Which? Hsu HB-1 mk2 vs Aperion Intimus 5b vs Energy RC-10 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 08-25-2011, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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So been reading a lot and I am thinking about one of these 3 speakers and matching center to upgrade part (fronts) of my existing 5.1 set up.

Thought i was sold on Energy then read some great HSU reviews the some Aperion reviews. Also saw an old thread about the HSU from 2007 which may have been the mk1, which was very negative.

Primary usage will be movies/tv and gaming.

Looking for thoughts from people who have heard these choices.

Thanks in advance for the help.
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post #2 of 19 Old 08-25-2011, 10:54 PM
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I've heard the RC-10s but you already knew that Unfortunately in this situation I won't be much help since that is the only one of the 3 I've heard. Sorry

For those looking into getting Energy speakers, or upgrading their current Energy setup, here are some reviews I've written that may help:
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  (haven't updated in a while, but include Energy Take Classic 5.1, RC-10, CF-70, and CC-10)

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post #3 of 19 Old 08-26-2011, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macstatic View Post

I've heard the RC-10s but you already knew that Unfortunately in this situation I won't be much help since that is the only one of the 3 I've heard. Sorry

Yes you have. I've read some good things from the Energy thread. I am torn lol.
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post #4 of 19 Old 08-26-2011, 07:20 AM
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The Aperion speakers have a 100% return policy that includes return shipping. If it was me, I would order those and then one of the other speakers that you are considering (I know HSU has a solid return policy) and then do a face off in your own home. Worst case you pay for the return shipping for the HSU speakers.
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post #5 of 19 Old 08-26-2011, 08:13 AM
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Quote:


Primary usage will be movies/tv and gaming

HSU has the best specs for this purpose. I would not even bother with Aperion products for movies or gaming. They lack any potential to allow for clean dynamics (A requirement for the best gaming/movie experience).

With HSU you atleast get valid sensitivity and proper directivity. Two key design requirements when it comes to dynamics and accuracy.

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post #6 of 19 Old 08-26-2011, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by penngray View Post

HSU has the best specs for this purpose. I would not even bother with Aperion products for movies or gaming. They lack any potential to allow for clean dynamics (A requirement for the best gaming/movie experience).

With HSU you atleast get valid sensitivity and proper directivity. Two key design requirements when it comes to dynamics and accuracy.

Thanks for your comments.
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post #7 of 19 Old 08-26-2011, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

HSU has the best specs for this purpose. I would not even bother with Aperion products for movies or gaming. They lack any potential to allow for clean dynamics (A requirement for the best gaming/movie experience).

With HSU you atleast get valid sensitivity and proper directivity. Two key design requirements when it comes to dynamics and accuracy.

Just for those that might not have noticed - keep in mind that the HSU sensitivity specs are 1/2 space.

IIRC, you'd subtract 3dB to approximate full space (anechoic) sensitivity @ 1M, so it's 89dB.

The Energy RC-10 measured 85.5dB @ 1M in the NRC's anechoic chamber.
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post #8 of 19 Old 11-05-2013, 03:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I would not even bother with Aperion products for movies or gaming. They lack any potential to allow for clean dynamics (A requirement for the best gaming/movie experience).

That's hilarious. I'm not sure how you justify such an absurd blanket statement. I absolutely love my Intimus speakers for theater and first person shooter gaming. They have very good dynamics and that's just one of the many reasons I'm a happy camper with them. And keep in mind, it's not only the speaker that's responsible for dynamic range, it's the amp they're connected to as well.
Just wanted to bump this so anyone considering Aperion speakers for movies and gaming isn't dissuaded by the above ill-informed nonsense.
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post #9 of 19 Old 11-05-2013, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by gts007 View Post

Just wanted to bump this so anyone considering Aperion speakers for movies and gaming isn't dissuaded by the above ill-informed nonsense.

Given this thread is over two years old, I think there was little danger of that- until you brought it back up. Also, the amp usually doesn't have nearly as much to do with dynamics as the speakers, unless you are using one of those little lepai amps or some 5 watt tube amp.
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post #10 of 19 Old 11-06-2013, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by gts007 View Post

That's hilarious. I'm not sure how you justify such an absurd blanket statement. I absolutely love my Intimus speakers for theater and first person shooter gaming. They have very good dynamics and that's just one of the many reasons I'm a happy camper with them. And keep in mind, it's not only the speaker that's responsible for dynamic range, it's the amp they're connected to as well.
Just wanted to bump this so anyone considering Aperion speakers for movies and gaming isn't dissuaded by the above ill-informed nonsense.

