Mini Veritas Review - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 01-10-2012, 10:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey all...

Just checking back in. I haven't seen much in the way of reviews of Energy's new line of their Veritas series, but I thought I'd give a well thought out review for you folks looking at them:

I've owned a wide array of loudspeakers and HT setups ranging from Paradigm Studios to Klipsch Icon and Klipsch Reference to some of Axiom's products and various other manufacturers. I won't comment on all of my older setups, however I liked the Paradigms and the Klipsch were too bright.

My setup right now driving and combined with the Energys:

Pioneer SC-57
PS3
300 Disc Sony Mega changer
Acoustically treated room
Bowers Wilkins 10 inch CM subwoofer
Veritas 6.3 towers fronts
Veritas center
Veritas monitor bookshelves as surrounds
Not that it matters, but currently using the HX929 XBR as a TV.

I was hesistant to the pull the trigger on these. I usually don't love going for the expensive big name, because your usually paying for the name. However, don't regret it for a second. Very impressed because these speakers are very musical and sweet, and at the same time they are punchy enough for HT and gaming. First thing I'll say is that they are expectionally beautiful. The Piano rosenut lacquer isn't cheap at all. It's decently scratch proof. Woofers feel solid, and the titanium tweeter is protected by plastic. Yada yada, your regular stuff here boys.

Speakers are pretty sensitive, above 90dB. I couldn't pass up a certain site's sale for these speakers and decided to add them to my theater. Extremely impressive for a very skinny and not so large speaker. The first thing you notice (especially when hooking them up with a decent amp and a clean sounding pre amp or receiver) is that they are a benchmark for clarity in this price range. While not as warm or "polite" as the Paradigm Studios were, they exhibit very accurate detail without slurring high end or low end. There's no particular area where these speakers shine, because they shine in all spectrums. At first I thought low end would be a problem but in a properly treated room these bad boys have more than enough clean midbass for music and other listening. Comparitively speaking using the Klipsch Reference and the Paradigm Studios, I'd say in terms of harshness they are right in the middle. Not too harsh on highs, but not too warm where your missing the extra 'umph' associated with mid-high end speakers. Transient response is great, but not ultra fantastic.

However, like anything, a cheap receiver or low end pre-amp will not bring out the best in these speakers. Something clean and uncolored is the best way to enjoy these as that's how I can describe them best. Uncolored with a pinch of 'fluff', meaning they have a characteristic of mellowness which really makes the mid-end range of the speakers give depth to instruments.

Demos:

I inserted Norah Jones album "Come Away With Me" into my CDP to start the auditioning. (Once the speakers were broken in with a few hours). The track "Don't Know Why" sounded so incredibly accurate I forgot how much I paid for these. After auditioning the Focal Scala Utopia towers, I never thought I'd find a speaker which I would like nearly as much. As Norah's voice raised higher and higher, the tweeter followed through sweeter and sweeter. Her voice was never harsh or colored. It was as if she was singing in my bedroom right in front of me. The light striking of the piano was brought on smoothly and filled the soundstage just the right amount.

The next track Seven Years was where I like to test the mid-range of loudspeakers. Too often I find speakers muddying the introductory bass and thining out the lightly plucked guitar strings. The Veritas 6.3 towers created a full yet clean midbass packed with a clean and full mid-range. Again, not too thin and raspy, but not too warm and laid-back. That's not to say these speakers don't have any characteristics, they just dont focus on over-exaggeration.

The next CD I demod was Pearl Jam's Rear View Mirror. This is where some may have issues with these speakers. They aren't punchy - at all. That's not to say they won't crank up and blast Pearl Jam's 12 guitarists and Veder's voice though. This is where the Veritas slightly small woofers wont give you a super Porterhouse thick mid-range. Where they will punch you though is when the guitar chords hit you will feel a certain depth and clarity and large soundstage. If you want a high end hitter, go for the Klipsch or something along those lines. However, if you pair the Veritas with a nice clean subwoofer, you'll find they will compliment each other very well - and that's the problem. If using these for a dedicated Stereo setup for music, don't cheap out on the subwoofer (you should know that by now). I used the Klipsch RW-12D when I first had these speakers and while it had the volume and power, it lacked dynamics and cleanliness. Upon adding the B and W, the system was transformed and the subwoofer acted as an extension of the speakers - how it should be.

