REVIEW: The Audio Insider - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 61 Old 01-19-2012, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
myfootsmells's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi Everyone,

I know a lot of people like these guys, but I had a very horrible experience with them recently.

Here's my review. Warning it's long!

All times are PST.

Fri, 11/18 @ 11:28 AM

Order was received by The Audio Insider for a pair of Swan M200MKII Speakers

Fri, 11/18 @ 3:54 PM

Sent an email to The Audio Insider asking to change the shipping address since I had mistakenly entered the wrong one.

Sat, 11/19 @ 7:27 AM

I receive an email notification that my order status is "Processed"

Sat, 11/19 @ 10:13 AM

Jon Lane sends me an email saying he'll update the address.

Mon, 11/21 @ 2:10 PM

I receive an email notification that my order status is "Shipped"

Mon, 11/21 @ 2:11 PM

I send an email to Jon to make sure the item is being mailed to the correct address.

Mon, 11/21 @ 2:13 PM

Jon sends an email back, "We've instructed the warehouse to use the corrected address." Strange, I thought he had already changed the shipping address on Saturday.

Mon, 11/21 @ 10:54 PM

I send an email to Jon:

"Hi,

I don't know what you need me to do -- granted it was my fault to begin with -- but I've contacted you twice about changing the shipping address -- once Fri, 11/18 and then again Mon, 11/21.

Both times Jon you have said you'd make the change for me and now when I track the package it says the destination is San Marino, CA.

What do I need to do here?"

Tue, 11/22 @ 6:38 AM

I receive an email from Jon:

"Hi Michael,

I instructed the warehouse twice to change the address but according to your finding, apparently it's not been done. I'll call FedEx and make the change myself."

Tue, 11/22 @ 11:30 AM

I receive another email from Jon:

"The delivery address has now been changed."

Wed, 11/23 @ 3:02 PM

I sent an email to Jon saying the speakers were still being shipped to the wrong address and asked for a credit on shipping charges.

== I RECEIVE THE SPEAKERS HURRAY! ==

Thu, 11/24 @ 12:30 PM (It's a pretty loud buzz)

I sent an email to Jon:

"Hello,

The speaker with the heatsink in the back, when I plug in the power and turn it on, there is a slight buzzing sound. Nothing else is plugged into it, no inputs, no cables, just power.

Turning the volume, bass, treble, does not change the volume or pitch of the buzz.

What are my options? Thanks.

Michael"

== I DON'T HEAR FROM JON FOR A COUPLE DAYS (THANKSGIVING)==

Sat, 11/26 @ 8:22 AM

Jon sends me an email asking if the buzzing is thorugh the speaker's drivers or is it a mechanical buzzing insde the speakers?

Sat, 11/26 @ 8:29 AM (This is where things get fishy)

Jon sends me an email:

"Hi Michael,

Let me explain our position on address changes, please, and then you can advise how you see the delivery.

First, as fraud-prevention, we have a policy that prevents running address changes. A customer could theoretically use an authorized credit card to clear the authorization service web sellers use and then switch addresses. I waived this for your order but it is actually our usual policy.

Second, running changes within FedEx are only sometimes effective - I estimate that fully half of them never occur. FedEx runs a highly automated delivery chain and all changes introduced into this chain are manual, making them very non-standard for them to have to deal with. We did everything we could to change the addredd mid-flight, but FedEx themselves simply could not comply.

Lastly, our final policy is that once the product clears our dock it naturally becomes the customer's property. Anything that happens to it from that point is the shippers responsibility, which in this case FedEx agrees to and bears.

All this said, I am more than willing to contact FedEx and see if I can get a credit to our corporate account and if so, to pass that credit on to you. Please give us a few days to work this out."

Here's why it's fishy. First, the billing/shipping address that was initially used was an old address that isn't even tied to the credit card I used to buy the speakers. Second, he mentions that the final policy is that once the product clears their dock it's out of their hands -- which I agree with. However, I specifically asked him to change the address BEFORE the speakers shipped and he even acknowledges that the address was changed BEFORE the speakers shipped. Finally, I never did hear from him about the credit.

Sat, 11/26 @ 5:29 PM

I sent an email to Jon telling him the buzzing is coming through the speakers.

Sun, 11/27 @ 8:43 AM

Jon responds:

"A speaker amplifier's power supply must rectify and filter 120v AC wall voltage to around 24v DC amplifier voltage. Doing so is always a question of degrees: No amount of power supply filtering can perfectly eliminate all 60Hz line "buzz" and a certain residual level will bleed through into the signal.

The question is if this buzz is indeed residual or the product of a defect. Since all Swan powered models are 100% quality-checked before shipping, and since power supply failures are virtually unknown of, one wonders what this buzz is; whether a true defect or just a natural operating function of the amplifiers Swan uses.

