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post #541 of 1145 Old 11-14-2011, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post


I have quite a bit of absorption with full front wall, most of the back wall, ceiling and side walls (plus a bit of diffusion) and can still overpower the room with sound. There aren't many who can take reference level with a smile but then, most of my friends are oldish and probably less tolerant of loud .

Outside of perhaps an anechoic chamber, any space can be overloaded. I'm surprised your's is so absorptive but it's impressive that you were able to accomplish this without hiring an acoustician.

So outside of aesthetics, your preference is for the speakers you built or had built (haven't heard of BFM's), correct?

Yes, I like DR-200/T-39 combo the best of all so far. JTR's are very close though with much less hassle to sound good and much smaller.

Remember my room is wall to wall sound absorbing board with
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post #542 of 1145 Old 11-14-2011, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post


Yes, I like DR-200/T-39 combo the best of all so far. JTR's are very close though with much less hassle to sound good and much smaller.

Remember my room is wall to wall sound absorbing board with

Treatments on top of that. I have been in professional rooms and my room absorbs much more as I went crazy with the stuff. I am actually adding more soon. You have to talk louder in my room than normal.
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post #543 of 1145 Old 11-14-2011, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Treatments on top of that. I have been in professional rooms and my room absorbs much more as I went crazy with the stuff. I am actually adding more soon. You have to talk louder in my room than normal.


That's interesting. I kind of like some reflection (especially for music) as it gives a more realistic concert/club live type sound. This is all so subjective with so many variables that comparisons are difficult. Anyway, nice job on the room and thanks for doing the test. Always good to try as many options as possible to get the sound that suits you.


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post #544 of 1145 Old 11-14-2011, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post


That's interesting. I kind of like some reflection (especially for music) as it gives a more realistic concert/club live type sound. This is all so subjective with so many variables that comparisons are difficult. Anyway, nice job on the room and thanks for doing the test. Always good to try as many options as possible to get the sound that suits you.

I do like to experience different gear and see what all the hype is about. I might have some other subs coming too.
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post #545 of 1145 Old 11-14-2011, 06:02 PM
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Cool stuff MK! Thanks for the feedback!

Were you using the standard JTR T8s or the new sealed versions?
Also, I noticed you stated that the newer JTRs were a bit better than the old versions you had. What would you rate the old JTRs in this line? 3rd?

Do you have any diffusors in your room or just absortion? If just absortion, is there a specific reason you never added diffusors?

Lastly, how's the knee?


Thx again,
Claude


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post #546 of 1145 Old 11-14-2011, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bunga99 View Post

Cool stuff MK! Thanks for the feedback!

Were you using the standard JTR T8s or the new sealed versions?
Also, I noticed you stated that the newer JTRs were a bit better than the old versions you had. What would you rate the old JTRs in this line? 3rd?

Do you have any diffusors in your room or just absortion? If just absortion, is there a specific reason you never added diffusors?

Lastly, how's the knee?

Thx again,
Claude

First, knees are getting better as I have over 120 degrees bending and that is with lots of swelling from squats, lunges, and yes, moving heavy subwoofers, I just could not wait anymore. The JTR speakers are sealed and sound fantastic. Before they were a lateral move from the M&K S-5000's and now they are better. I would rank them 4th and the new ones tied for 2nd depending on ones tastes(with the JBL's). Again just my opinion as one could easily say the JTR's are first and the BFM's second. Either way they are great. I still have the eD's coming and maybe Ben the new Sho-10's but I don't like returning speakers.
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post #547 of 1145 Old 11-14-2011, 07:46 PM
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Thanks again! Good luck with the knees. According to my friend that had the surgery and then a follow up surgery cuz he tried to do too much too early and screwed up his knee somewhat, 120 degrees is great progress!


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post #548 of 1145 Old 11-15-2011, 12:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bunga99 View Post

Thanks again! Good luck with the knees. According to my friend that had the surgery and then a follow up surgery cuz he tried to do too much too early and screwed up his knee somewhat, 120 degrees is great progress!

