Axiom M60 vs M80 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 23 Old 11-16-2011, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
SergeantB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Got the go ahead from the missus for a new theater system! Let her pick the color so she's happy. I'm trying to decide between the M60 and the M80 at Axiom. Has anyone compared them? Is there a big sound difference between the two? Room is 18x22 and we mostly watch tv, movies (hd from the cable) and listen to music occasionaly. Looking at Denon for a reciever.
SergeantB is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 23 Old 11-16-2011, 02:02 PM
GTZ
Senior Member
 
GTZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 352
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
You've got a pretty good size room there so get the 80's, you'll be glad you did. I had the same question a year ago. I never actually compared them side by side but the folks on the Axiom forum helped with my decision to go with the 80's and I'm glad I did. I also called their # and talked to Alan Lofft who was also a big help with my decision. I highly recommend the QS8's too, fantastic! I got the VP 150 center, the VP180 wouldn't fit my equipment rack. No regrets, the 150 is a great center. FYI they are being I powered by a 6 year old Pioneer Elite VSX-84TXSi. An Epic does bass duty. Have you looked at their new VP160 center? IIRC there was a thread on the Axiom forum about comparing the 60's to the 80's. You'd have to search for it. Good luck with your decision and congrats on having such an understanding wife .
GTZ is offline  
post #3 of 23 Old 11-16-2011, 03:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kini62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 2,816
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 305
The 80s are 4 ohm with (IIRCC) dips below that. Better be a beefy Denon

Gene

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Harman Kardon AVR 1600
PS3, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Qattron
Kini62 is offline  
post #4 of 23 Old 11-16-2011, 03:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
COACH2369's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 1,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 64
I had the 60's and the VP-150 for over 6 years and thought it was a great combo, until I moved into a bigger room. My current room is the same size as yours, so I would go for the M80's for sure. If you have the space I wouldn't think twice about jumping up to the VP-180. It gave me an incredible soundstage. My wife wasn't happy about the size of the center, so I decided to jump into a different type of speakers.

If I had to do it again, I wouldn't have sold the speakers and convinced my wife the setup was great... My system was only lacking a good subwoofer..

Axiom is a great company to work with and puts out a great product for the money.

Like one of the previous posters stated, they are 4 ohm speakers so watch what receiver you use with them. I originally ran them with a Denon 4810 paired with an Emotiva XPA-3.
COACH2369 is online now  
post #5 of 23 Old 11-16-2011, 04:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gtpsuper24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 90
You'll need a powerful receiver for those M80s. Go with the VP180, skip the VP150 is a horrible center channel, VP150 sounds "tinny" and too forward for me, i've had one for 3-4yrs and have decided to get rid of it.
gtpsuper24 is offline  
post #6 of 23 Old 11-17-2011, 02:25 PM
 
Solid-State's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 671
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
IMHO Ian is a really POOR loudspeaker designer... Buy a book on the topic and read about it. Placing two tweeters as he does in the M80 is a PISS POOR design totally prone to combing affects, phase issues and strange lobbing. Also that VP150 center with two tweeters on the ends is again HORRIBLE. This is like seriously... loudspeaker design 101 material. I can only explain it with Ian trying to make the speakers look badass with all the drivers in them in that brutally bad quasi array design. Acoustically and in terms of engineering the designs are HORRIBLE as in THE WORST IN THE INDUSTRY!!! SERIOUSLY take a look around for another center channel with two tweeters on the ends... or the newer center chan design with WTMMTW. You won't find it! Or a floor stander with two tweets nested like the M80 design.

YOU WILL NOT FIND ANY OTHER LOUD SPEAKERS LIKE IAN'S DESIGNS PERIOD.... TMMMT WTMMTW TTMMWW (what a joke) seriously try to find a SINGLE OTHER LOUDSPEAKER designed like that!

YOU WON'T BECAUSE IT'S SIMPLY HORRIBLE PISS POOR ENGINEERING!

These are FACTS from a guy who's honest enough to post about it...

https://www.skiingninja.com/Articles.asp?ID=173

https://www.skiingninja.com/Articles.asp?ID=174

Quote:


We would also like to note no one - not even the engineer/owner of Axiom Audio has commented or otherwise disagreed with our findings.

If your looking for internet direct loudspeakers then take a look at Ascend Acoustics. Dave, unlike Ian, actually knows how to design a loudspeaker properly.

