Huge room setup, need some help - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 01-22-2012, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello all,

So I just purchased a new home and I am looking to setup a new system in the living room for mainly music and the occasional HT.

Currently I have the following which I would like to keep in the setup or use as secondary components if possible.

Onkyo TX-NR709
2 Polk Monitor 70's
Polk PSW 505

I listen to a lot of rap/techno/dance/dupstep type music so bass is very important (I am not sure if I have ever heard a system that had to much bass for me)

The room is huge in my opinion.
Living room is 15x20 with about 20 foot ceilings, which opens up into the dining room which is about 14x12 and the kitchen is right next to that which is 20 x 15, the staircase comes down into the living room which opens up to a pretty open hallway that is wide open into the hallway I mentioned earlier. As you can imagine its a pretty open floor plan which I love but might not be the best for music.

I dont have a budget exactly, I would just like to keep sub(s), amps, speakers under $4,000. Also I would like to invest the most in amps/front channel speakers/ and subs if its best and then added the surround sound speakers later when money permits. I really love Emotiva amps for the price, I dont mind Polk speakers, but I am not very happy with the Pol subwoofer I have had. I does not appear to hit the lows very hard and feels loose

ANY suggestions/help would be great, especially since I would like to do this right the first time around.

Thanks.
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post #2 of 27 Old 01-22-2012, 06:53 PM
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Welcome to the forum!!


I've got a pair of M70's as well, very nice speaker, I also have the step up receiver as you with the 807.

Unless you're doing the high end polk subs, you need not apply. I messed around and got myself an Epik Empire sub, this thing is AWESOME!!! I'll give you the link so you can take a look. Not badly priced and you get quite a punch. Theres a lot of killer subs out there and this isn't the best but it sure does deliver.

http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/

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post #3 of 27 Old 01-22-2012, 07:08 PM
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^^
Ditto on the Empire. But you might need two.

Not too much bass? You posted in the wrong forum, especially if you like rap/techno/dance/dupstep. You should be discussing this in the AVS subwoofer forum with the people who know bass

Look at the HSU website (HSU is one of the top subwoofer brands) and click on the loudness icon with their products. You'll see that even their top rated 12" sub, the VTF-3 MK4, is only recommended in rooms up to 6,000 cubic feet. You have a single room that size opening to others. Meanwhile, the PSW505 might (but doubtful) have as much output as the smaller VTF-2 MK4, and it certainly doesn't have the SQ or low frequency extension for HT.

So, depending on whether or not you want serious bass, you could easily spend $1000 to $2000 for a sub for that space. I think you should go do your research and ask questions in the subwoofer forum, first, and then make decision about how much of your budget to put towards the sub before talking about speakers. Here's a good post to start with: SHOOTOUT! Epik Empire vs HSU VTF-15H vs CHT CS18.1 vs Rythmik FV15 vs eD A7s-450

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post #4 of 27 Old 01-22-2012, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff4RFC View Post

Welcome to the forum!!


I've got a pair of M70's as well, very nice speaker, I also have the step up receiver as you with the 807.

Unless you're doing the high end polk subs, you need not apply. I messed around and got myself an Epik Empire sub, this thing is AWESOME!!! I'll give you the link so you can take a look. Not badly priced and you get quite a punch. Theres a lot of killer subs out there and this isn't the best but it sure does deliver.

Thanks for the reply and the suggestions on the Epik's, I had not checked these out. I like the M70's so far, at least the highs seem really clear but I had been looking into the RTI9's for example and was not sure how they compared to these. A thought I had was to buy something such as the RTI9's and move the m70's to be rear speakers.
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post #5 of 27 Old 01-22-2012, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

^^
Ditto on the Empire. But you might need two.

Not too much bass? You posted in the wrong forum, especially if you like rap/techno/dance/dupstep. You should be discussing this in the AVS subwoofer forum with the people who know bass

Look at the HSU website (HSU is one of the top subwoofer brands) and click on the loudness icon with their products. You'll see that even their top rated 12" sub, the VTF-3 MK4, is only recommended in rooms up to 6,000 cubic feet. You have a single room that size opening to others. Meanwhile, the PSW505 might (but doubtful) have as much output as the smaller VTF-2 MK4, and it certainly doesn't have the SQ or low frequency extension for HT.

So, depending on whether or not you want serious bass, you could easily spend $1000 to $2000 for a sub for that space. I think you should go do your research and ask questions in the subwoofer forum, first, and then make decision about how much of your budget to put towards the sub before talking about speakers. Here's a good post to start with: SHOOTOUT! Epik Empire vs HSU VTF-15H vs CHT CS18.1 vs Rythmik FV15 vs eD A7s-450

Thanks for the suggestions, I went ahead and posted in the sub-woofer thread, shall see what those guys have to say. I dont mind spending a larger chunk of money on the subs as I know to me those are one of the most important pieces. I suppose I could also do something such as buy 1 and add another later, at one point I had envisioned 4 subwoofers for the room with one being in each corner. I had not though about cubic feet of the room so you are right, my living room alone is 6000sq feet.

