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post #91 of 131 Old 03-08-2012, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

I completely agree that each person has their own impressions and likes/dislikes. In my room/setup, the Series 7 speakers are a cut above my old v6 Monitors to my ears and also to the ears of my four friends who have come over for movies and sports for the last few years (they notice an improvement in sound quality). My friends also comment on how much better the Series 7 speakers I have look when the lights are on, especially when I take the grills off to show them whats underneath.....they would never be able to tell where they were made unless I told them so the quality is definitely good. The salesman I work with at my A/V store of choice loves the Series 7 compared to the v6 (he is the Paradigm expert at that store and deals very closely with his rep). But he also said that a few of the stores sales people still prefer the old v6 Monitors while others love the Series 7's. It all comes down to taste and preference.

What I strongly disagree with is the notion that the v6 Monitors give you a "movie theater experience" with no effort while the Series 7's need more equipment/power to give said experience otherwise they become harsh and sound so bad that any acoustical/qualitative improvements are nullified. Generalized statements in this hobby are very dangerous, and usually wrong, because every room, every person, every chain of components is vastly different. As stated, the Series 7's have nearly the same sensitivity ratings as the Studio and Signature lines.....so unless you want to also generalize that those speakers cannot deliver a "movie theater experience" without audible harshness/clipping unless massive amounts of power are supplied, I would think twice before throwing out said statements because, as stated, I listen at -8dB as my average volume (meaning I go lower, especially for concerts) and all I am using is an Integra receiver that is powering 7 channels without any external help

Agreed! Though looks has nothing to do with Speakers really! I do like the look of the v.7's better though!
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post #92 of 131 Old 03-08-2012, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Stylz25 View Post


Agreed! Though looks has nothing to do with Speakers really! I do like the look of the v.7's better though!

Agreed that looks have nothing to do with speakers, especially when the lights are off and the movie is playing

More of an added benefit if they look good. Definitely not a negative if they look "bad" though. I've always heard rave reviews about the eD Cinema speakers.....really great for movies but in a beauty contest they would be near the bottom. lol
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post #93 of 131 Old 03-08-2012, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

Not sure how you are coming up with these assumptions.....but I only listen to movies loud and the Series 7 are a huge step up in my room from the v6 Monitors I had.

When I had my v6 Monitors my room was treated and all I was using was an Integra DTR-70.3 receiver. The loudest I could listen in my room was -12dB and even than my ears would start to "fatigue" by the end of a longer movie like Tron Legacy or Transformers.

As soon as I put the Series 7's into my room it was night and day. They played just as loud WHILE sounding better. I didn't have to trade loudness for quality: I have both. My average listening level is now -8dB with absolutely no fatigue/harshness/clipping/audible distortion/etc. I just got done doing a Transformers marathon (all three movies in one day) at -8dB and by the end of it my ears wanted more, whereas with my old v6's my ears would have been screaming for a break.

They are generalizations, the science of acoustics, calculations, and some stated assumptions of conditions, like seating distance, desired SPL, etc.
  • Speakers have limitations in their output, based upon how much acoustic energy they output and their limitations of power handling.
  • Speakers start to experience power compression at around 1/10th their rated power handling.

Surely you agree that the v7 Mini Monitor has SOME finite amount of SPL? Wouldn't you say that 2dB of sensitivity is a tradeoff? All I was pointing out that giving up that sensitivity matters IF one is pushing one's system to where it matters, and I described conditions where it might matter. For instance, sitting 15 feet away, with an 87dB speaker, will require 135 watts to output 95dB peaks. Since that's more watts than Paradigm states the speaker can handle, then one will experience the Bad Things. If it's a poorer receiver, then the Bad Thing might be amp clipping. If one is using your beefy Integra, it might be whatever the speaker does that made Paradigm state the it won't handle that much power.

Assuming you are calibrated such that 0dB means 105dB peaks from each speaker...
With the v6, you'd need 34 watts per channel to achieve 93dB peaks (-12dBFS) from 12 feet away (I'm assuming your distance).

With the v7, you'd need 135 watts to achieve the 97dB peaks you should get from -8dBFS.
That looks to be close to the limit of your receiver, but of course that all depends on your seating distance and how heavily your room is or isn't treated.

