What In-wall LCR speakers should I use? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 01-23-2012, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I am currently in the process of finishing up my home theater install. I have a couple of speaker questions.

First off I'm looking for some opinions on front inwall LCR speakers for behind my screen.

I am also in need of advise on some rear surrounds, thinking I'm going to go with dipoles on the sides of the seating area since the couch is right against the back wall.

Room dimensions are 18 feet wide in the front where the screen is, and 17' long. The screen is 165" and is acoustically transparent.

Hoping that someone can help me out on this one.

thanks in advance
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post #2 of 34 Old 01-23-2012, 06:51 PM
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Budget?

I would do three Definitive RLS II across the front and two Definitive RSS II for side surround, if you are ok with bipole surrounds. Buy them from ebay seller bajawaverunner, which is the official Definitive ebay store.

If you really want dipoles on the side, I would get these Niles inwalls from ebay seller gear4less - they are dipole/bipole switchable and a fantastic deal at $499 for a pair:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Niles-IW770F...ht_3862wt_1296

Get closed back inwalls, whatever you decide.
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post #3 of 34 Old 01-23-2012, 06:52 PM
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I have been researching this for a few months. There are many choices, what is your budget?

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The MARVELous Home Theater: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...e-theater.html
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post #4 of 34 Old 01-23-2012, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I would say about $1200 for the fronts and $500 for the rears.

Do you guys have any experience with any of the Atlantic tech LCR or Dipole/Bipole in walls?

My supplier carries Atlantic Tech, Niles, Polk audio, boston acoustics, current audio, Artison.

I can get a pair of the AT WTS14SRP Bi-pole dipole for just under $500 and AT WTS155LCR THX Dual 5 /14" In-Wall LCR Speaker for $350 ea.

Just wondering if this would be a good combination.

I have yet to purchase a home theater receiver. My budget on this would probably be in around $1000.
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post #5 of 34 Old 01-23-2012, 09:43 PM
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I just recently installed Definitive Technology RLS II speakers behind my AT screen and am really impressed with them:
http://www.definitivetech.com/Produc...UIW%20RLS%20II

I had to use the RSS in-ceiling surrounds, but Deftech makes onwall bipolar speakers as well. I am using onwall BP2X for my rear speakers.

One thing to consider, I recommend buying inwall speakers that have engineered enclosures vs the open baffle type like the Atlantic's you mentioned. Atlantic does make enclosed speakers, but they are going to cost considerably more. For some understanding why enclosed speakers:

http://www.cepro.com/article/how_to_...peaker_systems

What are you considering for a subwoofer? I would reconsider your budget for your receiver and spend about $500 or so and it that savings toward your speaker budget.

I would also recommend looking into the Episode speaker line:

http://www.episodespeakers.com/produ...-Woofers-(Each)

I have heard good things about these and I do like ribbon tweeters, but I am not sure if they are in your budget.
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The episode 900s are $1199 per speaker list price, but I don't know what actual selling prices are.

Those AT are nice but you have to use the separate backbox if you want them to meet THX spec and the backbox is really only useful for new construction, not retrofit, because it is big.

Also, since you will only be using one set of surrounds, you should think about also using wide or height speakers. May as well since you will have two (or four) channels of your seven (or nine) channel receiver unused otherwise.
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post #7 of 34 Old 01-24-2012, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LESS View Post

I would say about $1200 for the fronts and $500 for the rears.

Do you guys have any experience with any of the Atlantic tech LCR or Dipole/Bipole in walls?

My supplier carries Atlantic Tech, Niles, Polk audio, boston acoustics, current audio, Artison.

I can get a pair of the AT WTS14SRP Bi-pole dipole for just under $500 and AT WTS155LCR THX Dual 5 /14" In-Wall LCR Speaker for $350 ea.

Just wondering if this would be a good combination.

I have yet to purchase a home theater receiver. My budget on this would probably be in around $1000.

