Selecting a Receiver & Sub for an Energy RC-10 Setup - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 41 Old 12-03-2011, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm about to pull the trigger on a surround sound setup, but I need to choose a subwoofer and receiver first. Here is what I have so far:

Edit: This is what we came up with. It has been purchased!

2 x Energy RC-10 Bookshelf Speakers ($300 for the pair, Vanns via Amazon)
1 x Energy RC-LCR Centre Speaker ($350, Vanns via Amazon)
1 x Denon AVR-1612 A/V Receiver ($300, ABT Electronics via Amazon)
1 x HSU VTF-1 ($444, HSU Research direct)

50' 16GA Wire ($8, Mediabridge via Amazon)
15' Subwoofer Cable ($10, Mediabridge via Amazon)
15' HDMI Cable ($14, Mediabridge via Amazon)

Total: 1426 USD, give or take for PU fees and conversion rates.

I will upgrade to a 5.1 system later (with 1 Energy RC-LCR and another pair or Energy RC-10s).

I've selected the RC-10s since they have been recommended on these forums many times. The centre speaker, therefore, also seemed like a good choice. Also, the series seems to be on a sort of clearance sale. Let me know if I'm making a mistake...

For the receiver, I will be outputting sound from my PC via HDMI (I can use other outputs if recommended), but I will not be using the receiver for any video processing whatsoever. I would say my usage is around 60% music (range of genres), 30% movies and TV, and 30% games.

As for the subwoofer, I would like something comparable to the quality of the RC-10s. I listen to some electronic music so bass is a must.

Thanks for reading. I'm not experience with audio hardware so any help is appreciated! Don't be afraid to let me know if I'm doing something stupid.
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post #2 of 41 Old 12-03-2011, 05:57 PM
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No video @ all. Why not just get a decent amp then, I see no need for a receiver. HSU is a very good ID company, (check out their website) you can't go wrong with just about any sub from them.

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post #3 of 41 Old 12-03-2011, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by scoobydenon View Post

No video @ all. Why not just get a decent amp then, I see no need for a receiver.

Are there amps available that process surround sound codecs? Say, for example, I wanted to push Dolby Surround to my amplifier, could it decode it?

If there are amps like this available (I haven't been able to find any) then they would be perfect!
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post #4 of 41 Old 12-03-2011, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I've done some research on HSU subwoofers. I will probably go with one of their units since I've read nothing but positive reviews. I have emailed HSU to see which unit they would recommend (I was thinking a STF-2 for my 900 ft^3 room, because I like bass ).

It's kind of weird that I'm choosing everything based on reviews, but I live in a rural area in Canada so I don't have much of a choice (only audio places are BestBuy, etc., and they only carry Bose).

Anyways, I just need to choose a receiver/amplifier now.
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post #5 of 41 Old 12-03-2011, 09:16 PM
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The HSU STF-2 is a fine choice for the subwoofer. What's your budget for the receiver?

Some low to mid-range options that might work for you:

Denon 1712-no networking or video card
Denon 2112-no video card, includes networking and usb port
Yamaha 671-video upscaling, networking, USB port
Pioneer 1021-networking, USB port

"Guns for show, knives for a pro..."
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post #6 of 41 Old 12-03-2011, 09:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by postrokfan View Post

The HSU STF-2 is a fine choice for the subwoofer. What's your budget for the receiver?

Some low to mid-range options that might work for you:

Denon 1712-no networking or video card
Denon 2112-no video card, includes networking and usb port
Yamaha 671-video upscaling, networking, USB port
Pioneer 1021-networking, USB port

For the receiver, I don't need any fancy features such as AirPlay, Bluetooth, or even iPod support. I just want a receiver that will support my speakers nicely. Ideally I would like to keep the cost below $400.

I had a look at your suggestions and the Denon 1712 caught my eye. I did some research and found that it has a little brother, the Denon 1612, which is only $299 with support for a 5.1 system. Would this receiver be a good choice since I'm only planning on a 5.1 system, or does the 1712 have significant advantages other than 7.1 support?

Thanks!
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post #7 of 41 Old 12-03-2011, 10:06 PM
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I'm also researching at the moment, looking to replace my ailing old HK surround receiver for a PC 2.1 setup. In addition to Denon (I have a Denon; good stuff), check out the Yamaha RX-A700. It's apparently the equivalent of the RX-V67, but maybe a little better build quality.

