Philharmonic Audio - Dennis Murphy - Page 205 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6121 of 6178 Old 08-13-2017, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Mudslide View Post
I have my Phil2s in a 25x27 room, open floor plan, mostly hard surfaces, half full upper cabinets, woofers ~18" from walls. Love my Phils!
Thanks.
I am still loving my 3s and the rest of the speakers that Dennis put together. So good!
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post #6122 of 6178 Old 08-13-2017, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
@DennisMurphy

Stupid question why not named speakers DennisHarmonic? Where does the Phil come into play??
Just a curious question

This came up in bar talk, talking about speakers when I said what I had...the young man said why didn't the speaker creator name his speakers DennisHarmonic? I said good question I'll ask....
I'm guessing none of you friends are into Classical music.
Philharmonic is like saying Symphony. Or like the word Band, Chore, group, etc.
I don't think it has any thing to do with a person named Phil.

Quote:
“Philharmonic,” a word we started using in English in 1813, roughly means “loving harmony.” It too is commonly used to describe large, multi-instrument ensembles.
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post #6123 of 6178 Old 08-13-2017, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ad5wb View Post
Room size is tough because it is an open floor plan. But, say 21ft x 21 ft approximately for main listening area.
Very live acoutic environment with lots of hard surface.
Back of woofer cabinet approximately 12 inches from wall.
I originally pulled about half of the fill out. Just took it down to roughly 1/4 of what was in there. Mine was packed tight.
Still loving those 3's ?
Yes, we are definitely loving them. I tried very sparse fill and found voices lost coherence. I did like that (sparse) better for Jazz, but overall like moderate fill. Probably, we should all weigh the fill. Mine have a fair amount of the material that Dennis uses to line the upper box. So, I already have some "fill, but may not directly influence sound coming out creating ambience. I also have lx521 speakers in theater setup with no backing. Definitely, need these to be farther from wall.

I like female voices better out of the phil3, but bass is tighter out of the lx521s. Love them both...

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post #6124 of 6178 Old 08-13-2017, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by canyoncreek View Post
I like female voices better out of the phil3, but bass is tighter out of the lx521s. Love them both...

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I know the Phil3's are full range but I think I would still pair them with a couple of Salk subs (with matching finish) crossed over at 60hz or lower.
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post #6125 of 6178 Old 08-13-2017, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Blacklightning View Post
I know the Phil3's are full range but I think I would still pair them with a couple of Salk subs (with matching finish) crossed over at 60hz or lower.
Those look like rythmik based. I already have a f15h and a e15h. My wife would have serious problems with more boxes. The phil3s were a struggle...

But when she goes to visit family, maybe I'll borrow a dolly and try this out!!!

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post #6126 of 6178 Old 08-13-2017, 09:23 AM
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lol, no need those are Rythmik units in a "better" box.
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post #6127 of 6178 Old 08-13-2017, 09:39 AM
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I have visited Dennis at his home and saw a Grand piano, or (Baby Grand) and a Violin. I think that is when it was obvious to me that he loved music very much. Dennis is currently the assistant principal violist in the Washington Philharmonic Orchestra and also plays lead violin in two tango orchestras. This info is on his website and I think the inspiration for the Philharmonic Speakers. Correct me Dennis if I am wrong, but I believe I am right!

Robert


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post #6128 of 6178 Old 08-13-2017, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Blacklightning View Post
lol, no need those are Rythmik units in a "better" box.
But they are not being used with the phil3s. I have a xsp-1 preamp that I could use to do the crossover. I am not disappointed in them, just a difference.

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post #6129 of 6178 Old 08-13-2017, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by woodsart View Post
I have visited Dennis at his home and saw a Grand piano, or (Baby Grand) and a Violin. I think that is when it was obvious to me that he loved music very much. Dennis is currently the assistant principal violist in the Washington Philharmonic Orchestra and also plays lead violin in two tango orchestras. This info is on his website and I think the inspiration for the Philharmonic Speakers. Correct me Dennis if I am wrong, but I believe I am right!

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Well based on the last page or so of discussion clearly it should have been Fillharmonic Audio!
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post #6130 of 6178 Old 08-13-2017, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by canyoncreek View Post
But they are not being used with the phil3s. I have a xsp-1 preamp that I could use to do the crossover. I am not disappointed in them, just a difference.