Thanks!
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post #549 of 1145 Old 11-15-2011, 05:00 AM
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This has probably been asked but I haven't seen it. Will a sealed speaker blend well with a ported sub? I've always heard that there are phase issues when trying to blend ported and sealed subs, so I wondered if the same is true for sealed speakers and ported subs.


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post #550 of 1145 Old 11-15-2011, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

This has probably been asked but I haven't seen it. Will a sealed speaker blend well with a ported sub? I've always heard that there are phase issues when trying to blend ported and sealed subs, so I wondered if the same is true for sealed speakers and ported subs.

The same is not true. Sealed speakers and ported subs will be fine. You can even blend sealed and ported subs, it's just more difficult to do.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #551 of 1145 Old 11-15-2011, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

First, knees are getting better as I have over 120 degrees bending and that is with lots of swelling from squats, lunges, and yes, moving heavy subwoofers, I just could not wait anymore. The JTR speakers are sealed and sound fantastic. Before they were a lateral move from the M&K S-5000's and now they are better. I would rank them 4th and the new ones tied for 2nd depending on ones tastes(with the JBL's). Again just my opinion as one could easily say the JTR's are first and the BFM's second. Either way they are great. I still have the eD's coming and maybe Ben the new Sho-10's but I don't like returning speakers.

Have the eD's shipped yet???

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post #552 of 1145 Old 11-15-2011, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Have the eD's shipped yet???

I just got home and the eD speakers are sitting on my front steps! Time for some unpacking.
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post #553 of 1145 Old 11-15-2011, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

The same is not true. Sealed speakers and ported subs will be fine. You can even blend sealed and ported subs, it's just more difficult to do.

Ok, so what about this.

I'm thinking about someday buying a couple of Epik Empire's placing them right next to my mains and crossing them over really high. I will also high pass them at around 40 or 50 hz and have my Captivator handle the bass below 40 or 50.

Will setting the HPF far higher than the tuning frequency of the Empires help with the phase issues (I have heard that it's at the tuning frequency where most phase issues/problems occur).

I'm very happy with my Cap for bass but much like MK I'm alway curious about other products and setups.

Sorry MK for the OT.


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post #554 of 1145 Old 11-15-2011, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by carp View Post


Ok, so what about this.

I'm thinking about someday buying a couple of Epik Empire's placing them right next to my mains and crossing them over really high. I will also high pass them at around 40 or 50 hz and have my Captivator handle the bass below 40 or 50.

Will setting the HPF far higher than the tuning frequency of the Empires help with the phase issues (I have heard that it's at the tuning frequency where most phase issues/problems occur).

I'm very happy with my Cap for bass but much like MK I'm alway curious about other products and setups.

Sorry MK for the OT.

I say scrap that idea an just get another cap and cross it higher. They are supposed to be able to go to 200hz. I have no problems integrating horn subs with sealed speakers, sealed speakers with vented or horn subs, or ported speakers with any type of sub. Just measure and adjust phase and it should blend nicely!
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post #555 of 1145 Old 11-15-2011, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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So I am trying to watch WOTW with my new subs and my bass is gone again like before. Last time I switched HDMI cables, but I was not sure if I got lucky and then it went out again. Changing wires did nothing. It cane back which I have no idea why and now it is gone again. Maybe the system update was bad from the PS3? New update is here so I will try that! Hope it works!
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post #556 of 1145 Old 11-15-2011, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I just got home and the eD speakers are sitting on my front steps! Time for some unpacking.

great! I'm looking forward to your impressions!

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post #557 of 1145 Old 11-15-2011, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I say scrap that idea an just get another cap and cross it higher. They are supposed to be able to go to 200hz. I have no problems integrating horn subs with sealed speakers, sealed speakers with vented or horn subs, or ported speakers with any type of sub. Just measure and adjust phase and it should blend nicely!

