Speaker Shootout!! - Page 2 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 06:01 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,457
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

What's your timeframe for getting this comparison completed? Will you have all the speakers at the same time?

I am hoping to keep a set of 3 for all of them. I have at least 3 weeks for the JTR's and eD's and more for the CHT's.
MKtheater is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 06:04 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,457
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Or just buy Omnimic . It's as simple as REW with the rat shack meter, but accurate.

Omnimic does not go below 10hz. I do have the lilmike mic that I want to try out.
MKtheater is offline  
post #33 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 06:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,613
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 167 Post(s)
Liked: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Omnimic does not go below 10hz. I do have the lilmike mic that I want to try out.

Yes, good point. For those of us that don't have to worry about measuring that low , it's a great kit.

CHT SHO-10 x 5 powered by Denon 4311 and Lab Gruppen 10000Q amp
JTR S2 x 2
CHT 18.1 x2
Oppo BDP103D bluray player/Sonos/PS3
Gooddoc is online now  
post #34 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 06:12 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
penngray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

but the JBL's midbass and big sound was better. I am hoping to combine both with the DR's.

I keep telling you there is no replacement for displacement in the lower bass regions. Even up to 400Hz I think its very important to have clean, unclipped high SPL potential for the cleanest peaks. Your JBLs had some high quality dual 15" woofers doing that

Subscribed

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
penngray is offline  
post #35 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 06:15 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
penngray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

MK - If this is true, and you want to do the measurement portion of this shootout properly, you really need a calibrated mic. You can get one for $85 from here: http://www.cross-spectrum.com/measur...behringer.html

Get the "basic plus" model. The "plus" model comes with calibration files for the mic pointed forward and tip-up. I find the tip-up mic orientation gives the most accurate HF measurements.

You'll also need a mic preamp. This M-Audio Mobile Pre is inexpensive and accurate: http://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-Mobile...3125252&sr=8-4

Even with a generic cal file for the Rat Shack SPL meter, there is so much variance between production runs of the meter, that you really don't know what the result is going to be.

Hope that helps, good luck and have fun in your testing!

lmao, we have posted that suggestion about 50 times.

MK, definitely knows what he requires.

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
penngray is offline  
post #36 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,457
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

lmao, we have posted that suggestion about 50 times.

MK, definitely knows what he requires.

I will buy both preamp and mic if that is good enough.
MKtheater is offline  
post #37 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 06:18 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
penngray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Or just buy Omnimic . It's as simple as REW with the rat shack meter, but accurate.

Its double the $$$. Plus, if MK actually bought the mic years ago like many keep telling him. He could have been an expert in using not only REW but great measurement tools like ARTA and HOLM.

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
penngray is offline  
post #38 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,457
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I keep telling you there is no replacement for displacement in the lower bass regions. Even up to 400Hz I think its very important to have clean, unclipped high SPL potential for the cleanest peaks. Your JBLs had some high quality dual 15" woofers doing that

Subscribed

The JBL's were the best in the midbass.
MKtheater is offline  
post #39 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 06:19 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
penngray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I will buy both preamp and mic if that is good enough.

Yes, its good enough for many who measure and build speakers. FWIW, I actually thought you did buy them already. I didnt know you still had the RS meter until this discussion.

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
penngray is offline  
post #40 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 06:20 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
penngray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

The JBL's were the best in the midbass.

I have your drivers still in a box so if you want them back......

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
penngray is offline  
post #41 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 06:21 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,457
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 428
I will buy today if you guys can tell me which I should. I don't have a problem with doing it, just getting the right one. I have been told so many times that the rat shack meter is good enough it always convinces me to keep using it.
MKtheater is offline  
post #42 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,457
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 428
If we can create a DR speaker with a jbl 2225 or 2226 you can call it a day.
MKtheater is offline  
post #43 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 06:27 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
penngray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I will buy today if you guys can tell me which I should. I don't have a problem with doing it, just getting the right one. I have been told so many times that the rat shack meter is good enough it always convinces me to keep using it.

The RS meter is fine for bass measurements since we have both seen the comparison threads in the DIY forum on this topic but if you want full range measurements then a better mic is required.