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Yes, OB bass is hard to match. At least that is what I have read. I have not heard OB bass. I did have a chance to heard GR Research Super V's but I did not make the drive.
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post #6131 of 6178 Old 08-16-2017, 11:56 AM
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thanks to woodsart, i have a mtm center channel that matches my philharmonitor 2's making its way across the country as i type. now i just need something to power the speaker. looking at the cambridge audio cxr120 receiver. it doesn't have fancy features like dolby atmos, but it's be praised as being a great HT receiver for folks who like to listen to music a lot as well! excited to be getting the center - just not sure when i'll have it up and running.
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post #6132 of 6178 Old 08-16-2017, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jomama View Post
thanks to woodsart, i have a mtm center channel that matches my philharmonitor 2's making its way across the country as i type. now i just need something to power the speaker. looking at the cambridge audio cxr120 receiver. it doesn't have fancy features like dolby atmos, but it's be praised as being a great HT receiver for folks who like to listen to music a lot as well! excited to be getting the center - just not sure when i'll have it up and running.
NAD receivers are 4 ohm stable.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #6133 of 6178 Old 08-22-2017, 09:11 AM
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Hypothetical Subwoofer(s) recommendation with Phil3

I realize that it may be heresy to contemplate adding subs to these excellent full range speakers. However, even my wife asked why these speakers sound so much better than the previous ones with voice, but not quite as nice for her "Hip-Hop" moments. Don't laugh too hard as we are both mid 50's professional whites. The previous "Hip-Hop" speakers (BSI Model 4) had built-in dual 10" Scanspeak 26W/8861T with amp augmenting a MTM using Scanspeak 18WU/8741T and their Be tweeter. Very imposing speakers, but they were clean bass beasts and could fully bass load the large room.

So, I have a Rythmik F15HP serving LFE duties in our HT area and a very underutilized E15HP in our bedroom setup with some monitors (Wish I had gotten the Phil Monitors).
My first thought is to try just the one E15HP crossed over at 50-60Hz. The space is pretty large. Basically a large open room with vaulted ceiling.
Other ideas include buying another E15HP or should I look at 2xF12? This system is solely for music. Pretty much all music types including some Classical, Jazz, classic rock, 80's rock, new rock, Blues guitar, Jazz vocals, Singer song writer, etc...
1) Use the one E15HP
2) Get a second E15HP
3) Buy two other subs? F12, other...Rythmik office is literally two blocks from my office.

Thanks!!!
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post #6134 of 6178 Old 08-22-2017, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by canyoncreek View Post
I realize that it may be heresy to contemplate adding subs to these excellent full range speakers. However, even my wife asked why these speakers sound so much better than the previous ones with voice, but not quite as nice for her "Hip-Hop" moments. Don't laugh too hard as we are both mid 50's professional whites. The previous "Hip-Hop" speakers (BSI Model 4) had built-in dual 10" Scanspeak 26W/8861T with amp augmenting a MTM using Scanspeak 18WU/8741T and their Be tweeter. Very imposing speakers, but they were clean bass beasts and could fully bass load the large room.

So, I have a Rythmik F15HP serving LFE duties in our HT area and a very underutilized E15HP in our bedroom setup with some monitors (Wish I had gotten the Phil Monitors).
My first thought is to try just the one E15HP crossed over at 50-60Hz. The space is pretty large. Basically a large open room with vaulted ceiling.
Other ideas include buying another E15HP or should I look at 2xF12? This system is solely for music. Pretty much all music types including some Classical, Jazz, classic rock, 80's rock, new rock, Blues guitar, Jazz vocals, Singer song writer, etc...
1) Use the one E15HP
2) Get a second E15HP
3) Buy two other subs? F12, other...Rythmik office is literally two blocks from my office.

