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post #1891 of 4743 Old 04-30-2012, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by fuzz092888 View Post

Oh hey there good lookin'

The ones on the right are mine (with the center channel cabinet), I'm the J dude. Yes, they are good looking! I emailed Del (I received the same pics), not sure he has stained them yet.

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post #1892 of 4743 Old 04-30-2012, 07:44 PM
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Nope, pre-stain.
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post #1893 of 4743 Old 04-30-2012, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by fuzz092888 View Post

Nope, pre-stain.

Thanks, I was just going to edit my post, I caught yours just after I posted.

Yippee, we're getting close!

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post #1894 of 4743 Old 04-30-2012, 07:46 PM
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Thanks, I was just going to edit my post, I caught yours just after I posted.

Yippee, we're getting close!

Congrats, my friend!! They look good already!! =D

You have a PM, btw. No rush, just wanted to let you know. =D

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post #1895 of 4743 Old 04-30-2012, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by fuzz092888 View Post

Oh hey there good lookin'

I'm posting another pic, as I'm sure Dennis will be working from right to left

Neener neener!
LL

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post #1896 of 4743 Old 04-30-2012, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mechx View Post

Sweet, thanks so much EV!

I have to be honest here. The Phil's were not designed for compressed rock music. It pretty much defeats the whole purpose of the design, which is to bring a realistic sound field to well-recorded source material with some natural ambiance. I had someone audition the Phil's yesterday--he brought some wonderful classical and jazz CD's, and some rock of Mpeg quality. The former sounded great, the latter flat as a pancake. You can probably get similar sound from smaller, less expensive speakers. I own the same model Marsh amp that you're running. It is not happy into low-sensitivity 4-ohm loads. It should do fine with the 2's, but I'm afraid the circuit breakers would trip with the 3 at very high volumes. But all-in-all, I prefer not to promote the Phil's as great rock speakers. The engineering and component quality that went into them is kind of wasted on compressed music. As I said, the 2's will certainly work, but I'n not sure you have to pay $2000 to get satisfactory results.
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post #1897 of 4743 Old 04-30-2012, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post


I have to be honest here. The Phil's were not designed for compressed rock music. It pretty much defeats the whole purpose of the design, which is to bring a realistic sound field to well-recorded source material with some natural ambiance. I had someone audition the Phil's yesterday--he brought some wonderful classical and jazz CD's, and some rock of Mpeg quality. The former sounded great, the latter flat as a pancake. You can probably get similar sound from smaller, less expensive speakers. I own the same model Marsh amp that you're running. It is not happy into low-sensitivity 4-ohm loads. It should do fine with the 2's, but I'm afraid the circuit breakers would trip with the 3 at very high volumes. But all-in-all, I prefer not to promote the Phil's as great rock speakers. The engineering and component quality that went into them is kind of wasted on compressed music. As I said, the 2's will certainly work, but I'n not sure you have to pay $2000 to get satisfactory results.

What about the rock which is in a hi def format !? I think the pink Floyd SACD sounded really good...I completely agree that on compressed formats the Phils were flat and showed the flaws of the recordings . But that to me sounded mainly the function of poor song quality
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post #1898 of 4743 Old 04-30-2012, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

I have to be honest here. The Phil's were not designed for compressed rock music. It pretty much defeats the whole purpose of the design, which is to bring a realistic sound field to well-recorded source material with some natural ambiance. I had someone audition the Phil's yesterday--he brought some wonderful classical and jazz CD's, and some rock of Mpeg quality. The former sounded great, the latter flat as a pancake. You can probably get similar sound from smaller, less expensive speakers. I own the same model Marsh amp that you're running. It is not happy into low-sensitivity 4-ohm loads. It should do fine with the 2's, but I'm afraid the circuit breakers would trip with the 3 at very high volumes. But all-in-all, I prefer not to promote the Phil's as great rock speakers. The engineering and component quality that went into them is kind of wasted on compressed music. As I said, the 2's will certainly work, but I'n not sure you have to pay $2000 to get satisfactory results.

Very good Dennis, thank you for that, appreciate it.
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post #1899 of 4743 Old 04-30-2012, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

I'm posting another pic, as I'm sure Dennis will be working from right to left

Neener neener!

Why you..........