If you like we can check the speakers for normal operation. I can't guarantee we'll find a defect or if this is just how the speakers appear to you the customers.

Please let me know and we'll continue to work with you."

Sun, 11/27 @ 11:14 AM

I send Jon an email:

"No this is absolutely a defect. I can hear the buzz clearly when I listen to anything. I've owned many speakers before and none have exhibited this behavior.

Please fix the issue at hand, I've been more than patient through our issues."

Sun, 11/27 @ 11:42 AM

Jon emails me:

"Please repack the speakers as received and return them to the following address. After they arrive, please notify us by email and include the tracking number.

If there is a problem related to manufacture, after inspection we'll refund the comparable costs of shipping by FedEx Ground only.

HAS
c/o Jon Lane
335 S. Beneva Rd.
Ste 1439
Sarasota, FL 34232

Please note that any previous issue was related to the shipper and not ourselves."

That last sentence I really don't believe because he tells me the address has been changed before the package goes out. Also, keep in mind this is where he said he'll refund me the comparable costs of shipping by FedEx Ground only!
Sun, 11/27 @ 11:54 AM (I'm getting frustrated)

I send Jon an email:

"Please enough with the excuses. I emailed you immediately after I placed the order telling you my address was wrong and you said it would be fixed. I then followed up on Monday and you said it would be fixed. Finally, it shipped and I told you AGAIN for the THIRD time it was wrong.

You had two chances to rectify the problem when the speakers were in your possession -- don't blame FedEx they did nothing wrong.

Enough with the excuses, own up to the mistakes, fix the issues, and make your customer happy."

Sun, 11/27 @ 12:31 PM (Jon is getting frustrated)

Jon emails me:

"Michael, I'm not going to either debate or discuss this any longer. We're a professional company that ships scores of units a day. We know how to do these things. We notified FedEx - in a violation of policy - with your address change. As I've told you, what they did with it after that is out of our control. "

Again, he speaks to his policy which is BS in my eyes since I gave him the WRONG billing address when I purchased the speakers. The card should have been declined immediately.

Sun, 11/27 @ 12:48 PM

I send Jon an email:

"If security is your concern I suggest you talk to Authorize.net because that address I used has never been my billing address for that card.

I will send the speakers back tomorrow.

Michael"

Sun, 11/27 @ 2:47 PM (So I'm getting a little snarky)


"Hello Jon,

Can you generate a FedEx shipping label for me to print then? Since you ship scores of units a day I am sure your shipping rate is better than mine. I don't want to end up spending $30 on shipping when you'll only reimburse me $15.

You don't have to worry about scheduling a pickup I will drop it off at a FedEx location."

The originally shipping costs Jon charged me was $18.66. FedEx was quoting me $30+ so I figured his rate must be better than me.

Sun, 11/27 @ 4:06 PM

Jon says:

"We need to evaluate the speakers before they can be found to qualify for prepaid freight."

Sun, 11/27 @ 4:23 PM

I email Jon:

"Okay, FedEx is quoting me about $30 to ship it back to you, if there is a defect found in the speakers you will reimburse me the shipping charges? I can provide a receipt to confirm the cost."

Mon, 11/28 @ 3:28 PM

I send Jon the FedEx tracking #

Fri, 12/2 @ 2:07 PM

I email Jon asking if he's received the package and whether or not it's been inspected yet.

Mon, 12/5 @ 1:24 PM

Jon: "We're inspecting returns tomorrow and will follow-up asap. Thanks."

Thur, 12/8 @ 11:22 AM

Me: "Hi Jon, It's now Thursday, any updates?

Fri, 12/9 @ 11:12 AM

Jon: "Michael,

The speakers were received in proper condition, unpacked, inspected, and benched. Power supply ripple was within spec, and the amplifiers are running on bias. We detected no RF noise in the circuit, and measured (and heard) no DC ripple through the woofers. The speaker runs as designed, and we heard no buzz or hum on the bench when run at our local wall voltage (121vac).

I asked that the amplifier board be replaced anyway, to be absolutely certain. Both boards measure identically and both were QC'd by Swan before shipping, one in your set of speakers and the other in our warranty parts reserve.

I suspect something is happening in your particular system that may include a ground loop, although if running at idle with no input connected there's no way this can be present.

Beyond that I don't know what to say. The speakers have been repacked and were delivered to FedEx Wednesday."

Fri, 12/12 @ 12:27 PM

Me: "Which address did you end up shipping it to?

Mon, 12/12 @ 2:18 AM

Jon: "The address on the return to us"

== I RECEIVED THE SPEAKERS 12/12 ==

Mon, 12/19 @ 4:40 PM

Me: "Hello Jon,

Looks like replacing the amplifier board fixed the issue. I know I'm not crazy and there was noise coming from the speakers that had nothing to do with being normal. I'm assuming you're not going to give me a refund on my shipping costs then?"