I think another thing I need to think about is power. I believe the living room is on two different 15 amp breakers so assuming I dont wanna go over 80% load, I have about 2800-2900 watts of power to play with.
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post #6 of 27 Old 01-22-2012, 07:48 PM
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You'll be fine on power! I'm running to ex's plus all my gear on two 15 amp outlets and all has been well. Might be the same circuit

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

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post #7 of 27 Old 01-22-2012, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

You'll be fine on power! I'm running to ex's plus all my gear on two 15 amp outlets and all has been well. Might be the same circuit

People assume a 300 RMS, 1000 watt peak subwoofer can use 1000 watts of power. But as I understand it (and this a question for the AVS sub forum), the extra wattage comes from the current in the capacitors stored up by the amplifier--it's for quick dynamic peaks. So the actual current draw is related to the 300watt RMS output.

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post #8 of 27 Old 01-23-2012, 10:19 AM
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heres a suggestion take a look at chase home theater. 5 of their sho s-10 speakers and 18" passive sub and sub amp all for under $3000 these can get loud without alot of power.might save you some money on amp side. just my 2 cents

i'm so laid back,i'm laid out
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post #9 of 27 Old 01-23-2012, 12:13 PM
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If you are not going to be adding acoustic room treatment panels to the side wall reflection points, you should focus on constant directivity designs that focus more of the sound at the listeners and less splash on the sidewalls.

The Chase Home Theater speakers mentioned above, or others like JTR Triple 8 will have the sensitivity you need for a such a big place.

I have a list of more sensitive speakers.
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post #10 of 27 Old 01-23-2012, 08:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like for the subs I will be going with two FV15HP's. Any suggestions on a set of loudspeakers for the front that would match these subs well?
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post #11 of 27 Old 01-23-2012, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by systrex View Post

Looks like for the subs I will be going with two FV15HP's. Any suggestions on a set of loudspeakers for the front that would match these subs well?

So you are going to spend over $2000 for 2 subs, with a $4000
budget for amps, speakers and subwoofer?

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post #12 of 27 Old 01-23-2012, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

So you are going to spend over $2000 for 2 subs, with a $4000
budget for amp, speakers and subwoofer?

You don't hang out with the bass loving sub crowd much, do you Jim?

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post #13 of 27 Old 01-23-2012, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

You don't hang out with the bass loving sub crowd much, do you Jim?

I like bass - however, I want good all around balanced speakers, to go
with it. He will have lots of bass!

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post #14 of 27 Old 01-23-2012, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

So you are going to spend over $2000 for 2 subs, with a $4000
budget for amps, speakers and subwoofer?

Correct, so that leaves me with about 2k for a set of speakers and an amp.
I had looked into the Emotiva xpa-2 which will run me about 800 so that leaves me roughly 1200 or so for a set of front speakers. I had looked into the Polk RTi9's but not sure if there are better options for around 1k.
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post #15 of 27 Old 01-23-2012, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

I like bass - however, I want good all around balanced speakers, to go
with it. He will have lots of bass!

Can never have to much bass
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post #16 of 27 Old 01-23-2012, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by systrex View Post

Can never have to much bass

With the music that you enjoy and your room size, and with the
remaining budget - the Polk Rti9 or Klipsch RF82 - the treble of
the Polk RTi series, is easier on my ears.

Klipsch RF 82
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it..._c=site_search
http://www.jr.com/klipsch/pe/KLP_RF82II/

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post #17 of 27 Old 01-23-2012, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

I like bass - however, I want good all around balanced speakers, to go
with it. He will have lots of bass!

He also has a 6,000 cubic feet of living room that opens into lots of other areas that could easily double the space. I suggested he might start with one, but he wants two (partially because of the 10% discount), and that's a not unreasonable for that kind of space. Heck. I understand. I have an Outlaw EX in my living room that is part of 6,000 cubic feet, and I really want a second one to do it right

systrex: Eyleron suggested you look at high sensitivity speakers given your big living room. For example, the Chase Home Theater speakers he suggested have 97db sensitivity; I would imagine that your Polks have 90db or so. That means for the same volume that produces 90db with the Polks, you get 97db with the CHO speakers. Considering you have to double the wattage from an amp to a speaker to get 3db more, high sensitivity speakers will definitely help you achieve more volume along with the amp you want to buy if volume is one of your primary goals.

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post #18 of 27 Old 01-23-2012, 09:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


He also has a 6,000 cubic feet of living room that opens into lots of other areas that could easily double the space. I suggested he might start with one, but he wants two (partially because of the 10% discount), and that's a not unreasonable for that kind of space. Heck. I understand. I have an Outlaw EX in my living room that is part of 6,000 cubic feet, and I really want a second one to do it right

systrex: Eyleron suggested you look at high sensitivity speakers given your big living room. For example, the Chase Home Theater speakers he suggested have 97db sensitivity; I would imagine that your Polks have 90db or so. That means for the same volume that produces 90db with the Polks, you get 97db with the CHO speakers. Considering you have to double the wattage from an amp to a speaker to get 3db more, high sensitivity speakers will definitely help you achieve more volume along with the amp you want to buy if volume is one of your primary goals.