I'm glad you experienced an improvement. It might be that the change in the tweeter and crossover rolls off the highs more, reducing the perceived level of distortion at high output. It may be that the tweeter previously, at any level, exhibited ringing and odd order distortion artifacts which were objectionable, and the upgrade removes that.

It could also be that Paradigm changed the nature of their measurements and ratings to be more stringent. Sensitivity can be an average over a frequency range, or it can be at just one frequency. Max amp power rating can be at some failure point of the speaker, or where distortion reaches some threshold of objectionable level.

I'll grant you that they may have reduced distortion without it affecting the power handling capabilities. Or they were too lazy to test and revise the numbers. Sure would be nice if more companies would actually tell us, "This is the point where this speaker distorts X%. This is the level of power compression at 1/10, 1/2, and full rated power."

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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

though going by your logic one would never want to upgrade to Studio or Signatures, either, since their sensitivities are lower than the v6 Monitors and therefore "The above speaker will yield dynamic compression and harshness that FAR outweigh any of the other benefits from that line of speaker"

Again, I said it depends on one's goals. If one is listening at lower levels, then a tiny T-Amp will suitably power the speakers, and we don't care about efficiency, do we? In that case, the benefit is the aesthetics of the speakers, their dispersion characteristics (off-axis response), low levels of distortion, smoother frequency response, and lack of coloration due to drivers, crossover, cabinet resonance, and diffraction effects, etc. all are benefits that I don't discount.

And still there are several engineering ratings that are different between the Mini Monitor and the equivalent Reference speakers:
  • The Mini Monitor v7 has a recommended amplifier range up to 100w and 86dB sensitivity.
  • The Studio 20 has an amplifier range up to 180w, same 86dB sensitivity.
  • The Signature S2 has an amplifier range up to 225w, 87dB sensitivity.
The Reference medium-efficiency speakers are capable of being driven by beefier amps, like a 200wpc XPA-3.

Going by your logic (or rather objection to my logic), one would never need a more sensitive speaker than 87dB with 100w power handling, because it can infinitely produce sound without problem at any level to any distance. I'm surprised I don't see them used in large outdoor concerts!
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post #94 of 131 Old 03-08-2012, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post

They are generalizations, the science of acoustics, calculations, and some stated assumptions of conditions, like seating distance, desired SPL, etc.
  • Speakers have limitations in their output, based upon how much acoustic energy they output and their limitations of power handling.
  • Speakers start to experience power compression at around 1/10th their rated power handling.

Surely you agree that the v7 Mini Monitor has SOME finite amount of SPL? Wouldn't you say that 2dB of sensitivity is a tradeoff? All I was pointing out that giving up that sensitivity matters IF one is pushing one's system to where it matters, and I described conditions where it might matter. For instance, sitting 15 feet away, with an 87dB speaker, will require 135 watts to output 95dB peaks. Since that's more watts than Paradigm states the speaker can handle, then one will experience the Bad Things. If it's a poorer receiver, then the Bad Thing might be amp clipping. If one is using your beefy Integra, it might be whatever the speaker does that made Paradigm state the it won't handle that much power.

Assuming you are calibrated such that 0dB means 105dB peaks from each speaker...
With the v6, you'd need 34 watts per channel to achieve 93dB peaks (-12dBFS) from 12 feet away (I'm assuming your distance).

With the v7, you'd need 135 watts to achieve the 97dB peaks you should get from -8dBFS.
That looks to be close to the limit of your receiver, but of course that all depends on your seating distance and how heavily your room is or isn't treated.

I'm glad you experienced an improvement. It might be that the change in the tweeter and crossover rolls off the highs more, reducing the perceived level of distortion at high output. It may be that the tweeter previously, at any level, exhibited ringing and odd order distortion artifacts which were objectionable, and the upgrade removes that.

It could also be that Paradigm changed the nature of their measurements and ratings to be more stringent. Sensitivity can be an average over a frequency range, or it can be at just one frequency. Max amp power rating can be at some failure point of the speaker, or where distortion reaches some threshold of objectionable level.

I'll grant you that they may have reduced distortion without it affecting the power handling capabilities. Or they were too lazy to test and revise the numbers. Sure would be nice if more companies would actually tell us, "This is the point where this speaker distorts X%. This is the level of power compression at 1/10, 1/2, and full rated power."