Wed, 12/21 @ 11:23 AM

Me: "Hi Jon,

Did you receive this message?"

Thur, 01/29 (Writing this)

It has almost been one month since I sent the last email to Jon asking for a refund of shipping charges which ended up being $30 or so. I decided to give Jon a call and he was friendly at first until he realized who I was. He told me that it's their policy to NOT pay for shipping charges when it's a warranty issue even though on Sun, 11/27 @ 4:06 PM Jon said he cannot until the speakers are inspected. Honestly, I think I received a defective product because though Jon claims there were no issues, it seemed to miraculously disappear after Jon replaced the components. Absolutely nothing changed on my setup. This wasn't an issue regarding warranty but receiving a defective product. All companies I know upon receiving a defective product will gladly pay for shipping both ways.

Jon left it at, "I'm not going to debate with you about this issue. If we paid for all returns, we'd be out of business." Considering all the hassle he put me through regarding shipping address changes, me having to drive a 1.5 hours to pickup up the speakers, and ignoring me for almost a month you'd think he could cover the $30.

I think this is an edge case issue that probably doesn't happen very often. It's these edge case issues that really challenges a company to think about how to handle and resolve an issue to make the customer happy. I firmly believe that The Audio Insider and Jon failed.

I personally will never buy from Jon again nor will I recommend them to anyone. He obviously is great when things go smoothly but once a really problem arises that isn't typical, his true colors come out.

Anyways, that was a very long review and I don't even know if it was valuable or if anyone will agree with me.

Thanks,

Michael
myfootsmells is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 61 Old 01-19-2012, 07:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jephdood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 1,124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Well there's 10 minutes I'll never get back. Why is this even here?? Ugh.

On first read, seems like he was accommodating and you are hard to please.

What's the whole spiel on the address thing? I don't get it. You got the product.

The time frames aren't unreasonable, nor are his responses to your increasingly curt emails.

I'm not sure what your intent is here, but Jon is well-respected in the audio and online business community.
jephdood is offline  
post #3 of 61 Old 01-19-2012, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
myfootsmells's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm sure he's a great guy, very well respected, and this was probably just a fluke but I'm still entitled to post my experience. I don't need people to agree with me, I just want people to be aware.

The address he sent the speakers to was quite a distant away. Had he told me he couldn't change it, I would have arranged for proper arrangements, but because I was under the impression that it was changed, it was just a big mess on my end.

His time frames were great very responsive except for when he went dark for a month and I openly admit my emails were curt.

However, I'm just upset that the speakers arrived in non-functioning order. It should be his responsibility to cover for shipping both ways. I myself own a business and when I ship something that is damaged or defective upon delivery, I immediately send a shipping label to the customer and arrange for pickup. My customers don't have to do anything except wait a little longer to enjoy their purchases.

Imagine if you purchased a TV and when you opened the box the screen didn't work. You'd be happy paying to have to ship it back? I knew Jon's shipping rates were better than mine, I even told him if there was nothing wrong I'd reimburse him for shipping, but he wouldn't compromise at all.

Maybe I'm expecting too much from Jon, but all I know is that when I deal with customers, I go above and beyond to make them happy.

Michael
myfootsmells is offline  
post #4 of 61 Old 01-19-2012, 07:28 PM
Advanced Member
 
bearchan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 537
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
This thread is a total waste of bandwidth.
bearchan is offline  
post #5 of 61 Old 01-19-2012, 07:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jon Lane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by jephdood View Post

Why is this even here?? Ugh.

And here I thought you couldn't fit half the LA phone book in a vBulletin post, jeph...

---

Short version:
  • Customer purchases well-regarded, well-reviewed product, individually 100% QC'ed by $100M, 20 yr old company.
  • Customer makes unusual demand of vender, vender complies at his risk. Customer unhappy.
  • At some point customer claims to notice a product issue.
  • Customer contacts ten year vendor, who knowing product well, walks though an in-field trouble-shoot, including awareness of likely failure modes and that product is individual quality-checked at plant and very, very rarely fails per claimed issue.
  • Customer elects to return product anyway, agreeing that under manufacturer's warranty inbound freight is not covered.
  • Hoping to be amenable to a solution with disgruntled customer, vendor agrees to cover freight anyway if product actually proves defective.
  • Product tests 100%. Vender tidies it up and returns it in mint condition and in a timely fashion prepaid.
  • Customer agrees product is 100%.

Time passes and customer makes renewed demands of vender for compensation, alludes to vender's reputation, eventually posts incomplete message on venders forum and elsewhere accusing things.

Vender would have preferred another course of action; customer prefers obsession.

