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post #1 of 25 Old 11-22-2011, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm thinking of selling my Def Tech spkr pkg and starting with two Magnepan 1.7's. TV is wall mounted and is about 13 feet from the listening area. What do you think the very minimum distance from the rear wall is going to need to be for the Maggies? I'd like to go only about one foot due to the med sized room. What do you think?

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post #2 of 25 Old 11-23-2011, 03:32 AM
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I'm assuming you mean the front wall with the TV not the rear wall where you sit If you mean the rear wall, you can place your seats right next the wall. But if you mean how far away from the front wall with the TV on it.....

As a very long time Maggie owner, 1 ft is not nearly enough. You really need to look at about 3 ft min. This is true for any maggie, not just the 1.7 model.

The ideal distance depends on the room dimensions, but unless you can get the speakers off the front wall, the reflected wave will interfere more with the front wave & certain frequencies will be cancelled while others are reinforced. The frequencies that will most be reduced will be in the bass region. This happens regardless of distance but is especially true with very short distances.

Candidly, if your DefTechs are bipolar and you only have them 1 ft away, their sound is not close to optimal either. If they are bipoles, just try moving them out 3 ft into the room and see if they sound smoother, better bass & imaging. Unless designed for wall mount, ALL speakers benefit from being placed off the wall.

My 3.6's are a bit over 4 ft off the front wall, and Cardas rules for my room dimensions puts the ideal distance at a tad over 5 ft.

You could go with < 1ft, but then ideally, you would look at placing diffusers, absorption panels & bass traps on the wall to help deflect the rear wave interference.

I'm not saying you shouldn't go with the 1.7's, they (and all Magnepans) are excellent speakers, capable of uncanny imaging and presence. But you will not be getting what they are capable of. Any Magnepan dealer will tell you the same thing. Magnepan themselves say start with ~3 ft. and move them backwards & forwards 6 inches at a time until you hear the best bass.

For esthetics & WAF, you could put them next to the wall then move them out for listening/viewing. But IMO, that will quickly get tiresome. If you're worried about the sound coming not from the same plane as the TV, I've found the extra distance doesn't matter. And it will make a world of difference for serious music listening.

Steve
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post #3 of 25 Old 11-23-2011, 04:40 AM
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What is going to be your primary use? If it is HT then just be aware that their use for HT is limited. They aren't very efficient and it will take a whole bunch of power to get them to cooperate. There are much better choices out there for HT. Now if I was putting together a two channel setup, Maggies would be near the top of the list for me. I absolutely love them for music! The above poster is correct. You need a lot of room for them to breathe. Maggies are very finicky about placement.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #4 of 25 Old 11-23-2011, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the response. The only thing that I have going for me regarding room size/placement, is that I will be placing the front spkrs on the long wall (out of necessity), so I will be avoiding, (somewhat) the side wall reflections. The room is about twenty feet by fourteen feet. I really want to try the 1.7's...I don't see much in that price range. Room is carpeted and rather large sofa/sectional is placed on the rear wall.

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post #5 of 25 Old 11-23-2011, 07:58 AM
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Placing any dipole near the wall behind will introduce lots of reflections and comb filter effects unless the wall is well-damped. My old Maggies are about 18" from the wall but the wall is exceedingly well damped. Imaging is supurb, but you do give up some of the sense of "spaciousness". A worthwhile trade to me; I prefer to get the sound field from the recording, not the room.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #6 of 25 Old 11-23-2011, 08:16 AM
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Your room dimensions are quite similar to mine. And I have the larger 3.6's on the short wall. With planars, you don't have to be as concerned about side wall reflections. Several feet is OK, but more is obviously better.

As far as power, yes they aren't as efficient as your DT's, but with a robust receiver amps with true power in the 120+ watt @ 8 ohm and capable of 4 ohms, even if the mfg doesn't say it specifically, the smaller Maggies are definitely doable. I used the old MG-1's with 60 watts for many years, and 1.6's with the older Pioneer flagships 49 & 59txi receivers. Going to 3.6's, an ext amp is definitely recommended.

If you have a budget receiver, like $250-500, then Maggies are not the way to go. If you have a good upper end receiver, say Denon 4311, maybe even 3311, Pioneer SC55/57 or similar from Onkyo, the 1.7's will be doable. The amps have to be good enough to drive 4 ohms. I know from personal experience Pioneer's SC models can do the job. And I agree with the other poster, more power is still better with Maggies.

And get a sub, even the 1.7's, rated at 40 hz, won't get you into the 20 hz range where explosions, etc will have the most impact.

You might want to seriously consider a short wall setup. Plenty of room to bring the speakers out and plenty of room for a 7.1 rear speaker setup. The side walls will be in the null zone with the speakers slightly toed in, so even if you have them 2 ft off the side, it won't significantly degrade the imaging with a bunch of reflected sound. I wouldn't say that with a std speakers, but planars have more of a figure 8 sound pattern, so not as critical on the sides. And if you want, you can always hang an acoustic wall panel on the sides at 1st reflection points.

