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post #631 of 1145 Old 11-18-2011, 01:16 PM
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Just the kl650's
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post #632 of 1145 Old 11-18-2011, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Just the kl650's

Sweeps will come now I got them working.
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post #633 of 1145 Old 11-18-2011, 02:26 PM
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MK,

Could you refresh my memory,...what measurement capabilities to you have for levels, optimization,.. etc?

Thanks

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post #634 of 1145 Old 11-18-2011, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FOH View Post

MK,

Could you refresh my memory,...what measurement capabilities to you have for levels, optimization,.. etc?

Thanks

I am going to use omnimic for the first time. I also have a calibrated Behringer mic from spectrum labs.
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post #635 of 1145 Old 11-18-2011, 11:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Guess what I am up to, I am going over building 3 DR-280 loaded with the Kappalite ho3012 and either piezzo's, ribbons, or DE-250's. What do you guys think? This way the bass bin is not needed at all. If I go with the DE-250 then it would be an all horn loaded eD but with a different crossover. BTW my eD speakers would be like having 2 regular 12's for the guy that asked so it would be closer to the triple for Midbass. Horn loaded, it would probably have more Midbass. I love the JTR speakers too!
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post #636 of 1145 Old 11-19-2011, 04:56 AM
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DR 280 with DE250 and what horn for DE250?

JSS
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post #637 of 1145 Old 11-19-2011, 05:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

DR 280 with DE250 and what horn for DE250?

JSS

I don't know, maybe something like the DR-300?
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post #638 of 1145 Old 11-19-2011, 05:37 AM - Thread Starter
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So I am about to take some measurements and I bring in a tablet PC and about to load the omnimic CD and then discover the power cord to the computer is missing and the battery is dead! What luck I am having.
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post #639 of 1145 Old 11-19-2011, 05:44 AM
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Do you sit far enough back for the DR280?

I thought the angles on them were better for further seating than you had? I dont remember the numbers.
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post #640 of 1145 Old 11-19-2011, 06:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

Do you sit far enough back for the DR280?

I thought the angles on them were better for further seating than you had? I dont remember the numbers.

These are the things I am going over. Using the ribbons it won't matter.
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post #641 of 1145 Old 11-19-2011, 06:22 AM
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Mk,

I had Scott build me a DR280 to test with the line arrays and the kappalite and got it hooked up yesterday. Even with very little Eq and a crappy placement it kills my JBL 3677's in output and clarity. In fact, one DR280 sounds like it has the output capabilities of all 3 JBL's. The 3677's are very "spitty" to me at times and that is defintely not there with the DR280 with the material I tested.

The only thing I can fault this speaker for is its size (which I knew would be huge) and the cost for a new one is not cheap.

I will snap a pic so you can see just how big this thing is. I have it next to my 18" mbm's I built in a 5.8cft box and it is almost as big.
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post #642 of 1145 Old 11-19-2011, 06:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

Mk,

I had Scott build me a DR280 to test with the line arrays and the kappalite and got it hooked up yesterday. Even with very little Eq and a crappy placement it kills my JBL 3677's in output and clarity. In fact, one DR280 sounds like it has the output capabilities of all 3 JBL's. The 3677's are very "spitty" to me at times and that is defintely not there with the DR280 with the material I tested.

The only thing I can fault this speaker for is its size (which I knew would be huge) and the cost for a new one is not cheap.

I will snap a pic so you can see just how big this thing is. I have it next to my 18" mbm's I built in a 5.8cft box and it is almost as big.

I know it is 24 x 24 x 24 and Scott built mine and they are awesome. What tweeters are you using? I was thinking of a ribbon array which makes them 100 db sensitive or more so they would sound like ribbons and be dynamic at the same time. It could be the answer for maggie owners.
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post #643 of 1145 Old 11-19-2011, 08:20 AM
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MK,
what ribbons were you contemplating using in your DR280. Have you given AMT drivers a thought. They are generally beefier and higher sensitivity then ribbons.
Not sure if they will physically incorporate with your design though.
PE sells an AMT (something cantos) for a decent price. Beyma has an AMT driver and horn that is 102db sensitive but it is very pricey.
What high pass crossover range were you looking at in your design?
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post #644 of 1145 Old 11-19-2011, 09:11 AM
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post #645 of 1145 Old 11-19-2011, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Working on it.
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post #646 of 1145 Old 11-19-2011, 03:17 PM
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"What do you guys think?"

MK you are having so much fun, I don't know whether to be frightened
of you or envious!? But please ...do continue
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post #647 of 1145 Old 11-19-2011, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscillate View Post

"What do you guys think?"

MK you are having so much fun, I don't know whether to be frightened
of you or envious!? But please ...do continue

I am down to BFM and eD. I love the BFM design and the eD drivers so it had me thinking.
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post #648 of 1145 Old 11-19-2011, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Guess what I am up to, I am going over building 3 DR-280 loaded with the Kappalite ho3012 and either piezzo's, ribbons, or DE-250's. What do you guys think? This way the bass bin is not needed at all. If I go with the DE-250 then it would be an all horn loaded eD but with a different crossover. BTW my eD speakers would be like having 2 regular 12's for the guy that asked so it would be closer to the triple for Midbass. Horn loaded, it would probably have more Midbass. I love the JTR speakers too!