---

In business it's said, the customer is always right, including when the customer is wrong. At TAI we've vended tens of thousands of pieces to almost as many customers and we pride ourselves foremost on simply being friendly to music lovers and audiophiles - I know that with a musical background running to birth, I'm in it for the sound and the music. It serves no need to get into a conflict with any one customer. Ears grow old too.

Here we send out free parts, make free service calls, support stuff we didn't supply, swap products at our expense and risk, and even sometimes deliver free product. All it's gotta do is pass the test of reasonableness. All it's ever gotta do is be reasonable. Need something? Phone or email. We're not perfect but we keep trying

But then there's that one-in-a-hundred...

Jon Lane
Chane Music & Cinema
Jon Lane is offline  
post #6 of 61 Old 01-19-2012, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
myfootsmells's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Yes I guess I'm that one in a hundred. It's fine, you have your side and I have mine. It was a mixture of bad luck then with how the shipping was handled and the speakers arriving defective.
[*]Customer elects to return product anyway, agreeing that under manufacturer's warranty inbound freight is not covered.

That's untrue though because you specifically said in your e-mail that there was a chance you'd covering freight. Do you deny this?

Look Jon, bottom line, I'm sure you're a great guy but what you wrote in your e-mails just contradicts what you say in others. This is what rubbed me the wrong way. Not once did you offer an apology just constant shift of responsibility to other people.

Michael

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Lane View Post

And here I thought you couldn't fit half the LA phone book in a vBulletin post, jeph...

---

Short version:
  • Customer purchases well-regarded, well-reviewed product, individually 100% QC'ed by $100M, 20 yr old company.
  • Customer makes unusual demand of vender, vender complies at his risk. Customer unhappy.
  • At some point customer claims to notice a product issue.
  • Customer contacts ten year vendor, who knowing product well, walks though an in-field trouble-shoot, including awareness of likely failure modes and that product is individual quality-checked at plant and very, very rarely fails per claimed issue.
  • Customer elects to return product anyway, agreeing that under manufacturer's warranty inbound freight is not covered.
  • Hoping to be amenable to a solution with disgruntled customer, vendor agrees to cover freight anyway if product actually proves defective.
  • Product tests 100%. Vender tidies it up and returns it in mint condition and in a timely fashion prepaid.
  • Customer agrees product is 100%.

Time passes and customer makes renewed demands of vender for compensation, alludes to vender's reputation, eventually posts incomplete message on venders forum and elsewhere accusing things.

Vender would have preferred another course of action; customer prefers obsession.

---

In business it's said, the customer is always right, including when the customer is wrong. At TAI we've vended tens of thousands of pieces to almost as many customers and we pride ourselves foremost on simply being friendly to music lovers and audiophiles - I know that with a musical background running to birth, I'm in it for the sound and the music. It serves no need to get into a conflict with any one customer. Ears grow old too.

Here we send out free parts, make free service calls, support stuff we didn't supply, swap products at our expense and risk, and even sometimes deliver free product. All it's gotta do is pass the test of reasonableness. All it's ever gotta do is be reasonable. Need something? Phone or email. We're not perfect but we keep trying

But then there's that one-in-a-hundred...

myfootsmells is offline  
post #7 of 61 Old 01-19-2012, 07:55 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
zieglj01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 10,718
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearchan View Post

This thread is a total waste of bandwidth.

He did the same thing at Audioholics - this thing is wild.
Jon and his company, have a good reputation.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
zieglj01 is online now  
post #8 of 61 Old 01-19-2012, 07:58 PM
Advanced Member
 
bearchan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 537
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Why? He has some kinda of vendetta against, Jon?
bearchan is offline  
post #9 of 61 Old 01-19-2012, 08:08 PM
Member
 
martinq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: ON, Canada
Posts: 81
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearchan View Post

Why? He has some kinda of vendetta against, Jon?

If the events occurred as detailed, it seems obvious that Jon (or someone at the company) dropped the ball. Why does the customer have to pay for this?
martinq is offline  
post #10 of 61 Old 01-19-2012, 08:08 PM
 
GSDTrainer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 530
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
And these are the days of our lives...
GSDTrainer is offline  
post #11 of 61 Old 01-19-2012, 08:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 6,483
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 756
I was actually hoping for a review of various products provided by Audio Insider. Instead a whine by someone who couldn't keep his own damn addresses straight (been there done that myself, btw, as I maintain multiple addresses for billing/shipping) and has too much time on his hands to post a "review".