In their price range, 1.7's are a true bargain in audio. So I understand why you're interested. Make sure you have decent amplification, a subwoofer, and a bit of effort on placement, you can make it work in your room. Long wall will also work very well and may be ideal, as long as you bring them off the front wall several ft. Like DonH50 says, you could get by at 1 ft but don't count on optimum imaging and you'll want bass traps, maybe diffusing/absorbing panels on the wall to minimize comb filtering. You'll be a lot happier & a lot less effort bringing them out 3 ft or more

Will your dealer let you take do an in-house evaluation with a floor model? Even if it's the older 1.6's, that will give you an excellent opportunity to see if they are the right speaker for you. there is not that much difference between the 1.6 & 1.7 that you wouldn't get a real good idea on how they'd sound.

Steve
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post #7 of 25 Old 11-23-2011, 08:18 AM
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I have some MG II's placed about a foot from the wall. They sound awesome. I used to have them pulled out 3', but my wife complained and I pushed them up against the wall and I don't notice much of a sound difference. I have them against a long stretch away from corners.
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post #8 of 25 Old 11-23-2011, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Your room dimensions are quite similar to mine. And I have the larger 3.6's on the short wall. With planars, you don't have to be as concerned about side wall reflections. Several feet is OK, but more is obviously better.

As far as power, yes they aren't as efficient as your DT's, but with a robust receiver amps with true power in the 120+ watt @ 8 ohm and capable of 4 ohms, even if the mfg doesn't say it specifically, the smaller Maggies are definitely doable. I used the old MG-1's with 60 watts for many years, and 1.6's with the older Pioneer flagships 49 & 59txi receivers. Going to 3.6's, an ext amp is definitely recommended.

If you have a budget receiver, like $250-500, then Maggies are not the way to go. If you have a good upper end receiver, say Denon 4311, maybe even 3311, Pioneer SC55/57 or similar from Onkyo, the 1.7's will be doable. The amps have to be good enough to drive 4 ohms. I know from personal experience Pioneer's SC models can do the job. And I agree with the other poster, more power is still better with Maggies.

And get a sub, even the 1.7's, rated at 40 hz, won't get you into the 20 hz range where explosions, etc will have the most impact.

You might want to seriously consider a short wall setup. Plenty of room to bring the speakers out and plenty of room for a 7.1 rear speaker setup. The side walls will be in the null zone with the speakers slightly toed in, so even if you have them 2 ft off the side, it won't significantly degrade the imaging with a bunch of reflected sound. I wouldn't say that with a std speakers, but planars have more of a figure 8 sound pattern, so not as critical on the sides. And if you want, you can always hang an acoustic wall panel on the sides at 1st reflection points.

In their price range, 1.7's are a true bargain in audio. So I understand why you're interested. Make sure you have decent amplification, a subwoofer, and a bit of effort on placement, you can make it work in your room. Long wall will also work very well and may be ideal, as long as you bring them off the front wall several ft. Like DonH50 says, you could get by at 1 ft but don't count on optimum imaging and you'll want bass traps, maybe diffusing/absorbing panels on the wall to minimize comb filtering. You'll be a lot happier & a lot less effort bringing them out 3 ft or more

Will your dealer let you take do an in-house evaluation with a floor model? Even if it's the older 1.6's, that will give you an excellent opportunity to see if they are the right speaker for you. there is not that much difference between the 1.6 & 1.7 that you wouldn't get a real good idea on how they'd sound.

I'm stuck with the spkrs on the long wall (WAF) LOL

I use a separate Power Amp capable of 250 watts RMS x5 channels into 4 ohms, so I should be good. I can perhaps make some final speaker location marks with tape, and move them back out of the way when not in use...not ideal

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post #9 of 25 Old 11-23-2011, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Espo77 View Post

I'm stuck with the spkrs on the long wall (WAF) LOL

I use a separate Power Amp capable of 250 watts RMS x5 channels into 4 ohms, so I should be good. I can perhaps make some final speaker location marks with tape, and move them back out of the way when not in use...not ideal

With that amp, you're good
I'd give it a shot if I were you, nothing ventured...

Steve
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post #10 of 25 Old 03-05-2013, 08:47 PM
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Hi everyone out there

I'm a new owner of Magnepan 1.7, and I'm using a Vincent 236 (the old type, not the mkII) to drive them.
I've never tested them with another amplifier, so I'm woundering/asking for advice if there are someone out there who have compared the Vincent 236 with other amplifiers on Magnepan 1.7?
And what experience you have had?
Maybe some recomandations who would give noticeable quality upgrade in the sound?
I've read a little about what goes well with the MP 1.7, but I will not put any constraints,
but would rather hear the common man impressions and experiences about what is worth
to run around and listen to, or rug home for testing (I have no car).
I find it difficult to make up one's mind when all the magazines and oneline reviewers brags
abot everything and all brand/products equally.
I understand of course that i have to listen on my own, but was hoping to be able to narrow
it down to some fewer amplifiers.
I want to thank so much in advance to those who can bear to give me some tips, and of course very happy for every possible input.

