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post #61 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

Sweet! A recipe I can follow! Can't wait to try it. I had manually set PEQ filters to EQ my sub.

Agreed! Now I can make any speaker flat, This should be a sticky!

Thank you!
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post #62 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Or just buy Omnimic . It's as simple as REW with the rat shack meter, but accurate.

+1

After seeing the omnimic in action --- I'd consider buying one myself if money wasn't an object -- it's kind of expensive at $300 for something that seems very much like an "extra". It is a very nice and easy automated tool to use however!

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #63 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 11:12 AM
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MK, care to post a before and after EQ side by side on the DR's? that would show those of us that are interested exactly how much was needed to EQ them properly...

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post #64 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

+1

After seeing the omnimic in action --- I'd consider buying one myself if money wasn't an object -- it's kind of expensive at $300 for something that seems very much like an "extra". It is a very nice and easy automated tool to use however!

A decent measurement system is far, far more than just an 'extra'. It's an important tool.


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post #65 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

MK, care to post a before and after EQ side by side on the DR's? that would show those of us that are interested exactly how much was needed to EQ them properly...

No Problem
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post #66 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

A decent measurement system is far, far more than just an 'extra'. It's an important tool.

I agree to a point...

But then I think -- $300 is enough to buy me eight or ten steak dinners, 30 trips to the movies, a 16' trampoline for the kids,

or even 300 McDoubles from McDonalds.

At that point, since I'm not measuring anyone's system professionally and my system already sounds great to me...

it seems an extra.

You know you can go a long weigh towards discovering the value of something when compared to how many double cheeseburgers the cost is. At about the best use of $1 I sometimes compare a purchase of some extra to the satisfaction I would get in buying the equivalent in double cheeseburgers. Hey it works for me!

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #67 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 01:32 PM
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I usually do the same thing with food but not McD's...

"How many pizzas is this going to cost me?"


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post #68 of 1145 Old 08-12-2011, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post


I agree to a point...

But then I think -- $300 is enough to buy me eight or ten steak dinners, 30 trips to the movies, a 16' trampoline for the kids,

or even 300 McDoubles from McDonalds.

At that point, since I'm not measuring anyone's system professionally and my system already sounds great to me...

it seems an extra.

You know you can go a long weigh towards discovering the value of something when compared to how many double cheeseburgers the cost is. At about the best use of $1 I sometimes compare a purchase of some extra to the satisfaction I would get in buying the equivalent in double cheeseburgers. Hey it works for me!

Yet folks will spend 1-2K on a "upgraded" or 2nd sub and then 5-6 hundred(or more) on an EQ device or AVR when the 1-3 hundred spent on a properly used measurement device has the potential to provide a far greater improvement to the SQ of their system.

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post #69 of 1145 Old 08-13-2011, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

"How many pizzas is this going to cost me?"

Papa Johns, Pizza Hut, Domino's.......ect? J/K

This thread makes me want to try and build some DR250's soon.


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post #70 of 1145 Old 08-13-2011, 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

Papa Johns, Pizza Hut, Domino's.......ect? J/K

Yeck! No! I only buy good pizzas.


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post #71 of 1145 Old 08-13-2011, 06:04 AM
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Tombstone and Red Baron......

Why did you go with the DR200 instead of the 250 or other MK?


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post #72 of 1145 Old 08-13-2011, 07:22 AM
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I make my own pizza. What then?

Remember, it's called "AV Science"!

My HT
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post #73 of 1145 Old 08-13-2011, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I went with the dr-200 due to size.
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post #74 of 1145 Old 08-13-2011, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

I make my own pizza. What then?

If you're not measuring your pizza, it's entirely possible you could be eating a small pie, whereas you *thought* you were eating a large. Bottom line - measuring *is* essential.

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post #75 of 1145 Old 08-13-2011, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gooddoc View Post

if you're not measuring your pizza, it's entirely possible you could be eating a small pie, whereas you *thought* you were eating a large. Bottom line - measuring *is* essential. :d

lol.