Again, I said it depends on one's goals. If one is listening at lower levels, then a tiny T-Amp will suitably power the speakers, and we don't care about efficiency, do we? In that case, the benefit is the aesthetics of the speakers, their dispersion characteristics (off-axis response), low levels of distortion, smoother frequency response, and lack of coloration due to drivers, crossover, cabinet resonance, and diffraction effects, etc. all are benefits that I don't discount.

And still there are several engineering ratings that are different between the Mini Monitor and the equivalent Reference speakers:
  • The Mini Monitor v7 has a recommended amplifier range up to 100w and 86dB sensitivity.
  • The Studio 20 has an amplifier range up to 180w, same 86dB sensitivity.
  • The Signature S2 has an amplifier range up to 225w, 87dB sensitivity.
The Reference medium-efficiency speakers are capable of being driven by beefier amps, like a 200wpc XPA-3.

Going by your logic (or rather objection to my logic), one would never need a more sensitive speaker than 87dB with 100w power handling, because it can infinitely produce sound without problem at any level to any distance. I'm surprised I don't see them used in large outdoor concerts!

I did not know we were talking about the Mini Monitors.....I was going by the Monitor 11's/Studio 100's/Signature S8's so I apologize for not having this discussion on the right track to begin with. Though I should correct you that in-room the Mini Monitors are 90dB, not 87dB.

I was just a little put off by the car analogy that you basically either want power or performance implying that the Series 7's are only good for quality of sound (performance) without having any power behind them. To me the Series 7's mesh both aspects (good sensitivity/power handling and good acoustical output) together fairly well (definitely better than the v6's) for a good price point. So much so that the Paradigm rep for the A/V shop I use has stated on multiple occassions that they need to do some major upgrades to the Studio line because the Series 7's really closed the gap to the point of the Monitor 11's being a formidable contender to the current Studio 100's (his words). He has also stated that with the v6's they were trying to compete with the ultra-high sensitivity speakers (like Klipsch) while sacrificing quality of sound, hence why with the Series 7's they dialed back the sensitivity a little bit to be able to use more neutral/acoustically good sounding drivers/tweeter and components but still deliver big/loud sound (best of both worlds). Again, this is all the opinions and statements made by a Paradigm rep to my salesman.

They may be made in China, but the Series 7 still have all of the technological research and design Paradigm is known for. Considering price for price the Series 7's are more expensive than the v6 line was DESPITE them being manufactured in China shows how much these speakers are truly worth. Imagine how much more they would cost if manufactured in Canada. Wouldn't be too much more of a price difference between the Monitors and Studios if that was the case. I also bet if that was the case more people would be acceptable of the Series 7 even though it would be the same exact speaker it is now
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post #95 of 131 Old 03-08-2012, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

What I strongly disagree with is the notion that the v6 Monitors give you a "movie theater experience" with no effort while the Series 7's need more equipment/power to give said experience otherwise they become harsh and sound so bad that any acoustical/qualitative improvements are nullified.

I'd disagree with that notion, too. I certainly never said "To get the movie theater experience, get the V6!" I said that to get a little more like movie theater levels you'd want to use a speaker with greater sensitivity. Paradigm itself has stated that the V7 produces 2dB less output...I didn't make it up.

Two or three dB doesn't sound like much, but it can make a huge difference if you're on the threshold. My Paradigms (Monitor 5) give me 94dB from listening position. I must be at the limits of my 120w receiver at that level. Turning it up just one, and then another dB, shows distortion rising exponentially! This is borne out in listening where it gets harsh at those levels. You can also look at receiver dB / THD graphs and see that almost vertical climb into high distortion right above the limit of its wpc rating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

Generalized statements in this hobby are very dangerous, and usually wrong, because every room, every person, every chain of components is vastly different. As stated, the Series 7's have nearly the same sensitivity ratings as the Studio and Signature lines.....so unless you want to also generalize that those speakers cannot deliver a "movie theater experience" without audible harshness/clipping unless massive amounts of power are supplied, I would think twice before throwing out said statements because, as stated, I listen at -8dB as my average volume (meaning I go lower, especially for concerts) and all I am using is an Integra receiver that is powering 7 channels without any external help

Sensitivity is not the only way to get high SPL out of a speaker.
You can get huge, undistorted output from low-sensitivity speakers: they just need to be able to handle lots of power. Paradigm says that the Minis will handle 80 watts of slightly clipped power. The Studios and the Signatures can handle way more power.