Anyways, next was Home Theater experience. The first movie I threw in to listen to was the Dark Knight. Dialogue from Batman was crisp and flat, and the epic soundtrack brought out the fantastic soundstage of these speakers. Explosions and rumbles never fatigued your ears, but rather they brought you closer to the action. If I could explain these speakers in easy terms, I'd say they never "try too hard". Even when cranking up my receiver to +1.0dB, they never strained and never thinned out. Sound effects from the movie felt realistic. At some points during the movie I wanted to reach out and grab what I thought was Batman's cape flying at me. Iron Man 2 was similar in terms of overall clarity and range. The opening flying scene never punches you in the face like it did with the Klipsch Reference, but it breathes down your neck with no distortion. However, the B and W CM subwoofer LOVED that scene and plunged down to hell and back and ripped out my intestines in the process. (Well treated room to blame too)


I do a fair amount of gaming, and Modern Warfare 3 was first on the list. Guns sounded crisp and detailed while firing and reloading, and I felt the bullet cases fall on the ground in every direction. I never felt that presence of realism with the Paradigms or the Klipsch. However nothing ever leaps out at you in the game sound wise.

On the other hand, Battlefield 3 is a different story. Firing the M4 makes my stomach rumble while the never thin mid-range recreates the firing sound very well. Explosions sound fierce but not ear shattering, again.


Conclusion:

If your looking for a speaker that demonstrates a certain characteristic, this isn't for you. If your looking for something which will thrill you with high-end prowess, this isn't for you. If you are however looking for an accurate, slightly warm, and detailed speaker, it's a revolution for it's price tag. (Assuming on sale). I used to think Axiom's products were great deals, but this just takes my ears to a new level. (For the price).

Sure, they wont match the Focal Utopias, or high end Ariels or say the Kef 205/2 reference series. But hell, they offer a fantastic sound with a nice soundstage which when paired with a subwoofer puts an ear-to-ear smile on my face.

If anyone wants me to go into detail or review the B and W sub, just let me know. Hope this all helps!
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post #2 of 19 Old 01-10-2012, 10:40 PM
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It looks like you have been busy, since January 2011

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post #3 of 19 Old 01-10-2012, 11:01 PM
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Thanksforthe review. I'm debating keeping mine but I think I'm just having tweaking issues with my receiver and not the 6.3's. (4311ci)

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post #4 of 19 Old 01-10-2012, 11:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I must've switched around 9 or 10 sets of speakers before I found the right ones for me...
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post #5 of 19 Old 01-10-2012, 11:05 PM
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Pictures would be even better also, what center do you have? 5.2c? Oh wait, I remember you, your the one that had the fatty gift card from vanns. Yeah I sent you a pm asking how you liked the veritas. Glad you posted your review.. Now, pictures!!!

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post #6 of 19 Old 01-11-2012, 07:54 AM
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Thanks for the awesome review.

I have a pair of RC-10s in my home for a 2.1 system, and I have been thinking about upgrading my HT setup to RC-70s. Based on what you described here, sounds like the Veritas improve on what I don't like about the RC-10s.

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post #7 of 19 Old 01-11-2012, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

... on what I don't like about the RC-10s.

...a little low midrange-upper bass thickness/emphasis made more noticeable by the polite treble?

Just curious...

I think the V-5.2C improves on this compared to the RC-LCR - better clarity particularly at low volumes, and less low end thickness.... but I find the V-5.2C's treble to be a little edgy and more revealing of sibilance.... and sibilance drives me nuts...

So I can't quite make the change from the RC- LCR to the V-5.2C....
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post #8 of 19 Old 01-11-2012, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

...a little low midrange-upper bass thickness/emphasis made more noticeable by the polite treble?

Just curious...

I think the V-5.2C improves on this compared to the RC-LCR - better clarity particularly at low volumes, and less low end thickness.... but I find the V-5.2C's treble to be a little edgy and more revealing of sibilance.... and sibilance drives me nuts...

So I can't quite make the change from the RC- LCR to the V-5.2C....

