More problems with Elemental Designs - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 01-17-2012, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm very conflicted writing this, as when I do manage to make contact with Elemental Designs they are apologetic and friendly on the phone, but enough is enough.

About two weeks before thanksgiving, we talked to Elemental Designs. My father and I asked Alex specifically if he was able to commit to a seven channel order of the edc6 speakers with the upgraded compression driver and if we could get them by thanksgiving. He reassured us that it was absolutely possible - we were very specific; if he could not deliver by Thanksgiving, than we would not place the order. He assured us it wasn't a problem and we placed the couple thousand dollar order.

Up until a couple of days before thanksgiving, he kept telling us we were right on track. We spent big money getting everything else ready for our Thanksgiving party theater opening. Then we get an email from him saying that he cannot deliver them by Thanksgiving.

After telling him that was unacceptable, we worked out a compromise where they would overnight us the center and 2 fronts and we would split the overnight shipping. We paid a couple of hundred dollars more out of our own pocket for this.

When the speakers arrived, they were packaged terribly and the center channel was DOA. I'm not exaggerating when I say that inside the box was literally random peices of broken styrofoam haphazardly thrown in the box with the center channel in it. The center channel was so damaged that two screws had popped out of the horn.

We talked with Alex and he agreed to ship is a new center channel. This took longer than he said it would, but eventually it came in.

So thanksgiving goes by, and the new deadline is Christmas. Alex offers to build us a subwoofer isolation platform to make up for it. Of course, once Christmas approaches Alex informs us that the speakers will not be ready once again. He offers to send two more speakers in an upgraded finish. We declined the upgraded finish because it would not match our front speakers.

Sure enough, when the two more speakers come in they are the upgraded finish. Great, now we have mismatching speakers.

Now, Alex is not returning multiple emails, we STILL do not have our final two speakers, we have mismatched speakers, and a dead center channel that we have to ship back. And we also do not have the isolation platform OR the promised shipping refund that he gave.

This is completely unacceptable. If anyone from Elemental Designs sees this, how are you going to fix it? At this point, we need the remaining two speakers in the upgraded finish (we are not unmounting and sending back the upgraded ones, so the new ones have to match too), the isolation platform, and the promised shipping refund.

I have been hesitating to take this public, but I've had enough "promises" go by where I feel I have no choice. We are still out a significant amount of money at present.

I understand that ED is a small company, but you know what? So is Seaton Sound. We ordered a Submersive HP at the same time we ordered the ED speakers and got it less than a week later and received excellent service the whole time. There is a proper way to run a business, and ED is not doing it.
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post #2 of 33 Old 01-17-2012, 10:28 AM
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paradoxical3, I ordered three center ed[c]12's five weeks ago tomorrow. Alex, stated they would be finished in three weeks, with shipping taking an additional three days. Well, I'm still waiting. I'm not even sure if they are in production yet. I'm getting close to cancelling and ordering some sho-10's, since I sold my old speakers two weeks ago.

On a side note, their website indicated that after February 15th, they will have products in-stock and ready to ship. So i am sure they are trying to fix things.
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post #3 of 33 Old 01-17-2012, 10:57 AM
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Sorry to hear about the problems you guys are having. I have had nothing but great service from Ed and will continue to use them.
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post #4 of 33 Old 01-17-2012, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post

I'm very conflicted writing this, as when I do manage to make contact with Elemental Designs they are apologetic and friendly on the phone, but enough is enough.

About two weeks before thanksgiving, we talked to Elemental Designs. My father and I asked Alex specifically if he was able to commit to a seven channel order of the edc6 speakers with the upgraded compression driver and if we could get them by thanksgiving. He reassured us that it was absolutely possible - we were very specific; if he could not deliver by Thanksgiving, than we would not place the order. He assured us it wasn't a problem and we placed the couple thousand dollar order.

Up until a couple of days before thanksgiving, he kept telling us we were right on track. We spent big money getting everything else ready for our Thanksgiving party theater opening. Then we get an email from him saying that he cannot deliver them by Thanksgiving.

After telling him that was unacceptable, we worked out a compromise where they would overnight us the center and 2 fronts and we would split the overnight shipping. We paid a couple of hundred dollars more out of our own pocket for this.

When the speakers arrived, they were packaged terribly and the center channel was DOA. I'm not exaggerating when I say that the box was literally random peices of broken styrofoam haphazardly thrown in the box with the center channel in it. The center channel was so damaged that two screws had popped out of the horn.

