Speaker Shootout!! - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 1145 Old 01-10-2012, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

... After having this kind of mid-bass, I don't know that I can ever go back to an 80hz crossover.

Mind to elaborate??

Regards, Chuck
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post #812 of 1145 Old 01-10-2012, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avliner View Post

Mind to elaborate??

Probably it's his reaction to the totally enveloping midbass. The problem achieving that is the directional information you start getting above 80Hz. If you must place the subs well away from the mains that gets to be a problem. If you can keep the subs closer to the mains, or if you have so many subs that you can't easily directionally locate them, it's not a problem. My David tower speakers run the sub up to 200Hz, no problem, but that's because the sub and MTM are in the same vertical footprint.

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post #813 of 1145 Old 01-10-2012, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Probably it's his reaction to the totally enveloping midbass. The problem achieving that is the directional information you start getting above 80Hz. If you must place the subs well away from the mains that gets to be a problem. If you can keep the subs closer to the mains, or if you have so many subs that you can't easily directionally locate them, it's not a problem. My David tower speakers run the sub up to 200Hz, no problem, but that's because the sub and MTM are in the same vertical footprint.

Agreed, I was worried that my surrounds would sound weird with the Midbass coming from the front and the highs from the back but with subs all the way across the front room you can't tell. Now this is with movies.

Btw guys, I tried an 80hz crossover and it still sound great! Why? Because the DR-200 is still at 98+ dB's with 1 watt and the 280's are 3-4 dB's higher. So they still can do it they will just have a slight decrease in output that will hardly be missed during movies. The reason I notice it is because I have 8 18's doing Midbass!

AVR-Yamaha A830
amps-5 Adcom 555 in 850 watt monoblock mode
sub amp-Sanway FP14K
LCR-Dual stacked BFM DR-250's
Surrounds- Dual stacked BFM W10's
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post #814 of 1145 Old 01-10-2012, 12:25 PM
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Thanks a bunch Bill & MK

Regards, Chuck
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post #815 of 1145 Old 01-11-2012, 09:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys, $100 each for the T-39's, the DR-200 is spoken for. If you want midbass these are the ticket!

AVR-Yamaha A830
amps-5 Adcom 555 in 850 watt monoblock mode
sub amp-Sanway FP14K
LCR-Dual stacked BFM DR-250's
Surrounds- Dual stacked BFM W10's
subs-12 SI 18's ported 6hz.
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post #816 of 1145 Old 01-11-2012, 11:19 AM
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You don't plan on selling the custom eD's do you?
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post #817 of 1145 Old 01-11-2012, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

You don't plan on selling the custom eD's do you?

Yes I am. Not a fire sale but cheaper than I paid. I could just return them too.

AVR-Yamaha A830
amps-5 Adcom 555 in 850 watt monoblock mode
sub amp-Sanway FP14K
LCR-Dual stacked BFM DR-250's
Surrounds- Dual stacked BFM W10's
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post #818 of 1145 Old 01-12-2012, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I am going to cool it for a couple months and start more measuring and tweaking. I have not measured since the change yet. An AVS member came over this weekend and I sent him home with a F-20, Ashly 2002 amp, and 2 60 inch high super chunk bass traps. He also got 3-4 2 inch insulation for acoustic panels. Oh ya, all for $100!

Please do some measurements, before and after EQ. For people with AT screens and a lower budget that want big sound, DRs may be the ticket, as long as they are aimed properly.

Very interested to see what you think of the WH. I think that they will work well once EQ'ed.

Also, PICS?

JSS
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post #819 of 1145 Old 01-12-2012, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

Please do some measurements, before and after EQ. For people with AT screens and a lower budget that want big sound, DRs may be the ticket, as long as they are aimed properly.

Very interested to see what you think of the WH. I think that they will work well once EQ'ed.

Also, PICS?

JSS

Once everything is in place I will do everything, measurements, pics, no EQ, with EQ, etc.. The DR's absolutely need aiming because they act like a line array. However, they were made for stacking so if I ever wanted to I could stack 4 of them and then aiming would not be needed at all. Right now I have them firing downward with the top of the cabinet about 60 inches high. I am not sure of the angle but they are about 30 degrees or so. If I stand up(75 inches) I lose lots of spl and feel since I am out of the line array. They also don't have crossovers, just LP and HP filters. I just let MCCAC do its thing and listen to it afterwards. They sound great and good enough to return the eD's and everything else. They are my favorite speaker right now.