Thanks!!!
Just to remind people, we're talking Phil 3's and not BMR's. I think the issue for you is simply cone surface area. Although the 3's can go as low as a lot of subs, there's only so much air one 8" woofer per side can move. So for home theater and some types of really bass-rich program material, I can see where a sub or two would up the ante. I would just try one and see where you are. But I'm sure there are a lot of more sub-savvy posters out there who can give you more specific advice.
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post #6135 of 6178 Old 08-22-2017, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canyoncreek View Post
I realize that it may be heresy to contemplate adding subs to these excellent full range speakers. However, even my wife asked why these speakers sound so much better than the previous ones with voice, but not quite as nice for her "Hip-Hop" moments.
Thanks!!!
The 3's are great for normal music but hip-hop is boosted, high energy, electronically generated bass. People want boom, boom, boom. That requires moving large masses of air.
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post #6136 of 6178 Old 08-22-2017, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by charmerci View Post
The 3's are great for normal music but hip-hop is boosted, high energy, electronically generated bass. People want boom, boom, boom. That requires moving large masses of air.
In my opinion in order to do that subwoofer (s) are a necessity...............taking absolutely nothing away from the 3's of course.
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post #6137 of 6178 Old 08-22-2017, 01:12 PM
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Talk to Dennis I'm sure you are not the first person wanting to mate a sub with the 3's. Your options range from Dual F8's to the future F18, Dennis will know best.
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post #6138 of 6178 Old 08-22-2017, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Blacklightning View Post
Talk to Dennis I'm sure you are not the first person wanting to mate a sub with the 3's. Your options range from Dual F8's to the future F18, Dennis will know best.
Actually, I won't. I have no experience with contemporary subs other than a $100 puppy from Parts Express. I have home brew subs in my HT, and none in my main listening room.
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post #6139 of 6178 Old 08-26-2017, 11:30 AM
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Long Term Support

I have been buying speakers for 40 years, and most of the brands purchased either go out of business or the drivers in these speakers are no longer available.
The BMR midrange used in the Philharmonitor would appear to be a custom unit. (And possibly the RAAL unit???)
Do you plan on stockpiling these units in case people need replacements?
For me this is a major consideration in deciding to buy these speakers!
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post #6140 of 6178 Old 08-26-2017, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by chobrecht View Post
I have been buying speakers for 40 years, and most of the brands purchased either go out of business or the drivers in these speakers are no longer available.
The BMR midrange used in the Philharmonitor would appear to be a custom unit. (And possibly the RAAL unit???)
Do you plan on stockpiling these units in case people need replacements?
For me this is a major consideration in deciding to buy these speakers!
I'd ask Dennis to buy you an extra of each driver that you can store. I don't think these are truly custom. Maybe oem versions.

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post #6141 of 6178 Old 08-26-2017, 11:51 AM
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I'd ask Dennis to buy you an extra of each driver that you can store. I don't think these are truly custom. Maybe oem versions.

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A very very curious question indeed.

Once, back in the seventies, I bought a pair of JBL speakers and immediately blew up the woofers being an idiot with the volume control with a receiver that completely exceeded the power handling of the speakers; replaced under warranty.

I've owned dozens of speakers since then and never ever replaced a single driver.

All 7 of the B&W speakers I bought in the nineties, for example, are still in use daily by myself, family and friends.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #6142 of 6178 Old 08-26-2017, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by chobrecht View Post
I have been buying speakers for 40 years, and most of the brands purchased either go out of business or the drivers in these speakers are no longer available.
The BMR midrange used in the Philharmonitor would appear to be a custom unit. (And possibly the RAAL unit???)
Do you plan on stockpiling these units in case people need replacements?
For me this is a major consideration in deciding to buy these speakers!
The BMR midrange and woofer are readily available from Parts Express and Madisound, respectively. They are produced by established companies. The tweeter is OEM, but RAAL is not exactly a fly-by-night establishment. I don't think driver availability should be a major concern in making a purchase decision.
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post #6143 of 6178 Old 08-28-2017, 02:41 PM
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dennis - now that i'm the proud new owner of woodsart's MTM center channel that you built, i wanted to ask you about positioning. should the height of the tweeters of the 3 speakers be aligned for best performance, or is it not that crucial? could i place the center channel at a lower position and tilt it upwards slightly? the two L/R speakers i'm running are the philharmonitor 2's that i purchased a good 6 years ago. they are the parts express .75 cu ft curved speakers. thanks in advance for your insight.
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post #6144 of 6178 Old 08-28-2017, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jomama View Post
dennis - now that i'm the proud new owner of woodsart's MTM center channel that you built, i wanted to ask you about positioning. should the height of the tweeters of the 3 speakers be aligned for best performance, or is it not that crucial? could i place the center channel at a lower position and tilt it upwards slightly? the two L/R speakers i'm running are the philharmonitor 2's that i purchased a good 6 years ago. they are the parts express .75 cu ft curved speakers. thanks in advance for your insight.
HI. 6 years, huh. Time to retire. The tweeters don't have to be aligned, but if it's significantly below your listening axis, you should angle the speaker up to avoid a suck out at the crossover frequency.
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post #6145 of 6178 Old 08-28-2017, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post
The tweeters don't have to be aligned, but if it's significantly below your listening axis, you should angle the speaker up to avoid a suck out at the crossover frequency.
thanks for that info!