I know you've owned/audioned a fair share of speakers with the Sierra 1 being amongst them. How you would you rate them vs the Energy(rc or veritas)...if I could ask?

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post #9 of 19 Old 01-11-2012, 10:22 AM
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I own both the Veritas v5.1 and the Sierra-1s. As it is, the Sierra-1s have a sweeter tweeter while the Veritas are a bit more edgy, forward. Neither are forgiving speakers.

Im going a comparison at the moment against the v5.1, Sierra-1s, LSi7s, and 685Bs. I will post my final thoughts soon.
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post #10 of 19 Old 01-11-2012, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

...a little low midrange-upper bass thickness/emphasis

Yep. And in that range somewhere or maybe a little higher in the midrange, seems like it has some trouble articulating certain guitar chords. And then I also have an old B&W 601 setup for my HT system. I really like the smoothness and clarity of the high end. Sounds like the Veritas tweeter has improved a touch on the RC-10, which would probably be better for me.

I want to hear coN83's comparison of the Veritas 5.1 and Sierra-1 (mentioned above), too, because the Sierra is the other main set that has attracted my attention. But I'm not buying any time in the next six months. TV upgrade and a second sub has to come first

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post #11 of 19 Old 01-11-2012, 12:39 PM
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I had exactly the same feeling about the RC-10s. When I bought them, I thought they were dull on some types of music. The more I listened, the more they broke in and the more they opened up. However, I just felt there was something missing. I took a leap of faith and purchased some RC-50s and they, despite having the same tweeter as the RC-10s, do not have the same problem. They are not muddy at all and gave me the additional detail and crispness in the mid/high frequencies that I was looking for. So, I'm not sure if it's the tweeter that is the culprit of this muddiness in certain music from the RC-10. It might just be the way crossover is set in the RC-10s or the RC-50s just being a superior speaker with multiple drivers and a different crossover configuration.
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post #12 of 19 Old 01-11-2012, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjl4004 View Post

I had exactly the same feeling about the RC-10s. When I bought them, I thought they were dull on some types of music. The more I listened, the more they broke in and the more they opened up. However, I just felt there was something missing. I took a leap of faith and purchased some RC-50s and they, despite having the same tweeter as the RC-10s, do not have the same problem. They are not muddy at all and gave me the additional detail and crispness in the mid/high frequencies that I was looking for. So, I'm not sure if it's the tweeter that is the culprit of this muddiness in certain music from the RC-10. It might just be the way crossover is set in the RC-10s or the RC-50s just being a superior speaker with multiple drivers and a different crossover configuration.

I had wondered about the RC-50s because then it has the bigger driver for the midrange. Isn't the tweeter supposed to be the same though? Maybe it is the crossover, but Energy lists the same operating range for the tweeter for each.

BTW, I'm not complaining about the RC-10s. I love them for the price.

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post #13 of 19 Old 01-11-2012, 01:17 PM
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I'm certainly no expert, so I'm not certain on why it sounds better. The RC-50s have one additional crossover point at 1.0kHz to go along with one shared with the RC-10s at 2.4kHz. Yes the tweeter is the same, but for whatever reason, I found the RC-50s to be crisper and more detailed. I was pleasantly surprised. I would like to do some A/B'ing with the RC-50s/V6.2 or RC-70/V6.3 myself. The only Veritas speakers I have are the V-Minis, which I like for their size.

I agree thoughfor the price, the RC-10s are a good buy.

I'm sorry about somewhat hijacking this Veritas review thread. Thank you to the OP for taking the time for the write up.
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post #14 of 19 Old 01-11-2012, 03:31 PM
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since we are talking about RC's vs. Veritas and the RC-10's few weaknesses, I will suggest that anyone in this category -- loves the character of the RC-10 but wishes there was a little less "thickness" and more clarity, while retaining that sweet, smooth non-fatiguing treble -- should keep your eyes on the used market for the 2nd gen Veritas monitors (V2.1 and V2.2). My experience was that the V2.1 was like the RC-10 perfected, all the smoothness and warmth but utterly clear and transparent, no hint of muddiness or congestion. I can only imagine the 3-way V2.2 is better.

