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Speakers > Philharmonic Audio - Dennis Murphy
jsil 02:33 PM 03-09-2012
I don't have the much room. Looks I need to look at other speakers that I demo last week. Right now I've got NHT VT-1.2 speakers and I'm looking to upgrade.

Nuance's Avatar Nuance 02:46 PM 03-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsil View Post

I don't have the much room. Looks I need to look at other speakers that I demo last week. Right now I've got NHT VT-1.2 speakers and I'm looking to upgrade.

That applies to any speakers, FYI.
jsil 02:54 PM 03-09-2012
The problem is the depth and width of the Philharmonic 1.
klh007's Avatar klh007 03:30 PM 03-09-2012
Twylight, Are you using the 972 to drive the Phils? Processor & amps?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twylight View Post

you guys do know the phil 2's (in my room) are measuring +/- 2db down to about 29hz...I have one null and hump I deal with in the 70/90 range (damn floor jousts vibrate the room i think), but the phils dig deep.

This is not the BS measurements you get from retail speakers. There is very little music that will challenge a phil 2.

I might get some very small subs to try to work out my peak and suck out I get in my room...but thats my room, not the speakers.

My SVS PB 12/plus 2 is turned down to 16hz tune with only 10 percent gain to blend and crush movies.

I got the center in this week - its awesome.

I plan on watching some stuff tonight and will post a report this weekend.


Nethawk's Avatar Nethawk 03:53 PM 03-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Any chance you can pull them further from the side and back walls? The more room they have the better they'll perform.

Dennis recommended the same in this forum response.
anarkhia's Avatar anarkhia 04:22 PM 03-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsil View Post

The problem is the depth and width of the Philharmonic 1.

I had the same reserve for the depth, but i'm looking to upgrade my front since like 4 month.

I've read hundreds of threads, review and all. Even if my living room was small, Philharmonic was just the best speakers available for the money in the 2k range( and even more)

Just looking at what's inside for the price, who make them convinced me enough to order them without even listening to them once...

You should stick with your first idea...
Nuance's Avatar Nuance 04:38 PM 03-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by anarkhia View Post


I had the same reserve for the depth, but i'm looking to upgrade my front since like 4 month.

I've read hundreds of threads, review and all. Even if my living room was small, Philharmonic was just the best speakers available for the money in the 2k range( and even more)

Just looking at what's inside for the price, who make them convinced me enough to order them without even listening to them once...

You should stick with your first idea...

This.
exojam's Avatar exojam 05:42 PM 03-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twylight View Post

you guys do know the phil 2's (in my room) are measuring +/- 2db down to about 29hz...I have one null and hump I deal with in the 70/90 range (damn floor jousts vibrate the room i think), but the phils dig deep.

Twylight,

Are you using EQ to get that flat? Do you have any measurments you can post? Thanks.

James
Twylight's Avatar Twylight 05:44 PM 03-09-2012
I dont think the depth is a big deal. Dennis can weigh in here as well.

The mid chamber is getting good clearance even when the woofer cab is flush against the wall. The port is upward firing on the woofer cab. The mid cab can be adjusted with fill based on how it sounds in your room.

I dont get any significant difference against the wall, 3 feet out of the corners - I think putting ANY speaker in the corner flush on both walls is going to be a poor choice. Putting my sub in a corner is epic room gain.

I could have them maybe 2-3 feet from the back wall and up to 3.5 feet from the side walls...I didnt measure enough difference to bother...I cant stress enough that sounds stage is a perfectly meshed 14 foot wide wall at any placement or toe in for me.
anarkhia's Avatar anarkhia 06:48 PM 03-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twylight View Post

I dont think the depth is a big deal. Dennis can weigh in here as well.

The mid chamber is getting good clearance even when the woofer cab is flush against the wall. The port is upward firing on the woofer cab. The mid cab can be adjusted with fill based on how it sounds in your room.

I dont get any significant difference against the wall, 3 feet out of the corners - I think putting ANY speaker in the corner flush on both walls is going to be a poor choice. Putting my sub in a corner is epic room gain.

I could have them maybe 2-3 feet from the back wall and up to 3.5 feet from the side walls...I didnt measure enough difference to bother...I cant stress enough that sounds stage is a perfectly meshed 14 foot wide wall at any placement or toe in for me.

I WANT THEM NOW
Twylight's Avatar Twylight 06:56 PM 03-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by exojam View Post

Twylight,

Are you using EQ to get that flat? Do you have any measurments you can post? Thanks.

James


Heck no I cant get my room that flat without correction, but I did check one outside, took measurements at different heights.

Trinnov fixes my room with no issue

Currently im using a SN 972 w/ trinnov - its kinda awesome, just a little old school in its feature set. Ive tried manual, EQ, XT, the pioneer one, trinnov, the emotiva one (lol no), and the yamaha one. I would like to borrow an Audyssey Pro rig, but none of my audio friends are running one.

I love the phil 2s totally uncorrected from electronics. I have the back wall and 1st reflections treated with gik panels. I bought some bass traps on a whim, but they havent arrived. I havent tried speakers without some reflections treated in years and have no interest in it. A panel at first reflection is the best upgrade you can do in a room with walls..especially for how cheap it is.