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post #8 of 41 Old 12-03-2011, 10:08 PM
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Great choice on the RC-10's if I must say. They sure are some sweet sounding speakers. They also look nice as well. The Kevlar woofers give them that nice industrial look.
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post #9 of 41 Old 12-03-2011, 10:13 PM
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OP, did you mind telling where you found RC-10 and LCR in Canada or did you already have them?

My review comparisons of Energy RC-70s to Veritas V6.3 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post21199418
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post #10 of 41 Old 12-03-2011, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I'm also researching at the moment, looking to replace my ailing old HK surround receiver for a PC 2.1 setup. In addition to Denon (I have a Denon; good stuff), check out the Yamaha RX-A700. It's apparently the equivalent of the RX-V67, but maybe a little better build quality.

Thanks for the input! I'll definitely consider it.

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Originally Posted by ObsceneJesster View Post

Great choice on the RC-10's if I must say. They sure are some sweet sounding speakers. They also look nice as well. The Kevlar woofers give them that nice industrial look.

Yes, I'm feeling more confident about my choice as time goes on.
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post #11 of 41 Old 12-03-2011, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CalgaryCowboy View Post

OP, did you mind telling where you found RC-10 and LCR in Canada or did you already have them?

What I'm going to do is purchase everything from the US and have it sent to a border shipping/receiving company (Letterlock, specifically). Then, since I only live a few minutes from the border, I can cross and pick up my parcels for only $5 each.

I would purchase in Canada if they were offered here...
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post #12 of 41 Old 12-03-2011, 10:29 PM
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Too bad you didn't post this 3 days ago. NewEgg had the Yamaha RX-V867 on sale for $399 which is one hell of a price. You can't find it less than $500 at any other authorized dealer. For $399, I don't think your going to get a better receiver with that many features. NewEgg is showing them out of stock right now but if for some reason I see them back in stock in the near future, I'll let you know.
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post #13 of 41 Old 12-03-2011, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterMic View Post

What I'm going to do is purchase everything from the US and have it sent to a border shipping/receiving company (Letterlock, specifically). Then, since I only live a few minutes from the border, I can cross and pick up my parcels for only $5 each.

I would purchase in Canada if they were offered here...

I don't know if you have room for towers but if so check out the RC-70s bundle from Vanns.com. 2 RC-70s, 2 RC-10s, RC-LCR, and the new VSW10 sub (the one listed on future shop for $1000) all for $1600. But be aware that if by from the states the warranty is void up here. I emailed energy when thinking of doing something similar.

My review comparisons of Energy RC-70s to Veritas V6.3 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post21199418
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post #14 of 41 Old 12-03-2011, 10:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsceneJesster View Post

Too bad you didn't post this 3 days ago. NewEgg had the Yamaha RX-V867 on sale for $399 which is one hell of a price. You can't find it less than $500 at any other authorized dealer. For $399, I don't think your going to get a better receiver with that many features. NewEgg is showing them out of stock right now but if for some reason I see them back in stock in the near future, I'll let you know.

That would have been awesome. Thanks for letting me know; I'll be sure to keep a close eye on newegg for the next few days...
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post #15 of 41 Old 12-03-2011, 10:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CalgaryCowboy View Post

I don't know if you have room for towers but if so check out the RC-70s bundle from Vanns.com. 2 RC-70s, 2 RC-10s, RC-LCR, and the new VSW10 sub (the one listed on future shop for $1000) all for $1600. But be aware that if by from the states the warranty is void up here. I emailed energy when thinking of doing something similar.

Unfortunately I do not have room for towers (desk is in the way). Thanks for letting me know about the warranty. I guess they really want you to buy their "Canadian" line .
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post #16 of 41 Old 12-03-2011, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsceneJesster View Post

Too bad you didn't post this 3 days ago. NewEgg had the Yamaha RX-V867 on sale for $399 which is one hell of a price. You can't find it less than $500 at any other authorized dealer. For $399, I don't think your going to get a better receiver with that many features. NewEgg is showing them out of stock right now but if for some reason I see them back in stock in the near future, I'll let you know.

The A700 and the V867 are an interesting pair. When I compared the specs of the V867 to the A700, they were virtually identical except for the power rating. The V867 is 95w at .09%THD , whereas the A700 is 90w at .08% THD. Meanwhile, the A700 has slightly more dynamic headroom. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same amp, just spec'd differently. Might be the additional features that make for the different model number of the V867 over the A700/V667.

