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post #721 of 1145 Old 12-05-2011, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

They are about 20 inches from the wall.

The front or rear of the cab? If the front that would give an Allison Effect cancellation notch around 170Hz. If the rear the cancellation notch might be below the mains passband, depending on the depth of the cab. THX theatrical installs specify walling in the cab fronts to eliminate the potential for Allison Effect.

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post #722 of 1145 Old 12-05-2011, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

The front or rear of the cab? If the front that would give an Allison Effect cancellation notch around 170Hz. If the rear the cancellation notch might be below the mains passband, depending on the depth of the cab. THX theatrical installs specify walling in the cab fronts to eliminate the potential for Allison Effect.

The back of the cabs are about 20 inches away.
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post #723 of 1145 Old 12-06-2011, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

The back of the cabs are about 20 inches away.

What you want to avoid is having the front of the cabs 1/4 wavelength from the rear wall within their passband.

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post #724 of 1145 Old 12-06-2011, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

What you want to avoid is having the front of the cabs 1/4 wavelength from the rear wall within their passband.

I don't know what that means. Can you enlighten me?
I EQ a flat response and really don't have any huge nulls or peaks. My goal is to have 3 DR-280's with the Kappalite HO woofer with my 4 DR-200's as surrounds. I have 8 18 inch sealed drivers with a 10k watt amp for the bottom.
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post #725 of 1145 Old 12-06-2011, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I don't know what that means. Can you enlighten me?
I EQ a flat response and really don't have any huge nulls or peaks. My goal is to have 3 DR-280's with the Kappalite HO woofer with my 4 DR-200's as surrounds. I have 8 18 inch sealed drivers with a 10k watt amp for the bottom.

SBIR

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------------------------------------
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post #726 of 1145 Old 12-06-2011, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

What you want to avoid is having the front of the cabs 1/4 wavelength from the rear wall within their passband.

Is that why many theater installations use a baffle wall?
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post #727 of 1145 Old 12-06-2011, 07:39 AM
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And also why many HTs put absorption on the front wall.


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post #728 of 1145 Old 12-06-2011, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FOH View Post


SBIR

Thanks, my walls are all treated behind each speaker and everywhere else. My walls are not even drywall they are sound absorbing board covered in the fabric.
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post #729 of 1145 Old 12-06-2011, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrager View Post

Is that why many theater installations use a baffle wall?

Yes. When Tom Holman developed THX he found that without walling the cabs in he got a 24dB deep notch centered near 125Hz, where the cab depth of 30 inches put them 1/4 wavelength from the wall behind them.

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post #730 of 1145 Old 12-06-2011, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I don't know what that means. Can you enlighten me?
I EQ a flat response and really don't have any huge nulls or peaks. My goal is to have 3 DR-280's with the Kappalite HO woofer with my 4 DR-200's as surrounds. I have 8 18 inch sealed drivers with a 10k watt amp for the bottom.

MK,

What device do you use to EQ your DR200?
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post #731 of 1145 Old 12-06-2011, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Thanks, my walls are all treated behind each speaker and everywhere else. My walls are not even drywall they are sound absorbing board covered in the fabric.

Yes, but does it cover (thickness)the passband of the speakers, as Bill pointed out?

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------------------------------------
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post #732 of 1145 Old 12-06-2011, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrager View Post

Is that why many theater installations use a baffle wall?

It's the driving force behind soffited mains in studios

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post #733 of 1145 Old 12-06-2011, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I actually have a great response from 80-200hz in my room. I have 2 inch thick panels plus wall to wall 1 inch thick sound board and super chunks in every corner from floor to ceiling.
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post #734 of 1145 Old 12-11-2011, 08:10 PM
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Any news on the modified DR 280.
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post #735 of 1145 Old 12-12-2011, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

Any news on the modified DR 280.