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post #15 of 19 Old 01-12-2012, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy p View Post

I know you've owned/audioned a fair share of speakers with the Sierra 1 being amongst them. How you would you rate them vs the Energy(rc or veritas)...if I could ask?

I've learned a bit about A/B comparing speakers, and auditioning/listening in general, since the days when I compared the Sierra 1 and RC-10. It's been too long since I've owned the Sierra to really say anything about how the Sierra-1 as a center compares to the Energy V-5.2C.

What I do remember from my Sierra vs RC-10 comparison is that I thought the Sierra was overall a better speaker - cleaner midrange, more balanced sound, yet still better bass extension and punch. At the time, I didn't nitpick things like soundstage and imaging the way I do now.

The one thing that bothered me about the Sierra's was that they didn't do anything to soften sibilance in source material... and since a good deal of my use was HT, and most TV shows and alot of movies don't have the best audio quality, I found the sibilance driving me nuts...

The RC's just seemed to be smoother in the treble to my ears at the time... or to be more accurate, they were a little less honest in how they presented poor material. Couple that with the fact that the RC-10/LCR combo cost me about $325 less than three used Sierra-1's... I opted to keep the RC's and sell the Sierra's.

Had I been a 2-channel music guy, I would've keep the Sierra's... but given most of the use they would've see was TV and movies...I couldn't justify the added cost, and the sibilance thing drove me nuts...

Just to add - the Sierra's aren't a sibilance speaker, IMO. They're just not going to hide it. My ears are very sensitive to sibilance, since long before I even got into audio, I can remember complaining more times than I can count about how the "Sssss annunciators" kill my ears.
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post #16 of 19 Old 01-12-2012, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjl4004 View Post

I had exactly the same feeling about the RC-10s. When I bought them, I thought they were dull on some types of music. The more I listened, the more they broke in and the more they opened up. However, I just felt there was something missing. I took a leap of faith and purchased some RC-50s and they, despite having the same tweeter as the RC-10s, do not have the same “problem”. They are not muddy at all and gave me the additional detail and “crispness” in the mid/high frequencies that I was looking for. So, I’m not sure if it’s the tweeter that is the culprit of this “muddiness” in certain music from the RC-10. It might just be the way crossover is set in the RC-10s or the RC-50s just being a superior speaker with multiple drivers and a different crossover configuration.

I have to say, the more speakers I audition, the more I can nitpick where the RC-10 is lacking. There was something about the sound I could never quite put my finger out, or put into words... Then I read a member's review here at AVS, comparing the Wharfedale Evo2-8 to the RC-10... and he hit the nail on the head...

There is some sort of hollowness, or in my words, a disconnect to the sound... I noticed this most clearly recently when A/B comparing the RC-10 to the NHT Absolute Tower.

Don't get me wrong, I like the RC-10's quite a bit, and for the most part, every speaker I have brought in to compare to them has fallen short of replacing the RC-10's... for one reason or another (not just sound/performance... but also $$ and aesthetic considerations)
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post #17 of 19 Old 01-12-2012, 11:18 AM
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I have a pair of rc 10s and have considered the rc 70s for the future. Comments on the rc 50 are getting my interest. I currently use my 10s with a v mini center and enjoy it

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

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post #18 of 19 Old 01-12-2012, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coN83 View Post

I own both the Veritas v5.1 and the Sierra-1s...

...Neither are forgiving speakers.

I agree with that entirely given my experience with the Sierra-1 and V-5.2C.
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post #19 of 19 Old 01-12-2012, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

I have to say, the more speakers I audition, the more I can nitpick where the RC-10 is lacking. There was something about the sound I could never quite put my finger out, or put into words... Then I read a member's review here at AVS, comparing the Wharfedale Evo2-8 to the RC-10... and he hit the nail on the head...

There is some sort of hollowness, or in my words, a disconnect to the sound... I noticed this most clearly recently when A/B comparing the RC-10 to the NHT Absolute Tower.

Don't get me wrong, I like the RC-10's quite a bit, and for the most part, every speaker I have brought in to compare to them has fallen short of replacing the RC-10's... for one reason or another (not just sound/performance... but also $$ and aesthetic considerations)

Do you currently have the Absolute towers? If so (so as not to hijack this thread) PM me your opinion and any additional info.

Thanks
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