AVR-Yamaha A830
amps-5 Adcom 555 in 850 watt monoblock mode
sub amp-Sanway FP14K
LCR-Dual stacked BFM DR-250's
Surrounds- Dual stacked BFM W10's
subs-12 SI 18's ported 6hz.
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post #820 of 1145 Old 01-12-2012, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mktheater View Post

hey guys, $100 each for the t-39's, the dr-200 is spoken for. If you want midbass these are the ticket!

pm
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post #821 of 1145 Old 01-12-2012, 04:44 PM
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So by aiming you mean in the vertical plane? I assume since they're supposed to have wide horizontal dispersion, that they woudn't necessarily need aiming in the horizontal plane (toe in)?
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post #822 of 1145 Old 01-12-2012, 06:31 PM
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Good question, Brad. The DRs absolutely need to be aimed carefully in the vertical direction, the best sound will be orthogonal to the midpoint of the tweeter array. I have never seen a horizontal off axis graph for a DR200 save for this one:



I would imagine that some horizontal aiming of L/R could be of benefit, but without more off-axis measurements (5 to 10deg increments), one cannot be sure.

DR280, being wider, would probably begin to have the drop in off axis spl at a lower freq, but it is designed as a 'longer throw' cab.

You up for off-axis measurements of a DR, MK?

JSS

PS - I have my L/R crossover at 200Hz, and my THT mouths are just below and to the right of my L/R speakers. All other speakers cross in at 110Hz.
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post #823 of 1145 Old 01-12-2012, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

Good question, Brad. The DRs absolutely need to be aimed carefully in the vertical direction, the best sound will be orthogonal to the midpoint of the tweeter array. I have never seen a horizontal off axis graph for a DR200 save for this one:

I would imagine that some horizontal aiming of L/R could be of benefit, but without more off-axis measurements (5 to 10deg increments), one cannot be sure.

DR280, being wider, would probably begin to have the drop in off axis spl at a lower freq, but it is designed as a 'longer throw' cab.

You up for off-axis measurements of a DR, MK?

JSS

PS - I have my L/R crossover at 200Hz, and my THT mouths are just below and to the right of my L/R speakers. All other speakers cross in at 110Hz.

I will once I escape. I have not had time to measure with the new baby. The only time I have been in the theater lately is when a member picks up some subs or speakers and then I ran a demo. I did toe in the left and right speakers a bit but not much. I will measure when I can. I know the dialog is crystal clear off axis just from demos. The member you just bought the F-20 comments on 4 things, the projector and screen, the clarity of vocals, and the bass.

AVR-Yamaha A830
amps-5 Adcom 555 in 850 watt monoblock mode
sub amp-Sanway FP14K
LCR-Dual stacked BFM DR-250's
Surrounds- Dual stacked BFM W10's
subs-12 SI 18's ported 6hz.
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post #824 of 1145 Old 01-19-2012, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I will once I escape. I have not had time to measure with the new baby. The only time I have been in the theater lately is when a member picks up some subs or speakers and then I ran a demo. I did toe in the left and right speakers a bit but not much. I will measure when I can. I know the dialog is crystal clear off axis just from demos. The member you just bought the F-20 comments on 4 things, the projector and screen, the clarity of vocals, and the bass.

I read your entire thread in one setting. Incredible! Btw, what pj and screen do you have?

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post #825 of 1145 Old 01-24-2012, 06:23 PM
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Bump. Anything new MK?

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post #826 of 1145 Old 01-25-2012, 06:37 AM
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He should be getting his BFM Wedgehorn 6's today. I'll bet he'll comment after he's heard them.
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post #827 of 1145 Old 01-25-2012, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I am using a seymourAV XD screen(139 inches) with a pioneer elite projector. It is a JVC Rs2 clone.

Nothing new, I will receive my surrounds today and recalibrate and EQ everything and then take pics of the setup. It might happen this weekend.

AVR-Yamaha A830
amps-5 Adcom 555 in 850 watt monoblock mode
sub amp-Sanway FP14K
LCR-Dual stacked BFM DR-250's
Surrounds- Dual stacked BFM W10's
subs-12 SI 18's ported 6hz.
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post #828 of 1145 Old 01-25-2012, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I am using a seymourAV XD screen(139 inches) with a pioneer elite projector. It is a JVC Rs2 clone.

Nothing new, I will receive my surrounds today and recalibrate and EQ everything and then take pics of the setup. It might happen this weekend.

Update coming soon! The 4 wedges have arrived!

AVR-Yamaha A830
amps-5 Adcom 555 in 850 watt monoblock mode
sub amp-Sanway FP14K
LCR-Dual stacked BFM DR-250's
Surrounds- Dual stacked BFM W10's
subs-12 SI 18's ported 6hz.
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post #829 of 1145 Old 01-25-2012, 06:56 PM
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Good deal, await your review!