Another generalization is that most people don't realize they're compressing the dynamics on peaks. If they've never heard distortion-free, high dynamic soundtracks without compression, they can't tell if they're missing it. It's not very obvious when one experiences compression. It just means the peaks are squashed, you don't get the same impact, or you get more harshness (like darkpoet25 attested to) when the speaker doesn't perform linearly on the peaks.

You have a great receiver. Twice the output of poorly-built "100w" receivers that more realistically output 70w or less. I can imagine many people driving the amp into clipping trying to attain the higher levels, where you wouldn't experience that at all.
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post #96 of 131 Old 03-08-2012, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

Though I should correct you that in-room the Mini Monitors are 90dB, not 87dB.

I apologize that I didn't qualify it as anechoic, although you didn't correct me, you just provided a different way spec'ing sensitivity. I always use anechoic. Paradigm quotes both, to their credit.

I think if one has heavily treated their room, they're going to get closer to an anechoic response. If not, it'll be more like the in-room. In my case, I added six 2" absorbers and I had to turn my receiver up about 3dB to get the same SPL, and I noticed the harshness. I'm sure I was oblivious to compressed peaks before, but I listened more and more and compared to other systems which had effortless dynamics. This made me more interested in the limits of speakers.

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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

I was just a little put off by the car analogy that you basically either want power or performance implying that the Series 7's are only good for quality of sound (performance) without having any power behind them. To me the Series 7's mesh both aspects (good sensitivity/power handling and good acoustical output) together fairly well (definitely better than the v6's) for a good price point.

I guess there are a lot of aspects to a car's "performance," and its "power" relates to performance metrics of top speed, acceleration, and towing capability.

Likewise, there are many speaker performance metrics, and some of them are max continuous levels (which most people never reach in typical rooms), max peak levels (which I think many people butt up against a lot more than they realize), and their distortion at those levels. Sensitivity and power handling come into play for those metrics.

There are other metrics like distortion, off-axis response, etc. I suggest that more important than the dB level of the off-axis response, is how smooth and similar the off-axis response is to the on-axis response. If there are a lot of aberrations, the reflections will color the sound more (aka distortion).

Many Klipsch speakers, especially the non-Reference line, are known for their harshness and "honk sound" where there's excessive midrange. I can imagine Paradigm wouldn't want to produce speakers that exhibited such problems! Klipsch also over-states their sensitivity, with labs measuring them 4dB lower.

I think it's fair to say that, like all things, speakers and cars have performance limitations. And those limitations don't matter if you never butt up against them.
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post #97 of 131 Old 03-08-2012, 02:37 PM
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The other big thing to me regarding speaker performance is tonal quality: warm, neutral, cold. What material is used for the tweeter, midrange, woofer. How is the crossover and internal electrical wiring designed/constructed. How are the drivers mounted. How is the cabinet ported. All of these small, subtle aspects impact how the sound is perceived. Is it "cold" sounding? "Warm" sounding? Or completely neutral and smooth without "coloring" (not due to distortion)? And, obviously, is it worth the Paradigm name?

The thing that was repeated by the Paradigm rep over and over is that the Series 7 closed the gap of being more neutral sounding and having the tonal performance they wanted that wasn't there/was lacking before but some sensitivity had to be sacrificed to do it obviously. Why I really love Paradigm is because they have an outstanding R&D team so they are never done improving. And they let their designs trickle down like corrugated woofers from Signature line being used on the Monitor Sub line for deeper extension and higher SPL or something as simple as the mesh guard from the Signature line (which is necessary because of the Beryllium tweeter) being used for better aesthetics. Just an all around outstanding company who knows what their doing and does it well
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post #98 of 131 Old 03-08-2012, 03:46 PM
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^^
What did you find out as far as the question you were having regarding the tweeter?
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post #99 of 131 Old 03-08-2012, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by dowop View Post

^^
What did you find out as far as the question you were having regarding the tweeter?

