourced in quantity from over there someplace. I'll eventually have a cheaper alternative, but right now it's $650 per. The woofers are the same as the ones used in the SongTower, and the tweeter is taken from the Phil 1. I can also do a version using the RAAL, but that's an extra $200.


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post #552 of 4724 Old 02-20-2012, 09:50 AM
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I think a single Philharmonitor would be a solution to that problem.Is a single Philharmonitor about the same cost as the center?
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

Hey Dennis, have you done anything with the crossover in the center to mitigate wave interference issues?


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post #553 of 4724 Old 02-20-2012, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by klh007 View Post

I think a single Philharmonitor would be a solution to that problem.Is a single Philharmonitor about the same cost as the center?

If you can mount the center vertically, then a single monitor would work. A single one would be a little cheaper than one center. A single ER18 woofer is cheaper than 2 ER15's, and the cabinet cost is a little less.
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post #554 of 4724 Old 02-20-2012, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

To the best of my knowledge, there's nothing you can do in a crossover to overcome woofer interferrence effects off axis in an MTM design. The issue is whether you will really be sitting far enough off axis for that to be a problem. I don't think it will be for 90% of applications. So many people have space constraints for centers that I decided not to go the WMTW route.

I thought some people had designed the crossovers where the woofers produce distinctly different octaves in order to minimize interference.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #555 of 4724 Old 02-20-2012, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

I thought some people had designed the crossovers where the woofers produce distinctly different octaves in order to minimize interference.

You're thinking of a 2.5 MMT In an MTM, you can shift down the interferrence point by adjusting the crossover, but there's a limit to how low a tweeter can be used, particularly a ribbon tweeter. You will still run into interferrence effects in the 1500-2500 Hz range.
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post #556 of 4724 Old 02-20-2012, 12:24 PM
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I see. Thanks Dennis!

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #557 of 4724 Old 02-22-2012, 02:46 PM
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Hey Dennis,

This center with the fountek will work with the 2s ok right?
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post #558 of 4724 Old 02-22-2012, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsart View Post

Hey Dennis,

This center with the fountek will work with the 2s ok right?

In HT applications, I'm sure it will. And in 95% of music applications, I doubt anyone would know that the tweeters aren't identical. But I am offering a version with the RAAL tweeter for an extra $200 for people who absolutely want an array of 3 RAALs on the front end.
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post #559 of 4724 Old 02-23-2012, 04:52 AM
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Thanks, Dennis, sounds good to me.
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post #560 of 4724 Old 02-23-2012, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

Actually, that's the whole speaker. You just can't see the sides. It's kind of expensive because the cabinets have to be constructed locally rather than sourced in quantity from over there someplace. I'll eventually have a cheaper alternative, but right now it's $650 per. The woofers are the same as the ones used in the SongTower, and the tweeter is taken from the Phil 1. I can also do a version using the RAAL, but that's an extra $200.

$650 per center speaker is not bad at all IMO.

The only concern is the height of the center speaker. Most folks might need a slender version.

What is the height of the center compared to the monitor?
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post #561 of 4724 Old 02-23-2012, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

$650 per center speaker is not bad at all IMO.

The only concern is the height of the center speaker. Most folks might need a slender version.

What is the height of the center compared to the monitor?

The center is 9.5" high when placed horizontally. It's 19.5" wide.
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post #562 of 4724 Old 02-26-2012, 07:02 PM
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Dennis - The Philharmonic 2 are amazing. Thanks for all your thoughts on my room and music tastes and what would work well.






and 10 feet of cat since its the internet



I have ordered the center and should get it soon, will update accordingly (and move the sub back over to the right a few feet)

REW...most expensive freeware ever...

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post #563 of 4724 Old 02-26-2012, 07:31 PM
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CONGRATULATIONS! Twylight!!!!!
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post #564 of 4724 Old 02-26-2012, 07:35 PM
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And thanks for taking the time to report and take many, many pics in your Black Hole room that lets no light in or out. Your center will go out tomorrow or Tuesday.
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post #565 of 4724 Old 02-29-2012, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

The center is 9.5" high when placed horizontally. It's 19.5" wide.

