Bi-amp centre speaker (help a newb) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 9 Old 10-01-2011, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I've been reading many-a-thread regarding this but I'm a little fuzzy on something...
I've seen more then a few folks say to just use a "y-splitter" on the pre-out from the receiver and run that through an amp.....
I thought bi-amping separately powered the "high" and "Lows" in 2 separate signals... Running a splitter from one output wouldn't achieve that at all, so why bother?
My receiver let's you bi-amp the front left and right (separating signal for "high" and "low" for each speaker). To do this correctly for the center, I'd need a receiver that separates the signal high/low, right? Or are there sound processors that would do that?

Help a newbie out!
Thanks.
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post #2 of 9 Old 10-01-2011, 11:50 PM
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Take a look at the back of your receiver. Regardless of whether you have a 2 way or 3 way speaker the same signal arrives at the speaker terminals. Its the electronics inside the speaker that determine how that signal is utilized. Its called a crossover.

If you are bi-amping from a single receiver don't waste your time. There is nothing to be gained from bi-amping from a single source. You'll only make the wire makers happy.

When all else fails - RTFM!

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post #3 of 9 Old 10-02-2011, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRoey View Post

To do this correctly for the center, I'd need a receiver that separates the signal high/low, right? Or are there sound processors that would do that?

Listen to Knucklehead! (I've never been able to call someone a knucklehead on a forum without them taking offense until now )

To go back to the quote above... "to do this correctly" for any speaker would require gutting some/all of the passive crossover inside the speaker itself and insert an active crossover into the signal chain.

I biamp. It's a 2-channel system but that part is irrelevant.

My signal chain is various sources into a preamp. Leave the preamp into an active crossover which takes (for example) my left signal inside it and splits the signal into two different output signals. Each output signal is then connected to the input of a 2-channel power amp.

Output signal "1" is connected to "left" input and is for the low frequencies. Output signal "2" is connected to "right" input and is for the high frequencies.

My active crossover has any equalization and signal delay programmed into it.

The power amp is then connected to the speaker. "left" output to the woofer and the "right" output to the tweeter. (I'm using a 2-way speaker)

If you are going to biamp a 2-way speaker, that is the traditional (and in my opinion, 'correct') way of doing it. If you have a 3-way speaker you now have an issue of using a passive between the midrange/tweeter or going to a different active crossover and yet another amplifier in the food chain.

I'd personally look into the passive between the midrange/tweeter since for me, a true active 3-way starts to use a lot of plugs & amps.

Doesn't matter in my case since my speakers are only 2-way

All of that to be a knucklehead myself and say, simply enjoy your system as it is
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post #4 of 9 Old 10-02-2011, 06:26 AM
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Do you want a little faux pas bi amping in your center channel ? Try this. Get a small powered 8 inch subwoofer with speaker level inputs and outputs. Run the signal from your receiver center channel out to the right(or left) speaker level input of the sub woofer. Then run the the speaker cable from the speaker level Rt output of sub to your center channel.

You will then have in essence a bi amped center channel with control over the low end crossover and volume on the sub control panel. Set your center channel on your receiver to large sp. to be sure you get full range signals to your sub. It works great and gives bass freaks a reason to use more subs.

I have found that an 8 inch set close to the center channel speaker works well if you are on a budget. If you have a larger center channel, a 12 or 10 inch can add significantly to the overall
bass output of the system too. Use a higher crossover setting then you would normally with your
system sub ( above 100 Hz) to control the low mid range. Then start playing and experimenting.
You will be amazed at how much control you now have over the center channel output.

NO ONE I have suggested this to ever went back. Of course they were all a little bass crazy like me to begin with.
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post #5 of 9 Old 10-02-2011, 06:46 AM
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I basically tri-amp my fronts with the L/C/Rs crossed over using miniDSPs and my UMC-1 handling the crossovers for the subs. My L/C/Rs and subs are all DIY with top of the line drivers. I do recommend active crossovers for DIY projects, it makes it so much easier.
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post #6 of 9 Old 02-10-2014, 01:57 PM
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Quote:

 

hi coytee,

 

You catch my attention due your technical explanation, and definitely you really manage this topic.

 

let me try to brief comment as possible to explain you what i want to do.