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HI. 6 years, huh. Time to retire.
are you saying it's time to upgrade to the BMRs?!
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post #6146 of 6178 Old 08-30-2017, 10:51 AM
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BMR Philharmonitor Review

BMR Philharmonitor Review
August 30, 2017

Summary

We have purchased BMR Philharmonitor loudspeakers and are very satisfied with the tonal quality and musical presentation of these loudspeakers. They have a very wide musical range, presenting jazz, rock and roll, vocalists, and small and large venue classical music with balance (both across the horizontal soundstage and in the high to low tonal range within the music) and beautiful tone quality. We can easily pick out and follow any melodic thread presented in the music. These are three-way speakers and each speaker component (cone or ribbon) is well-balanced with the other parts of the speaker: I was never able to detect a transition.

The sound is presented evenly throughout the room (after you back up several feet from the speakers) with no directional bias. You can consciously choose to listen to either the left or right speaker, but for normal listening purposes the musical source is from the center of the speakers, and across the wall between the speakers. Overall, you can close your eyes and feel that you are in the room with the musicians with these loudspeakers.

Note: our amplifier has 200 watts at 8 ohms of resistance, which is higher than the recommended input for these speakers. I have noticed distortion at a listening level far above where we usually listen to music and movies. This is not an issue for us.

We are happy with these speakers and would purchase from Philharmonic Audio again if we are in need of additional loudspeakers. The BMR Philharmonitors are among the best loudspeakers we have ever heard, and are the best loudspeakers we have heard for our personal requirements.

The purchase of audio equipment for an amateur over the web is a difficult process and we have written this review, in part, for those other amateurs who are searching for high-quality loudspeakers and would like additional perspective. My wife is artistic, but also the more practical and frugal partner in our marriage: she has approved of the speakers in spite of their expense, and will stand in the middle of the living room with her eyes closed, swaying and listening to music.

Background and Research

My wife and I appreciate music but are not audiophiles. We typically listen to one live music performance weekly, usually rock and roll, swing, or big band for dancing, and occasional classical music symphony performances. We started looking for new loudspeakers in the late spring. Loudspeakers are difficult to audition and we became frustrated with options to which we could listen easily. We were looking for high-quality 3-way bookshelf speakers that had good music presentation and could handle the power output of our Moon Aurora amplifier. We became intrigued with Philharmonic Audio because of Dennis Murphy’s experience as a sound engineer and as a musician, and liked his philosophy of delivering high quality music with a neutral loudspeaker platform. I researched Philharmonic Audio on AVForums, the BBB, and communicated directly with several purchasers of BMR Philharmonitor speakers.

It is very uncomfortable for us to buy audio equipment over the web. I became comfortable with the company and with these speakers after these interviews and we decided to purchase.

Order and Delivery

I communicated with Dennis about the differences between the standard and pre-fabricated BMR Philharmonitors and was assured there was no sound or quality difference, so we ordered the BMR Philharmonitors with the pre-fabricated cherry cabinets on August 2nd and received a Fedex delivery of two boxes on Wednesday, August 24th. The speakers were extremely well-protected within the shipment boxes. The curved cherry cabinets are satin finished with a fine wood grain, are understated and elegant, and a nice example of industrial design. These are heavy, sturdy cabinets. The loudspeakers blend right into our living room, which has a lot of cherry and oak in it.

Equipment and Room Layout

The speakers were installed in our living room, which is 18x27 feet in dimension, about 500 square feet. They are installed on the narrow corners of the rectangle. The speaker backs (which have ports) are 4-8 inches from the wall, and I have not noticed any bass distortion or boominess because of the proximity to the wall (with the exception of exceeding the input power capacity of the speakers, mentioned below).

