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post #5791 of 5807 Old 02-22-2017, 03:31 PM
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Dennis can you comment on the quality differences between the OEM 64-10 you use in the Phils and the more commonly available and expensive 70-10 and 70-20 versions? At some point in my life, I want to DIY a speaker and my speaker will def have RAALs in it. MadisonSound has the 70-20, but those are $300 each! I am just wondering if the larger and heavier version of the RAAL is really much better? And in what ways....

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: Philharmonics- BMR in a 2.0 system, music only
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post #5792 of 5807 Old 02-22-2017, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
Dennis can you comment on the quality differences between the OEM 64-10 you use in the Phils and the more commonly available and expensive 70-10 and 70-20 versions? At some point in my life, I want to DIY a speaker and my speaker will def have RAALs in it. MadisonSound has the 70-20, but those are $300 each! I am just wondering if the larger and heavier version of the RAAL is really much better? And in what ways....
Well, if you were holding the two in your hands, you would know that the more expensive RAAL must be doing something better. It weighs way more. The beefier innards allow a lower crossover point, and that's very important in a 2-way design. I know of only 3 woofers that will work well with the 64-10, and I'm using two of them (Ascend Dave is using the other one). In a 3-way, the difference is much less important. I would still give a slight edge to the 70-10 in terms of distortion below 4 kHz, but probably not enough to justify the price difference if you're crossing above, say, 3700 Hz.
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post #5793 of 5807 Old 02-22-2017, 03:55 PM
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Dennis, if I were to order a set of BMRs and an MTM, how far out are you from shipping?
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post #5794 of 5807 Old 02-22-2017, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post
Those are the prototypes for the sealed .25 cu ft version of the Quasi-Affordables discussed above. Thanks for posting.
Curious again Dennis....Isee your Quasi woofer has a phase plug(Zaph Audio ZA14W08 5" Aluminum Cone). What advantages does that offer? I never quite understood the advanages of phase plug...like a waveguide?

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: Philharmonics- BMR in a 2.0 system, music only
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post #5795 of 5807 Old 02-22-2017, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
Curious again Dennis....Isee your Quasi woofer has a phase plug(Zaph Audio ZA14W08 5" Aluminum Cone). What advantages does that offer? I never quite understood the advanages of phase plug...like a waveguide?
Like all things audio, phase plugs are controversial. On horn-loaded compression drivers, they may in fact function as a kind of reverse wave guide. On a conventional woofer, the theoretical purpose, and the basis for the name, is to help prevent cancellations toward the top of the operating range caused by sound waves moving across the cone meeting out of phase and canceling themselves out. It's not clear, however, that the wave guide is big enough to help. The other purpose is to reduce cone mass. The plug is not part of the cone--the cone travels back and forth around the plug. You therefore don't need a dust cap to protect the otherwise open motor assembly. I suspect that's why it's used on the Zaph aluminum driver. It may help push the breakup point higher, which is in fact very high on the Zaph, which allows a higher crossover point. The utility of the plug is very dependent on the particular woofer being used. I know that Ascend decided the Seas "Curve" 6" driver worked better without the stock phase plug. But other Ascend speakers use drivers with phase plugs.
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post #5796 of 5807 Old 02-22-2017, 11:12 PM
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How does one order these speakers or talk to someone about them before ordering?
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post #5797 of 5807 Old 02-22-2017, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mds2004 View Post
How does one order these speakers or talk to someone about them before ordering?
Really simple. You email info@philharmonicaudio.com with your questions and most likely Mr Murphy will get back to you in a few hours.
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post #5798 of 5807 Old 02-22-2017, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Boro View Post
Really simple. You email info@philharmonicaudio.com with your questions and most likely Mr Murphy will get back to you in a few hours.
Thanks I just sent another email. Maybe the first one got stuck in his spam.
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post #5799 of 5807 Old Yesterday, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by mds2004 View Post
Dennis, if I were to order a set of BMRs and an MTM, how far out are you from shipping?
The Phil-BMR is a fabulous speaker that for me, does everything right. I want crystal clear highs that aren't overemphasized and the RAAL does that to perfection. The BMR midrange just disappears into the background and is seemless- a transition from my EMPs, which tend to be a bit midrange hot which is great for HT, but not so great for music. And man, that woofer can hit low! Dennis says mid 30hz, and I don't doubt that one bit.
The only drawback I can see with the speaker is raw dimensions! This ain't a desktop speaker...

The only other thing I would say is that for HT, my EMPs are fine. I tried the Phil-BMR in the HT setting and they were very good there as well. However, the RAAL, the real star of this speaker, wasn't as impression for HT content and the improved clarity often got lost by the LFE/and midrange content of most movie soundtracks. Not a flaw in the speaker, just that for what most action movies produce, well, the RAAL is still better than my soft domes in the EMPs, but the difference is less obvious that it is for critical music- put on some well recorded Mozart, crank the volume to mid levels and close your eyes- a symphony will appear around you! I don't listen to much multichannel music, but if I did, the Phil-BMR with the MTM center and a set of the new quasiaffordable phil as surrounds...a guy can dream!