My salesman is on vacation until Monday so my curiosity is still awaiting a response
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post #100 of 131 Old 03-08-2012, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post

Yeah at higher volumes you may have gone beyond the speaker's power handling (which is like 80 to 100 watts) if you had something more than the typical 100wpc receiver driving it.

Or its lower sensitivity encouraged you to turn up a receiver to get the volume you wanted, until you drove it onto clipping, even if just brief clipping on peaks. And probably got squashed dynamics.

I heard them at a local A/V retailer, actually. Sorry if the other post was a little misleading. He was using an Integra to demo the speakers, didn't see which model number. The music that was being played through them, for some reason sounded a little 'brittle' to me. I'm sure they sound fine at moderate levels, and are a fine speker, it's just that for me personally I didn't care for their sound.

Cliff
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post #101 of 131 Old 03-08-2012, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

Just an all around outstanding company who knows what their doing and does it well

I agree, they're a great company and I've been overall pretty happy with the five models I've used over the years.

That's true that it's a great advantage to have a premium division paying for trickle down technology to the average joe lines that I can better afford!
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post #102 of 131 Old 03-14-2012, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

My salesman is on vacation until Monday so my curiosity is still awaiting a response

I am considering buying these speakers.
Have you found out anything yet??
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post #103 of 131 Old 03-14-2012, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dowop View Post


I am considering buying these speakers.
Have you found out anything yet??

The Paradigm rep told my salesman that this "issue" was brought to his attention a while ago and when he asked the audio engineers behind the Series 7's about it they were quoted as saying "While the lens placement may not be dead center and uniform for every tweeter produced, they are all within tolerable limits and will not have an impact on the directivity or quality of sound coming from the tweeter."

Basically, even though some of the lenses are off center on the tweeters, it's all within tolerable/quality control limits. So no worries
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post #104 of 131 Old 03-14-2012, 08:05 AM
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OK. Thanks. I might make a trip to Toledo.
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post #105 of 131 Old 03-14-2012, 05:08 PM
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I have a question for those who own the Center 1. I just received mine and it sounded like something was loose inside. I could hear a knocking noise when I would lightly drop a corner from about a half an inch. I opened the back where the binding posts are and saw that the crossover was just free floating in there like it wasn't screwed down to anything. Is this common or do you think it was damaged in shipping?

I hope this is normal. It sounds fine so far. I'm stationed overseas and it would be a pain to have to ship it back to the states to have it looked at.
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post #106 of 131 Old 03-15-2012, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by djdcm0722 View Post

I have a question for those who own the Center 1. I just received mine and it sounded like something was loose inside. I could hear a knocking noise when I would lightly drop a corner from about a half an inch. I opened the back where the binding posts are and saw that the crossover was just free floating in there like it wasn't screwed down to anything. Is this common or do you think it was damaged in shipping?

I hope this is normal. It sounds fine so far. I'm stationed overseas and it would be a pain to have to ship it back to the states to have it looked at.

It most definitely sounds like the crossover got knocked loose during shipping. Not sure how well you can see it, but if it still looks like all the wires are connected inside and it sounds fine to you when you are listening to music/movies, than all is well for right now.

I would be worried that overtime a wire could become loose from tension/cabinet vibration if the crossover is just hanging. If it's rested on the bottom of the speaker box (i.e. - not hanging and pulling/putting tension on connected wires) than I would say it will be OK to keep and not hassle with shipping back.
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post #107 of 131 Old 03-15-2012, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

It most definitely sounds like the crossover got knocked loose during shipping. Not sure how well you can see it, but if it still looks like all the wires are connected inside and it sounds fine to you when you are listening to music/movies, than all is well for right now.

I would be worried that overtime a wire could become loose from tension/cabinet vibration if the crossover is just hanging. If it's rested on the bottom of the speaker box (i.e. - not hanging and pulling/putting tension on connected wires) than I would say it will be OK to keep and not hassle with shipping back.