AXIOM=HORRIBLE EAR PIERCING SOUND

Their drivers are crappy made in India drivers that are worth no more than perhaps $15 bucks a piece and the new white poly cone drivers are even CHEAPER SKUs. The crossover components are even WORSE. owhh and the cabinets... have any of you rapped you knuckles on the side of an M80!!! PATHETIC!!! I could almost use it as an instrument/drum!

In all honesty I think they are two steps away from being white van speaker salesmen in a pub parking lot only the cabs are better because if their CNC router mill. Only they do it with a smile, great service, a fancy website and community forums with astroturfing and sockpuppetry marketing!

PS I have an entire set of Epic 80 home theater in my garage I can't get rid of. I've been trying to get rid of the $4 grand set for $2k including the QS8 rear speaker stands! They are Glossy Cherry as well... They are V2 aluminum drivers not those EVEN CHEAPER white poly cone units they now use.
Solid-State is offline  
post #7 of 23 Old 11-17-2011, 03:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gtpsuper24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 90
I agree with alittle bit of that but I don't think they are "THE WORST IN THE INDUSTRY".

The Axiom M22s are fairly nice speakers and i've been some what happy with them. Although I'm 10times more happier with the Arx speaker from Audio Insider.

The Skiingninja vs Axiom is argument has been beat to death, I'd thought we'd seen that last of that. I don't know who to believe in that case, Axiom says skiingninja only wanted to sell them crossovers and when Axiom declined all this started.

Axiom has great customer service and a no questions asked return policy. The OP can order either the M80s or the M60s and decide for himself if those are right for him. Axiom speakers have received many praises from online reviews and have many many happy customers. So to the OP its your money and your ears. If you decided to purchase the Axioms and you like them thats all that matters. But IMO its also good to get other points of views, especially from current or previous owners.
gtpsuper24 is offline  
post #8 of 23 Old 11-17-2011, 03:04 PM
 
Solid-State's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 671
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

The Skiingninja vs Axiom is argument has been beat to death, I'd thought we'd seen that last of that. I don't know who to believe in that case, Axiom says skiingninja only wanted to sell them crossovers and when Axiom declined all this started.

Who to believe! Argument!?! Dude buy a book on loudspeaker design. Axiom didn't respond period to Ninja's technical points as they are ON THE MONEY ENGINEERING FACTS that are totally indisputable and there was no Skiingninja vs Axiom argument! They simply didn't respond other than fanboys (meat/socket puppets IMHO) poo poo'd the Ninja (who happens to be a rather well known engineer in DIY audio circles).

Also just look around for other loudspeakers designed like his. You simply won't find ANY because even a first time new designer knows a TMMMT or MTMMTW center is simply.... A RETARDED DESIGN ACOUSTICALLY PERIOD
Solid-State is offline  
post #9 of 23 Old 11-17-2011, 03:07 PM
 
Solid-State's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 671
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

Axiom has great customer service and a no questions asked return policy. The OP can order either the M80s or the M60s and decide for himself if those are right for him. Axiom speakers have received many praises from online reviews and have many many happy customers. So to the OP its your money and your ears. If you decided to purchase the Axioms and you like them thats all that matters. But IMO its also good to get other points of views, especially from current or previous owners.

And the OP can also PAY THROUGH THE ASS for return shipping!!! As in hundreds of dollars to return them! We are talking $200-300 bucks to ship them back.

Also I'd seriously question audio magazines and review sites as most simply get PAID to write positive reviews or it's unspoken that if they give a bad review they will not ever again receive gear for review. If the same review site does reviews on cabling including expensive power cords... they are FRAUDSTERS and I wouldn't believe a thing they say period. The truth is it's a very dishonest industry ripe with BS scams and gear sold in almost a fraudulent way IMHO.

BUYER BEWARE!
Solid-State is offline  
post #10 of 23 Old 11-17-2011, 03:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
COACH2369's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 1,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 64
Yikes... All this guy wanted was some advice between the two models. If you don't like the speakers, then don't buy them...

Plenty more to choose from out there... No need to bash somebody, if you ask me.
COACH2369 is online now  
post #11 of 23 Old 11-17-2011, 05:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gtpsuper24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Yeah theres no need to become so hostile. This is a discussion forum, no need to go on a rant about how bad something is. It doesn't help anyone and just causes nothing but problems.