Haha, doesn't matter to me, maybe I'll get lucky and the shipping labels will get swapped because they look so similar or that extra smaller box will get mixed in with the wrong bunch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

I have to be honest here. The Phil's were not designed for compressed rock music. It pretty much defeats the whole purpose of the design, which is to bring a realistic sound field to well-recorded source material with some natural ambiance. I had someone audition the Phil's yesterday--he brought some wonderful classical and jazz CD's, and some rock of Mpeg quality. The former sounded great, the latter flat as a pancake. You can probably get similar sound from smaller, less expensive speakers. I own the same model Marsh amp that you're running. It is not happy into low-sensitivity 4-ohm loads. It should do fine with the 2's, but I'm afraid the circuit breakers would trip with the 3 at very high volumes. But all-in-all, I prefer not to promote the Phil's as great rock speakers. The engineering and component quality that went into them is kind of wasted on compressed music. As I said, the 2's will certainly work, but I'n not sure you have to pay $2000 to get satisfactory results.

So with the solid backing what will that do for the heavily compressed stuff?
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post #1900 of 4743 Old 04-30-2012, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by fuzz092888 View Post

So with the solid backing what will that do for the heavily compressed stuff?

I think Dennis' implication was that the resolution and dynamic range of the relatively pricy Phils is wasted on compressed source content that lacks resolution and dynamic range - not that the open back was counterproductive.
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post #1901 of 4743 Old 04-30-2012, 08:09 PM
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Well I'm looking forward to Pink Floyd, Dire Straits, Grateful Dead, some Metallica and some Led Zeppelin along with my usual dose of classical and bluegrass. I am sure the Phils will sound great with all of the above.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #1902 of 4743 Old 04-30-2012, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mechx View Post

Been following this thread for awhile now and am really interested in the Phil 3's since I'm mostly 2 channel music listening.

Since I'm mostly classic rock, progressive rock, seems the Phil's may not be for me. I haven't really read any reviews for awhile of anyone using the Phil's for rock music. Anyone?

I would love to hear some impressions from someone with similar listening taste. I wouldn't be listening at extreme levels anyway, but occasionally I would have to admit, I do crank it above 100 db for a few seconds. Should I even be considering the Phil's?

I have Phil 3s and listen to classic rock along with my classical fare. I have enjoyed AC/DC, Van Halen, Aerosmith, Eagles, Boston, Journey, Led Zeppelin, Dire Straits, Clash etc along with various 80's fare including Depeche Mode, U2, REM (not sure if those fit as progressive but then were at the time Agree with another poster that over compressed MP3 will sound less than stellar and would be just as good on my 15 yr old Honda Accord speakers ha ha. You can only polish Cinderella and Poison so much
Greg
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post #1903 of 4743 Old 04-30-2012, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Eternal Velocity View Post

I think Dennis' implication was that the resolution and dynamic range of the relatively pricy Phils is wasted on compressed source content that lacks resolution and dynamic range - not that the open back was counterproductive.

I didn't mean to imply the open back was counterproductive, I just ordered some solid backs to go with my Phils, so now that I have some info about how the compressed stuff sounds with the open back, I was wondering if there would be any difference when I slapped on that closed back.
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[quote="energyfun"]

I have Phil 3s and listen to classic rock along with my classical fare. I have enjoyed AC/DC, Van Halen, Aerosmith, Eagles, Boston, Journey, Led Zeppelin, Dire Straits, Clash etc along with various 80's fare including Depeche Mode, U2, REM (not sure if those fit as progressive but then were at the time Agree with another poster that over compressed MP3 will sound less than stellar and would be just as good on my 15 yr old Honda Accord speakers ha ha. You can only polish Cinderella and Poison so much
Greg
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post #1905 of 4743 Old 04-30-2012, 08:31 PM
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[quote=azb120;21969568]
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Originally Posted by energyfun View Post


I have Phil 3s and listen to classic rock along with my classical fare. I have enjoyed AC/DC, Van Halen, Aerosmith, Eagles, Boston, Journey, Led Zeppelin, Dire Straits, Clash etc along with various 80's fare including Depeche Mode, U2, REM (not sure if those fit as progressive but then were at the time Agree with another poster that over compressed MP3 will sound less than stellar and would be just as good on my 15 yr old Honda Accord speakers ha ha. You can only polish Cinderella and Poison so much
Greg

I did not have any problems, even at levels that I don't really like listening too--other than a short burst of Hells Bells or something like that. The 3s are not as sensitive as 2s but seem to handle everything I have sent to them thus far.
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post #1906 of 4743 Old 04-30-2012, 09:06 PM
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*Sorry if anyone finds this offensive*

I think i'm going to look very similar to this guy when the first track plays on my Phil 2's!!