There is a Moon Aurora amplifier (200 watts / 8 ohms / channel) and a Technics turntable to drive the music. I have found that I can overpower the speakers when I increase the volume past a comfortable listening level, and the sound will distort.

Speaker Evaluation – Music

We listened to a variety of music using our Technics turntable, with an analog signal and no digital signal enhancement. The experience was almost completely satisfactory. Some of the vocalists were harsher than we are used to.

Barbra Streisand and Yves Montand, On a Clear Day You Can Hear Forever: Barbra has her usual clear as a bell soprano voice. The chorus was slightly muffled. Yves Montand has some breathiness and a full, open voice with wonderful tenor and alto. The speakers show their high to low balance.

Mussorgsky, Pictures at an Exhibition, Eugene Ormandy directing the Philadelphia Orchestra: We can easily follow all musical themes presented in the music. The low bass violin is completely audible. Horns (trumpet and trombone) and reeds (clarinets) are full-voiced and extremely clear. There is a consistent sweet soundscape presented. All notes are full and clear, and the mid-range in particular is superb and balanced. Perhaps the bass is a little weaker in this presentation. All of the orchestral instruments were present and balanced.

Chet Atkins and Les Paul, Chester and Lester: You can very clearly hear the guitar picking and the harmonic synchronizations between these two great guitarists. The notes are full. Some of the hand picking on the bass guitar sounds a little buzzy. It really sounds like you are in the room with them when listening to this recording.

Wagner, Tristan and Isolde: The string orchestra clearly builds to a beautiful climax, and the violin, viola, cello, and bass violin melodies are cleanly distinguished. The music is full-bodied and clear, and presents across the entire soundscape.

Chuck Mangione, Feels so Good: This is just a brilliant album, and Mangione’s flugelhorn is just presented superbly. It is clear, crisp and (again) full bodied. The supporting percussion and guitar are beautifully presented, and the bass is completely adequate. If you close your eyes you are in the room with the band.

Vicki Sue Robinson, Turn the Beat Around: This is a loud, percussive discotheque song from the 1970’s. Vicki Sue’s voice is a clear soprano, not quite full and a little harsh through these speakers. She has remixed herself into the background and she has a smaller, smoother voice there. The percussion and horns are clear.

Eugene Fodor, Tchaikovsky solos: Eugene Fodor is a virtuoso violinist and he is beautifully presented with these speakers. You can sit back and listen to his bow and finger-work, with clean beautiful transitions and a full-bodied high violin. The mid-range is also presented smoothly here.

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Volume 1: Bruce Springsteen has his usual harshness, and James Taylor’s voice was smooth and full-bodied in Woodstock.

V.S.O.P: The Quintet: All of the abstract jazz was presented with clarity and precision. This is another album where you can feel you are in the room with the musicians.

Speaker Evaluation – Movies and Surround Sound

There is an equipment difference when we watch movies with surround sound. We are using a (late 2016 vintage) Sony XBR-55X930D 55 inch television and a Sony UPB-X800 Blue Ray Player (spring 2017). There are 4 Bose 161 speakers in use for surround sound, which are neutral, innocuous, and competent for the background speakers. Most (60-70%) of the sound for movies is directed through the BMR Philharmonitors. We are still adjusting this balance. The television is muted and the center channel is turned off, with those signals being added to the BMR’s. The sound signal goes from the Sony DVD player to the Moon Aurora amplifier to the BMR loudspeakers.

We have watched the DaVinci Code, and the BMR Philharmonitors fill the room with no directional bias, you can sit in anywhere in the back half of the room and not detect a sound difference. We cannot detect the lack of a center channel speaker: the BMR speakers spread the sound universally across the front of the room. The tonal quality is excellent and consistent with the music review above.

We also tested the bass volume using one of the battle scenes from the Lord of the Rings trilogy. The bass is completely adequate: I could actually feel the low rumble within the battle scene.

We feel completely in the scene with these speakers when watching movies. We will continue to listen to movies on these speakers, but at the moment do not see the need for either a center channel speaker or a sub-woofer.