You can buy what hifisponge linked. Its the same setup I own so I believe its good.



Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

http://www.cross-spectrum.com/measur...behringer.html

Get the "basic plus" model. The "plus" model comes with calibration files for the mic pointed forward and tip-up. I find the tip-up mic orientation gives the most accurate HF measurements.

You'll also need a mic preamp. This M-Audio Mobile Pre is inexpensive and accurate: http://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-Mobile...3125252&sr=8-4


It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
penngray is offline  
post #44 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 06:28 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
penngray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

If we can create a DR speaker with a jbl 2225 or 2226 you can call it a day.

lmao, Im still trying to figure out the DR speaker. Other then knowing is a Bill Fitzmaurice creation, correct?

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
penngray is offline  
post #45 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,457
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 428
Lets all rejoice!!!!!!! I just bought the premium plus behringer mic and preamp, yeah!!! Now if it measures the same as the RS meter I am hunting you down Penn
MKtheater is offline  
post #46 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 06:44 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
penngray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
lmao, you will just sell me it at a reduced rate

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
penngray is offline  
post #47 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,457
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

lmao, Im still trying to figure out the DR speaker. Other then knowing is a Bill Fitzmaurice creation, correct?

Well, after listening to the DR for a brief time there is so much potential. The sound is very palpable with lots of energy. It is very large sounding and the sensitivity is very high in a sort of compact speaker. OK, out of the box it sounds worse than the M&K's and Triads but the JBL's sound bad too until I tweaked them.
MKtheater is offline  
post #48 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 06:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
thirdeye11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Dallas
Posts: 1,815
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Very much looking forward to the results of this shootout!
thirdeye11 is offline  
post #49 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 06:46 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
penngray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
It has been used at live events so Im guessing it should be okay for your room

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
penngray is offline  
post #50 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,457
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

It has been used at live events so Im guessing it should be okay for your room

Yeah, but I have used cinema speakers too!!
MKtheater is offline  
post #51 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 07:34 AM
Advanced Member
 
blackoper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 567
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

If we can create a DR speaker with a jbl 2225 or 2226 you can call it a day.

"Challenge accepted!"
That is not a bad idea. I'll screw around with it when I get free time
blackoper is online now  
post #52 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,457
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 428
Can you guys explain how to EQ properly? I mean which Q to use with a peak.
MKtheater is offline  
post #53 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 08:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,613
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 167 Post(s)
Liked: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Its double the $$$. Plus, if MK actually bought the mic years ago like many keep telling him. He could have been an expert in using not only REW but great measurement tools like ARTA and HOLM.

Agreed. And not as versatile as a preamp and condensor mic. However, it's butt easy to use and is up and running in 20 secs. I know REW is not any kind of torture to setup, but I am not speaker building and for simple FR sweeps, RT60, and such I find myself reaching for the Omnimic.

CHT SHO-10 x 5 powered by Denon 4311 and Lab Gruppen 10000Q amp
JTR S2 x 2
CHT 18.1 x2
Oppo BDP103D bluray player/Sonos/PS3
Gooddoc is online now  
post #54 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 08:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Brad Horstkotte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 5,119
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Can you guys explain how to EQ properly? I mean which Q to use with a peak.

If you use REW to do it, you can set an overall target, and it will work out the EQ parameters (frequency, bandwidth, gain) for you; and you can manually tweak and get a preview curve of what the expected effect will be. It has settings for various BFDs, but I don't see why those same recommendations that it spits out wouldn't be close for a non BFD parametric EQ.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
| Xbox Live: Atomic Hamper
Brad Horstkotte is offline  
post #55 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 09:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
chrapladm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,723
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

If we can create a DR speaker with a jbl 2225 or 2226 you can call it a day.

That would be a huge DR!!

The DR250 uses a 10" and DR280/300 a 12" so a 15" would be huge in one of Bills DR sized cabinets. I was only thinking the biggest I would go would be a 250 because dispersion gets more narrow the bigger you go as far as the DR's.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
chrapladm is online now  
post #56 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,457
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

If you use REW to do it, you can set an overall target, and it will work out the EQ parameters (frequency, bandwidth, gain) for you; and you can manually tweak and get a preview curve of what the expected effect will be. It has settings for various BFDs, but I don't see why those same recommendations that it spits out wouldn't be close for a non BFD parametric EQ.