Thanks cel, makes a lot more sense. Ill check into the chase speakers
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post #19 of 27 Old 01-24-2012, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I think I can swing the following... but curious what are the main differences between the JTR Quintuple and the JTR Triple 8HT, worth the money difference? any major performance differences?
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post #20 of 27 Old 01-24-2012, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by systrex View Post

I think I can swing the following... but curious what are the main differences between the JTR Quintuple and the JTR Triple 8HT, worth the money difference? any major performance differences?

Have you been over to the thread - they will answer your question.
Go big now - keep from upgrading later.

Go here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...t=jtr+official
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...icial&page=121

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post #21 of 27 Old 01-24-2012, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

Have you been over to the thread - they will answer your question.
Go big now - keep from upgrading later.

Go here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...t=jtr+official
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...icial&page=121


I have not, I went and posted over there now. Its a lot more money once you take into account the amps needed, so thats why I am wondering if its worth it vs something like the speakers you posted earlier.
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post #22 of 27 Old 01-24-2012, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by systrex View Post

I have not, I went and posted over there now. Its a lot more money once you take into account the amps needed, so thats why I am wondering if its worth it vs something like the speakers you posted earlier.

I do not have experience with JTR, or the SHO-10 > the SHO-10
should do a good job in your room. Also just for info, the Klipsch
RF-82 is rated at 98 db sensitive.

This is JTR contact info

Customer Support
847-714-6878
sales@jtrspeakers.com

Tech Support
847-714-6878
jeff@jtrspeakers.com

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post #23 of 27 Old 01-24-2012, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

I do not have experience with JTR, or the SHO-10 > the SHO-10
should do a good job in your room. Also just for info, the Klipsch
RF-82 is rated at 98 db sensitive.

This is JTR contact info

Customer Support
847-714-6878
sales@jtrspeakers.com

Tech Support
847-714-6878
jeff@jtrspeakers.com

I am very shocked by the lower power needs of the SHO-10's
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post #24 of 27 Old 01-24-2012, 07:37 PM
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Chase also has a forum at their website for discussing their speakers: http://www.chasehometheater.com/foru...isplay.php?f=7

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post #25 of 27 Old 01-25-2012, 03:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smasher50 View Post

heres a suggestion take a look at chase home theater. 5 of their sho s-10 speakers and 18" passive sub and sub amp all for under $3000 these can get loud without alot of power.might save you some money on amp side. just my 2 cents

get cheap 7.1 or 7.2 avr (upgrade later) and 2 -18" subs just a little over budget but damm sure it will fill your house with sound

i'm so laid back,i'm laid out
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post #26 of 27 Old 02-29-2012, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by smasher50 View Post

get cheap 7.1 or 7.2 avr (upgrade later) and 2 -18" subs just a little over budget but damm sure it will fill your house with sound

Why would I get a cheap 7.1 and 7.1 when I need amps anyway? a decent AVR that has pre-outs is going to run 400-600 anyway, I might as well buy a decent audio/video processor (which I ended up doing, the UMC-1 for 325 and still has 4 years of warranty (love craigslist). I ended up getting the UMC-1, two Rythmik FV15HP subs, emotiva xpa3 and xpa2, and I am still looking for speakers. My thoughts are on 3 JTR 12HT's for the front L/C/R
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post #27 of 27 Old 02-29-2012, 06:18 PM
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You said in response to being steered to the JTR threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by systrex View Post

I have not, I went and posted over there now. Its a lot more money once you take into account the amps needed, so thats why I am wondering if its worth it vs something like the speakers you posted earlier.

I'm not sure what you meant by that. Did you think that you needed "more amp for bigger speakers" (a common misconception, since it depends on the sensitivity)?

In the case of JTR Triple 8's, you'd be fine with LESS amp: like 1w average and 20w for peaks, if you were listening 5dB below reference level.
Or 100w for the highest peaks if you do want reference level (sitting 12 feet away in a well-treated room).

Quote:
Originally Posted by systrex View Post

I am very shocked by the lower power needs of the SHO-10's

Here it's apparent you realize how little power you'll need with these speakers.

So I'd think you'd want to get the speakers first, and then the amps?

But then again, there's nothing wrong with overkill, headroom, and the satisfaction of cool gear.

Congrats on your purchases. The extra 3dB of output you'll get from the amps mean that you can look for speakers that are 3dB less sensitive than what you may have considered before. For instance instead of a 97dB CHT Sho-10, it could be a 94dB speaker.

I just wish there were more in the medium-high sensitivity category.
At least Elemental Designs eD[c]6 are in that category at 93dB anechoic.
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