Were you able to listen to the different brands that your installer offers? What did you like? I have experience with the Atlantic Tech in-walls and love them, but they are the top of the line versions (IWTS-30 LCR & IWTS-30SR). The pricing on the Atlantics look very good though.

If you are going with your installer, I would imagine you are limited to the offerings he has.
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post #8 of 34 Old 01-24-2012, 07:19 AM
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Try and find a home or demo that has Triads you will not be disappointed.
They are still the closest sound to an in room box speaker I have heard and as an installer I have listened to a lot of brands.
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post #9 of 34 Old 01-24-2012, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davecraze View Post

Those AT are nice but you have to use the separate backbox if you want them to meet THX spec and the backbox is really only useful for new construction, not retrofit, because it is big.

I helped a friend install a system with custom-built backboxes for the AT speakers. I posted pics of them here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post21519585

Craig

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post #10 of 34 Old 01-24-2012, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

Try and find a home or demo that has Triads you will not be disappointed.
They are still the closest sound to an in room box speaker I have heard and as an installer I have listened to a lot of brands.

Agreed on Triad in-walls.

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

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post #11 of 34 Old 01-24-2012, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Agreed on Triad in-walls.

Triad is my next upgrade but I don't believe they are I the OP's budget.
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post #12 of 34 Old 01-24-2012, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Triad is my next upgrade but I don't believe they are I the OP's budget.

But if he did make allowance for them I would bet it would be his last purchase in in walls they sound that good.
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post #13 of 34 Old 01-24-2012, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by oztech View Post


But if he did make allowance for them I would bet it would be his last purchase in in walls they sound that good.

I am sure he would be very happy with the Triad inwalls and surrounds, but my guess is that he would probably have to triple his budget? And arn't the Traid's 4ohm speakers?

I also don't see the OP mention a subwoofer and you will absolutely need one. Which can require $400-800+ of the budget easy.
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post #14 of 34 Old 01-24-2012, 10:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Davecraze View Post

The episode 900s are $1199 per speaker list price, but I don't know what actual selling prices are.

Those AT are nice but you have to use the separate backbox if you want them to meet THX spec and the backbox is really only useful for new construction, not retrofit, because it is big.

Also, since you will only be using one set of surrounds, you should think about also using wide or height speakers. May as well since you will have two (or four) channels of your seven (or nine) channel receiver unused otherwise.

The wall that is behind the screen can be opened up to install a back box, thats not a problem at all.

How much of a difference do the wide or height speakers make?
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post #15 of 34 Old 01-24-2012, 10:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Scout's staff View Post

Were you able to listen to the different brands that your installer offers? What did you like? I have experience with the Atlantic Tech in-walls and love them, but they are the top of the line versions (IWTS-30 LCR & IWTS-30SR). The pricing on the Atlantics look very good though.

If you are going with your installer, I would imagine you are limited to the offerings he has.

I'm doing my own install and have direct access to a couple of suppliers since I am an electrician.

I'm in the process of trying to track down a couple more suppliers in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. But am having a hard time finding them, apparently the stay well hidden. haha
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post #16 of 34 Old 01-24-2012, 10:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I helped a friend install a system with custom-built backboxes for the AT speakers. I posted pics of them here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post21519585

Craig

Are those back boxes built to spec?
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post #17 of 34 Old 01-24-2012, 10:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by oztech View Post

Try and find a home or demo that has Triads you will not be disappointed.
They are still the closest sound to an in room box speaker I have heard and as an installer I have listened to a lot of brands.

The Gold/6 LCR looks pretty bad a**. close to 4 feet tall, but come with a pretty heavy price tag apparently. Has anyone had experience with any of the other models?
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post #18 of 34 Old 01-24-2012, 10:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I am sure he would be very happy with the Triad inwalls and surrounds, but my guess is that he would probably have to triple his budget? And arn't the Traid's 4ohm speakers?

I also don't see the OP mention a subwoofer and you will absolutely need one. Which can require $400-800+ of the budget easy.