BTW, Fedex isn't the shipper, Jon, you are. Fedex is a carrier (and one of your vendors). Until delivered it's still yours unless you sent it freight collect (you might review terms of sale and ownership that goes along with that). I don't have any issue with you shipping to the original address requested despite requests for and any attempts to fix, though. Fedex does suck a lot, too. My .02 for my 10 minutes.

lovinthehd is online now  
post #12 of 61 Old 01-19-2012, 08:09 PM
Member
 
Huttizo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Not sure why the negativity is towards "myfootsmells", but one thing obviously jumps out here.

"Product tests 100%. Vender tidies it up and returns it in mint condition and in a timely fashion prepaid."

"I asked that the amplifier board be replaced anyway, to be absolutely certain. Both boards measure identically and both were QC'd by Swan before shipping, one in your set of speakers and the other in our warranty parts reserve."

Those two comments doesn't add up. Product is fine yet replacements were made?
Huttizo is offline  
post #13 of 61 Old 01-19-2012, 09:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
N8DOGG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,698
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 285
The whole ordeal would never have happened if these companys would do a proper security check on CC's. If the addy doesn't match the CC, how the hell can it still go through?
The rest of the story is blah but I think these online companys need to be stricter on the rules.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

N8DOGG is online now  
post #14 of 61 Old 01-20-2012, 03:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Billy p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Markham,Ont
Posts: 1,249
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 167
My feeling here is most rules or laws benefit the retailer or seller and not so much the purchaser. I had some minor problems buying online and it woulda cost me outta pocket to things reslove it just they way things work IMO when buying online...

Old Indian proverb: We don't inherit the earth from our ancestors, but we borrow it from our children!

Ascend Acoustics (NrT)Towers, STC w RAAL, 200 SE in espresso
54" of Panasonic Bliss, Anthem MRX 300
Sony BDP-S380, TechnicsCD player, Apple TV
PSA XS30 SE in Cordovan Cherry
Billy p is offline  
post #15 of 61 Old 01-20-2012, 05:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Jon Lane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by myfootsmells View Post

...you have your side and I have mine.

Events transpired as I've noted them, including that the product was one hundred percent new, sealed, perfect, QC'd, functional, and technically correct and that TAI would agreed to pay return freight (not covered by manufacturer's warranty in any case) if it was not. It was not a "mixture of bad luck then with how the shipping was handled and the speakers arriving defective", which is incomplete at best and flatly untrue at worst. It was the customer expecting a vender to alter its decided security policy with regard to shipping, getting noisy about his weekend demands, then handshaking about service to a perfect product, and ultimately electing to extract monies out of that vender after the fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by myfootsmells View Post

That's untrue though because you specifically said in your e-mail that there was a chance you'd covering freight. Do you deny this?

I told you - who I'd begun to suspect might never be pleased at anything we did for you - what I've already indicated in this thread. Once we determined how you wanted things a firmer handshake was needed, which you elected to void, eventually doing all you've done since. I cannot see what we could have done differently, so variable were the demands and the narrative, and, as we naturally see, the outcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by myfootsmells View Post

Look Jon, bottom line, I'm sure you're a great guy but what you wrote in your e-mails just contradicts what you say in others. This is what rubbed me the wrong way. Not once did you offer an apology just constant shift of responsibility to other people.

Bottom liners have a way of never getting to the bottom line, which was my other post in this thread. At any rate, if you want to change your terms, again, write me here in this thread that if we send you money you'll finally be placated and our previous service handshake left unhonored - merchants are here to be run into corners and customers are always right.

Obviously I don't have the time or inclination for this and thirty bucks means I can get on with my day. Say that thirty dollars is your price and publish an address - either yours or that at acuteperformance, which I recall may be your corrected shipping address. This is my last note to you.

For the record and for the public, this gesture does not fall into the category of good customer relations at TAI, which I alluded to above. It does not make TAI pleased to not be able to have done a thing to please him throughout his campaign. It can't but rub us the wrong way ethically to agree to unique and undue public leveraging on its own terms, but I'll have a check issued. No other offer or agreement we've made him has been either accepted here - or even regarded in the incomplete record. Perhaps a payment will.

Jon Lane
Chane Music & Cinema
Jon Lane is offline  
post #16 of 61 Old 01-20-2012, 05:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Jon Lane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huttizo View Post

"Product tests 100%. Vender tidies it up and returns it in mint condition and in a timely fashion prepaid."

"I asked that the amplifier board be replaced anyway, to be absolutely certain. Both boards measure identically and both were QC'd by Swan before shipping, one in your set of speakers and the other in our warranty parts reserve."

Those two comments doesn't add up. Product is fine yet replacements were made?

By tidied up I meant routine diligence in service - having benched the product already we could ensure no damage in-use or in testing to the only portion of the amplifier sensitive to damage and relatively easy and inexpensive to replace.

Customer had claimed 60Hz hum, indicating a power supply filtering issue if true. The returned power supply was as noted: in new, perfect, as-spec'ed order. There was no hum, either audible or measured out of spec.

