Could use some advice on a Speaker/Receiver combo - I'm new to this, thanks - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 01-20-2012, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I am starting to piece together a 5.1 setup. I have spent a lot of time over the past week doing my research and reading various reviews. I went to Best Buy and had the opportunity to demo several setups. After hearing a few different things I am leaning towards the Def Tech Procinema 1000s, PC 2000 (Center), and a Martin Logan sub. I was told by the salesman at best buy that the ML sub would produce better sound with less distortion than the PC 1000 sub. For reference, this setup would be 60/40 for Music/Movies. I am not a gamer in any way.

My question is around the Receiver. I have read very good good things about the Denon 1912. However, the salesman was steering me more toward a pioneer elite receiver. While in no way was he trying to convince me, he felt that Pioneer offered better ound quality and "Crispness" than Denon. He said the Denon had a tendency to sound " Softer" . I don't think he was reffering to DB level, but just a softer tone. That said, I am failry new to this and was wondering if anyone has any comments, or can point me to any posts for reference. Thanks for your help.
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post #2 of 25 Old 01-20-2012, 12:52 PM
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Not what you asked, but the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX subwoofer is on sale for $549 shipped until the end of the month. Here's a review:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...fm-1-ex-review

It is far better for HT than any of the subs BestBuy sells for $1000 or less, and it is very good for music. If that sounds crazy (and it might ) research about it and ask on the AVS subwoofer forum.

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post #3 of 25 Old 01-20-2012, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Not what you asked, but the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX subwoofer is on sale for $549 shipped until the end of the month. Here's a review:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...fm-1-ex-review

It is far better for HT than any of the subs BestBuy sells for $1000 or less, and it is very good for music. If that sounds crazy (and it might ) research about it and ask on the AVS subwoofer forum.

x2

The Def Tech PC1000 and PC2000 are not bad speakers but I wouldn't buy a subwoofer from best buy at their markup is way way to huge when 50% less money spent at an internet direct company will yield better results

Make sure to cross reference with prices versus best buy i found them a bit much at best buy.

The one thing I like about Pioneer receivers is their iPod/ipad app
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post #4 of 25 Old 01-20-2012, 01:15 PM
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+1

I didn't mean to imply those were bad subs. Just that something like the Martin Logan Dynamo 700 would be more reasonably priced below $400. The DefTech subs are similarly very high at their MSRP. Meanwhile, the Outlaw EX has a good price performance ratio even at its regular price.

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post #5 of 25 Old 01-20-2012, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback guys. By no means am I going to buy from Best Buy, I have found better prices on-line. But in order to hear these speakers first hand, Best Buy has a nice room for listening.

Any suggestion on a receiver to pair with this setup?
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post #6 of 25 Old 01-20-2012, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauly1 View Post

Thanks for the feedback guys. By no means am I going to buy from Best Buy, I have found better prices on-line. But in order to hear these speakers first hand, Best Buy has a nice room for listening.

Any suggestion on a receiver to pair with this setup?

When looking at a receiver you need to look at the features you want...

I am personally looking at the Denon AVR-1912 for my next receiver though if Poineer VSX-1121-k gets a good rating I might choose that as my apt is full of iPod/iPhone/iPad's
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post #7 of 25 Old 01-20-2012, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauly1 View Post

I have found better prices on-line. But in order to hear these speakers first hand, Best Buy has a nice room for listening.

Any suggestion on a receiver to pair with this setup?

Gee, I wonder why brick and mortars are shutting down. I've nothing against Internet direct - own Outlaw and Emotiva stuff - but using b&m to demo something you intend to buy online is the reason it is becoming increasingly difficult to find local demos.
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post #8 of 25 Old 01-20-2012, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauly1 View Post

I am starting to piece together a 5.1 setup. I have spent a lot of time over the past week doing my research and reading various reviews. I went to Best Buy and had the opportunity to demo several setups. After hearing a few different things I am leaning towards the Def Tech Procinema 1000s, PC 2000 (Center), and a Martin Logan sub. I was told by the salesman at best buy that the ML sub would produce better sound with less distortion than the PC 1000 sub. For reference, this setup would be 60/40 for Music/Movies. I am not a gamer in any way.

My question is around the Receiver. I have read very good good things about the Denon 1912. However, the salesman was steering me more toward a pioneer elite receiver. While in no way was he trying to convince me, he felt that Pioneer offered better ound quality and "Crispness" than Denon. He said the Denon had a tendency to sound " Softer" . I don't think he was reffering to DB level, but just a softer tone. That said, I am failry new to this and was wondering if anyone has any comments, or can point me to any posts for reference. Thanks for your help.

Whats your budget? I had the Procenter 2000/Promonitor 1000 and found it lacking after a while so went on a questo to find better sound these past few months.....