The subwoofer is going to be the last piece of the puzzle. I honestly haven't even really thought about a sub yet, or placement.
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post #19 of 34 Old 01-24-2012, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LESS View Post

The Gold/6 LCR looks pretty bad a**. close to 4 feet tall, but come with a pretty heavy price tag apparently. Has anyone had experience with any of the other models?

They are roughly 2200 a piece list price. They also require a 6 inch depth wall. I have heard the silvers (1100 a piece) and the bronze (700 a piece) inwall triads and they are both very nice. Silvers are the sweet spot in the line, I would imagine.
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post #20 of 34 Old 01-25-2012, 12:34 AM
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Are those back boxes built to spec?

Yes. I worked with the AT engineers to ensure adequate/appropriate internal volume. I also lined the boxes with No-Rez and sealed the wire ports with silicone. The enclosures were as good as factory sealed, acoustic suspension boxes.

They sound fantastic. I owned AT 8200e LCR's at the time. The in-walls, in their enclosures, sounded virtually identical.

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post #21 of 34 Old 01-25-2012, 12:37 AM
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The Gold/6 LCR looks pretty bad a**. close to 4 feet tall, but come with a pretty heavy price tag apparently. Has anyone had experience with any of the other models?

These sound fantastic too. You can't go wrong with either the AT or the Triads. Pick your poison... but for a few more $$$, I would pick the Triads.

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post #22 of 34 Old 01-25-2012, 08:33 AM
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The subwoofer is going to be the last piece of the puzzle. I honestly haven't even really thought about a sub yet, or placement.

This is just my advice. I would make the sub the second priority. The first being your front three speakers. If you buy a nice set of inwall mains and then spend too much on surrounds and a receiver and end up skimping on a sub you will be really limiting your system. And with inwall speakers you will need a good sub as it will be hard to get any real extension past 80-100hz.

I only give you this advice as I learned the hard way with a cheap Polk audio sub when I first started to get into multichannel audio and home theater vs just music.

In fact with your room, you may need multiple subwoofers to get the right balance.
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post #23 of 34 Old 01-25-2012, 11:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes. I worked with the AT engineers to ensure adequate/appropriate internal volume. I also lined the boxes with No-Rez and sealed the wire ports with silicone. The enclosures were as good as factory sealed, acoustic suspension boxes.

They sound fantastic. I owned AT 8200e LCR's at the time. The in-walls, in their enclosures, sounded virtually identical.

Craig

You don't by any chance still happen to have the dimensions for the back box handy do you?
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post #24 of 34 Old 01-25-2012, 11:29 PM - Thread Starter
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These sound fantastic too. You can't go wrong with either the AT or the Triads. Pick your poison... but for a few more $$$, I would pick the Triads.

Craig

Biggest thing right now being that I am setting up my home theater to show future customers. So I want to install components that I can get from my suppliers, later down the road I will expand once my knowledge base about audio has increased.

Also My supplier is having a 10% off dealer cost on all Atlantic and Marantz equiptment until Feb 3rd.
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post #25 of 34 Old 01-25-2012, 11:33 PM - Thread Starter
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This is just my advice. I would make the sub the second priority. The first being your front three speakers. If you buy a nice set of inwall mains and then spend too much on surrounds and a receiver and end up skimping on a sub you will be really limiting your system. And with inwall speakers you will need a good sub as it will be hard to get any real extension past 80-100hz.

I only give you this advice as I learned the hard way with a cheap Polk audio sub when I first started to get into multichannel audio and home theater vs just music.

In fact with your room, you may need multiple subwoofers to get the right balance.

I'm just buying everything one thing at a time as I can afford them. I don't plan to go cheap with any of my components.

I was thinking that I would probably need 2 subwoofers since it is quite a large area.
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post #26 of 34 Old 01-26-2012, 06:35 AM
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You don't by any chance still happen to have the dimensions for the back box handy do you?

I will send you a PM with the info that was e-mail'd to be by the Product Manager.

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post #27 of 34 Old 01-26-2012, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I will send you a PM with the info that was e-mail'd to be by the Product Manager.