We talked with Alex and he agreed to ship is a new center channel. This took longer than he said it would, but eventually it came in.

So thanksgiving goes by, and the new deadline is Christmas. Alex offers to build us a subwoofer isolation platform to make up for it. Of course, once Christmas approaches Alex informs us that the speakers will not be ready once again. He offers to send two more speakers in an upgraded finish. We declined the upgraded finish because it would not match our front speakers.

Sure enough, when the two more speakers come in they are the upgraded finish. Great, now we have mismatching speakers.

Now, Alex is not returning multiple emails, we STILL do not have our final two speakers, we have mismatched speakers, and a dead center channel that we have to ship back. And we also do not have the isolation platform OR the promised shipping refund that he gave.

This is completely unacceptable. If anyone from Elemental Designs sees this, how are you going to fix it? At this point, we need the remaining two speakers in the upgraded finish (we are not unmounting and sending back the upgraded ones, so the new ones have to match two), the isolation platform, and the promised shipping refund.

I have been hesitating to take this public, but I've had enough "promises" go by where I feel I have no choice. We are still out a significant amount of money at present.

I understand that ED is a small company, but you know what? So is Seaton Sound. We ordered a Submersive HP at the same time we ordered the ED speakers and got it less than a week later and received excellent service the whole time. There is a proper way to run a business, and ED is not doing it.

That is completely unacceptable. I am a happy eD customer and I used to recommend them on this forum and others (as well as to friends and family members), but I am at the point where I will start recommending other brands. There are just too many stories like this one, and while it seems like eD usually does the right thing in the end, the experience is not very positive.

At this point I would probable insist on a full refund and ship everything back on their dime. Or get a lawyer.
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post #5 of 33 Old 01-17-2012, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

At this point I would probable insist on a full refund and ship everything back on their dime. Or get a lawyer.

Yup. Give them a firm deadline to meet with clear requirements. If they miss it, ship everything back and start the chargeback process on the credit card. There's no reason to put up with this crap. There's too many good companies out there that make good products.
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post #6 of 33 Old 01-17-2012, 12:40 PM
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I just received my ED 12 fronts and a custom made ED 12 Center within the last 2-3 weeks. I placed my order the first week of October. I guess that's what? 2 1/2 months? (originally told 2-3 weeks) I was also frustrated by the lack of a specific delivery date, or where my order was in the production process ... I did receive one front that was DOA, and the second that was shipped was DOA as well. The problem was the DE-250 Magnet was too heavy for the pvc/plastic horn connection in the back and broke during shipping. I was the first customer this had happened with, but eD shipped a new De-250 Magnet/Horn Assembly.

All this said, I'm VERY happy with my order, and will order the 2 ED 12 rears to complete my set (hopefully) soon. I'm going to keep this set over my previous Salk Song-Surround I's and Song-Center as they fit my home theater application better. The reaction of my daughter and others to this set of speakers has been great!

Alex/ED personally took control of the issues that happened with my order, and strived to make it right. The customer service was great.

I feel more realistic shipping times, ability to tell customer where order is at in production schedule, and better packaging may help them in the future.

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post #7 of 33 Old 01-17-2012, 12:47 PM
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redfive, Do you have a pic that you can post of the custom center 12? I'm curious to what the finished center looks like. Thanks.
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post #8 of 33 Old 01-17-2012, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post

Now, Alex is not returning multiple emails, we STILL do not have our final two speakers, we have mismatched speakers, and a dead center channel that we have to ship back. And we also do not have the isolation platform OR the promised shipping refund that he gave.

This is completely unacceptable. If anyone from Elemental Designs sees this, how are you going to fix it? At this point, we need the remaining two speakers in the upgraded finish (we are not unmounting and sending back the upgraded ones, so the new ones have to match two), the isolation platform, and the promised shipping refund.

I have been hesitating to take this public, but I've had enough "promises" go by where I feel I have no choice. We are still out a significant amount of money at present.

I understand that ED is a small company, but you know what? So is Seaton Sound. We ordered a Submersive HP at the same time we ordered the ED speakers and got it less than a week later and received excellent service the whole time. There is a proper way to run a business, and ED is not doing it.

Have you tried calling them? I know when I had issues someone from the ED team picked up usually within 3 rings ...

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post #9 of 33 Old 01-17-2012, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ronjon84790 View Post

redfive, Do you have a pic that you can post of the custom center 12? I'm curious to what the finished center looks like. Thanks.