Attachment 245168
LL

HAVE:

Receiver: Marantz SR6004
Speakers: Philharmonic 2; TagMclaren Calliope; Pioneer BS-22
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post #1907 of 4743 Old 05-01-2012, 04:00 AM
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[quote=energyfun;21969579]
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Originally Posted by azb120 View Post


I did not have any problems, even at levels that I don't really like listening too--other than a short burst of Hells Bells or something like that. The 3s are not as sensitive as 2s but seem to handle everything I have sent to them thus far.



What are you driving your phil 3's with? avr? amp?
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post #1908 of 4743 Old 05-01-2012, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by mechx View Post

Been following this thread for awhile now and am really interested in the Phil 3's since I'm mostly 2 channel music listening.

Since I'm mostly classic rock, progressive rock, seems the Phil's may not be for me. I haven't really read any reviews for awhile of anyone using the Phil's for rock music. Anyone?

I would love to hear some impressions from someone with similar listening taste. I wouldn't be listening at extreme levels anyway, but occasionally I would have to admit, I do crank it above 100 db for a few seconds. Should I even be considering the Phil's?

I listen to all kinds of music like The Cars, Eagles, Dire Straight, Beatles, Boston, etc.

Denon AVR-3310CI + ATI AT2004.

What bands/singers do you listen to most often?
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post #1909 of 4743 Old 05-01-2012, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Eternal Velocity View Post

I think Dennis' implication was that the resolution and dynamic range of the relatively pricy Phils is wasted on compressed source content that lacks resolution and dynamic range - not that the open back was counterproductive.

Exactly. With that said, though, the Phil's, Salk's and other various great speakers are not wasted on all rock music. Some rock music is actually very well recorded, such as Pink Floyd, Joe Satriani (certain albums), Daryl Stuermer, etc. Not all rock music is compressed and lacking in dynamic range, though a lot of it is. However, it has nothing to do with the genre of music, but rather the recordings. Crap in is crap out, and that applies to ALL genres, not just rock and roll/metal. It's up to the listener to determine which recordings are good and which are not; again, this is applicable to all genres. If a speaker is well designed it will excel with all genres of music that are well recorded. Period.

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Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

Well I'm looking forward to Pink Floyd, Dire Straits, Grateful Dead, some Metallica and some Led Zeppelin along with my usual dose of classical and bluegrass. I am sure the Phils will sound great with all of the above.

I am sure they will too.

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post #1910 of 4743 Old 05-01-2012, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Exactly. With that said, though, the Phil's, Salk's and other various great speakers are not wasted on all rock music. Some rock music is actually very well recorded, such as Pink Floyd, Joe Satriani (certain albums), Daryl Stuermer, etc. Not all rock music is compressed and lacking in dynamic range, though a lot of it is. However, it has nothing to do with the genre of music, but rather the recordings. Crap in is crap out, and that applies to ALL genres, not just rock and roll/metal. It's up to the listener to determine which recordings are good and which are not; again, this is applicable to all genres. If a speaker is well designed it will excel with all genres of music that are well recorded. Period.

Agreed completely Brandon. As a rock listener, I'm sort of reading this going, "Where did the guy say 'I listen to compressed rock music recordings that are crap so how do the Phils sound with that style of music?'"

The guy said he listens to rock music and wanted to know how the Philharmonic speakers perform. He never said he listens to inferior music, so let's not automatically assume that. I listen to metal, rock of all kinds, and I would describe much of what I listen to as high quality recordings. There are of course exceptions to this as with all genres of music (less so in others I get it). To automatically assume that we as rock music fans don't need to spend as much to appreciate good sound is a bit distasteful in my opinion. Bad recordings will sound worse on good speakers, but that's just revealing what's truly there. Why not just say that instead of generalizing all rock music to be poorly recorded? It would certainly sound better to me and everyone else who listens to and likes rock. I think we can all agree, that those of us who use these forums are searching for very high quality reproduction of whatever it is we listen to.

Cheers,
Chad
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post #1911 of 4743 Old 05-01-2012, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Exactly. With that said, though, the Phil's, Salk's and other various great speakers are not wasted on all rock music. Some rock music is actually very well recorded, such as Pink Floyd, Joe Satriani (certain albums), Daryl Stuermer, etc. Not all rock music is compressed and lacking in dynamic range, though a lot of it is. However, it has nothing to do with the genre of music, but rather the recordings. Crap in is crap out, and that applies to ALL genres, not just rock and roll/metal. It's up to the listener to determine which recordings are good and which are not; again, this is applicable to all genres. If a speaker is well designed it will excel with all genres of music that are well recorded. Period....

+1

BTW, if anyone had any doubts at all about Dennis' integrity/honesty (I've seen at least one post to this effect), his post concerning this topic should put those doubts to rest.