That's what I like to hear. I will open it up again and see if there is any tension. There is a lot of filler in there. I will probably do it this weekend as I am too busy listening to them right now . If it's too bad, they were insured through USPS and I can take it up with them.
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post #108 of 131 Old 06-03-2012, 11:21 PM
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Hey guys, right now I have a 5.1 Monitor Audio Silver series setup( RX6, RXC and RXFX) hooked up to a Sunfire Cinema Grand amp and Onkyo 809 receiver. I have been a paradigm fan having previously owned the V5 11's CC290 and mini's. I'm liking the new look and philosophy the series 7 have taken. I am always looking to either upgrade or change my system around and wonder how you would compare a similar setup from the s7 to my rx setup.

Also my rx line of speakers are made in china and are awesome! The only thing in my system made in north America is the sunfire amp.

Thanks
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post #109 of 131 Old 07-24-2012, 12:42 AM
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I have monitor 11's, a center 3, and mini monitors... Could somebody tell me which speakers should be set to large or small? I assume the towers can handle the large lower frequencies? What about the others? Thanks.
I sm running them on a vsx-1326k also. Thank you
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post #110 of 131 Old 08-03-2012, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post

Yes, the centers are ported...


Attachment 221982
525x525px-LL-520a60d4_vbattach221982.jpeg

not sure if the above picture is the center 1 or center 3 model.

anyone know how many terminals are on the center 3 (monitor series 7)??? I'm picking one up this weekend and about to put in my 12awg speaker wire and banana plug order in at monoprice.com. want to know if i need to order more speaker wire and banana plugs if there are 4 terminals for me to bi-amp. should i even bi-amp or bi-wire the center 3?
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post #111 of 131 Old 08-03-2012, 11:18 AM
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post #112 of 131 Old 08-03-2012, 07:38 PM
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thanks bryan338
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post #113 of 131 Old 04-16-2013, 05:08 AM
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What are the differences between monitor 9 v7 and monitor 11 v7? My room is 18 feet x 18 feet...
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post #114 of 131 Old 04-16-2013, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milito80 View Post

What are the differences between monitor 9 v7 and monitor 11 v7? My room is 18 feet x 18 feet...
There's quite a bit of difference. The 11's replace the 2 five and a half inch bass drivers in the 9's with 3 six and a half inch drivers. It's also a an inch higher, deeper and 3 inches wider. In your room, the 11's would negate the need for a subwoofer. For the price difference, I'd go with the 11's.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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post #115 of 131 Old 04-16-2013, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by milito80 View Post

What are the differences between monitor 9 v7 and monitor 11 v7? My room is 18 feet x 18 feet...

The Monitor 11 Series 7 utilize a true 3-way design (a first for a Monitor Series speaker). The Monitor 9/7 are 2.5-way designs.

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post #116 of 131 Old 04-16-2013, 03:25 PM
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Are there big differences in sound quality between 9 and 11?
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post #117 of 131 Old 04-17-2013, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post

The Monitor 11 Series 7 utilize a true 3-way design (a first for a Monitor Series speaker). The Monitor 9/7 are 2.5-way designs.

Different speaker because it had powered woofers but the Monitor 90P was a 3 way.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_3/paradigm-monitor-speakers-7-2001.html
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post #118 of 131 Old 04-28-2013, 02:05 AM
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Can you suggest to me a speaker cable for my paradigm monitors 9 v7 and anthem mrs 300? I want to spend max 3$ for feet...thanks
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post #119 of 131 Old 04-28-2013, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milito80 View Post

Can you suggest to me a speaker cable for my paradigm monitors 9 v7 and anthem mrs 300? I want to spend max 3$ for feet...thanks
That's at least three times what you should spend. Look at Monoprice or Bluejeans cables.

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post #120 of 131 Old 01-17-2014, 12:48 PM
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Hey folks =)

I'm looking to place an order for some Monitor 11's V7 and a center 3 today. I've read this thread and noticed folks had said that getting the 11's negates need for a subwoofer? If I have a subwoofer are you saying I'd be better off going with the 9's instead? I'd have thought the 3 way over the 2.5 way would make a difference in that regard. I listened to both the 11's and the 9's and the 11's seemed to have a much wider, fuller sound than the 9's. I demo'd both with no sub.

Also, i need an opinion: Cherry or black?

A quick response would be great as I want to get to the store today before they close at 5 lol.

Thanks!!
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