Best regards John from Norway
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post #11 of 25 Old 03-06-2013, 05:54 AM
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The hybrid integrated amp? I have never heard it but it sounds like an excellent match. I drove my old Magnepans with a Counterpoint SA220 for a long time, a somewhat similar (hybrid) amp. I would expect your Vincent to have comparable or maybe even a little better bass due to its lower output impedance (I think).

While tubes make the Maggies sound sweet, I always felt they needed a good SS amp for the bottom end. The Vincent line provides the best of both worlds.

I would put the money into new music...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #12 of 25 Old 03-08-2013, 02:15 AM
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Hi
Donh

Thank you for a plesant and uplifting response , I take it in acount and tries to calm down the upgrade ghost :- ) Best regards John
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post #13 of 25 Old 03-08-2013, 03:06 AM
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I had Magnepans for years (1.6's) and you need room behind them to allow them to breath. Small changes can make a huge difference, much, much more so than with a sealed box speaker. I would say that you need 3ft at minimum and preferably you should have 6ft. (yes, not joking... I had my speakers almost equal distance from back wall as it was to listening position and that was just glorious, albeit not the most appreciate by the wife)

"Suddenly the thought struck me, my floor is someone elses ceiling" - Nils Ferlin
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post #14 of 25 Old 03-08-2013, 04:24 AM
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Same as I've set it up. So the only remains now is to find the perfect amplifier - a mach in heaven that in my ears reproduces voices and instruments wihtout flaws.
MG 1.7 reproduces all music so incredibly detailed and I get so frustrated with electronics and studio admission.
Can it be so freaking hard for the prices they demand to make the sound of voices and instruments sound right/live in the living room, we have ****ing been on the moon and count 2013.
Has been recommend brands as Karan, W4S sti-500, various Audio Research, various Parasound, Bladelius, McIntoch, Pathos, Belles, Chapter, Adyton, CJ,
Musical Fidelity, Bryston.
It's impossible for me to drag all this back to my home to test and listen when i do not have a car and are disabled.

PLEASE HELP ME :-)

Best regards John
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post #15 of 25 Old 03-08-2013, 05:48 AM
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Magnepan uses/used Bryston amps a lot in their setups at trade shows/expos at one point, but I'm not sure if that's still the case.

Personally, with my 1.7s, after room treatment, the source/DAC makes more of a difference than my amp. I've been perfectly happy with my emotiva xpa-2 power amp. I generally control everything via usb audio into a DAC/digital preamp from my macbook pro. Even the tiny dragonfly usb DAC, with volume contolled directly in my playback software, made more of a difference than using a different amp.

Granted, I'm talking about amps that have the power to drive these guys. An underpowered amp will obviously be less than satisfying.

Before you go and start swapping equipment, treat your room. Bass traps, absorption panels, measuring to be sure they're equally spaced, ensuring you're not sitting in any resonating hot spots...you can improve your sound dramatically with a little bit of work and a lot less money than a new power amp.

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post #16 of 25 Old 03-08-2013, 05:54 AM
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Also, regarding room placement, dipole speakers really should have acoustic paneling on the wall behind the speakers. Mine are only 3-4 feet off the wall, but the sound is wonderful. Aside from missing the chest-pounding thump from a kickdrum, it sounds as if the musician is playing my own personal concert. Treating my room and proper placement got my 90% there. The last 10% came from source/dac

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post #17 of 25 Old 03-08-2013, 05:56 AM
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Definitely treat your room. That will have the biggest impact by far. As far as amps and cables go, as long as you don't get a super cheapie amp then you'll be just fine. Same with cables. Exotic high priced amps and cables are just snake oil. Emotiva makes a fine amp at a great price as well as blue jean cables or some of the least expensive Audioquest. Don't listen to the guys that say your amp and cables have to be ultra-expensive. It's been proven time and time again that it makes zero audible difference.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #18 of 25 Old 03-08-2013, 06:11 AM
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I echo the snake oil comment. I've done a ton blind comparisons, and I've yet to find someone that could consistently tell me when I've changed something from a cheap cable to a $3500 cable, or. $1000 amp to a $10,000 amp (assuming similar specifications). A lot of times I'll act like I'm changing something, but leave everything the same. It's amazing to see how many people tell me it sounds better or worse...when it's the same...exactly the same. That's generally the time they start hating me, haha.