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post #1912 of 4743 Old 05-01-2012, 07:06 AM
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[quote=mechx;21970077]
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Originally Posted by energyfun View Post




What are you driving your phil 3's with? avr? amp?

Classe SSP 800 pre-processor with McIntosh MC252 250wpc solid state amp. Have alos used Bel Canto S300 Class D amp with them same good results.
Greg
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post #1913 of 4743 Old 05-01-2012, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by thirdeye11 View Post

Agreed completely Brandon. As a rock listener, I'm sort of reading this going, "Where did the guy say 'I listen to compressed rock music recordings that are crap so how do the Phils sound with that style of music?'"

The guy said he listens to rock music and wanted to know how the Philharmonic speakers perform. He never said he listens to inferior music, so let's not automatically assume that. I listen to metal, rock of all kinds, and I would describe much of what I listen to as high quality recordings. There are of course exceptions to this as with all genres of music (less so in others I get it). To automatically assume that we as rock music fans don't need to spend as much to appreciate good sound is a bit distasteful in my opinion. Bad recordings will sound worse on good speakers, but that's just revealing what's truly there. Why not just say that instead of generalizing all rock music to be poorly recorded? It would certainly sound better to me and everyone else who listens to and likes rock. I think we can all agree, that those of us who use these forums are searching for very high quality reproduction of whatever it is we listen to.

Cheers,
Chad

That did probably come across as an overgeneralization. The dude who was here on Sunday also brought the Pink Floyd SACD, and it sounded pretty good. So
I'll rephrase. If you listen primarily to rock, and your recordings are heavily processed and/or compressed, I'm not sure the Phil's are the best buy out there.
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Originally Posted by thirdeye11 View Post

Agreed completely Brandon. As a rock listener, I'm sort of reading this going, "Where did the guy say 'I listen to compressed rock music recordings that are crap so how do the Phils sound with that style of music?'"

The guy said he listens to rock music and wanted to know how the Philharmonic speakers perform. He never said he listens to inferior music, so let's not automatically assume that. I listen to metal, rock of all kinds, and I would describe much of what I listen to as high quality recordings. There are of course exceptions to this as with all genres of music (less so in others I get it). To automatically assume that we as rock music fans don't need to spend as much to appreciate good sound is a bit distasteful in my opinion. Bad recordings will sound worse on good speakers, but that's just revealing what's truly there. Why not just say that instead of generalizing all rock music to be poorly recorded? It would certainly sound better to me and everyone else who listens to and likes rock. I think we can all agree, that those of us who use these forums are searching for very high quality reproduction of whatever it is we listen to.

Cheers,
Chad

Nuance and Chad you guys are right on......"high quality reproduction of what we listen to". That is a problem with any good speaker as you guys said what goes in comes out. I have listened to some rock music and I can say, not bad, but when the hard stuff comes into play, don't care for it, but maybe it was that it was to loud as the volume was turned up, dunno, don't remember. I have found the phils (monitors as well), to hold true, when quality recordings are applied-both of them.

I am currently experimenting with Pandora, MOG, Slacker radio, regular cds, and SACD DSDs. I find it interesting when some slacker radio music sounds better than the SACDs, and Grooveshark too. So, as in this case think this would hold true to the recordings, but you guys will have to correct me here if I am wrong. I have currently 3 SACDs more to come, that I am experimenting with the monitors and Phils. Both speakers are so similar, it's just amazing, why I am surprised at that.

Another thought is what is driving them, all of these factors seem to come into play in the phils performance....as Dennis said a good 100wpc minimum.

Maybe you guys can comment or Dennis..... I have yet to find a recording to play that when viola section is blasting away, as in crescendo a increase in force or intensity, without a hearing a sense of distortion. This bugs the "you know what" out of me. Maybe it is suppose to sound that way. It's like fingernails on a blackboard.

I feel a speaker that can do this is the bomb! I feel sure it is the recording or amps. I know I won't be happy til I figure it out, if it means buying another amp or two. I am positive it is not the speaker with the RAAL, More recordings may tell the tale.

Maybe I can try a tube, love those with the monitors, I am just a uneducated tubeaholic! Don't let Dennis read this!
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post #1915 of 4743 Old 05-01-2012, 07:41 AM
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Guys,

Just to be clear. I am 50% music and 50% movies and really get into my 2 channel listening with pure direct audio and flac, and love it.