PSRR is a function of amplifier systems, but in the case of two identical properly functioning, high power chipset ICs, there is and was no difference in ripple. We checked.

The chips had nothing to do with 60Hz ripple rejection. PSRR is a function of the design. True hum is a function of failure in the power supply transformation or rectification, which were perfect.

Customer then acknowledged that in his setup this second time he got none of the hum he claimed in the first installation. Obviously I can't comment on his use or why this is the case. He's using the exact same speakers, minus new silicon.

Jon Lane
Chane Music & Cinema
Jon Lane is offline  
post #17 of 61 Old 01-20-2012, 05:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Jon Lane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

The whole ordeal would never have happened if these companys would do a proper security check on CC's. If the addy doesn't match the CC, how the hell can it still go through?
The rest of the story is blah but I think these online companys need to be stricter on the rules.

Agreed, and this is fodder for every merchant's caution in dealing with his authorization service. None are perfect, and all the merchant can do is use their approvals as-is, not making running changes to any element of any transaction and then expect to be able to go back on the authorization service if that change has a transaction go bad. In this case we agreed to violate our own policy, accept the risk, and try and please the customer.

No dice.

Jon Lane
Chane Music & Cinema
Jon Lane is offline  
post #18 of 61 Old 01-20-2012, 06:28 AM
 
GSDTrainer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 530
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I think people aren't realizing something here. And that is, while the OP clearly states that all times are PST what he doesnt state is that Jon's time is EST. So lets look at it from an EST point of view

Fri, 11/18 @ 11:28 AM (2:28 PM EST)
Order was received by The Audio Insider for a pair of Swan M200MKII Speakers

Fri, 11/18 @ 3:54 PM (6:54 PM EST)
Sent an email to The Audio Insider asking to change the shipping address since I had mistakenly entered the wrong one.

So the OP screws up his address and emails TAI at almost 7 PM EST on a Friday. How many people think that the OP is unreasonable thinking that his screw up should be fixed at that time on a Friday evening?

Sat, 11/19 @ 7:27 AM (10:27 AM EST)
I receive an email notification that my order status is "Processed"

Not bad less than a day to be processed but I am willing to bet that that is an automated process.

Sat, 11/19 @ 10:13 AM (1:13 PM EST)
Jon Lane sends me an email saying he'll update the address.

Not bad the owner of a company emailing a customer on a Saturday afternoon. I'd be impressed.

Mon, 11/21 @ 2:10 PM (5:10 PM EST)
I receive an email notification that my order status is "Shipped"

Wow a lil more than 1 business day to receive order, process order, and ship order. Damn thats pretty good in my book.

Mon, 11/21 @ 2:11 PM (5:11 PM EST)
I send an email to Jon to make sure the item is being mailed to the correct address.

Give the OP credit it only took him 60 seconds to receive an email that his order was shipped and send an email to TAI. Thats pretty darn quick

Mon, 11/21 @ 2:13 PM (5:13 PM EST)
Jon sends an email back, "We've instructed the warehouse to use the corrected address." Strange, I thought he had already changed the shipping address on Saturday.

Flash back to Saturday when Jon says he will update address (which I take to mean inform warehouse) and Jon says he instructed the warehouse. Do not know whats strange I never see any exchange here where Jon says he actually changed the address. Plus remember the address fiasco is the OP's fault and I bet TAI's warehouse is not open on a Saturday. Plus the owner of said company receives your email and sends a reply in 2 minutes, are you mad cause he was 60 seconds slower than you?

Mon, 11/21 @ 10:54 PM (1:54 AM EST Tuesday)
I send an email to Jon:

"Hi,

I don’t know what you need me to do -- granted it was my fault to begin with -- but I’ve contacted you twice about changing the shipping address -- once Fri, 11/18 and then again Mon, 11/21.

Both times Jon you have said you’d make the change for me and now when I track the package it says the destination is San Marino, CA.

What do I need to do here?"

Notice the bold part here and now go back and look at the time of his first email. 6:54 EST on a Friday evening. Then his email Monday AFTER the order has shipped. Maybe the OP should have picked up the phone and called to make sure the address was changed or even another email Monday morning BEFORE the order was shipped.

Tue, 11/22 @ 6:38 AM (9:38 AM EST)
I receive an email from Jon:

"Hi Michael,

I instructed the warehouse twice to change the address but according to your finding, apparently it's not been done. I'll call FedEx and make the change myself."

Asked his warehouse to correct the OPs SCREWUP twice but it did not get done. Understandable, the owner can not do everything and sometimes you do not have the brightest bulbs working in a warehouse. But said owner says he will call Fed-Ex personally and take care of it. Thats pretty good CS IMO.