Let me go watch a movie and take some pictures of the center...
Nethawk's Avatar Nethawk 07:07 PM 03-09-2012
How does one pinpoint the location of "first reflection"?
Twylight's Avatar Twylight 07:20 PM 03-09-2012
I like the mirror trick.

Take a cheap full length mirror and place it on the wall by your speaker. Go sit in the main seat. When you can see your speaker fully in the mirror...that the 1st reflection. There is also one on the floor and ceiling if you really want to get after it.
Nuance's Avatar Nuance 07:38 PM 03-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twylight View Post

I like the mirror trick.

Take a cheap full length mirror and place it on the wall by your speaker. Go sit in the main seat. When you can see your speaker fully in the mirror...that the 1st reflection. There is also one on the floor and ceiling if you really want to get after it.

^ What he said.
Nethawk's Avatar Nethawk 07:52 PM 03-09-2012
Thank you sir, this makes perfect sense. Perhaps a dumb(er) question - does this apply regardless of speaker distance from wall and toe-in?

My floor is carpeted, my ceiling is wood plank so I am less concerned, but the drywall along the left side of my listening area may throw some reflections (there are two windows that will be draped and a couch/sectional). At the top of this wall, also drywall, is boxed in heating duct approx. 14" square, which may be beneficial. To the right there is a bar area that extends the room's width another 8', so this shouldn't be as problematic.

I do have one minor concern. As with most basements I have two vertical steel supports that mark the dividing line between HT and the bar. Should I just cancel my order and consider BIC America speakers instead? Seriously, I have no idea what effect these may have on room acoustics. I've never noticed any displeasing characteristics, but then again the room hasn't quite approached the level of perfection the Philharmonics will bring.

Edit: pic during construction if interested.
Twylight's Avatar Twylight 08:26 PM 03-09-2012
that room will be AWESOME - dont over think the stuff - you will pass out at how good the phils sound

throw a rug on the floor in front of you, spend $100 on 1st reflections, enjoy the great sound. Do it as is, just dont spend $500 on cables before you do the rug and reflections =)
Dennis Murphy's Avatar Dennis Murphy 08:38 PM 03-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twylight View Post

Heck no I cant get my room that flat without correction, but I did check one outside, took measurements at different heights.

Trinnov fixes my room with no issue

Currently im using a SN 972 w/ trinnov - its kinda awesome, just a little old school in its feature set. Ive tried manual, EQ, XT, the pioneer one, trinnov, the emotiva one (lol no), and the yamaha one. I would like to borrow an Audyssey Pro rig, but none of my audio friends are running one.

I love the phil 2s totally uncorrected from electronics. I have the back wall and 1st reflections treated with gik panels. I bought some bass traps on a whim, but they havent arrived. I havent tried speakers without some reflections treated in years and have no interest in it. A panel at first reflection is the best upgrade you can do in a room with walls..especially for how cheap it is.

Let me go watch a movie and take some pictures of the center...

Now I'm getting a little cornfused. If you're using correction, wouldn't just about any 3-way with a decent woofer measure pretty flat? What did the outside, uncorrected measurements show?
Nethawk's Avatar Nethawk 08:48 PM 03-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twylight View Post

that room will be AWESOME - dont over think the stuff - you will pass out at how good the phils sound

throw a rug on the floor in front of you, spend $100 on 1st reflections, enjoy the great sound. Do it as is, just dont spend $500 on cables before you do the rug and reflections =)

Hah! I've had HT's since 1999, I can happily say I've kept the Monsters away. Carpet is down, the room almost finished in fact but I was too lazy to go down and take a new pic. Once everything is together I will post new photos.

Thank you. I've remodeled the basement and sold every piece of gear in my main HT, so I'm starting from scratch. I am probably over thinking things, but then that's what a quest for perfection will do.
anarkhia's Avatar anarkhia 08:49 PM 03-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twylight View Post

I like the mirror trick.

Take a cheap full length mirror and place it on the wall by your speaker. Go sit in the main seat. When you can see your speaker fully in the mirror...that the 1st reflection. There is also one on the floor and ceiling if you really want to get after it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=822273

A guy in another thread made a little C++ program to find exact location of the reflexion too
anarkhia's Avatar anarkhia 08:52 PM 03-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twylight View Post

that room will be AWESOME - dont over think the stuff - you will pass out at how good the phils sound

throw a rug on the floor in front of you, spend $100 on 1st reflections, enjoy the great sound. Do it as is, just dont spend $500 on cables before you do the rug and reflections =)

hmmmm, phils and a7s-650 not even home and i was already looking at the Emotiva Pre+amp lol... I think ill just wait them and correct first reflection, maybe it will be enough for me to be happy

What you mean by *do the rug*? does carpet is better or not in overall sound performance?
Twylight's Avatar Twylight 09:25 PM 03-09-2012
I think im derailing this thread with rambling - gonna stop now.