I hate over compressed rock/bad recordings, my listening habits are very broad with a wide range of artists: Here are just a few off the the top of my head:

Dire Straights, 3 doors down, Dream Theater, Kid Rock, Molly Hatchet, Disturbed, Elvis, Jennifer Warnes, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Stevie Ray, The Cars, ZZ Top, Steve Winwood, Yes, Asia, Rush, Kelly Sweet, Steely Dan, Alan Parsons, Barry White, Lee Ann Womack, Bee Gees, Phil Collins, Fleetwood Mac, Metallica, Queen, Elton John, Kansas, Peter Gabriel, Three Dog Night, James Taylor, Sick Puppies, Chile Peppers, Five Finger Death Punch, Seether, and did I say " Lady Gaga" Darn it, I wish I didn't say that!
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post #1916 of 4743 Old 05-01-2012, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by mechx View Post

Thanks so much d_m, good to know. What are you driving your Phil's with? I have a marsh a400s amp that's 330 watts at 4 ohms. I'm hoping that amp would pair up ok with the Phil 3's...

A Bryston 4BSST2 500 watts into 4 ohms.
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post #1917 of 4743 Old 05-01-2012, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdeye11 View Post

The guy said he listens to rock music and wanted to know how the Philharmonic speakers perform. He never said he listens to inferior music, so let's not automatically assume that. I listen to metal, rock of all kinds, and I would describe much of what I listen to as high quality recordings. There are of course exceptions to this as with all genres of music (less so in others I get it). To automatically assume that we as rock music fans don't need to spend as much to appreciate good sound is a bit distasteful in my opinion. Bad recordings will sound worse on good speakers, but that's just revealing what's truly there. Why not just say that instead of generalizing all rock music to be poorly recorded? It would certainly sound better to me and everyone else who listens to and likes rock. I think we can all agree, that those of us who use these forums are searching for very high quality reproduction of whatever it is we listen to.

Cheers,
Chad

+1. I listen to all genres including rock in hi-res (like 96/24 NIN) and Flac and it seems to me to be recording specific and not genre specific.
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post #1918 of 4743 Old 05-01-2012, 08:56 AM
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There are two kinds of compressed music - dynamic compression and lossy compression with low bitrate files, both of which sound like crap no matter what you listen through. I'm not sure which is being referred to here, but since I don't listen to pop or metal (two big candidates for dynamic range compression) and all of my lossy digital copies are 240kb/s+ I'm going to happily listen to my music, end of story

I am also a fan of discovering music via streaming services and have switched to MOG and Spotify, both of which offer 320kb/s streams. I'll be happy with this too, I suspect.

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post #1919 of 4743 Old 05-01-2012, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

That did probably come across as an overgeneralization. The dude who was here on Sunday also brought the Pink Floyd SACD, and it sounded pretty good. So
I'll rephrase. If you listen primarily to rock, and your recordings are heavily processed and/or compressed, I'm not sure the Phil's are the best buy out there.

We're not insulted by what you said Dennis; don't get the wrong idea. I just want to be sure that those who listen to rock music know that, if recorded well, it will sound awesome through your Philharmonic speakers.

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Originally Posted by mechx View Post

Guys,

Just to be clear. I am 50% music and 50% movies and really get into my 2 channel listening with pure direct audio and flac, and love it.

I hate over compressed rock/bad recordings, my listening habits are very broad with a wide range of artists: Here are just a few off the the top of my head:

Dire Straights, 3 doors down, Dream Theater (the best band ever), Kid Rock, Molly Hatchet, Disturbed, Elvis, Jennifer Warnes, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Stevie Ray, The Cars, ZZ Top, Steve Winwood, Yes, Asia, Rush, Kelly Sweet, Steely Dan, Alan Parsons, Barry White, Lee Ann Womack, Bee Gees, Phil Collins, Fleetwood Mac, Metallica, Queen, Elton John, Kansas, Peter Gabriel, Three Dog Night, James Taylor, Sick Puppies, Chile Peppers, Five Finger Death Punch, Seether, and did I say " Lady Gaga" Darn it, I wish I didn't say that!

I fixed your statement above (in bold).

Fellas, you'll notice that in the brand new review of the Salk's SoundScape 10's, the reviewer used Joe Satriani's "I Just Wanna Rock" as one of his reference tracks. Just sayin'!

http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?hArticle=1031

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post #1920 of 4743 Old 05-01-2012, 10:05 AM
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Quote:


Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post
That did probably come across as an overgeneralization. The dude who was here on Sunday also brought the Pink Floyd SACD, and it sounded pretty good. So
I'll rephrase. If you listen primarily to rock, and your recordings are heavily processed and/or compressed, I'm not sure the Phil's are the best buy out there.

Rather than try to refute Dennis's post, we should understand that yes, these speakers might not be well suited for certain listening modes. We should understand the buyer's goals and recommend from there. Rather than the other way around...
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