 

i'm currently owned DENON AVR3312CI rated @ 125w rms 8ohm

also i do have the DENON 2310CI rated @ 105w rms 8ohm

 

the avr 3312ci, work on 7.1 on non-bi-amp mode, if you go in bi-amp mode you lost 2 channel due the two front main speaker. i was wondering to put my center channel biamp mode with my receiver. and looks the only way to do, or in better words, is to use a second avr, connecting the preout of the first amp to the in of the second amp.

 

my question is, about how to configure the second amp, and also how to sync the volume level of the first amp with the second?

 

the second question is.

 

let's assume that i can do as they way you might explain to me. could i use the second reciever to biamp the front and center, and leave the config of the first amp on non-biamp, so i can use the 7.1 configuration using both receiver, as well, biamping, fronts and center?

 

 

my setup is the next one:

FRONTS: KLIPSCH RF82

CENTER: KLIPSCH RC64

BACK S:KLIPSCH RS52

REAR BACK S: KLIPSCH RS52

SUBWOOFER: KLIPSCH RT12D (3)

 

 

Originally Posted by coytee View Post


Listen to Knucklehead! (I've never been able to call someone a knucklehead on a forum without them taking offense until now )

To go back to the quote above... "to do this correctly" for any speaker would require gutting some/all of the passive crossover inside the speaker itself and insert an active crossover into the signal chain.

I biamp. It's a 2-channel system but that part is irrelevant.

My signal chain is various sources into a preamp. Leave the preamp into an active crossover which takes (for example) my left signal inside it and splits the signal into two different output signals. Each output signal is then connected to the input of a 2-channel power amp.

Output signal "1" is connected to "left" input and is for the low frequencies. Output signal "2" is connected to "right" input and is for the high frequencies.

My active crossover has any equalization and signal delay programmed into it.

The power amp is then connected to the speaker. "left" output to the woofer and the "right" output to the tweeter. (I'm using a 2-way speaker)

If you are going to biamp a 2-way speaker, that is the traditional (and in my opinion, 'correct') way of doing it. If you have a 3-way speaker you now have an issue of using a passive between the midrange/tweeter or going to a different active crossover and yet another amplifier in the food chain.

I'd personally look into the passive between the midrange/tweeter since for me, a true active 3-way starts to use a lot of plugs & amps.

Doesn't matter in my case since my speakers are only 2-way

All of that to be a knucklehead myself and say, simply enjoy your system as it is
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post #7 of 9 Old 02-10-2014, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRoey View Post

My receiver let's you bi-amp the front left and right (separating signal for "high" and "low" for each speaker
Are you sure? Most send the same signal to both amps.
Quote:
To do this correctly for the center, I'd need a receiver that separates the signal high/low, right?
Right, and you also need to remove the passive crossover from the speaker. So-called passive bi-amping doesn't separately amplify the highs and lows and does not eliminate the passive crossover in the speaker, so it's not worth doing.

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The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
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post #8 of 9 Old 02-10-2014, 02:55 PM
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i just want to connect with two avr receivers, in 7.1 channel , with biamp on fronts and center.

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post #9 of 9 Old 02-11-2014, 01:51 PM
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i just finished to make a test with my two denon avr3312ci and the avr2310.

 

i realize the denon avr2310 who is my second receiver has in the back panel only "EXT IN" each section identify to each speakers. i ran a normal RCA cable use for audio and video, and brought the cable from the PREOUT connector from the first receiver (3312ci), which only port or has the "PREOUT" on the rear panel, with each speaker labeled. what really catch my attention is the most recent model avr-3312ci, do not come on the rear panel with the "EXT IN" inputs. 

 

 

after connect the preout to the ext in of the second receiver, you must put the second receiver on EXT IN, using the input mode with the controller.

 

so all the low frequencies is reproducing on the main receiver. and the high and mid frequencies is reproducing on the second receiver.

 

so what i get from that.?

 

I regain the two channels that i lost due the use of biamp from the front speakers 7.1 instead of 5.1. and also i get bi-amp my center channel.

so my entire front is bi-amping , and my rear speakers working flawless.

 

one of my concerns regarding using two amps, was the issue relate to the main volume, if they reflect to the second receiver output. and definitely does.

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