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post #19 of 25 Old 03-08-2013, 06:40 AM
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Quit reading about electronics and start adjusting the placement of your Maggies. A few inches any direction and a slight change in toe-in will have a much bigger impact than any electronics upgrade for you. Dipoles are very sensitive to room placement, especially in untreatedrooms. You will be surprised how much difference can be made with a little tweaking in speaker position.

If you must spend money, I agree with all those saying spend it on room treatments. Go to www.realtraps.com, do some reading, and send an email to Ethan with a drawing of your room to get some advice for some products that will make a difference.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #20 of 25 Old 06-13-2013, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Quit reading about electronics and start adjusting the placement of your Maggies. A few inches any direction and a slight change in toe-in will have a much bigger impact than any electronics upgrade for you. Dipoles are very sensitive to room placement, especially in untreatedrooms. You will be surprised how much difference can be made with a little tweaking in speaker position.

If you must spend money, I agree with all those saying spend it on room treatments. Go to www.realtraps.com, do some reading, and send an email to Ethan with a drawing of your room to get some advice for some products that will make a difference.

This is day two with the 1.7's and QSC PLX 3002. OMG!!! on well recorded discs amazing. I was concerned about some of the things that were mentioned about these maggies since they have more resolution than the mg12's. Panel slap I haven't experienced yet, too damn loud. Sandiness or grain, I have put to a placement issue. increasing the toe-in solved that. Mind you it wasn't on all recordings. lack of kick drum impact, bs. you hear and feel everything with these. I suspect any reported loss of dynamics at higher volumes is exposing weakness in amplification.

I did have a question and I cant remember the answer. The 1.7's have an impedance drop in the higher frequencies, with my amp that means when it dips to 2 ohms there will be up to 1500 watts with2 db headroom available. will this increase in available power correspond to an increase in spl at higher frequecies? if so, then it makes sense to me to install the resistors supplied with the speakers. doesn't it to maintain a flatish response?
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post #21 of 25 Old 06-13-2013, 09:29 PM
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applying a constant voltage will give you the frequency response.

the impedance swings all over the place in a speaker and as a result the actual power does too.

think about it as the speaker gets more and less efficent at different frequencies so draws different amounts of power for a given lou dness, not that the speaker will get louder and softer depending on the impedance swings.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #22 of 25 Old 06-13-2013, 10:23 PM
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Magnepans have nearly flat and almost purely resistive impedance across the band, unlike many conventional speakers. The impedance drop at HF is due to the reduced wire length in the tweeter section, and/or the ribbon tweeter in the upper models. The response remains essentially flat as long as the amplifier can supply the extra power at HF. Only add the resistors if you feel it sounds too bright.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #23 of 25 Old 10-28-2013, 08:01 AM
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Hello all Maggie Owners

I am looking to buy the Magnepan 1.7 as front channels for HT and the MMG for surround my room is quite small 12 x 11 x 9 I will also probably buy their center channel and bass module!

Question do you think that the room is too small for these speakers?

Second will the Integra DTA-70.1 THX Ultra2 9-Channel Power Amplifier will be able to handle the Mags? http://www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?m=DTA-70.1&class=Amplifier&p=s

Third how many acoustic panel will I need to tame the sound so it doesn't become muddy!
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post #24 of 25 Old 10-28-2013, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Hello all Maggie Owners

I am looking to buy the Magnepan 1.7 as front channels for HT and the MMG for surround my room is quite small 12 x 11 x 9 I will also probably buy their center channel and bass module!

I'd probably put a good sub on the list, before the Magnepan bass module. I use Rythmik but there are many good choices.
Quote:
Question do you think that the room is too small for these speakers?

Depends on if you've the floor space. That is pretty small. No matter the speaker you may find bass modes are an issue.
Quote:
Second will the Integra DTA-70.1 THX Ultra2 9-Channel Power Amplifier will be able to handle the Mags? http://www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?m=DTA-70.1&class=Amplifier&p=s

That will work just fine.
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Third how many acoustic panel will I need to tame the sound so it doesn't become muddy!

Depends on what you hear as "muddy". In a small room, dipoles (Magnepans, electrostats, etc.) IME sound better with the rear wave dampened since there is not room to get them well out from the wall. Magnepan's tend to radiate more like line sources at midrange and up, so reflections from the side walls, ceiling, and floor matter less since the speakers put out most of their energy straight ahead. I would probably start with a couple of panels behind each speaker, and another pair on the wall behind the listening position if it is close to the rear wall (which it probably is due to room size). Ethan's site at www.realtraps.com has a plethora of tutorials on room treatment.

HTH, FWIWFM, IMO, etc. - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #25 of 25 Old 11-05-2013, 09:38 PM
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Too bad I can't buy Magnepan 1.7 direct, I would have upgraded the MMG oh well!

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