Not yet. I did finally get omnimic working and measured my subs with and without EQ. Here are the differences:

Without EQ



WITH EQ



I copied the original graph to REW and applied EQ for the filters and then put in the filters. It makes manual EQ a breeze. The only problem is that most of the time REW recommends more filters that I have. I am running them flatter than this right now and the low frequencies are much better as they are not masked by the midbass anymore. I can feel every ripple and shake now rather than that crazy loud audible bass(was good though). I ran this at reference and I used Tron as the demo and it was quieter and more visceral at the same time, I liked it much better than before.

I am having the BFM DR-280's built for me and using my DR-200's as surrounds. To me this will be the ultimate cinema experience and I will add more low end too!
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post #736 of 1145 Old 12-12-2011, 12:54 PM
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Nuff said!

Let's all go to the lobby
....Let's all go to the lobby
........Let's all go to the lobby
............To get ourselves a treat!
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post #737 of 1145 Old 12-12-2011, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Nuff said!

Not yet, I am going for more!! I want to get rid of the notch below 6 hz
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post #738 of 1145 Old 12-12-2011, 03:52 PM
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MK,

Can you share with us what the differences would be between a dual compression HF section on your DR's and the peizo array? Pros and cons?

Assuming your builder has discussed this with you in regards to your goals for the new speakers.
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post #739 of 1145 Old 12-12-2011, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

MK,

Can you share with us what the differences would be between a dual compression HF section on your DR's and the peizo array? Pros and cons?

Assuming your builder has discussed this with you in regards to your goals for the new speakers.

The difference is distance. The line Array is better at closer or shorter distances. I never heard the dual CD setup but the peizo's work great. They have every bit of detail and sound even more dynamic. The eD's are sounding great right now and I am going to try putting the DR's back in but without the T-39 bass cabs. I want to hear what they can do alone.
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post #740 of 1145 Old 12-12-2011, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I am having the BFM DR-280's built for me and using my DR-200's as surrounds. To me this will be the ultimate cinema experience and I will add more low end too!

Holy moley, those will be some big surrounds - can't wait to see the pics of that!


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post #741 of 1145 Old 12-12-2011, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Holy moley, those will be some big surrounds - can't wait to see the pics of that!

I will pole mount 2 of them so I can move them. They will be huge surrounds as they are big mains.
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post #742 of 1145 Old 12-13-2011, 04:55 AM
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Thanks for posting the graphs, any current pics?

------------------------------------
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------------------------------------
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(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
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post #743 of 1145 Old 12-13-2011, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Not yet. I did finally get omnimic working and measured my subs with and without EQ. Here are the differences:



WITH EQ



I copied the original graph to REW and applied EQ for the filters and then put in the filters. It makes manual EQ a breeze. The only problem is that most of the time REW recommends more filters that I have. I am running them flatter than this right now and the low frequencies are much better as they are not masked by the midbass anymore. I can feel every ripple and shake now rather than that crazy loud audible bass(was good though). I ran this at reference and I used Tron as the demo and it was quieter and more visceral at the same time, I liked it much better than before.

I am having the BFM DR-280's built for me and using my DR-200's as surrounds. To me this will be the ultimate cinema experience and I will add more low end too!

That looks good, but I noticed you mentioned REW recommends more filters than you have. This is one downfall of that software's auto filter suggestion, as it's best to use as few filters as possible; the more you use, the less headroom you have, especially when you EQ down low. Try manually adding your own filters (as few as possible) to EQ the response (when you do so, watch the predicted graph line to get the desired response); only fix the necessary portions of the response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Not yet, I am going for more!! I want to get rid of the notch below 6 hz

Good look. Anything that low in the response won't be measured accurately and is likely an anomaly. I wouldn't bother. I highly recommend checking out some of the REW threads over at Home Theater Shack's forums. There are some real REW guru's and some of them have written some enlightening articles regarding the software that might aid you in your quest.


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post #744 of 1145 Old 12-13-2011, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post


That looks good, but I noticed you mentioned REW recommend more filters than you have. This is one downfall of that software, as it's best to use as few filters as possible. Try manually adding your own filters (as few as possible) to EQ the response. only fix the necessary portions of the response.