Summary and Conclusions

Please go to the beginning of this article for the summary and conclusions.
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post #6147 of 6178 Old 08-30-2017, 07:11 PM
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BMR Philharmonitor Review
August 30, 2017

Summary

We have purchased BMR Philharmonitor loudspeakers and are very satisfied with the tonal quality and musical presentation of these loudspeakers. They have a very wide musical range, presenting jazz, rock and roll, vocalists, and small and large venue classical music with balance (both across the horizontal soundstage and in the high to low tonal range within the music) and beautiful tone quality. We can easily pick out and follow any melodic thread presented in the music. These are three-way speakers and each speaker component (cone or ribbon) is well-balanced with the other parts of the speaker: I was never able to detect a transition.

The sound is presented evenly throughout the room (after you back up several feet from the speakers) with no directional bias. You can consciously choose to listen to either the left or right speaker, but for normal listening purposes the musical source is from the center of the speakers, and across the wall between the speakers. Overall, you can close your eyes and feel that you are in the room with the musicians with these loudspeakers.

Note: our amplifier has 200 watts at 8 ohms of resistance, which is higher than the recommended input for these speakers. I have noticed distortion at a listening level far above where we usually listen to music and movies. This is not an issue for us.

We are happy with these speakers and would purchase from Philharmonic Audio again if we are in need of additional loudspeakers. The BMR Philharmonitors are among the best loudspeakers we have ever heard, and are the best loudspeakers we have heard for our personal requirements.

The purchase of audio equipment for an amateur over the web is a difficult process and we have written this review, in part, for those other amateurs who are searching for high-quality loudspeakers and would like additional perspective. My wife is artistic, but also the more practical and frugal partner in our marriage: she has approved of the speakers in spite of their expense, and will stand in the middle of the living room with her eyes closed, swaying and listening to music.

Background and Research

My wife and I appreciate music but are not audiophiles. We typically listen to one live music performance weekly, usually rock and roll, swing, or big band for dancing, and occasional classical music symphony performances. We started looking for new loudspeakers in the late spring. Loudspeakers are difficult to audition and we became frustrated with options to which we could listen easily. We were looking for high-quality 3-way bookshelf speakers that had good music presentation and could handle the power output of our Moon Aurora amplifier. We became intrigued with Philharmonic Audio because of Dennis Murphy’s experience as a sound engineer and as a musician, and liked his philosophy of delivering high quality music with a neutral loudspeaker platform. I researched Philharmonic Audio on AVForums, the BBB, and communicated directly with several purchasers of BMR Philharmonitor speakers.

It is very uncomfortable for us to buy audio equipment over the web. I became comfortable with the company and with these speakers after these interviews and we decided to purchase.

Order and Delivery

I communicated with Dennis about the differences between the standard and pre-fabricated BMR Philharmonitors and was assured there was no sound or quality difference, so we ordered the BMR Philharmonitors with the pre-fabricated cherry cabinets on August 2nd and received a Fedex delivery of two boxes on Wednesday, August 24th. The speakers were extremely well-protected within the shipment boxes. The curved cherry cabinets are satin finished with a fine wood grain, are understated and elegant, and a nice example of industrial design. These are heavy, sturdy cabinets. The loudspeakers blend right into our living room, which has a lot of cherry and oak in it.

Equipment and Room Layout

The speakers were installed in our living room, which is 18x27 feet in dimension, about 500 square feet. They are installed on the narrow corners of the rectangle. The speaker backs (which have ports) are 4-8 inches from the wall, and I have not noticed any bass distortion or boominess because of the proximity to the wall (with the exception of exceeding the input power capacity of the speakers, mentioned below).

There is a Moon Aurora amplifier (200 watts / 8 ohms / channel) and a Technics turntable to drive the music. I have found that I can overpower the speakers when I increase the volume past a comfortable listening level, and the sound will distort.

Speaker Evaluation – Music

We listened to a variety of music using our Technics turntable, with an analog signal and no digital signal enhancement. The experience was almost completely satisfactory. Some of the vocalists were harsher than we are used to.

Barbra Streisand and Yves Montand, On a Clear Day You Can Hear Forever: Barbra has her usual clear as a bell soprano voice. The chorus was slightly muffled. Yves Montand has some breathiness and a full, open voice with wonderful tenor and alto. The speakers show their high to low balance.

Mussorgsky, Pictures at an Exhibition, Eugene Ormandy directing the Philadelphia Orchestra: We can easily follow all musical themes presented in the music. The low bass violin is completely audible. Horns (trumpet and trombone) and reeds (clarinets) are full-voiced and extremely clear. There is a consistent sweet soundscape presented. All notes are full and clear, and the mid-range in particular is superb and balanced. Perhaps the bass is a little weaker in this presentation. All of the orchestral instruments were present and balanced.