Check out my WAF approved living room theater

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1526916/my...-1-living-room
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post #9 of 25 Old 01-20-2012, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Budget is about 2k
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post #10 of 25 Old 01-20-2012, 04:35 PM
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For what it's worth, I am immensely pleased with the performance of the Velodyne VX10 and VX11 sub and it can be had for around $180 shipped. It has the quality to fill the room with deep sound without giving away it's location. That is something that I have found quite a few subs lacking, even from Velodyne itself.
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post #11 of 25 Old 01-20-2012, 04:56 PM
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To get back to your main question, Denons have a very good reputation for audio quality, and I don't think I've ever heard them called "soft" compared to the Pioneers (lol).

The Pioneer Elite series is known for being of excellent sound quality, and the VSX1121 uses similar amplification. When reviewed recently, the VSX1021 had underwhelming power output into 5 channels. The Denon 2112, which as the same amp section as the 1912, managed a lot more than the 1021. So I'd go with the 1912 before any of the Pioneer 1021 or lower models. Audyssey MultiEQ often gets the nod as being a little better than Pioneer's room correction software because it will EQ the sub, too.

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post #12 of 25 Old 01-20-2012, 04:57 PM
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If you are looking at the Denon 1912 I'd look at the 2112 as well. The price difference was $10 between these two models at Electronics Expo when my brother-in-law bought his a few weeks ago, I'd give them a call and see what they can do. FWIW, my brother in law is very happy with his 2112 and it has a few extra features in comparison to the 1912. In this price range, I would also suggest considering a unit with MultEQ XT which will Eq the sub and some of the competitors in this price without XT won't Eq a sub. The biggest--if not the only--difference in "sound quality" between the brands at this price point will be the room correct each model uses.

Edit: I just saw the post above, and I would concur with cel about Audyssey, although I was unaware that the Pioneer had an underwhelming amp section. That's another reason to get the Denon.
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post #13 of 25 Old 01-20-2012, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjackkrash View Post

I would also suggest considering a unit with MultEQ XT which will Eq the sub and some of the competitors in this price without XT won't Eq a sub.

MultiEQ has the same sub EQ as MutliEQ XT, but the XT version does have better EQ for the full range speakers (see the comparison chart at the bottom of this page).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjackkrash View Post

Edit: I just saw the post above, and I would concur with cel about Audyssey, although I was unaware that the Pioneer had an underwhelming amp section. That's another reason to get the Denon.

Surprised me to when I saw it. That's almost half of what the Denon puts out. Even the Denon 1612 is a much performer in the low budget range.

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post #14 of 25 Old 01-20-2012, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

MultiEQ has the same sub EQ as MutliEQ XT, but the XT version does have better EQ for the full range speakers (see the comparison chart at the bottom of this page).



Surprised me to when I saw it. That's almost half of what the Denon puts out. Even the Denon 1612 is a much performer in the low budget range.

Thanks for that link, that's a handy comparison chart.
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post #15 of 25 Old 01-20-2012, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Pauly1 View Post

Budget is about 2k

Just my opinion, but the lesson I've learned is "less is more"

Use your budget on a better 3.1 now, and ge the surrounds later (or get cheap stopgap surround now)

2k cold get you, for example,

Aperion verus grand bookshelves x 2
Aperion verus grand center
B stock of the 2: $1050

Outlaw ex: 549 shipped

That leaves oh around $400 do a receiver - look at accessories 4 less for a refurb (thy hav pretty good reviews) and you'll have a system much better than the pro cinema (IMO, having had both in my house)

Edited to add: just saw your mainl music. I don listen to any music - my opinion is for movies only

Check out my WAF approved living room theater

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1526916/my...-1-living-room
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post #16 of 25 Old 01-20-2012, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauly1 View Post

I am starting to piece together a 5.1 setup. I have spent a lot of time over the past week doing my research and reading various reviews. I went to Best Buy and had the opportunity to demo several setups. After hearing a few different things I am leaning towards the Def Tech Procinema 1000s, PC 2000 (Center), and a Martin Logan sub. I was told by the salesman at best buy that the ML sub would produce better sound with less distortion than the PC 1000 sub. For reference, this setup would be 60/40 for Music/Movies. I am not a gamer in any way.

My question is around the Receiver. I have read very good good things about the Denon 1912. However, the salesman was steering me more toward a pioneer elite receiver. While in no way was he trying to convince me, he felt that Pioneer offered better ound quality and "Crispness" than Denon. He said the Denon had a tendency to sound " Softer" . I don't think he was reffering to DB level, but just a softer tone. That said, I am failry new to this and was wondering if anyone has any comments, or can point me to any posts for reference. Thanks for your help.

How big is your room?
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post #17 of 25 Old 01-21-2012, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all th feedback guys. I will definitely consider all the suggestions made.

