Originally Posted by kiwi2
Well that's the theory. I have found the reality of the real world to be somewhat different though. To me 80 hz crossover reduced the soundstage and it sounded like the drums were always placed at the centre of the stage. With a 60 hz crossover, bass instruments seemed as if they could come from the extreme left and right of stage as well. It made for a lot more enjoyable and engaging listening experience.
You may want to read the link someone just posted that makes your grandiose sweeping statement not quite so true after all..."Bass localization is particularly noticeable when the subwoofer is located close to the listening position and crossed over above 60Hz from our experience. We have run blindfolded listening tests in our own sound labs and found that the pressure waves of bass are localizable to the human ear as far down as 60Hz if the subwoofer is placed in close proximity to the listening position."http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/ge...tower-speakers
I did some reading and I believe that I have a better understanding of our different opinions.
First, let me refer you to this link:http://forum.blu-ray.com/subwoofers/...t-part-ii.html
It references a study in Europe in which frequencies from subs began to be localized at 185 Hz but below 80 Hz, people were unable to localize sound. So, I think on a purely scientific level, my statement is correct. Of course, real life is more complicated.
The article then says this:If you believe that you can localize the frequencies below 80Hz in your room, it is most likely that you are hearing the the upper harmonics of those bass frequencies and those can clearly be localized. The solution is better room treatment and bass traps.
Couple that fact with the slopes of the crossovers used in low pass filters of receivers, and it gets complicated.
So, a crossover set at 80Hz means that there is still sound at frequencies lower than 80 Hz being sent to the main L/R speakers, even if set to small, and there is sound above 80Hz coming from the sub.
Also, we never listen to pure tones when listening to music or watching a movie.
My issue with what Commsysman posted is that he stated what he prefers as if it is a fact. If he had said "I feel like the best sound from my system is with the crossover set at 60, and therefore I prefer fronts that play down to 50hz" I would be totally cool with that. As you said, that sound is preferable in your setup and obviously in his too. But, implying that a speaker must go to 50Hz in order to set the crossover at 60Hz is not fact, it is just one way of doing it. The most popular setup is for the crossover to be at 80Hz. So, that should be stated clearly so as not to confuse people looking for advice.
He also said this:
I can't imagine what is meant by the statement "won't really get any info below that frequency anyway". The main speakers get everything that the amplifier puts out, which usually is down to 20 Hz, so that is clearly not correct.
That only applies if the fronts are set to "Large" which is not recommended for many reasons. If he has his system setup that way, he likely is hearing distortion from his mains, which he says roll off at 40Hz. Maybe that is why he localizes the bass from them.
Finally, I can't find the THX reference he keeps mentioning regarding stereo subwoofers all the way down to 20Hz. I would love if he posted the link, so I could learn more about it. In all my browsing I have always understood sub output to be mono, as Kalani posted, so multiple subs are just for smoothing, not stereo. But, I will freely admit I am wrong if I can read the reference.
So, if one has mains that play 50Hz or lower, such as most tower speakers, and the room sounds better with a 60hz crossover, totally cool. If one has bookshelf speakers that play to 65hz, and the room sounds good with crossover of 80Hz, also cool.