Ha, actually I plan on doing both eventually - getting another Cap and getting a couple of Empire's. I also plan on buying another full set of speakers to use for HT and keep my Maggies for music... unless I can find speakers for HT that do as well for music as the Maggies (JTR perhaps???)

Currently I'm crossing my Cap at 150 and can't localize it at all, but it's the whole lack of symmetry thing that's bugging me. Sometimes I even use 200 and it's hard to locate the bass even that high, must be my room and where I'm sitting and the sub location.

First things first, I need to get my wall painted for my new projector.


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post #558 of 1145 Old 11-15-2011, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, I have compressed bass for some reason and it happens on DDHD and DTSHD or even using optical. I will try calling Ada again as there were no answers. I wonder if the board is bad or something. There is bass but it is so low I don't know what to do.

Anyways, the eD cinema 12's are the biggest bookshelves ever! They are huge! They do look nice with rounded corners and such. I have them set as 3 surrounds for now and running my music mode which engages all the speakers and subs. This mode is my favorite for music by far. Anyways the eD speakers have a very similar tone as the BFM's but a little higher pitched but I have to breakin the 12 inch driver. The DE-250 sounds a little brighter than the BFM's but it too needs some breaking in. They match the BFM's pretty good as stuff pans around the room. The sensitivity is about the same but the BFM's are 14 feet away and the eD's are 7 feet away. Once they break in I will try them as fronts and see how it sounds. They are very good out of the box but I will wait for breaking in for more details and they are already palpable. For the guys who don't know what that means it is feeling of the sound and not just hearing, can you feel the voices and instruments. Also, my eD's were totally upgraded including the woofer so they will not sound the same as others. Mine cost much more than stock! If I return them I lose money because of that.
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post #559 of 1145 Old 11-15-2011, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

So I am trying to watch WOTW with my new subs and my bass is gone again like before.

I had that happen over the weekend after doing some recalibration (MCACC) and EQ (feedback destroyer - for subs) - turned out for some reason MCACC threw me back into stereo mode w/ auto surround, once I reset to Direct, I was good (bass management engaged). Maybe some prepro setting got flipped?

Another possibility, if it only happened after swapping in new LCRs, is that they don't fill in the crossover region as well as what they replaced, so they need to be re-EQed - or maybe you did that, just throwing some things out in case one rings a bell.


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post #560 of 1145 Old 11-15-2011, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

OK, I have compressed bass for some reason and it happens on DDHD and DTSHD or even using optical. I will try calling Ada again as there were no answers. I wonder if the board is bad or something. There is bass but it is so low I don't know what to do.

Anyways, the eD cinema 12's are the biggest bookshelves ever! They are huge! They do look nice with rounded corners and such. I have them set as 3 surrounds for now and running my music mode which engages all the speakers and subs. This mode is my favorite for music by far. Anyways the eD speakers have a very similar tone as the BFM's but a little higher pitched but I have to breakin the 12 inch driver. The DE-250 sounds a little brighter than the BFM's but it too needs some breaking in.

I think from what Brent (eD) said there wasn't alot of break-in with the horns, but there was with the woofer ..

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post #561 of 1145 Old 11-15-2011, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by redfive View Post

I think from what Brent (eD) said there wasn't alot of break-in with the horns, but there was with the woofer ..

200 hours break-in on the woofer is what I was told, but that was for there stock kappa woofer.
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post #562 of 1145 Old 11-15-2011, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redfive View Post

I think from what Brent (eD) said there wasn't alot of break-in with the horns, but there was with the woofer ..

Brett.


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post #563 of 1145 Old 11-15-2011, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
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I watched Harry potter with the eD's as surrounds and t was the best ever but I still don't know if the bass was working because I have not heard the movie with bass yet. The eD's sound great but still need breaking in obviously. The BFM will be hard to beat with it's huge dynamic sound.
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post #564 of 1145 Old 11-15-2011, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I watched Harry potter with the eD's as surrounds and t was the best ever but I still don't know if the bass was working because I have not heard the movie with bass yet. The eD's sound great but still need breaking in obviously. The BFM will be hard to beat with it's huge dynamic sound.

anxious to get my set for a review.