Ahh, so disappointed! I've finally talked myself (and my wife) into Philharmonic 2 (with some consultation as to room placement), but have just had delivered my custom-designed HT furniture with shelf that's 9.25" for center channel. One of us will need to do a lot of sanding!

Back to plan A.

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post #566 of 4724 Old 02-29-2012, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Ahh, so disappointed! I've finally talked myself (and my wife) into Philharmonic 2 (with some consultation as to room placement), but have just had delivered my custom-designed HT furniture with shelf that's 9.25" for center channel. One of us will need to do a lot of sanding!

It seems to me, that if you're using a sub, you can cross a sealed version of the center at the F3 = 100hz. That should reduce box size requirements by a good bit.

Or I suppose it could be made shorter and wider.

*shrug* Or you could go Phantom Center..........
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post #567 of 4724 Old 02-29-2012, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Ahh, so disappointed! I've finally talked myself (and my wife) into Philharmonic 2 (with some consultation as to room placement), but have just had delivered my custom-designed HT furniture with shelf that's 9.25" for center channel. One of us will need to do a lot of sanding!

Back to plan A.

That was the reason I asked for the dimensions.

A lot of folks need center speakers that are only 8" or less in horizontal height.

For example, all the KEF center speakers are 7.5" height.
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post #568 of 4724 Old 02-29-2012, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Eternal Velocity View Post


*shrug* Or you could go Phantom Center..........

An opinion I read online:

"First things first--center channel speakers do one thing really well--they anchor dialog to the screen for listeners sitting over to the left or right sides of home theaters. So if your family or friends watch movies together, I'd definitely recommend using a center channel speaker.

But for one or two people sitting directly in front of their TV a center isn't necessary, and almost always sounds less good than the left and right speakers. Center speakers tend to sound boxy, so Denzel Washington sounds like he's in a box. Ditch the center and your A/V receiver will redirect the center channel sound over to the left and right speakers. They have the advantage of not being in front of a display, which unfortunately acts like a large reflector behind the center, which messes with the sound. You will of course, need to go in the receiver's speaker setup menu and "turn off" the center channel speaker output to implement the change.

Also, the typical horizontal woofer/tweeter/woofer center design is a flawed concept (three-way center speakers that centrally position the midrange driver under the tweeter are better). In any case, center speakers rarely tonally match the left/right speakers, upsetting the illusion of a seamless soundstage. Yes, the center's responsibilities loom large--on movies the center conveys almost all the dialog, a lot of effects, and some music. That's why all of that will likely sound better over the left/right front speakers. Oh, and it wouldn't be a bad idea to "rechannel" the money you saved by not buying a center speaker into better left/right speakers. That strategy would result in better overall sound."

HAVE:

Receiver: Marantz SR6004
Speakers: Philharmonic 2; TagMclaren Calliope; Pioneer BS-22
Sub: W15GTI MKII (Tuned to 20hz; 300 liter enclosure) X 2
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post #569 of 4724 Old 02-29-2012, 11:22 AM
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I can see that for superficial reasons, people do want centers, but unless they listen to a lot of multichannel music, I don't think they're worth it.

I know I took my "matching center channel", and then packed it up and put it in a box. It doesn't matter if i'm sitting way off axis from the TV or right on-axis... phantom center just sounds better to my ears in my room with my speakers. Whether that's watching movies, or sports, i just never felt like i was hearing "reproduction" with a center in place.

If I had a room for a true multichannel music setup (three matching speakers up front, spread apart widely with plenty of space to the sides) I'd try out a center channel again. But I'll never again let matching center channels be a deciding factor in any purchase I make. It's an aesthetic consideration IMO, rather than one based on SQ.
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post #570 of 4724 Old 02-29-2012, 11:25 AM
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The Phil2 shows very good off-axis response. Wouldn't the 2s just "anchor" the dialog to people sitting off axis?

HAVE:

Receiver: Marantz SR6004
Speakers: Philharmonic 2; TagMclaren Calliope; Pioneer BS-22
Sub: W15GTI MKII (Tuned to 20hz; 300 liter enclosure) X 2
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