Yep .. I attached a pic!




EDIT : That pic is hard to see ... sorry I don't have another right now
LL

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post #10 of 33 Old 01-17-2012, 12:57 PM
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redfive, Thanks for the pic. That center 12 looks sweet!
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post #11 of 33 Old 01-17-2012, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redfive View Post

Have you tried calling them? I know when I had issues someone from the ED team picked up usually within 3 rings ...

I would think with all the issues and promises, eD would be calling the OP.

At any rate we are getting one side of the story here, but it does seem to be a common story lately with eD and home theater gear.
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post #12 of 33 Old 01-17-2012, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post

I understand that ED is a small company, but you know what? So is Seaton Sound. We ordered a Submersive HP at the same time we ordered the ED speakers and got it less than a week later and received excellent service the whole time. There is a proper way to run a business, and ED is not doing it.

eD needs a entire overhaul. Start with hiring someone that knows how to run a company. Its that or risk the company getting such a bad rap that they might not recover from it. How many people have read this that are now turned off by eD and going with something else? It just seems that they promise all kinds of things to everyone but never follow through with them. I see excuses after excuse from eD about this or that but still nothing is done.
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post #13 of 33 Old 01-17-2012, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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We've called ED numerous times. Someone always answers, sometimes Alex, sometimes other people. The last time I called, I was told Alex was in a meeting and would call me back. He never did.

The thing is, talking on the phone does no good. It always goes the same way. Alex is courteous and respectful, makes a new shipping deadline and some other appeasement promise, but we still don't have the entire product we ordered.
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post #14 of 33 Old 01-17-2012, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

eD needs a entire overhaul. Start with hiring someone that knows how to run a company. Its that or risk the company getting such a bad rap that they might not recover from it. How many people have read this that are now turned off by eD and going with something else? It just seems that they promise all kinds of things to everyone but never follow through with them. I see excuses after excuse from eD about this or that but still nothing is done.

The really sad thing is that they make a great product. The speakers that we do have are really phenomenal home theater speakers.
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post #15 of 33 Old 01-17-2012, 03:43 PM
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I ordered 2 sub isolation pads (actually my two brothers ordered me one each) 2 weeks b4 christmas. I have one. They said the other is waiting on foam.....really, foam? So its been 6 weeks for something that takes minutes to make. That was with express shipping too.
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post #16 of 33 Old 01-18-2012, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

eD needs a entire overhaul. Start with hiring someone that knows how to run a company. Its that or risk the company getting such a bad rap that they might not recover from it. How many people have read this that are now turned off by eD and going with something else? It just seems that they promise all kinds of things to everyone but never follow through with them. I see excuses after excuse from eD about this or that but still nothing is done.

I was considering eD for my most recent sub upgrade. I was excited about the custom sealed 13" subs they'd built and was going to order two of them. But after reading so many horror stories about blown amps and long waits I was turned off.

I admire the company for building their enclosures here in the USA and I believe that they are doing the best they can. I don't think they're evil people. But sometimes doing your best just isn't good enough. It sounds like something needs to change.
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post #17 of 33 Old 01-18-2012, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post

We've called ED numerous times. Someone always answers, sometimes Alex, sometimes other people. The last time I called, I was told Alex was in a meeting and would call me back. He never did.

The thing is, talking on the phone does no good. It always goes the same way. Alex is courteous and respectful, makes a new shipping deadline and some other appeasement promise, but we still don't have the entire product we ordered.

I suspect he is busy running Dwolla!
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post #18 of 33 Old 01-18-2012, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post

The really sad thing is that they make a great product. The speakers that we do have are really phenomenal home theater speakers.

Yes it is cause they do make great products, but that isn't enough, especially when you can never receive them. I do agree that you can call, email, or post on forums, but in the end nothing is ever done about it, just empty promises.
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post #19 of 33 Old 01-18-2012, 08:05 PM
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Similar problem here. I've had the amp on my A5-350 stop responding to an input signal. I removed the amp, got an RMA number, filled out all the paperwork and shipped the amp up to them....back in November. I received no confirmation, no eta on when the amp will be fixed. Only when I posted a note on their forum did I get a response from Alex, which was very courteous saying he would find out what was up and get back to me that day. That was in December and I haven't heard anything since... Unless they correct my issue quickly and I start to hear better stories on the forums, they won't be in the running to replace my 23 year old speakers.
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post #20 of 33 Old 01-18-2012, 08:21 PM
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Glad I saw this thread! Was going to consider them as a possible purchase but no longer.
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post #21 of 33 Old 01-18-2012, 08:27 PM
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sounds like a terrible way to do business...thanks for the heads up as they have lost my future business
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post #22 of 33 Old 01-19-2012, 02:35 PM
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I install and recommend home theater systems as a side business these days. I just had a customer spend a couple grand on speakers from my recommendations. And I didn't go with ED for this same reason. Their unrealistic delivery dates, unresponsive to emails once they know there are problems with orders, etc.