There are a ton of room and electronic correction threads in the following areas:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=91

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=19
Twylight's Avatar Twylight 09:45 PM 03-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

Now I'm getting a little cornfused. If you're using correction, wouldn't just about any 3-way with a decent woofer measure pretty flat? What did the outside, uncorrected measurements show?

Thats like saying the symphony hall doesnt matter, just play a violin anywhere and it will sound the same in your tile bathroom as it does from the first chair...u trolling me Dennis?

I dont use the room correction for music. I use aphile 1 or 2 for HT - one mode voices everything to match the mains, the other just corrects below 200hz.

I really love these speakers, thanks Dennis.
Nuance's Avatar Nuance 10:06 PM 03-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Thank you sir, this makes perfect sense. Perhaps a dumb(er) question - does this apply regardless of speaker distance from wall and toe-in?

My floor is carpeted, my ceiling is wood plank so I am less concerned, but the drywall along the left side of my listening area may throw some reflections (there are two windows that will be draped and a couch/sectional). At the top of this wall, also drywall, is boxed in heating duct approx. 14" square, which may be beneficial. To the right there is a bar area that extends the room's width another 8', so this shouldn't be as problematic.

I do have one minor concern. As with most basements I have two vertical steel supports that mark the dividing line between HT and the bar. Should I just cancel my order and consider BIC America speakers instead? Seriously, I have no idea what effect these may have on room acoustics. I've never noticed any displeasing characteristics, but then again the room hasn't quite approached the level of perfection the Philharmonics will bring.

Edit: pic during construction if interested.

That room will be just fine. Put some money into room treatments and bass traps and you'll be grinning from here to kingdom come when you hear music through the Philly's.
Twylight's Avatar Twylight 10:54 PM 03-09-2012
as promised



with beer for comparison



with beer for comparison



sry for lighting, its the middle of the night
Monkish54's Avatar Monkish54 11:14 PM 03-09-2012
^^ That "Happy face" center is my favorite speaker of all time!! Looking at it makes me smile. LMAO!
jsil 12:32 AM 03-10-2012
Thanks for the pictures and sweet looking they are. But what are all those marks on the woofers on the center speaker.
Dennis Murphy's Avatar Dennis Murphy 07:49 AM 03-10-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsil View Post

Thanks for the pictures and sweet looking they are. But what are all those marks on the woofers on the center speaker.

The center uses the reed cone Seas ER15 woofer--the same as used in the Salk Song Tower. I think reed refers to bamboo. The flecks are hard fibrous material embedded in the cone. It adds stiffness.
Dennis Murphy's Avatar Dennis Murphy 07:54 AM 03-10-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twylight View Post

Thats like saying the symphony hall doesnt matter, just play a violin anywhere and it will sound the same in your tile bathroom as it does from the first chair...u trolling me Dennis?

I dont use the room correction for music. I use aphile 1 or 2 for HT - one mode voices everything to match the mains, the other just corrects below 200hz.

I really love these speakers, thanks Dennis.

I was just referring to the bass region--the area where you say it's pretty flat down to 30 Hz or so. And I wasn't sure how much of that performace was due to the speaker itself, and how much to the correction system. I was more interested in how it measured without correction outside. Anyhow, I'm glad you like them. I'm packing up another pair that will be headed Texas-way. Thanks goodness for oil money.
exojam's Avatar exojam 08:05 AM 03-10-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twylight View Post

Heck no I cant get my room that flat without correction, but I did check one outside, took measurements at different heights.

Trinnov fixes my room with no issue

Currently im using a SN 972 w/ trinnov - its kinda awesome, just a little old school in its feature set. Ive tried manual, EQ, XT, the pioneer one, trinnov, the emotiva one (lol no), and the yamaha one. I would like to borrow an Audyssey Pro rig, but none of my audio friends are running one.

I love the phil 2s totally uncorrected from electronics. I have the back wall and 1st reflections treated with gik panels. I bought some bass traps on a whim, but they havent arrived. I havent tried speakers without some reflections treated in years and have no interest in it. A panel at first reflection is the best upgrade you can do in a room with walls..especially for how cheap it is.

Let me go watch a movie and take some pictures of the center...

Twylight,

I am still not fllowing you all the way on this one. I understand you do not use room correction - eq in two channel (which I do not either in my system). The part I do not follow is that you are using room correction, eq, treaments etc for the HT side and are able +/-2db from 29hz - Xhz in room. Just wondering if you have those measurements you can post. Thanks again.

James
Eternal Velocity's Avatar Eternal Velocity 09:24 AM 03-10-2012
Quote:


him, but they havent arrived. I havent tried speakers without some reflections treated in years and have no interest in it.

That's rather unfortunate, ESPECIALLY given these speakers ability to illuminate the width of the groom.

Quote:


A panel at first reflection is the best upgrade you can do in a room with walls..especially for how cheap it is.

That's your subjective opinion, I respectfully disagree. I consider it a downgrade.

Quote:


The part I do not follow is that you are using room correction, eq, treaments etc for the HT side and are able +/-2db from 29hz - Xhz in room

2nded

IMO it takes some serious room building from scratch to get THAT kind of tolerence in-room.
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