My room at the moment is abour 20 x 12 with 10' ceilings. However, I will probably be moving a house in the next year or 2 and have no idea what the room will like then. I forgot to mention that I am looking for system that could make the move to either a slightly larger or slightly smaller room. I know that might be impossible to do, but that's the situation. I just don't want to wait until I buy a house. As I said, that could be 2 years away.
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post #18 of 25 Old 01-21-2012, 01:39 PM
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Pauly, I'll have to echo Madhuski on trying the Aperions. I have had my Grands for a couple of months now and absolutely love them. I have been listening to a lot of music through mine with HT mixed in and I can tell you they sound spectacular. The clarity and definition are great. With your budget you may want to try the Forte line, best thing I can tell you to do is give them a call and tell them what you are trying to achieve and your budget. They can help you set up a great system, knowledgeable and friendly staff will do right by you. I can't speak to other choices as I did a lot of looking last year and went with Aperion for my first foray into good speakers. I haven't been disappointed.
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post #19 of 25 Old 01-21-2012, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. I had not heard of Aperion, but in the quick research I have just done they seem to get fantastic reviews. Any idea where I can hear them?

I like the suggestion about starting with a 3.1 and adding on later. As this will be more fore music than movies, that seems to make a lot of sense. Thanks.
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post #20 of 25 Old 01-21-2012, 04:48 PM
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With your budget, it can be worthwhile to narrow it down to two brands and then just buy a pair of each and try them in your house for a week or so. How speakers are setup in a store is different from how they may sound in your home, and I personally believe you have to "get in bed" with speakers for a while to really assess them well. So if you narrow down to two brands off the Internet, you are out $40 to ship one pair back. Small price to pay in putting together a good system.

Two other brands to consider. Energy RC-10s and RC-LCR for the center get a lotta love on this forum. I have the RC-10s, and they are a great value. Learn more and ask questions in the Energy Owners Thread.

Ascend Acoustics CMT-340 SEs are very popular, partially because they come with an exact matching center that is the same speaker, just with the tweeter adjusted for horizontal speaker placement. Exact matching speakers create the best front sound stage. Their HTM-200 or CBM-170s can be used for the rear. See the Ascend SE Owner's Thread.

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post #21 of 25 Old 01-21-2012, 08:23 PM
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Pauly, only one place to hear Aperions (unless you live near Portland), and that is in your home. Aperion has a 30 day in home trial. They have free shipping to your home and if you are not COMPLETELY satisfied they will even pay for return shipping. A lot of ID speaker companies have 30 day trials and free shipping to you, but few if any others will pay for return. Like I said call them, figure out which speakers you want and place an order. 30 day trial starts when order gets to you. If you aren't satisfied send them back. At most you are out the time it takes to unpack, set up, listen to, and repack. This policy was one of the reasons I ordered mine. I obviously didn't send mine back.
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post #22 of 25 Old 01-22-2012, 05:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, I will give them a call when I'm ready.

I do have a question for you guys about the Forte Satellites vs the Versus Grand Bookshelf. As I said, I am very new to high end speakers and don't have much basis for comparison. I'm also aware from my research that speakers will sound very different in a showroom than they do at home. What's the difference in sound quality between these two that justifies the difference in $.

For reference, in terms of what a newb considers pleasing to the ear, when I heard the procinema 1000s at Best Buy I was very impressed. As stated, the Versus Grands would probably sound better than the 1000s, but what about the Forte line? Would these be comparable, better, worse or just different than the deftech? Thanks.
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post #23 of 25 Old 01-22-2012, 10:11 AM
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Hey Pauly. I like you was a newb to all this last year. I did what you have probably done and went and listened to everything I could in my area. I then did a lot of research online, leading me to Aperion. They were very well reviewed. That being said I could afford the Grands so I went with them. Didn't really audition their other lines. Can't really speak to the difference from the Forte line or others from them. That's why I was saying for you to call them. You don't have to place an order, they will answer all questions you have with their expertise and give you time to figure out what you need/want. Very friendly, very knowledgeable that's why they are known as the Audio Gurus. If you don't wish to call them I would say go to the Aperion thread here and ask questions there. Hicks will answer any questions you have. (that's Jason, one of the gurus) I am just a satisfied customer helping to spread the word. Wish I had the answers for you but I don't. They also have a live chat option on their website if that works for ya.
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post #24 of 25 Old 01-23-2012, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Volfan, I will give them a call. Thanks for your help.
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post #25 of 25 Old 01-23-2012, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauly1 View Post

Volfan, I will give them a call. Thanks for your help.

Hey Pauly, the one other system to consider would be the Boston Acoustic VS 260 Bookshelf and VS 325 center. The line has gotten great reviews on various magazines, and Vann's has them on closeout. (They usually retail at $700 for a bookshelf and $899 for the center, Vann's is doing them at $260 and $325 respectively.)

I recently auditioned these and the Aperions....I thought both were fantastic but ended up keeping these.

They "killer" is that since they are discontinued, if you don't but a "5.0" set now, you might have trouble finding a matched set later on (might now be the biggest problem since I don't think its a big deal to have mismatched surrounds)

Check out my WAF approved living room theater

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1526916/my...-1-living-room
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