And my A2-300 sub is acting up and Alex's response to a thread on their forum was quote, "Case of the calibration overdriving the amplifier/ speaker and doing damage. 99% sure it was damage to the driver in this case and not the amplifier."

So I said to him, what makes him so sure it was Audessy overworking the sub signal and not just that the sub gave out. Wouldn't others who use this sub run into similar problems? It's 2-3 years old. He still thinks Audessy caused it. So I bought an HSU VTF-3 and called it a day. I'll throw another driver into the enclosure when I feel like selling it.

Point of my post is that they not only lost my business, but they also will never get recommendations from me for my clients. BTW, they were pretty good when I started buying car audio stuff from them 5-6 years ago. I've spent easily $5000 in car audio with them. Only home audio stuff I have from them is my broken a2-300. Go figure.
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post #23 of 33 Old 01-19-2012, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by joeyvaz View Post

And my A2-300 sub is acting up and Alex's response to a thread on their forum was quote, "Case of the calibration overdriving the amplifier/ speaker and doing damage. 99% sure it was damage to the driver in this case and not the amplifier."
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Same excuse all the time. I wonder why we only hear about eDs subwoofer being damaged by Audessy? Never hear of SVS, HSU, Epik, Emotiva, Aperion, Paradigm, PSB, Lava, being damaged by calibration. Its weird there has been alot of driver and amp problems and all they can say is Audessys fault
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post #24 of 33 Old 01-20-2012, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

Same excuse all the time. I wonder why we only hear about eDs subwoofer being damaged by Audessy? Never hear of SVS, HSU, Epik, Emotiva, Aperion, Paradigm, PSB, Lava, being damaged by calibration. Its weird there has been alot of driver and amp problems and all they can say is Audessys fault

Exactly, that's why they not only lost my business for good, but all the customers that count on me to recommend them systems from a few hundred to a few thousand at a time. I can't recommend something to them that may fail or not work properly and then have to chase my tail figuring it out. Especially when there are other companies selling superior products in the same price range.
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post #25 of 33 Old 01-20-2012, 10:48 AM
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I ordered a center channel stand 3 or so weeks ago to kind of test the waters since I'm considering an eD 5.0 set of speakers.

I'm going to go ahead and cancel my order and look elsewhere for my speakers, probably JTR although that will mean saving up a bit more.
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post #26 of 33 Old 01-23-2012, 04:46 AM
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Bumping this to the top since they still have not responded to any of my requests.
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post #27 of 33 Old 01-23-2012, 07:29 AM
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wow... be it here in speaker forum, just like at the subwoofer forum, it's still the same complaints about Elemental Designs. Really feel sad for these very unhappy customers.
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post #28 of 33 Old 01-24-2012, 07:03 AM
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Follow up. I received an email from ED's rma group apologizing for the delay and have sent out my amp along with a tracking number. They also repaired it for free as it was out of warranty. Nice gesture and i hope the can get things back on track for everyone else.
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post #29 of 33 Old 01-24-2012, 07:08 AM
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I suspect he is busy running Dwolla!

Alex has absolutely nothing to do with Dwolla.

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post #30 of 33 Old 01-24-2012, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by razrbak View Post

Follow up. I received an email from ED's rma group apologizing for the delay and have sent out my amp along with a tracking number. They also repaired it for free as it was out of warranty. Nice gesture and i hope the can get things back on track for everyone else.

Wow, you sent it back November and its almost February... nice gesture? That's more of like an insult to you than a nice gesture.

I had a problem with an Emotiva product, called them, they gave me an RMA number, sent it to them (no paperwork to fill out, by the way) and four days later I got the unit back like it was brand new. They did apologize for the problem and promised me it will be repaired and shipped back to me as soon as possible... four days from the time I shipped it to them for repairs... now that's what I call a nice gesture.
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