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post #17 of 41 Old 12-04-2011, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


The A700 and the V867 are an interesting pair. When I compared the specs of the V867 to the A700, they were virtually identical except for the power rating. The V867 is 95w at .09%THD , whereas the A700 is 90w at .08% THD. Meanwhile, the A700 has slightly more dynamic headroom. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same amp, just spec'd differently. Might be the additional features that make for the different model number of the V867 over the A700/V667.

The A800 is identical spec wise to the 867 although it still doesn't have network capabilities like the 867. I believe the 800 series also have 2 HDMI outputs where the 700 only has one. You wont get network capabilities with the Aventage line until you dip a dime on the A1000 which also gives you better video processing. In the end, if I had my choice between the a700 and the 867 for the same price, I would have to go with the 867 due to it having a couple minor features and one major feature (networking) over the a700. I think I would even choose the 867 over the a800 since that isn't even network enabled. I love having access to my entire music collection which is sitting on my NAS (450gigs). I can either scroll through all of my albums or I can create playlists. Its pretty cool. I highly recommend to anyone who hasn't purchased a network capable receiver to ask Santa for one.

Also, anyone with a A700, could you tell me if it had the new multi point YPAO.
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post #18 of 41 Old 12-04-2011, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ObsceneJesster View Post

The A800 is identical spec wise to the 867 although it still doesn't have network capabilities like the 867. I believe the 800 series also have 2 HDMI outputs where the 700 only has one. You wont get network capabilities with the Aventage line until you dip a dime on the A1000 which also gives you better video processing. In the end, if I had my choice between the a700 and the 867 for the same price, I would have to go with the 867 due to it having a couple minor features and one major feature (networking) over the a700. I think I would even choose the 867 over the a800 since that isn't even network enabled. I love having access to my entire music collection which is sitting on my NAS (450gigs). I can either scroll through all of my albums or I can create playlists. Its pretty cool. I highly recommend to anyone who hasn't purchased a network capable receiver to ask Santa for one.

Also, anyone with a A700, could you tell me if it had the new multi point YPAO.


Sounds like the OP might be building a desktop PC surround system (see the original post), in which case the networking feature would be superfluous. He also said that he will not be using the receiver at all for video processing--no need for additional HDMI outputs. Seems like a time to save $70 instead of spending it on a higher model that would have unused features.

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post #19 of 41 Old 12-04-2011, 01:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsceneJesster View Post

The A800 is identical spec wise to the 867 although it still doesn't have network capabilities like the 867. I believe the 800 series also have 2 HDMI outputs where the 700 only has one. You wont get network capabilities with the Aventage line until you dip a dime on the A1000 which also gives you better video processing. In the end, if I had my choice between the a700 and the 867 for the same price, I would have to go with the 867 due to it having a couple minor features and one major feature (networking) over the a700. I think I would even choose the 867 over the a800 since that isn't even network enabled. I love having access to my entire music collection which is sitting on my NAS (450gigs). I can either scroll through all of my albums or I can create playlists. Its pretty cool. I highly recommend to anyone who hasn't purchased a network capable receiver to ask Santa for one.

Also, anyone with a A700, could you tell me if it had the new multi point YPAO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Sounds like the OP might be building a desktop PC surround system (see the original post), in which case the networking feature would be superfluous. He also said that he will not be using the receiver at all for video processing--no need for additional HDMI outputs. Seems like a time to save $70 instead of spending it on a higher model that would have unused features.

Yes, if this was for a home theatre system I would definitely want networking features. Since I'm building this for my desktop PC, my ideal receiver would actually only have audio processing (apparently they don't make such a receiver).
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post #20 of 41 Old 12-04-2011, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterMic View Post

Yes, if this was for a home theatre system I would definitely want networking features. Since I'm building this for my desktop PC, my ideal receiver would actually only have audio processing (apparently they don't make such a receiver).

That would be nice. I have a 2.1 desktop PC system with RC-10s and a Mirage Prestige S10 sub, and none of the integrated amps or 2 channel stereo receivers below $400 have optical in, sub line out, and bass management. So I'm stuck between getting a full HT receiver or the HK 3490 stereo receiver which has the optical and the sub line out, but no built in low pass/high pass crossover. And that makes no sense because the stereo receivers have sub outs; they seem to forget that subs don't have high pass with their crossovers.

