Can my speakers handle the power of my new sub? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 21 Old 01-21-2012, 11:15 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
skichiiwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 89
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Am i getting too much sub for my speakers. the sub is so freaking big.

bought a outlaw lfm-1 ex

own def tech UIW RLS III In-Wall Reference Line Source Speakers as fronts.

onkyo 609

thanks
skichiiwa is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 Old 01-22-2012, 04:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ericthemidget's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,289
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by skichiiwa View Post

Am i getting too much sub for my speakers. the sub is so freaking big.

bought a outlaw lfm-1 ex

own def tech UIW RLS III In-Wall Reference Line Source Speakers as fronts.

onkyo 609

thanks

No, you are fine. Set the crossover @100hz and it should blend well
Ericthemidget is offline  
post #3 of 21 Old 01-22-2012, 05:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
psgcdn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Prov. of Quebec, Canada
Posts: 4,422
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 190
Nice!

Why 100 Hz Eric? I see the speakers are rated to 24 Hz (a bit hard to believe, but anyway) so the standard 80 Hz should be okay.

psgcdn is online now  
post #4 of 21 Old 01-22-2012, 05:42 AM
Member
 
pixel*entity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
From the Definitive Tech page :
UIW RLS III :Specifications
Outer Flange Dimensions | Metric :7 W x 25 H | 17.8 x 63.5 cm
Cut Out Dimensions | Metric :5-7/8 W x 23-3/4 H | 14.9 x 60.3 cm
Depth from Flange | Metric :3-13/16 | 9.7 cm
Driver Complement :One 1" pure aluminum dome tweeters; Two 5-1/4" cast-basket bass/midrange drivers pressure coupled to two 5-1/4 bass radiators
Frequency Response :24 Hz - 30 kHz
Impedance :Compatible with 8 Ohm outputs
Sensitivity :92 dB
Recommended Associated Amplifier Power :10 - 325 watts
A/V Receiver Crossover Setting :60 Hz
Inputs :One pair of gold plated spring loaded posts
pixel*entity is offline  
post #5 of 21 Old 01-22-2012, 06:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
chashint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,668
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Frequency Response :24 Hz – 30 kHz
Baloney !!!!
The Supercubes are not even flat to 24Hz.

Regardless of the recommended crossover IMHO 80 or 100Hz would be much more appropriate.

Regards,
Charlie

chashint is offline  
post #6 of 21 Old 01-22-2012, 07:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Mupi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,063
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

Nice!

Why 100 Hz Eric? I see the speakers are rated to 24 Hz (a bit hard to believe, but anyway) so the standard 80 Hz should be okay.

DefTech is well known for putting ridiculous specs for their speakers. Heck, even their tiny Promonitors can go down to the 20's according to the idiots at their marketing dept. Either put the corrects specs or dont put anything at all.
Mupi is offline  
post #7 of 21 Old 01-22-2012, 07:54 AM
Advanced Member
 
cjsiv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 673
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Also, Audyssey on the Onkyo should give you a nice starting point with the sub level. Mine on my Denon does a pretty good job of keeping the bass appropriate. I think there is no such thing as too much sub. Enjoy that new Outlaw!

cjsiv is offline  
post #8 of 21 Old 01-22-2012, 08:00 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,255
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 644
When configuring the EX, set the gain (volume) on the back of the sub to about 9 or 10 o'clock on the dial. Run Audyssey. If Audyssey sets the channel (trim) subwoofer level on the receiver to below -3db or above +3db, adjust the gain on the sub appropriately and run Audyssey again. Repeat until you end up with Audyssey setting the gain in the -3db to +3db range, even if you have to turn the gain on the sub down further than you think. Then, you can bump the sub channel level a couple db if you need more bass. After running Audyssey, make sure your speakers are set to small (not large or full range) and try different crossovers. I'd go with 80hz first, but try 100hz and 60hz, too. Use whichever sounds best to you.

cel4145 is online now  
post #9 of 21 Old 01-22-2012, 08:33 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
craig john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 10,244
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

When configuring the EX, set the gain (volume) on the back of the sub to about 9 or 10 o'clock on the dial. Run Audyssey. If Audyssey sets the channel (trim) subwoofer level on the receiver to below -3db or above +3db, adjust the gain on the sub appropriately and run Audyssey again. Repeat until you end up with Audyssey setting the gain in the -3db to +3db range, even if you have to turn the gain on the sub down further than you think. Then, you can bump the sub channel level a couple db if you need more bass. After running Audyssey, make sure your speakers are set to small (not large or full range) and try different crossovers. I'd go with 80hz first, but try 100hz and 60hz, too. Use whichever sounds best to you.

Why do you think it's important to be in the +/- 3 range? I would rather be at -6 than +3. If you start at +3 and you want to bump the levels a little bit, you have to go more positive. You then run the risk of overdriving the input on the sub amp, causing distortion. If you start at -6 and you add 3, you're still at -3. Seems like a safer choice to me.

Craig

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System

craig john is offline  
post #10 of 21 Old 01-22-2012, 08:37 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,255
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Why do you think it's important to be in the +/- 3 range? I would rather be at -6 than +3. If you start at +3 and you want to bump the levels a little bit, you have to go more positive. You then run the risk of overdriving the input on the sub amp, causing distortion. If you start at -6 and you add 3, you're still at -3. Seems like a safer choice to me.