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...ibbon-tweeter/

This Fountek 5i ribbon looks like it might pair up nicely with the Eminence 3012HO. Sensitivity almost the same, good power handling. Recommended x-over at 1500Hz.

Jay

Heavily addicted SACDBA member, starting the twelve steps tomorrow!
Jay
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post #649 of 1145 Old 11-19-2011, 11:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pet Motel View Post


http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...ibbon-tweeter/

This Fountek 5i ribbon looks like it might pair up nicely with the Eminence 3012HO. Sensitivity almost the same, good power handling. Recommended x-over at 1500Hz.

Jay

Very nice, is there a way to horn load a ribbon or is that a bad idea? This ribbon is 100 db sensitive? How loud can it go? In a horn it could be much more dynamic but would it lose it's dispersion qualities? I wonder how the eminence kappa lite HO compares to the best 12's as in sound quality and Midbass? In these designs distortion and compression is at a minimum, well, for HT anyways!
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post #650 of 1145 Old 11-19-2011, 11:16 PM - Thread Starter
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One more thing, I got omnimic working and will post some graphs and pics tomorrow.
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post #651 of 1145 Old 11-20-2011, 04:21 AM
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My next build I was looking at using the Beyma TPL-150 ribbon. But they are pricey.
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post #652 of 1145 Old 11-20-2011, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pet Motel View Post

This Fountek 5i ribbon...Sensitivity almost the same

Not in a DR280. To have adequate sensitivity, and to have the requisite pattern control, would take four per cab.

Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design

The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
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post #653 of 1145 Old 11-20-2011, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Not in a DR280. To have adequate sensitivity, and to have the requisite pattern control, would take four per cab.

Bill,

What does DR stand for?

JSS
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post #654 of 1145 Old 11-20-2011, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

Bill,

What does DR stand for?

JSS

Double Reverse.

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post #655 of 1145 Old 11-20-2011, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Bill, what do you think of my idea or just keep what I have?

OK guys, here is a sub response using the omnimic system.

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post #656 of 1145 Old 11-20-2011, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Hi Bill, what do you think of my idea or just keep what I have?

No offense, but you really should consider getting a life.

Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design

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post #657 of 1145 Old 11-20-2011, 08:10 AM
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No offense, but you really should consider getting a life.

What does that say about those of us who are vicariously living through MK?
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post #658 of 1145 Old 11-20-2011, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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No offense, but you really should consider getting a life.

Trust me, between my office, my kids, and my rehab for my knees, I need something to relax me.
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post #659 of 1145 Old 11-20-2011, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Btw +/- 2 DBS from 10-150hz is pretty good and +/-3 DBS to 7hz and +/-5 DBS to 5hz.
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post #660 of 1145 Old 11-20-2011, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Very nice, is there a way to horn load a ribbon or is that a bad idea? This ribbon is 100 db sensitive? How loud can it go? In a horn it could be much more dynamic but would it lose it's dispersion qualities? I wonder how the eminence kappa lite HO compares to the best 12's as in sound quality and Midbass? In these designs distortion and compression is at a minimum, well, for HT anyways!

As wonderful as many planar drivers (or any driver) can be, and many of them offer incredible performance capabilities, however properly integrating them into a powerful, coherent, yet solidly transparent window into the material is key. IMO, dynamics are vitally important, I mean it's an aspect I preach often in threads daily, and it's even in my signature tag-line. MK's the last one I need to explain the importance of dynamics to, but it's truly a indispensable ingredient to a realistic HT experience. All this said, all the killer realistic dynamics without a solid and cohesive effort between all the speakers elements (drivers, cabinet etc.), the presentation becomes less conducive to extended sessions free from artifacts and non-linearities,... both those easily heard and those more subtle.

My point is, as fun as it is considering different drivers and exchanging them into various existing designs, it's difficult at best to achieve a coherent, uncolored, transparent design that's free from peaky resonances, diffraction issues, and most importantly, powerful uncolored mid-band that doesn't harshen up at live levels. I'm certain MK realizes this, however many following along may not.

FWIW,...I've experimented significantly with high sensitivity/high output designs in the home environment. Not DIY, but off the shelf products. I've taken measurements, but I'm concerned with subjective differences at the LP, and how high power pro approaches translate in the typical home HT space,..small room acoustics. The above issues are exactly the obstacles I've found; peaky resonances, diffraction problems, colored mid-band that does harshen up at live levels. So, the holy grail are high output designs that employ work-arounds to these issues. In many inexpensive, less than properly optimized approaches, you can get pounding dynamics, but not without artifacts. Weighing what characteristics you can live with is key. For me, without hearing many designs, cabinet solidity, inertness etc., can quickly eliminate many prospects. Merely matching up driver sensitivities and exchanging drivers, one can end up chasing your tail.

Some of those characteristics are easily heard, some flesh out over time.

MK, again, I enjoy your enthusiasm, and your search for your equipment choices. Thanks for sharing so many details. Many don't care for the subjective opinions etc., I've got no problem with it.

Keep up the good work.

Now, on to your OmniMic graph, what level of smoothing is applied, and where exactly is the measurement taken? How hot are your subs relative to the midband? What kind of signal shaping, etc., is applied with the subs in the graph? Have you measured/calculated how much PVG you've got, and where it kicks in?

Have fun with the OmniMic, it's a nice tool. I've been playing/experimenting with it's capabilities for a year now.


All the best

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