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I ended up ordering the HK AVR 1600 today thru Amazon available from OneCall for $229. It's roughly equivalent (5 more watts) to the 12 year old HK AVR 35 it will be replacing (the DSP features, optical in, and sub out recently burned out and it only works in 2 channel mode now).

The AVR 1600 has gotten some bad testimonials for HDMI upscaling and HDMI device compatibility issues that don't matter to me. As you mentioned, MasterMic, the audio section is what is important. It seems best for me just to replace what I already liked

Based on my experience in home with a Denon AVR-888 (my primary HT receiver) and an older AVR-1706, as well as the HK AVR 35 and even earlier HK stereo receiver models, I would guess that the HK AVR 1600 is equivalent in class to the Denon 1612, with the major audio feature difference being no Audessey. The Denon and the HK sound is also quite different. To me, HKs have a fuller, warmer sound, yet still seem accurate; the Denon is more neutral, a little more precise, maybe. Of Marantz, Denon, HK, Yamaha, and NAD receivers and amps that I've had in home experience with I tend to like the HK sound the best with the Denon a close second. If you have friends that have HT or 2 channel stereo receivers, it could be very worthwhile taking your RC-10s to their houses and figuring out which manufacturer you like the sound of.

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post #22 of 41 Old 12-04-2011, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

That would be nice. I have a 2.1 desktop PC system with RC-10s and a Mirage Prestige S10 sub, and none of the integrated amps or 2 channel stereo receivers below $400 have optical in, sub line out, and bass management. So I'm stuck between getting a full HT receiver or the HK 3490 stereo receiver which has the optical and the sub line out, but no built in low pass/high pass crossover. And that makes no sense because the stereo receivers have sub outs; they seem to forget that subs don't have high pass with their crossovers.

You would think there would be a market for such a device, but apparently there isn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I ended up ordering the HK AVR 1600 today thru Amazon available from OneCall for $229. It's roughly equivalent (5 more watts) to the 12 year old HK AVR 35 it will be replacing (the DSP features, optical in, and sub out recently burned out and it only works in 2 channel mode now).

The AVR 1600 has gotten some bad testimonials for HDMI upscaling and HDMI device compatibility issues that don't matter to me. As you mentioned, MasterMic, the audio section is what is important. It seems best for me just to replace what I already liked

Based on my experience in home with a Denon AVR-888 (my primary HT receiver) and an older AVR-1706, as well as the HK AVR 35 and even earlier HK stereo receiver models, I would guess that the HK AVR 1600 is equivalent in class to the Denon 1612, with the major audio feature difference being no Audessey. The Denon and the HK sound is also quite different. To me, HKs have a fuller, warmer sound, yet still seem accurate; the Denon is more neutral, a little more precise, maybe. Of Marantz, Denon, HK, Yamaha, and NAD receivers and amps that I've had in home experience with I tend to like the HK sound the best with the Denon a close second. If you have friends that have HT or 2 channel stereo receivers, it could be very worthwhile taking your RC-10s to their houses and figuring out which manufacturer you like the sound of.

Thanks for the opinion and good luck with your new receiver! Testing the different brands of receivers would be a smart idea, but none of my friends are as geeky as I am . I might stop by one of the big box stores just to test some out.

I'm leaning towards getting the Denon AVR-1612 (because of the Audyssey and, frankly, the modern aesthetics ). After I receive a reply from HSU I think I'm going to pull the trigger!
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post #23 of 41 Old 12-04-2011, 04:23 PM
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Thanks for the opinion and good luck with your new receiver! Testing the different brands of receivers would be a smart idea, but none of my friends are as geeky as I am . I might stop by one of the big box stores just to test some out.

I'm leaning towards getting the Denon AVR-1612 (because of the Audyssey and, frankly, the modern aesthetics ). After I receive a reply from HSU I think I'm going to pull the trigger!

If it's a Best Buy (unless it's a Magnolia store), probably a waste of time to test out receivers there. It'll be hard to get a good idea of differences because of the way that they have everything wired up. And they don't have bookshelves as good as yours. Seriously

If this is you first time with a Denon and Audessey, AVS member batpig's configuration guide and FAQ are invaluable. Denon's manuals are fairly cryptic, and batpig also tells you best practices for getting Audessey configured with your sub.