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: Philharmonics- BMR in a 2.0 system, music only
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post #5800 of 5807 Old Yesterday, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
The Phil-BMR is a fabulous speaker that for me, does everything right. I want crystal clear highs that aren't overemphasized and the RAAL does that to perfection. The BMR midrange just disappears into the background and is seemless- a transition from my EMPs, which tend to be a bit midrange hot which is great for HT, but not so great for music. And man, that woofer can hit low! Dennis says mid 30hz, and I don't doubt that one bit.
The only drawback I can see with the speaker is raw dimensions! This ain't a desktop speaker...

The only other thing I would say is that for HT, my EMPs are fine. I tried the Phil-BMR in the HT setting and they were very good there as well. However, the RAAL, the real star of this speaker, wasn't as impression for HT content and the improved clarity often got lost by the LFE/and midrange content of most movie soundtracks. Not a flaw in the speaker, just that for what most action movies produce, well, the RAAL is still better than my soft domes in the EMPs, but the difference is less obvious that it is for critical music- put on some well recorded Mozart, crank the volume to mid levels and close your eyes- a symphony will appear around you! I don't listen to much multichannel music, but if I did, the Phil-BMR with the MTM center and a set of the new quasiaffordable phil as surrounds...a guy can dream!
Thank you for the detailed post. This setup will be going into our living room where HT is 65% and music is about 35% so I am looking for a great all round setup where my budget is $2000-$2500 for just the front three speakers. I believe these will do the trick where I will not be wanting more, especially while listening to music. Unfortunately, I will need to stick with bookshelves but thankfully I am building an entertainment center around them so I can still accommodate the size of the BMRs.
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post #5801 of 5807 Old Yesterday, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
The Phil-BMR is a fabulous speaker that for me, does everything right. I want crystal clear highs that aren't overemphasized and the RAAL does that to perfection. The BMR midrange just disappears into the background and is seemless- a transition from my EMPs, which tend to be a bit midrange hot which is great for HT, but not so great for music.
Interesting...I have no doubt the BMR are in a whole other league of course, but I never would have thought of my R5Bi as "midrange hot." IIRC, you also used to own Ascends...did you find them "midrange hot" as well?

I'd be curious to hear how a RAAL tweeter sounds vs the cheaper leaf tweeter (forgot the precise name/typology) used in the Chanes.

Hypothetical question: if you HAD to listen to a bad 128kbps recording on your BMR vs on say, the Ascend 340, which would you choose?

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #5802 of 5807 Old Yesterday, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Interesting...I have no doubt the BMR are in a whole other league of course, but I never would have thought of my R5Bi as "midrange hot." IIRC, you also used to own Ascends...did you find them "midrange hot" as well?

I'd be curious to hear how a RAAL tweeter sounds vs the cheaper leaf tweeter (forgot the precise name/typology) used in the Chanes.

Hypothetical question: if you HAD to listen to a bad 128kbps recording on your BMR vs on say, the Ascend 340, which would you choose?
No, the Ascend Acoust CMT340 are not midrange emphasized. perhaps midrange hot is too strong, but the measurements show a slight bump. I would classify both the EMP and AA as mostly neutral...
i haven't heard the Chanes, but do own a folded leaf tweeter speaker (the old and 10 year ago famous SLS Q line gold)...those are cheap leafs and while very clear, they cannot be very clear AND very loud. High end breaks up at higher levels...
Last, there are some recording and lots of things recorded on you tube, that are unlistenable on ANY SPEAKER. I Will lusten on the BMR before any other speaker in the house any day, however. if they sound bad on my BMR, they will sound bad on my Def Techs...
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Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: Philharmonics- BMR in a 2.0 system, music only

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post #5803 of 5807 Old Yesterday, 10:33 AM
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I should add that I have several mp3 format music recording that are almost certainly recorded from old vinyl records, complete with scratches and background noise. They are not listenable at my house on anything except maybe cheap Apple ear buds, which I NEVER use!

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: Philharmonics- BMR in a 2.0 system, music only
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post #5804 of 5807 Unread Today, 01:22 PM
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How do the slims compare to the sierra's towers. Anybody hear both? I'm looking for which one has the better punch down low. Also I assume the raal is not bright? I went today to Best Buy magnolia store to listen to a few different speakers and fell in love with the sonus faber olympica 3. So I'm looking for something close in sound that doesn't cost $13000, well $9000 was the close out price today. I might have paid $5000 but I would be enjoying my speakers alone after wife divorced me. Any comments would be great.


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post #5805 of 5807 Unread Today, 04:10 PM
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The RAAL that Dennis uses is not bright. Crystal clear, detailed and the overall sound of the speaker is very nuetral. I own the Phil-BMR, but my brother owns a used set of Phil slims. Beautful, clear and articulate and they can hit pretty low...

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: Philharmonics- BMR in a 2.0 system, music only
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post #5806 of 5807 Unread Today, 07:26 PM
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is the budget aa rear ported? looking for one for close to wall,desktop
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post #5807 of 5807 Unread Today, 07:57 PM
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is the budget aa rear ported? looking for one for close to wall,desktop
It's rear ported (which is considered best practice). However, they will still work if you can get 6" clear behind the port.
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