The person you are quoting has designed and built many speakers, using drivers that cost much more than than a pair of the top of the line Aperion towers cost. He also measures all of his speaker designs. The problem is his level of expectation of a good HT speaker is much higher than yours. Speakers that many feel are quite good would not pass his performance criteria. Does not just have to do with sound quality. Many speakers have good sound quality. It has to do with sound quality at reference level. Not many speakers can do clean reference levels from lets say 12'. Even harder if you want high sound quality also. Not saying that everyone needs or wants that, just know that it what Penn looks for in a good HT speaker.

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post #11 of 19 Old 11-06-2013, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

The person you are quoting has designed and built many speakers, using drivers that cost much more than than a pair of the top of the line Aperion towers cost. He also measures all of his speaker designs. The problem is his level of expectation of a good HT speaker is much higher than yours. Speakers that many feel are quite good would not pass his performance criteria. Does not just have to do with sound quality. Many speakers have good sound quality. It has to do with sound quality at reference level. Not many speakers can do clean reference levels from lets say 12'. Even harder if you want high sound quality also. Not saying that everyone needs or wants that, just know that it what Penn looks for in a good HT speaker.

While this is a mute point, since this is a two year old thread and all....would the other speakers on the list (HSU hb-1-mk2 and Energy RC10) stand up to the scrutiny that you are saying the Aperions don't meet? otherwise, we are picking one speaker out, holding it to a very high standard and then not mentioned how the other speakers would do giving this same criteria...

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post #12 of 19 Old 11-06-2013, 02:21 PM
 
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Might as well throw a laundry list of other speaker brands into that claim as well. Maybe the Aperions need a good amp to reach the same SPL's that the HSU's can reach on a low end receiver, sure. But saying that a lower sensitivity speaker runs into problems at reference levels is completely different than claiming that it's worthless for movies and has no dynamics.
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post #13 of 19 Old 11-08-2013, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gts007 View Post

Might as well throw a laundry list of other speaker brands into that claim as well. Maybe the Aperions need a good amp to reach the same SPL's that the HSU's can reach on a low end receiver, sure. But saying that a lower sensitivity speaker runs into problems at reference levels is completely different than claiming that it's worthless for movies and has no dynamics.


Very few speakers that are 90db or less can play clean reference levels from 12'. The speaker would need to be able to take over 2,000 watts. Forget about looking at SPL calculators. Some of them do not take distance loss into account and none of them take power compression into account. I used 6db loss for doubling of distance and only used 3db for power compression. You should also include 3db to make sure it is clean. It takes a lot to play clean reference levels.

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post #14 of 19 Old 11-08-2013, 05:59 AM
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Not only that, but speaker companies can game the sensitivity spec in a way that makes these speakers incomparable. Some speaker companies use half-space or in-room measurements without specifying, and many use 2.83V instead of 1 watt to boost their lower impedance speaker sensitivity.
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post #15 of 19 Old 11-10-2013, 01:30 AM
 
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All I can say is that the 5B's have excellent range for midfield use in my not-terribly-big room. Movies and orchestral music is reproduced stunningly well from a dynamics standpoint. Granted, I feed them w/ a dedicated amp which plays a major role in the performance I'm getting out of them. They love the extra juice.
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post #16 of 19 Old 11-10-2013, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gts007 View Post

All I can say is that the 5B's have excellent range for midfield use in my not-terribly-big room. Movies and orchestral music is reproduced stunningly well from a dynamics standpoint. Granted, I feed them w/ a dedicated amp which plays a major role in the performance I'm getting out of them. They love the extra juice.

The amp is unlikely to be a serious factor here. The highest recommended power for the 5B is 200 watts on the product page, but 150 watts in the manual(?). Let's say you moved from a 100 watt/channel AVR to a 200 watt amp. You would only gain an additional 3 dB of loudness which isn't a tremendous increase. What's more, you wouldn't want to run it at that power level continuously because speakers lose fidelity as they near their performance limits. I'm not saying they are bad speakers, on the contrary I think they would be fine, all I am saying is past a certain point the amp is not a big contributor to its performance.
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post #17 of 19 Old 11-10-2013, 01:57 PM
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The amplifier-speaker relationship is going to be the same regardless of setup or environment. If there was a qualitative difference in the sound when you changed amplifiers, either the old one was malfunctioning, or the new one is, or they both were.
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post #18 of 19 Old 11-10-2013, 04:37 PM
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thread cleanup
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post #19 of 19 Old 11-10-2013, 04:45 PM
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^ +1 what shady said. smile.gif

What a long, strange trip its been....
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