Tue, 11/22 @ 11:30 AM (2:30 PM EST)
I receive another email from Jon:

"The delivery address has now been changed."

OK address is now changed owner took care of it himself.

Wed, 11/23 @ 3:02 PM (6:02 PM EST)
I sent an email to Jon saying the speakers were still being shipped to the wrong address and asked for a credit on shipping charges.
== I RECEIVE THE SPEAKERS HURRAY! ==

Still shipped to wrong address but still gets the speakers? Im scratching my head on this one.

Another point here the OP wants a credit for the shipping charges even though he is the one who screwed up and by the looks of the time line TAI has bent over backwards to accomodate him. Also you have to remember that he informed TAI on a Friday evening and the address screwup (the OP"S own fault) was trying to be corrected over a weekend. He received his speakers less than 2 days after they were shipped. I think thats pretty darn quick myself.


Thu, 11/24 @ 12:30 PM (It's a pretty loud buzz) its freakin thanksgiving!
I sent an email to Jon:

"Hello,

The speaker with the heatsink in the back, when I plug in the power and turn it on, there is a slight buzzing sound. Nothing else is plugged into it, no inputs, no cables, just power.

Turning the volume, bass, treble, does not change the volume or pitch of the buzz.

What are my options? Thanks.

Michael"
== I DON'T HEAR FROM JON FOR A COUPLE DAYS (THANKSGIVING)==

Sat, 11/26 @ 8:22 AM
Jon sends me an email asking if the buzzing is thorugh the speaker's drivers or is it a mechanical buzzing insde the speakers?
Sat, 11/26 @ 8:29 AM (This is where things get fishy)
Jon sends me an email:

"Hi Michael,

Let me explain our position on address changes, please, and then you can advise how you see the delivery.

First, as fraud-prevention, we have a policy that prevents running address changes. A customer could theoretically use an authorized credit card to clear the authorization service web sellers use and then switch addresses. I waived this for your order but it is actually our usual policy.

Second, running changes within FedEx are only sometimes effective - I estimate that fully half of them never occur. FedEx runs a highly automated delivery chain and all changes introduced into this chain are manual, making them very non-standard for them to have to deal with. We did everything we could to change the addredd mid-flight, but FedEx themselves simply could not comply.

Lastly, our final policy is that once the product clears our dock it naturally becomes the customer's property. Anything that happens to it from that point is the shippers responsibility, which in this case FedEx agrees to and bears.

All this said, I am more than willing to contact FedEx and see if I can get a credit to our corporate account and if so, to pass that credit on to you. Please give us a few days to work this out."

Here's why it's fishy. First, the billing/shipping address that was initially used was an old address that isn't even tied to the credit card I used to buy the speakers. Second, he mentions that the final policy is that once the product clears their dock it's out of their hands -- which I agree with. However, I specifically asked him to change the address BEFORE the speakers shipped and he even acknowledges that the address was changed BEFORE the speakers shipped. Finally, I never did hear from him about the credit.

OK This last part is a joke. The owner of TAI send you an email on the Saturday of what is usually a 4 day weekend for most people and explains about the address change. The owner can not take the order, process the order, ship the order all by himself. Is he directly responsible ? SURE, but by your own admission YOU SCREWED UP TO BEGIN WITH! Also I never see where he actually says that he changed the address. He informed his warehouse to try to fix YOUR SCREWUP!

I guarantee there was nothing wrong with the OP's speakers but he wanted credit for shipping charges and never got them. REMEMBER THIS IS THE OP'S SCREWUP! AND THAT THIS ALL TAKES PLACE FROM A FRIDAY EVENING INTO THE WEEKEND.

So it seems to me he wanted to ship them back to try to screw TAI out of some shipping money by making a false claim. He seems like a petulant child who didnt get his way and now is going to stomp his feet and throw a temper tantrum. Somebody needs a timeout and its not Jon!
GSDTrainer is offline  
post #19 of 61 Old 01-20-2012, 06:34 AM
 
GSDTrainer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 530
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
PS I am not affiliated with TAI at all and own none of their products. I am just an observer.
GSDTrainer is offline  
post #20 of 61 Old 01-20-2012, 06:50 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Chu Gai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: NYC area
Posts: 14,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Liked: 449
Well, the guy could've had some kind of a buzz. I once had an annoying sound that came from the back of my car. Every time I took it to the dealer, they couldn't detect it. One day when it was occurring, I drove straight to the dealer and had the service manager step into the car. He said that the annoying sound coming from the back was my mother in law. Duh.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
Chu Gai is online now  
post #21 of 61 Old 01-20-2012, 07:28 AM
Senior Member
 
monkuboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

The whole ordeal would never have happened if these companys would do a proper security check on CC's. If the addy doesn't match the CC, how the hell can it still go through?
The rest of the story is blah but I think these online companys need to be stricter on the rules.