So what tabs or options do I press to get the target curves? I can copy the settings on my Ada which has 12 bands per 7 channels and 8 bands on the LFE of parametric EQ. When the new speakers come in I want to know which speaker I like out of the 3 here first. I can see why I like the sound of the M&K's and why their vocals are more pronounced, The 900-2K range is much higher and flatter than the others. Once I get the other 2 to play like this it may change everything. Usually I do this stuff fast but with the new baby I have limited time.
MKtheater is offline  
post #57 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 09:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Brad Horstkotte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 5,119
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 57
I was assuming since you mentioned you calibrated them all to 75, that you ran Audyssey (or equivalent) on them and saved to a preset? Or did you just mean used the RS meter to set the levels to 75?

If you haven't, that would be my first thought, see how close Audyssey can get you for the mains, since its easy / one button approach. Or would Audyssey not have sufficient EQ horsepower to address the FR? I use MCACC, not Audyssey, MCACC only has set frequencies on EQ, not sure if Audyssey's are parametric - if not, guess that may not help.

(sorry, forgot what receiver / processor you're using, not sure if Audyssey applies)

Otherwise, for REW and the separate parametric EQs, then you'd take a measurement, push the EQ button at the top to bring up the EQ panel; drop down "Equalizer", set to "Generic"; drop down "Target Settings", select "Speaker Type = Full Range", adjust crossover settings as needed (how you're crossing them over to the sub); click "Set Target Level"; drop down "Filter Tasks", set the "Match Range" to whatever frequency you want to try to adjust (like 80-12,000 say), set individual boost to somewhere between 0 and 3 dB, overall max boost somewhere between 0 and 6 (YMMV), flatness target 3 dB, then click "Match Response To Target", which sets the filters. Then click the "EQ Filters" button at the top to see what filters it set up - and you can manually add filters and see the predicted effect if you aren't satisfied with what REQ came up with automagically. You can then manually enter those PEQ settings into your PEQ for that channel.

Repeat for each channel.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
| Xbox Live: Atomic Hamper
Brad Horstkotte is offline  
post #58 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 09:42 AM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 13,757
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 483 Post(s)
Liked: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Omnimic does not go below 10hz.

Neither do any of the RS meters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Lets all rejoice!!!!!!! I just bought the premium plus behringer mic and preamp, yeah!!! Now if it measures the same as the RS meter I am hunting you down Penn

Ah, good. About damn time!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- direct pod link


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- main website

Scott Simonian is offline  
post #59 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 09:49 AM
Advanced Member
 
alittletank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: San Antonio Tx
Posts: 565
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Subscribed

alittletank is offline  
post #60 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 09:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
psgcdn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Prov. of Quebec, Canada
Posts: 4,457
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

Otherwise, for REW and the separate parametric EQs, then you'd take a measurement, push the EQ button at the top to bring up the EQ panel; drop down "Equalizer", set to "Generic"; drop down "Target Settings", select "Speaker Type = Full Range", adjust crossover settings as needed (how you're crossing them over to the sub); click "Set Target Level"; drop down "Filter Tasks", set the "Match Range" to whatever frequency you want to try to adjust (like 80-12,000 say), set individual boost to somewhere between 0 and 3 dB, overall max boost somewhere between 0 and 6 (YMMV), flatness target 3 dB, then click "Match Response To Target", which sets the filters. Then click the "EQ Filters" button at the top to see what filters it set up - and you can manually add filters and see the predicted effect if you aren't satisfied with what REQ came up with automagically. You can then manually enter those PEQ settings into your PEQ for that channel.

Repeat for each channel.

Sweet! A recipe I can follow! Can't wait to try it. I had manually set PEQ filters to EQ my sub.

Remember, it's called "AV Science"!

My HT
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Peter

psgcdn is offline  
Reply Speakers

Tags
Jbl Professional , Jbl Harman Kardon , Jbl Professional 4645c Cinema Thx Subwoofer
Gear in this thread - 4645c by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off