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post #76 of 1145 Old 08-13-2011, 10:44 AM
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By sheer coincidence, I am eating pizza right now as I read and type!

Remember, it's called "AV Science"!

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post #77 of 1145 Old 08-13-2011, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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I have been tinkering with the ada's eq on the dr's as they are my focus right now. I can eq each sPeaker flat but what about when I run them in stereo? Maybe I should eq them nearfield and then buy another eq for the stereo and multichannel lp? I did manage to get them +/- 5 DBS in stereo last night. The funny thing is I have not even run a movie on them yet as I only have 2. I might try them with the m&k a a center and then the dr as a center with the m&k's as mains.
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post #78 of 1145 Old 08-13-2011, 11:45 AM
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Or you could set up as phantom center.


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post #79 of 1145 Old 08-13-2011, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

Or you could set up as phantom center.

Good idea.
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post #80 of 1145 Old 08-13-2011, 07:18 PM
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I am still only able to use a phantom center for my little HT. It works well.

Where you able to break in the drivers on the DR's yet?


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post #81 of 1145 Old 08-13-2011, 10:46 PM
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hey mk, have you considered the relatively new speaks from qsc? horn loaded and powered with built in dsp. street is around $800 ea. 1000w of class d power per speaker included too. since all the dsp is already built in for flat frequency response, seems like a plug and play option for you buddy. they also get great reviews from the pro audio guys all over the web. if not, no worries, i'm sure a million folks are suggesting ideas and you can't try them all. :-)

http://www.qscaudio.com/products/spe...series_K12.php

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post #82 of 1145 Old 08-13-2011, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

hey mk, have you considered the relatively new speaks from qsc? horn loaded and powered with built in dsp. street is around $800 ea. 1000w of class d power per speaker included too. since all the dsp is already built in for flat frequency response, seems like a plug and play option for you buddy. if not, no worries, i'm sure a million folks are suggesting ideas and you can't try them all. :-)

http://www.qscaudio.com/products/spe...series_K12.php

I already tried some K-10's when I had the Sho-10's. I liked the Sho-10's Better. I did 3 hours of testing and eq tonight so I have some graphs to post tomorrow. Long story short I am selling my Triads and 4 M&k surrounds. Talk more later today going to bed.
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post #83 of 1145 Old 08-13-2011, 11:20 PM
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I've always wondered how well Audyssey alone would handle EQing the "wild west" response from BFM's tops in room. Do you still have an Audyssey EQ capable processor MK?


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post #84 of 1145 Old 08-13-2011, 11:37 PM
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"I already tried some K-10's when I had the Sho-10's. I liked the Sho-10's Better. I did 3 hours of testing and eq tonight so I have some graphs to post tomorrow. Long story short I am selling my Triads and 4 M&k surrounds. Talk more later today going to bed."

roger mk. have a good night sleep.

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post #85 of 1145 Old 08-14-2011, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, I am learning to use this new processor with it's PEQ so I think the response of the no eq has some. I will post another no EQ on the right DR again. Here is what I have now when listening to the DR's.

Right DR with no EQ(I think it was on and used some of the lefts EQ, not sure)



Right DR with EQ



Left DR with no EQ



Left DR with EQ



Response while listening in stereo with no EQ



Stereo response with EQ(just letting the 2 EQ'd speakers run together)



I listened to the DR's again and now they sound like a different speaker. The sound now wraps around you. There is more energy and the roughness is like the M&K's, not quite smooth as the Triads. They are very clear and can play as loud as you can stand. They kind of remind me of the JBL's and M&K's combined. I still have to rerun the M&K's and Triads and still get others opinions. So far I am the only person who has heard the DR's setup like this. I ran Tron Legacy in DTs-HD without a center and for those who don't use one you should, it makes a big difference. However, the DR's pulled it off good enough and was very clear. Wait until I post the response from my subs after EQ, I EQ'd it to have a house curve at 15-22hz but 10-15 and 30-80 is flat with each other.