JSS
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post #830 of 1145 Old 01-25-2012, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avliner View Post

Mind to elaborate??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Probably it's his reaction to the totally enveloping midbass. The problem achieving that is the directional information you start getting above 80Hz. If you must place the subs well away from the mains that gets to be a problem. If you can keep the subs closer to the mains, or if you have so many subs that you can't easily directionally locate them, it's not a problem. My David tower speakers run the sub up to 200Hz, no problem, but that's because the sub and MTM are in the same vertical footprint.

I have a sub in each corner of the room.

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post #831 of 1145 Old 01-26-2012, 10:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok guys I just installed the wedge 6's as my 4 surrounds and let my AVR EQ them and listened to 2 movies, Tron legacy and LOTR:ROTK and these surrounds kick major butt! They perfectly match the DR's as the theater now sounds more coherent than ever, like when I had 7 identical speakers. They are dynamic and clear, I am impressed! I need more testing but so far love them. I have not heard any system sound this detailed and clear with this much dynamics. Once I clean up a bit I will take pics and then start measuring. For some reason my reference level is now about -10 dB on the MV because above that it is louder than my processor amp combo at 0 dB MV. I am not sure why as they both are THX ULTRA 2 products. I will measure with my meter making sure the levels are the same when I used them before.

AVR-Yamaha A830
amps-5 Adcom 555 in 850 watt monoblock mode
sub amp-Sanway FP14K
LCR-Dual stacked BFM DR-250's
Surrounds- Dual stacked BFM W10's
subs-12 SI 18's ported 6hz.
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post #832 of 1145 Old 01-26-2012, 10:33 PM
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What are the wedge sixes? Link?

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post #833 of 1145 Old 01-26-2012, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Ok guys I just installed the wedge 6's as my 4 surrounds and let my AVR EQ them and listened to 2 movies, Tron legacy and LOTR:ROTK and these surrounds kick major butt! They perfectly match the DR's as the theater now sounds more coherent than ever, like when I had 7 identical speakers. They are dynamic and clear, I am impressed! I need more testing but so far love them. I have not heard any system sound this detailed and clear with this much dynamics. Once I clean up a bit I will take pics and then start measuring. For some reason my reference level is now about -10 dB on the MV because above that it is louder than my processor amp combo at 0 dB MV. I am not sure why as they both are THX ULTRA 2 products. I will measure with my meter making sure the levels are the same when I used them before.

Great news! Can't wait to see measurements...

JSS
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post #834 of 1145 Old 01-26-2012, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

What are the wedge sixes? Link?

http://billfitzmaurice.info/Wedgehorn.html
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post #835 of 1145 Old 01-26-2012, 11:19 PM
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Thanks b. I assumed they were bfm designs after i posted an looked them up. Whats the f3 on those guys? I assume you loaded them with the upgraded 6's MK?

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post #836 of 1145 Old 01-27-2012, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I let my AVR pick the crossover point and it is 150hz for all the speakers. I am using all stock BFM speakers. If I needed more spl I would upgrade.

AVR-Yamaha A830
amps-5 Adcom 555 in 850 watt monoblock mode
sub amp-Sanway FP14K
LCR-Dual stacked BFM DR-250's
Surrounds- Dual stacked BFM W10's
subs-12 SI 18's ported 6hz.
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post #837 of 1145 Old 01-27-2012, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I let my AVR pick the crossover point and it is 150hz for all the speakers. I am using all stock BFM speakers. If I needed more spl I would upgrade.

IIRC you now cross from there straight to the subs right? You dont have any MBM or the 280s?

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post #838 of 1145 Old 01-27-2012, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

IIRC you now cross from there straight to the subs right? You dont have any MBM or the 280s?

Correct, I use DR-200's up front and 4 wedge 6's for the surrounds crossing over at 150hz to my 4 SS18.2's and it sounds awesome! I have to take measurements and Pics.

AVR-Yamaha A830
amps-5 Adcom 555 in 850 watt monoblock mode
sub amp-Sanway FP14K
LCR-Dual stacked BFM DR-250's
Surrounds- Dual stacked BFM W10's
subs-12 SI 18's ported 6hz.
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post #839 of 1145 Old 01-27-2012, 04:55 PM
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Hey MK what are the dimensions of the DR-200's?


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post #840 of 1145 Old 01-27-2012, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey MK what are the dimensions of the DR-200's?

dbl

Around 19 inches cubed

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amps-5 Adcom 555 in 850 watt monoblock mode
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LCR-Dual stacked BFM DR-250's
Surrounds- Dual stacked BFM W10's
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