Update: Oopps I forgot you are in Canada. Still, any store with a setup as bad as Best Buy will not help on receiver comparison shopping too much.

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post #24 of 41 Old 12-04-2011, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

If it's a Best Buy (unless it's a Magnolia store), probably a waste of time to test out receivers there. It'll be hard to get a good idea of differences because of the way that they have everything wired up. And they don't have bookshelves as good as yours. Seriously

If this is you first time with a Denon and Audessey, AVS member batpig's configuration guide and FAQ are invaluable. Denon's manuals are fairly cryptic, and batpig also tells you best practices for getting Audessey configured with your sub.

Update: Oopps I forgot you are in Canada. Still, any store with a setup as bad as Best Buy will not help on receiver comparison shopping too much.

I guess I'll just have to wing it then! Honestly, I think I'll be happy with almost any receiver; I can always upgrade later on if I feel like it.

HSU actually just replied to my email. They recommended a VTF-1 instead of the STF-2. I just need to strike a deal with them and then I'm good to go!


Thanks everyone for your input; I'll be sure to update this thread once I complete my setup.

Oh, and thanks for the guide! It looks very useful.
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post #25 of 41 Old 12-04-2011, 07:04 PM
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Sounds like the OP might be building a desktop PC surround system (see the original post), in which case the networking feature would be superfluous. He also said that he will not be using the receiver at all for video processing--no need for additional HDMI outputs. Seems like a time to save $70 instead of spending it on a higher model that would have unused features.

I know, I thought you were looking into the A700 since you said you were looking too in the same post you mentioned the A700. I was just recommending the V867 to you since you get quite a bit more options for $70 more.
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post #26 of 41 Old 12-04-2011, 07:09 PM
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Just to let you know, the RC's have a very warm sound already and I just thought about it but using a Yamaha or a HK will make them even warmer. You might want to go with something a little more neutral or even something bright to balance things out.

Denon for neutral and Onkyo for bright.
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post #27 of 41 Old 12-04-2011, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ObsceneJesster View Post

I know, I thought you were looking into the A700 since you said you were looking too in the same post you mentioned the A700. I was just recommending the V867 to you since you get quite a bit more options for $70 more.

Appreciate that. I wouldn't use the networking or the extra HDMI out either. There are three audio setups in my house, each with a PC hooked up to them (two are desktop systems, the other an HTCP on my main HT setup). Everything is networked already

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post #28 of 41 Old 12-04-2011, 07:47 PM
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I ended up ordering the HK AVR 1600 today thru Amazon available from OneCall for $229. It's roughly equivalent (5 more watts) to the 12 year old HK AVR 35 it will be replacing (the DSP features, optical in, and sub out recently burned out and it only works in 2 channel mode now).

The AVR 1600 has gotten some bad testimonials for HDMI upscaling and HDMI device compatibility issues that don't matter to me. As you mentioned, MasterMic, the audio section is what is important. It seems best for me just to replace what I already liked

Nice choice. I really like the sound of the previous generation HK AVRs (and HK in general).

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I'm leaning towards getting the Denon AVR-1612 (because of the Audyssey and, frankly, the modern aesthetics ). After I receive a reply from HSU I think I'm going to pull the trigger!

The 1712 has the better version of Audyssey, Audyssey MultEQ XT, so it might be worth considering over the 1612 even though it's more expensive.

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post #29 of 41 Old 12-04-2011, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Appreciate that. I wouldn't use the networking or the extra HDMI out either. There are three audio setups in my house, each with a PC hooked up to them (two are desktop systems, the other an HTCP on my main HT setup). Everything is networked already

I have been thinking about building a Media PC. I love building PC's but haven't built one recently since I kinda of got away from desk tops. I'm thinking I can build a pretty good media PC for about $700.
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post #30 of 41 Old 12-04-2011, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ObsceneJesster View Post

Also, anyone with a A700, could you tell me if it had the new multi point YPAO.

The Yamaha RX-A700 does not have mutipoint YPAO. Neither does the A710, but the A810 does. Also, the A700 is the same as the V667. Right now at Amazon, the A700 is 338 and the V667 is 408. Must be because the V667 is marketed more and is better known. It's information like this that makes this forum is so valuable.
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