Just to chime in about the credit card verification part of it - online companies for the most part do not do their own checking. I am pretty sure a company the size of Jon's would not do their own. Most use a credit card authorization service, such as Authorize.net, because that is their specialty.

From my own experience, the authorization services are a necessary layer but they are not foolproof. They only check for certain factors in the information and if those seem to be okay, they approve the transaction. My company has had several transactions that were fraudulent that were approved by Authorize.net. The thing is, even though they approve it, the merchant is on the hook if it is a fraudulent account. Authorize.net is not liable for anything. So you might wonder what is the point then, to which their answer is that they can't catch everything and every merchant takes on that risk when they decide to do business online.
monkuboy is offline  
post #22 of 61 Old 01-20-2012, 07:39 AM
Senior Member
 
Big Whitey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 354
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Jon,

Im in sales myself... not everyone can be pleased. I think you did everything in your power to please this customer, I would not worry about this slandering of your name.

To the OP, **** happens, this company bent over backwards for you whether you realize it or not. If there was a problem with your product, they fixed it in a timely manner. Your out $30 with a great pair of speakers, your lucky they didnt charge you for the change of address as there would be some administration costs associated with that for the company.

Sit back, relax and enjoy your music. Life's too short to get so tied up in things that will mean nothing down the road.

Going Deaf.... And Lovin' It
Big Whitey is offline  
post #23 of 61 Old 01-20-2012, 08:20 AM
Member
 
Phoenyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
First world problems...
Phoenyx is offline  
post #24 of 61 Old 01-20-2012, 08:52 AM
Advanced Member
 
bearchan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 537
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
so it seems to me he wanted to ship them back to try to screw tai out of some shipping money by making a false claim. he seems like a petulant child who didnt get his way and now is going to stomp his feet and throw a temper tantrum. Somebody needs a timeout and its not jon!

+1
bearchan is offline  
post #25 of 61 Old 01-20-2012, 09:10 AM
Advanced Member
 
its phillip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: fort worth, tx
Posts: 744
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 54
maybe. nevermind

its phillip is offline  
post #26 of 61 Old 01-20-2012, 10:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jephdood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 1,124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Bending over backwards for a customer doesn't matter much if they aren't satisfied until there's a snap of the spine.

My negativity toward the OP is because even though he got the issue worked out, he elected to go with a public smear campaign instead of moving on.

I don't think anything on Jon's end was unreasonable and certainly doesn't warrant this kind of attention.

JMHO.
jephdood is offline  
post #27 of 61 Old 01-20-2012, 01:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
chikoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,067
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
The real twist I see to OP's rant is that if Jon never replaced anything, but just told OP that he did replace so that OP can be at peace.
chikoo is offline  
post #28 of 61 Old 01-20-2012, 01:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
chikoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,067
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
By the way, never bend backwards for a customer who does not know how to appreciate how businesses are run.

I have had my share of customers (I am in the women specialty apparel biz), they would buy an expensive cocktail dress (>$200) for a party and return it. Just because they can. How fair is that to the retailer? I keep tabs on such customer on my POS system and there have been some where we clearly instructed never to shop with us again.
chikoo is offline  
post #29 of 61 Old 01-20-2012, 01:54 PM
Senior Member
 
madhuski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 353
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 19
not to pile on the OP, but I don't understand all the hulabaloo over the shipping address. given the speakers arrived in a timely fashion. (yes I get that fedex said they were shipping to the "wrong address" but it seems to be the shipper rectified it in a timely manner, no?)

Check out my WAF approved living room theater

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1526916/my...-1-living-room
madhuski is online now  
post #30 of 61 Old 01-20-2012, 02:47 PM
Member
 
aburkhardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
"One woman who frequently flew on Southwest, was constantly disappointed with every aspect of the company’s operation. In fact, she became known as the “Pen Pal” because after every flight she wrote in with a complaint.

She didn’t like the fact that the company didn’t assign seats; she didn’t like the absence of a first-class section; she didn’t like not having a meal in flight; she didn’t like Southwest’s boarding procedure; she didn’t like the flight attendants’ sporty uniforms and the casual atmosphere.

Her last letter, reciting a litany of complaints, momentarily stumped Southwest’s customer relations people. They bumped it up to Herb’s [Kelleher, CEO of Southwest] desk, with a note: ‘This one’s yours.’

In sixty seconds, Kelleher wrote back and said, ‘Dear Mrs. Crabapple, We will miss you. Love, Herb.’”

I'm going to venture a guess that you have swayed absolutely NO ONE against buying from this company. Kindly move on, and leave Jon to attend to more important matters that benefit the rest of us.
aburkhardt is offline  
Closed Thread Speakers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off