I remember reading some of your older posts and you seemed more than happy with Axioms. Its too bad that after awhile of owning them they just didn't workout. I've had my Axioms since 2007/2008 and I too because tired of them or just caught a case of upgraditis.
gtpsuper24 is offline  
post #12 of 23 Old 11-17-2011, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
SergeantB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for backing up what my gut was telling me GTZ and COACH2369. gtpsuper24 I had been thinking the VP180 so thanks for that advice. I was worried I would regret not getting the biggest speakers so thanks for confirming that. Going to go ahead and place the order for the walnut (matches our living room the wife says) and get a Denon reciever to go with them like Gene said. Just deciding which one. No idea who skingninja is but if they're good enough for sound&vision, they're good enough for me. Can't wait for my first real home theater.
SergeantB is offline  
post #13 of 23 Old 11-18-2011, 02:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
COACH2369's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 1,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantB View Post

Thanks for backing up what my gut was telling me GTZ and COACH2369. gtpsuper24 I had been thinking the VP180 so thanks for that advice. I was worried I would regret not getting the biggest speakers so thanks for confirming that. Going to go ahead and place the order for the walnut (matches our living room the wife says) and get a Denon reciever to go with them like Gene said. Just deciding which one. No idea who skingninja is but if they're good enough for sound&vision, they're good enough for me. Can't wait for my first real home theater.

Good luck! I think you will be happy with your choice.

What is your budget on a receiver?

Thanks..
COACH2369 is online now  
post #14 of 23 Old 11-18-2011, 05:08 AM
GTZ
Senior Member
 
GTZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 352
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantB View Post

Thanks for backing up what my gut was telling me GTZ and COACH2369. gtpsuper24 I had been thinking the VP180 so thanks for that advice. I was worried I would regret not getting the biggest speakers so thanks for confirming that. Going to go ahead and place the order for the walnut (matches our living room the wife says) and get a Denon reciever to go with them like Gene said. Just deciding which one. No idea who skingninja is but if they're good enough for sound&vision, they're good enough for me. Can't wait for my first real home theater.

Congrats on your decision, you won't be dissapointed. The walnut looks cool!
Have you been over the the Axiom board? Lots of good info and support over there.
GTZ is offline  
post #15 of 23 Old 11-18-2011, 07:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Billy p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Markham,Ont
Posts: 1,229
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTZ View Post

Congrats on your decision, you won't be dissapointed. The walnut looks cool!
Have you been over the the Axiom board? Lots of good info and support over there.

So long as you don't stir the pot and ask too many questions...

Old Indian proverb: We don't inherit the earth from our ancestors, but we borrow it from our children!

Ascend Acoustics Towers,STC(RAAL) & 200 SE in espresso54" of Panny BlissAnthem MRX 300,Sony BDP-S380, Technics CD player & Apple TV....

{ PSA XS30 SE in Cordovan Cherry}
Billy p is offline  
post #16 of 23 Old 11-18-2011, 10:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gtpsuper24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy p View Post

So long as you don't stir the pot and ask too many questions...

Axiom is no different than any other brands forum. Do you think that if you went to Emotiva, eD, HSU, or Ascend and and "stir the pot" that you won't get a negative reaction?

Yes it does suck that you can't have a conversation about the short comings of a particular speaker or sub on that brands forum. But you have to be careful not to come off as "just trolling".
gtpsuper24 is offline  
post #17 of 23 Old 11-18-2011, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
SergeantB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I was looking at the Denon AVR 2112CI which was recommended on another thread for 4 ohm speakers, but I'm not sure about putting that with the M80's. Ideally I'd like to spend under $900 if possible. I ordered the system with 5 channels for now, but I want a reciever that can do 7 channels just in case I get the moolah to upgrade next year. Kini62 suggested HK3600 on the other thread as well. Its a good time to be looking I think.
SergeantB is offline  
post #18 of 23 Old 11-18-2011, 02:12 PM
Advanced Member
 
blackzarg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 748
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantB View Post

I was looking at the Denon AVR 2112CI which was recommended on another thread for 4 ohm speakers, but I'm not sure about putting that with the M80's. Ideally I'd like to spend under $900 if possible. I ordered the system with 5 channels for now, but I want a reciever that can do 7 channels just in case I get the moolah to upgrade next year. Kini62 suggested HK3600 on the other thread as well. Its a good time to be looking I think.