Craig

This is the general advice that is often given in the Outlaw Owners Thread and seems to work for people. Go argue with them

cel4145 is online now  
post #11 of 21 Old 01-22-2012, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
skichiiwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 89
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ok thanks for the setup info guys , I'll start that when the sub get here. However I still want to know if I could get away with less sub is this overkill ?
skichiiwa is offline  
post #12 of 21 Old 01-22-2012, 09:59 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,255
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 644
You could buy an Epik Legend or Rythmik FV12 for just a little more (because of the shipping) and they'll have a less overall output and a little less low end extension, but maybe a little better SQ for music.

Below the $500 price point that gets you into this class of 12" ID subs made by Epik, Rythmik, Outlaw, and HSU, the 12" ported budget subs available generally have reduced sound quality, less low frequency extension, and not very flat frequency response. You could buy a 10" ported HSU or Outlaw ID sub in the $400 to $500 range that would have decent sound quality--better than the budget 12" subs--but they wouldn't have the same low frequency extension for movies as the EX and they might be challenged in your room space because of the lower SPL (volume output)--depends on how big your room is. Also, you should check. My guess is that the EX would have a little better SQ than those 10" ID subs

cel4145 is online now  
post #13 of 21 Old 01-22-2012, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
skichiiwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 89
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
mainly talking size of this beast the outlaw lfm1 ex. its huge . May have issues hiding it. haha.
skichiiwa is offline  
post #14 of 21 Old 01-22-2012, 12:38 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,255
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 644
Keep in mind that even a very good sub can perform poorly in some spots in a room. If your placement options require hiding, it may not do as well as in other positions. This is why people recommend doing the sub crawl to find the best spot.

cel4145 is online now  
post #15 of 21 Old 01-22-2012, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
skichiiwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 89
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by skichiiwa View Post

mainly talking size of this beast the outlaw lfm1 ex. its huge . May have issues hiding it. haha.

you shoulda started off as too add to your issues. I only have 2 locations where this beast can go front left front right otherwise it is a coffee table or side table.

also is there any literature or guide for dummies to understand how to do calibrate the sub .

also what do you listen for during a sub crawl?

noob i know...lol
skichiiwa is offline  
post #16 of 21 Old 01-22-2012, 12:51 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,255
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by skichiiwa View Post

you shoulda started off as too add to your issues. I only have 2 locations where this beast can go front left front right otherwise it is a coffee table or side table.

If you mean as a side table near the listening position, then one of these two locations generally works well. The sub crawl can tell you which is better. Also, even moving the sub a couple of feet one way or the other can make a difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skichiiwa View Post

also is there any literature or guide for dummies to understand how to do calibrate the sub .

Read all but part III (that's for dual sub setup)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14456895

Quote:
Originally Posted by skichiiwa View Post

also what do you listen for during a sub crawl?

See the sub crawl link I gave you,

"Play a bass heavy CD or other format (not 8 track!) that you are familiar with and turn the volume up so that the sub is really working."

cel4145 is online now  
post #17 of 21 Old 01-22-2012, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
skichiiwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 89
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

If you mean as a side table near the listening position, then one of these two locations generally works well. The sub crawl can tell you which is better. Also, even moving the sub a couple of feet one way or the other can make a difference.



Read all but part III (that's for dual sub setup)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14456895



See the sub crawl link I gave you,

"Play a bass heavy CD or other format (not 8 track!) that you are familiar with and turn the volume up so that the sub is really working."

thanks bud!
skichiiwa is offline  
post #18 of 21 Old 01-22-2012, 03:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
chashint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,668
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Why do you think it's important to be in the +/- 3 range? I would rather be at -6 than +3. If you start at +3 and you want to bump the levels a little bit, you have to go more positive. You then run the risk of overdriving the input on the sub amp, causing distortion. If you start at -6 and you add 3, you're still at -3. Seems like a safer choice to me.

Craig

Well it would be best to have it at 0dB trim but it seems like it's too much to ask of people to put that much effort into it hence the +/-3dB.

Regards,
Charlie

chashint is offline  
post #19 of 21 Old 01-22-2012, 03:50 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
craig john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 10,244
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by chashint View Post

Well it would be best to have it at 0dB trim...

Why? What is the downside of a negative trim setting?

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System

craig john is offline  
post #20 of 21 Old 01-22-2012, 08:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
chashint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,668
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 38
0 is typically right in the middle of the range so it should be the most linear.
If the trim is set- the gain of the sub is set higher tham necessary and again less linear.
Like all things its not Gospel, it's a good starting point.

Regards,
Charlie

chashint is offline  
post #21 of 21 Old 01-23-2012, 08:34 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
craig john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 10,244
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by chashint View Post

0 is typically right in the middle of the range so it should be the most linear.
If the trim is set- the gain of the sub is set higher tham necessary and again less linear.
Like all things its not Gospel, it's a good starting point.

Linear? It's a volume control.

What would be less "linear" at -6 or -8 than at 0?

What would be less "linear" with a higher gain setting on the subwoofer amp?

Craig

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System

craig john is offline  
Reply Speakers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off