The DR's are proving to be a worthy opponent. Still not broken in all the way but I don't know if I believe in long break in as I think we can loosen up the drivers in 4-5 demos and with me running all these sine waves for EQ it breaks them in as well. I wish one of my friends can come over to help, it would speed things up. I have a feeling I will go with 3 DR's up front and would get 7 but they are too big for my room as surrounds. I will wait to see which speaker will go back there. Maybe the 5000's or one of the new ones coming.
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post #86 of 1145 Old 08-14-2011, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinculum View Post

I've always wondered how well Audyssey alone would handle EQing the "wild west" response from BFM's tops in room. Do you still have an Audyssey EQ capable processor MK?

I am using a processor with PEQ, no Audyssey.
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post #87 of 1145 Old 08-14-2011, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I have been tinkering with the ada's eq on the dr's as they are my focus right now. I can eq each sPeaker flat but what about when I run them in stereo? Maybe I should eq them nearfield and then buy another eq for the stereo and multichannel lp?

I don't think you want to eq them flat (the high frequencies that is) at your LP. If I remember correctly, it is usually recommended you eq them flat to about 12Khz and then give them a downward slope if measuring at your LP. I can't remember the slope off hand.

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post #88 of 1145 Old 08-14-2011, 09:53 AM
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They're not extending to 12kHz. Looks like they're down well over 10dB at that point.

MK, are you ok with that? I know the ears should be the final arbiter, but it seems there's got to be an audible impact with essentially no effective output above 10-11K

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post #89 of 1145 Old 08-14-2011, 10:07 AM
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This is an EQ'd FR of the SHO-10 at 0 and 25 deg off-axis at the MLP and at approx. 1M. The room influence is clear at the MLP, but the roll-off is beyond 12kHz in both measurements.

I have no idea if flat to 12 Khz matters, but I've always been under the impression it would.
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post #90 of 1145 Old 08-14-2011, 10:22 AM
 
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Some measurement tips.

1. Measure the speaker at 1m (2m for a large tower) at the acoustic axis of the speaker i.e. between the drivers, such as the midpoint between the woofer and tweeter in a simple 2 way speaker. Depending on the measuring system used this should be done outside away from any surfaces so you get the true nature of the speaker. Something like TEF you could do inside since you can distinguish between room problems and the speaker. An RTA outside would be better.

2. measure the off axis response of the speaker (rotate the speaker it is easier than moving the mic.) at 15 degree increments up until 75 degrees. Knowing the off axis response will help you decide what type, if any acoustic treatments should be used to create a good soundstage, focus and envelopment. A good off axis response will have a similar response curve to the on axis measurement with slight roll of in the high frequencies. Of axis response is often different between horizontal and vertical. If possible do both but at least do horizontal.

3. To EQ correctly you need to determine what is causing the problem. Some things should be EQ'd and others shouldn't. This could be a topic on itself. But having good speaker measurements as a baseline will help make smart decisions. I wouldn't try to fix speaker anomalies with EQ.

4. If you are using more than 6 EQ filters per channel you are probably over EQing. Unless you are using them for wave shaping.

5. Rooms have a natural roll off starting at about 6-8khz where they will be down a few db by 20khz. I wouldn't fix this would EQ, it can make it sound unnatural although some prefer the add brightness.

6. I wouldn't boost much at all with EQ especially in the modal region below ~300hz.

7. Don't boost more than 3db you will make the amp/speakers work too hard and your probably EQing something you shouldn't.

8. Don't boost narrow dips.

9. Most of your EQ should be cuts.

10. 1/6 octave or better would allow more precision and be preferred for using parametric EQ.

Hope this helps. A good set up room with proper EQ will sound a lot better than any of the auto EQs with possibly the exception of Trinnov.
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