If possible I'd got for a better receiver. If you don't mind going refurbished, you can get a Denon 3312ci under that budget at Accessories4Less. Definitely a step up. If you can go $100 over your budget the Onkyo 3008 will definitely provide ample power and features.

I've always had iffy luck with Harman Kardon receivers. I think the hardware is great, powerful, and beautiful, but they are really lacking in the software side and require constant resets.

Hope that helps!
blackzarg is offline  
post #19 of 23 Old 11-18-2011, 02:41 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
afrogt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 22,773
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked: 351
All I suggest is to get something with preamp outputs in case you need to add an amp later.

Amazon and Vanns have a deal on the Onkyo NR809 right now.
http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-NR809...1655964&sr=1-1

Afro GT
afrogt is offline  
post #20 of 23 Old 01-22-2014, 12:24 PM
Member
 
OpenMindAudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid-State View Post
 

YOU WILL NOT FIND ANY OTHER LOUD SPEAKERS LIKE IAN'S DESIGNS PERIOD.... TMMMT WTMMTW TTMMWW (what a joke) seriously try to find a SINGLE OTHER LOUDSPEAKER designed like that!

 

Actually, the highly lauded Bryston Model T shares the general design approach of the Axiom m80 -- and in fact Bryston makes no bones about the fact that they teamed up with Axiom on the design.

 

http://bryston.com/products/speakers/Model_T_Signature.html

 

SoundStage has posted excellent NRC measurements of the Model T (and you can find some excellent reviews on the Internets):

 

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=988:nrc-measurements-bryston-model-t-loudspeakers&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153

 

SoundStage also has archived 5 or 6 complete anechoic measurements of diffent Axiom speakers over the years, as anyone can see here:

 

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16&Itemid=140

 

The measurements are basically very solid - certainly in line with the other audiophile speakers listed on the archive page. And the measurements don't lie. As with any speaker one can conjecture from the measurements about various design trade-offs and compromises, but overall those charts are a) not bad at all, and some are very good, and b) awfully good for the price range of the speakers. Only a few speaker companies, such as Aperion and Ascend Acoustics, have produced lines of mid-priced speakers (300 for bookshelves, 1000 or less for floor standers) that measure so well. Combine that with overall positive reviews, good performance in blind listening tests, and appreciation from owners, and it's hard to fathom where you're coming from, Solid-State, except that you clearly have an axe to grind. No one's asking you to love the speakers, but you're blind rage against them is over the top.

 

As someone who has built my own speakers, I am always surprised by the Axiom two-tweeter design on the m80, but then again, with my limited, hobbyist's knowledge, I  also would never have invented the Orion, or the Gallo specialty lines, or a dipole, or any number of innovations. I only know a little bit, and as they say, a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. It really comes down to listening tests, and except for the oft-maligned VP 150 center channel (which I've never heard, only read about), the Axiom speakers do anywhere from fine to very well in listening tests, and some of them do extremely well for the price.

 

Bottom line: If the design of the m80s is so bad, why would a successful and esteemed company like Bryston launch a new, high-end speaker around the same design concept? And if the design is so flawed, how is the Bryston-Axiom design fooling so many great reviewers? And was Lee Harvey Oswald ever spotted in the same room at the same time with Ian Colquon of Axiom?

 

FWIW I have owned Energy, Ascend Acoustics (which I love), Axiom (m60s, m3s, and qs8s), Paradigm, Monitor Audio, B&W, and several sets of DIY bookshelves and MTMs made from kits. My Axiom m60s are the best overall speaker I've owned for creating a soundstage and handling home theater. I prefer my Ascend bookshelves and one of the kits based on a Zaph Audio design for critical musical listening close up. But certainly the Axioms m60s are great at music too. This insane jihad against them seems really weird, if you ask me, even suspicious.


"These go to eleven."
OpenMindAudio is offline  
post #21 of 23 Old 01-22-2014, 02:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gtpsuper24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Yeah you just bumped a thread from over 2yrs ago.
gtpsuper24 is offline  
post #22 of 23 Old 01-22-2014, 02:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mark62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: N.W. Pa.
Posts: 1,409
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 86
Cadaver!
mark62 is offline  
post #23 of 23 Old 01-22-2014, 02:27 PM
Senior Member
 
ex-labdriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 23
OpenMind:

It would have been nice if this sleeping dog had been left alone to continue its nap for another decade or so...

TAM
ex-labdriver is offline  
Reply Speakers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off