Chet Atkins and Les Paul, Chester and Lester: You can very clearly hear the guitar picking and the harmonic synchronizations between these two great guitarists. The notes are full. Some of the hand picking on the bass guitar sounds a little buzzy. It really sounds like you are in the room with them when listening to this recording.

Wagner, Tristan and Isolde: The string orchestra clearly builds to a beautiful climax, and the violin, viola, cello, and bass violin melodies are cleanly distinguished. The music is full-bodied and clear, and presents across the entire soundscape.

Chuck Mangione, Feels so Good: This is just a brilliant album, and Mangione’s flugelhorn is just presented superbly. It is clear, crisp and (again) full bodied. The supporting percussion and guitar are beautifully presented, and the bass is completely adequate. If you close your eyes you are in the room with the band.

Vicki Sue Robinson, Turn the Beat Around: This is a loud, percussive discotheque song from the 1970’s. Vicki Sue’s voice is a clear soprano, not quite full and a little harsh through these speakers. She has remixed herself into the background and she has a smaller, smoother voice there. The percussion and horns are clear.

Eugene Fodor, Tchaikovsky solos: Eugene Fodor is a virtuoso violinist and he is beautifully presented with these speakers. You can sit back and listen to his bow and finger-work, with clean beautiful transitions and a full-bodied high violin. The mid-range is also presented smoothly here.

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Volume 1: Bruce Springsteen has his usual harshness, and James Taylor’s voice was smooth and full-bodied in Woodstock.

V.S.O.P: The Quintet: All of the abstract jazz was presented with clarity and precision. This is another album where you can feel you are in the room with the musicians.

Speaker Evaluation – Movies and Surround Sound

There is an equipment difference when we watch movies with surround sound. We are using a (late 2016 vintage) Sony XBR-55X930D 55 inch television and a Sony UPB-X800 Blue Ray Player (spring 2017). There are 4 Bose 161 speakers in use for surround sound, which are neutral, innocuous, and competent for the background speakers. Most (60-70%) of the sound for movies is directed through the BMR Philharmonitors. We are still adjusting this balance. The television is muted and the center channel is turned off, with those signals being added to the BMR’s. The sound signal goes from the Sony DVD player to the Moon Aurora amplifier to the BMR loudspeakers.

We have watched the DaVinci Code, and the BMR Philharmonitors fill the room with no directional bias, you can sit in anywhere in the back half of the room and not detect a sound difference. We cannot detect the lack of a center channel speaker: the BMR speakers spread the sound universally across the front of the room. The tonal quality is excellent and consistent with the music review above.

We also tested the bass volume using one of the battle scenes from the Lord of the Rings trilogy. The bass is completely adequate: I could actually feel the low rumble within the battle scene.

We feel completely in the scene with these speakers when watching movies. We will continue to listen to movies on these speakers, but at the moment do not see the need for either a center channel speaker or a sub-woofer.

Summary and Conclusions

Please go to the beginning of this article for the summary and conclusions.
Thanks very much for taking the time to report your experiences in such detail. I think it's clear from your review, but just to make sure--These are the prefabricated cabinet version of the BMR's that sell for $1,350/pr.
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post #6148 of 6178 Old 08-30-2017, 07:22 PM
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Thanks very much for taking the time to report your experiences in such detail. I think it's clear from your review, but just to make sure--These are the prefabricated cabinet version of the BMR's that sell for $1,350/pr.
Yes.
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So, I have a Rythmik F15HP serving LFE duties in our HT area and a very underutilized E15HP in our bedroom setup with some monitors (Wish I had gotten the Phil Monitors).
My first thought is to try just the one E15HP crossed over at 50-60Hz. The space is pretty large. Basically a large open room with vaulted ceiling.
Other ideas include buying another E15HP or should I look at 2xF12? This system is solely for music. Pretty much all music types including some Classical, Jazz, classic rock, 80's rock, new rock, Blues guitar, Jazz vocals, Singer song writer, etc...
1) Use the one E15HP
2) Get a second E15HP
3) Buy two other subs? F12, other...Rythmik office is literally two blocks from my office.
Since you already own the E15HP, I would start there. Integrate it into the Phil3 system and see if you and your wife are happy. If you are, then you're either done or you can buy a new sub for the bedroom.