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post #565 of 1145 Old 11-15-2011, 05:39 PM
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James-
You were my insperation for seeking out the JBL Cinema speakers. I was bummed when you moved on. I just have a hard time believing that an 8" (or 3) mid woofer, or a single 12 plus CD could compare with multiple 15" woofers plus CD/JBL cinema wave guide. Maybe it's the smaller room size...dunno.

On another note:
With so many theaters folding in the past few years, finding these big JBL's at an absolute bargain has been easy. I realize not everyone has the space, but. I just don't know why people waste money on HiFi speakers for theater use.
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post #566 of 1145 Old 11-15-2011, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Ha, actually I plan on doing both eventually - getting another Cap and getting a couple of Empire's. I also plan on buying another full set of speakers to use for HT and keep my Maggies for music... unless I can find speakers for HT that do as well for music as the Maggies (JTR perhaps???)

Currently I'm crossing my Cap at 150 and can't localize it at all, but it's the whole lack of symmetry thing that's bugging me. Sometimes I even use 200 and it's hard to locate the bass even that high, must be my room and where I'm sitting and the sub location.

First things first, I need to get my wall painted for my new projector.

carp there is no way a couple of empires are going to do a darn thing for you with that Captivator in your room. If you want more midbass for that crazy metal music you listen to you need to work with your SMS EQ. That cap should be able to do everything you want. I do understand the symmetry thing - so I respect getting another one to finish the pair.


Paging Luke Kamp -- assistance at carp's house in the EQ section needed.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #567 of 1145 Old 11-15-2011, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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James-
You were my insperation for seeking out the JBL Cinema speakers. I was bummed when you moved on. I just have a hard time believing that an 8" (or 3) mid woofer, or a single 12 plus CD could compare with multiple 15" woofers plus CD/JBL cinema wave guide. Maybe it's the smaller room size...dunno.

On another note:
With so many theaters folding in the past few years, finding these big JBL's at an absolute bargain has been easy. I realize not everyone has the space, but. I just don't know why people waste money on HiFi speakers for theater use.

The JBL still have more Midbass and big sound the others but the BFM can create and why they are first. I have not tried the eD's up front but they are the best surrounds period!
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post #568 of 1145 Old 11-16-2011, 12:34 AM - Thread Starter
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BTW, here is your chance to get some awesome Midbass modules that sound great. I am selling all my T-39 cabinets for $300 each, what I paid. These with proper integration will add lots of Mid bass. I am building DR-200 line arrays. If someone decides to buy all 4 I will throw in a F-20 with Ashly amp for free!!
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post #569 of 1145 Old 11-16-2011, 04:56 AM
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Wait.....

What?

The midbass slam that was amazing from the T39s is no longer needed? Why don't you wait a bit on the T39 sale until you have a DR200 line setup before you get rid of them?

The DR200 does not extend incredibly low or with great sensitivity below 125-150Hz.....

DR250s can go lower than DR200s, and share many of the same dispersive characteristics.

Are we talking about floor-to-ceiling DR lines for MK now?

It is always fun to guess what you will do next.....selling the T39s was not what I thought you would do...

Care to explain more?


JSS
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post #570 of 1145 Old 11-16-2011, 05:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Wait.....

What?

The midbass slam that was amazing from the T39s is no longer needed? Why don't you wait a bit on the T39 sale until you have a DR200 line setup before you get rid of them?

The DR200 does not extend incredibly low or with great sensitivity below 125-150Hz.....

DR250s can go lower than DR200s, and share many of the same dispersive characteristics.

Are we talking about floor-to-ceiling DR lines for MK now?

It is always fun to guess what you will do next.....selling the T39s was not what I thought you would do...

Care to explain more?

JSS

Yes I want to try the line array setup and I do have an extra DR-200 so I will try it first. I could always crossover higher with my subs to make up the difference from 100-120 but I would not go higher.
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