Good look. Anything that low in the response won't be measured accurately and is likely an anomaly. I wouldn't bother.

I understand and all I am doing is buying the amp that rolls off at 2 hz and not 6.5hz. It really is not needed as nobody could ever hear or feel the difference. I guess we get stuck on making pretty graphs instead. I will try to EQ myself.
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post #745 of 1145 Old 12-13-2011, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I understand and all I am doing is buying the amp that rolls off at 2 hz and not 6.5hz. It really is not needed as nobody could ever hear or feel the difference. I guess we get stuck on making pretty graphs instead. I will try to EQ myself.

Hehe, I've been guilty of trying to make graphs pretty myself. In the end, all that matters is that you think it sounds good. It just so happens that generally a flatter response or a house curve sounds better to many people.

I look forward to seeing how your EQ results come out. The less filters applied the better the sound should be and the more headroom you'll have. Also, remember that boosting down real low will greatly limit headroom (the power of the amplifiers). Oh, and have fun!


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post #746 of 1145 Old 12-13-2011, 06:47 AM
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MK have you tested REW against omnimic and the RS meter to confirm similar results or are you just on the omnimic for the moment?

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post #747 of 1145 Old 12-16-2011, 11:04 AM
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I had the pleasure of listening to this system the other day and just wanted to give some unbiased, amateur feedback

Imagine you are at your favorite movie at your favorite IMAX theater, sitting in the sweet spot. Now imagine that you kicked everyone else out of the theater and turned up the soundtrack +5dB. Add 50% more subwoofers and the amps to drive them, and you're almost there!

The clarity of the low-end in this theater room is astounding. I have been very pleased with my ~20hz THX-rated subwoofers in my small theater area, but had no idea what else I was missing out on until I felt what this system can do. Forget butt-kickers or any gimicks and throw thousands of watts of sealed, crisp, clear bass my way any day! I couldn't stop smiling through the demos of War of the Worlds, X-Men 3, Tron, etc. James even turned off the low-end EQ for a brief second demo of Tron and, even through the ear-bleeding madness, my cheek muscles grew sore from all of the grinning! If anyone has any hesitation about the setup or equipment being run, please, don't, as this is the rear-deal, and then some!
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post #748 of 1145 Old 12-16-2011, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by athruc View Post

I had the pleasure of listening to this system the other day and just wanted to give some unbiased, amateur feedback

Imagine you are at your favorite movie at your favorite IMAX theater, sitting in the sweet spot. Now imagine that you kicked everyone else out of the theater and turned up the soundtrack +5dB. Add 50% more subwoofers and the amps to drive them, and you're almost there!

The clarity of the low-end in this theater room is astounding. I have been very pleased with my ~20hz THX-rated subwoofers in my small theater area, but had no idea what else I was missing out on until I felt what this system can do. Forget butt-kickers or any gimicks and throw thousands of watts of sealed, crisp, clear bass my way any day! I couldn't stop smiling through the demos of War of the Worlds, X-Men 3, Tron, etc. James even turned off the low-end EQ for a brief second demo of Tron and, even through the ear-bleeding madness, my cheek muscles grew sore from all of the grinning! If anyone has any hesitation about the setup or equipment being run, please, don't, as this is the rear-deal, and then some!

I can vouch for everything he says as I listened to it also. But not the latest speaker set up. I couldn't of described it any better. Which speaker set up did you listen to Athruc? Did you like the DR's and the Titans?
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post #749 of 1145 Old 12-16-2011, 03:43 PM
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I didn't get to listen to the DR's unfortunately, but if they are any better than those compression drivers (which I hear they are), wow. I can't wait to see the "final" setup!
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post #750 of 1145 Old 12-16-2011, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Athruc heard the eD front stage with the M&K's in the rear. It was good even with blown tweeters back there. BBdrums heard my JBL system but my bass was not working so he still has no idea what the bass can sound like. I think the BFM system sounds better than both so it should become wicked once I have 7 DR speakers in place. The DR's are more dynamic with the extended highs and big sound. It is quite the experience.
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