If you're not satisfied with the E15HP paired with the Phil3, buy a second one! Rythmik lists the E15HP as +4db over the F12 so even going to two F12s likely won't help. As you said, I would try crossing the sub at 50Hz, possibly even lower (that's what I'm doing with my subs paired with BMRs for a mixed music / HT system).

You probably know this, but just in case: Integrating subs is fairly difficult. You need to find the right placement (sub crawl), find the best crossover, align the phase, and then set a gain that blends well while also giving you the "thump" you're looking for. Most AVRs will help with the integration, but relatively few stereo processors do. You also typically need one of the better room correction variants (e.g. Audyssey XT32) to handle a sub like the Rythmiks that go down to 14Hz.

I'm a big fan of multiple subs, which can sound much better across the whole listening space, but they're also much more difficult to integrate. Relatively few AVRs will independently integrate two subs. My approach has been to let the AVR handle the first one, and then I manually integrate the second one using a UMIK-1 and REW. Despite the hassle, I do think it's worth it. My BMRs sound wonderful, but my room is an acoustical mess, and the subs + BMR initially sounded awful together. It was exactly what audiophiles complains about: you could hear when the sub kicked in, it overpowered the mains, and the effect significantly detracted from the music. After calibration (which took a couple hours), the whole system sounds like an integrated whole and I'm very happy with the result for both music and HT.

One final thought since you already started down a path of blasphemy... You may have a case where running the mains full-range with the subs makes sense. That will make integration even harder, but you can think of it as a Geddes-style system since the Phil3 woofer is already so capable.
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post #6150 of 6178 Old 08-31-2017, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by obdav View Post
Since you already own the E15HP, I would start there. Integrate it into the Phil3 system and see if you and your wife are happy. If you are, then you're either done or you can buy a new sub for the bedroom.

If you're not satisfied with the E15HP paired with the Phil3, buy a second one! Rythmik lists the E15HP as +4db over the F12 so even going to two F12s likely won't help. As you said, I would try crossing the sub at 50Hz, possibly even lower (that's what I'm doing with my subs paired with BMRs for a mixed music / HT system).

You probably know this, but just in case: Integrating subs is fairly difficult. You need to find the right placement (sub crawl), find the best crossover, align the phase, and then set a gain that blends well while also giving you the "thump" you're looking for. Most AVRs will help with the integration, but relatively few stereo processors do. You also typically need one of the better room correction variants (e.g. Audyssey XT32) to handle a sub like the Rythmiks that go down to 14Hz.

I'm a big fan of multiple subs, which can sound much better across the whole listening space, but they're also much more difficult to integrate. Relatively few AVRs will independently integrate two subs. My approach has been to let the AVR handle the first one, and then I manually integrate the second one using a UMIK-1 and REW. Despite the hassle, I do think it's worth it. My BMRs sound wonderful, but my room is an acoustical mess, and the subs + BMR initially sounded awful together. It was exactly what audiophiles complains about: you could hear when the sub kicked in, it overpowered the mains, and the effect significantly detracted from the music. After calibration (which took a couple hours), the whole system sounds like an integrated whole and I'm very happy with the result for both music and HT.

One final thought since you already started down a path of blasphemy... You may have a case where running the mains full-range with the subs makes sense. That will make integration even harder, but you can think of it as a Geddes-style system since the Phil3 woofer is already so capable.
Hi obdav,

Thanks for the reply. I convinced my wife to help me move the E15HP into the LR. I have an Emotiva XSP-1 preamp which has a simple HP/LP filter capability with individual and summed outputs for the sub. I have it crossed at the minimum on both which I measured to be 50Hz using ARTA. I also have acourate and used it to help me get the amplitude and phase correctly set. Plus, it does some room correction.

Based on WAF, I am pretty limited on placement. This is an open LR, not dedicated listening space. The sub is currently about 5 ft left of the left speaker and about 1 ft from the front wall. Far away from side wall.
I am getting pretty flat response down to 15Hz (calibrated mic). There is definitely an improvement in the tactile response. Overall, I am quite pleased with the change. No negatives. I am on the fence as to whether or not to get a second E15. There is space under a table on the right...
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