Craig

Thanks Craig!
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post #28 of 34 Old 01-26-2012, 10:33 AM
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I'm just buying everything one thing at a time as I can afford them. I don't plan to go cheap with any of my components.

I was thinking that I would probably need 2 subwoofers since it is quite a large area.

That is good to hear. I have seen many people overspend on their receiver and surrounds and then buy a budget $200 subwoofer.

To me the sub is just as impotant as the mains and those three components should take up the majority of your budget.

Very interested in hearing what you decide on. AT makes some very nice speakers.
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post #29 of 34 Old 01-26-2012, 10:38 AM
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I'm just buying everything one thing at a time as I can afford them. I don't plan to go cheap with any of my components.

I was thinking that I would probably need 2 subwoofers since it is quite a large area.

By the sounds of an earlier post, it sounds like you are going into the Custom Install/Integration business.

There are two things that are going to be very hard to overcome with regards to bass and your particular room. First thing is, your room is almost an exact square, which is about the worst you can imagine if you want to try to get even bass response in the room. Then throw in the fact that your seating is up against the back wall, and you are going to experience even more problems. There is going to be so much low frequency energy back there that it is going to be very difficult to get it to sound "right". This is going to be especially important if you are going to use this as a "Demo Room" for your new business. I have an installer friend (I am one too) who has a perfect square room and he just spent about $1200 on a Acoustics consultant (just to measure his room and get rcommendations) and he is going to have to spend a lot of money on room treatments and was advised that he will still have issues that cannot be solved. He too wanted to put his seating up against the back wall and has been advised against it. Multiple subwoofers will also help (at least two, but preferrably four).

At the very least I would think about moving your seating out from the back wall a couple of feet (which means a smaller screen in all likelyhood, 165" is already pretty big for a 17' deep room). Also, I would contact someone like GIK acoustics and have them give you some (free) advice on what to do with your room acoustically to help with your situation. They are very friendly and have solid products. I have also heard good things about RealTraps. You can also make the treatments yourself and save a lot of cash!

Sorry to be kind of a downer, but I figured you might want to make the best of it before you invest too much time, money, and energy, especially if this is going to be your business.

Good Luck,
Patrick
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post #30 of 34 Old 01-27-2012, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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By the sounds of an earlier post, it sounds like you are going into the Custom Install/Integration business.

There are two things that are going to be very hard to overcome with regards to bass and your particular room. First thing is, your room is almost an exact square, which is about the worst you can imagine if you want to try to get even bass response in the room. Then throw in the fact that your seating is up against the back wall, and you are going to experience even more problems. There is going to be so much low frequency energy back there that it is going to be very difficult to get it to sound "right". This is going to be especially important if you are going to use this as a "Demo Room" for your new business. I have an installer friend (I am one too) who has a perfect square room and he just spent about $1200 on a Acoustics consultant (just to measure his room and get rcommendations) and he is going to have to spend a lot of money on room treatments and was advised that he will still have issues that cannot be solved. He too wanted to put his seating up against the back wall and has been advised against it. Multiple subwoofers will also help (at least two, but preferrably four).

At the very least I would think about moving your seating out from the back wall a couple of feet (which means a smaller screen in all likelyhood, 165" is already pretty big for a 17' deep room). Also, I would contact someone like GIK acoustics and have them give you some (free) advice on what to do with your room acoustically to help with your situation. They are very friendly and have solid products. I have also heard good things about RealTraps. You can also make the treatments yourself and save a lot of cash!

Sorry to be kind of a downer, but I figured you might want to make the best of it before you invest too much time, money, and energy, especially if this is going to be your business.

Good Luck,
Patrick

Thanks for the advise.

I'm aware that my theater is going to pose some sound issues.
Moving the seating away from the wall posses a bit of a problem since there is an opening in the center of the back wall that leads to the bar and bedroom. I also want to maximize seating space and the only way to do that is to keep everything against the walls.

I will try to post some pics so you have an idea of what I'm up against.
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