Is Bose the Boss? - Page 7 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 220 Old 03-02-2013, 02:23 AM
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Hail to the king baby !!!!!!! Shop smart, Shop S Mart..

i am not a big fan of Bose either, i went to buy a Bose system once when i wanted to get my first surround sond system, as soon as the volume got cranked up and all that distortion kicked in i decided against the Bose system. sounded pretty good

i got a HK receiver and some polk speakers and a polk sub instead. that was a good choice, i was very happy with that and i dont think i would have been happy with that bose system.

after a while i decided it was so much easier to just have a 2 channel set up. my opinion of bose is that they are on the poor side and i do feel that they are over priced. i think i sent less money and got stuff that sounded a good deal better.
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post #182 of 220 Old 03-02-2013, 09:20 AM
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Speaking of cars and Bose. I think Bose should be sold out of the back of white van in the Home Depot parking lot, the sound quality of Bose ranks right up there with the like of Kirsch and Paradyme.

"You found me beautiful once" -Witch
"Baby, you got ugly real fast" -Ash
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post #183 of 220 Old 03-02-2013, 03:04 PM
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I can't believe I got lost in this thread. If there is any chance the OP is still out there...

I read this entire thread, and, like many other threads like this there is a lot of misinformation, but I'll give this my 2 cents (I feel like I have to after investing all that reading time).

Is Bose the "Boss"? Nope. But some things to consider about the claims:

1.) Does Bose have good marketing? Yup. Does it help their sales? Yup. However, the claim that they suck because they have to pay for marketing is a classic misstep in accounting... If your marketing does its job in increasing your sales, then the amount of profit you make goes up proportionally. If you increase profit via marketing by X when spending Y on marketing, and X>Y, the marketing pays for itself. This is why most companies that can afford to market agressively, do. In summary, don't be swayed by the marketing, but don't think marketing in and of itself makes for a worse product, that's silly.

2.) Does Bose have "cheap" construction materials (plywood, plastic, paper)? Yup. Are they good looking products and reliable? Yup. Do all other major audio brands use the same materials? Yup. I don't know what to say about this one except judge the product for yourself. A special note on the "paper cone" claim... If anyone is so inclinded, please go get a materials science handbook and tell me what material has better stiffness/weight^3 and damping characteristics than paper. Here's a hint: it's not Kevlar, its not glass fiber, and its not aluminum. I don't know why people argue over this, its one of the simplest things in audio.

3.) Does Bose sound the "Best"? Oh hell no. If you use your ears, you can tell that easily. Bose sounds pretty good, all of the time, and that's the rub; other audio brands sound anywhere from pretty good to amazing (for much less $). Why don't they all sound good all the time? Because, as many people pointed out, you have to know what your doing with audio to get them setup right (I don't recommend non-integrated Bose products as it bypasses what they do best). Get a subwoofer from company A and speakers from B and receiver from C? Not rocket science to setup, but not childs play either. Level, tone, positioning are the basic ones, but to get great sound you'll want EQ (if only for the room) and that's not simple. God forbid you want to do it right and ensure you have the appropriate sound measurement equipment to verify your setup... That brings me to my final point:

3a.) Bose touts "stereo everywhere". They intentionally make their speakers have weaker soundstages to sound good everywhere. My personal preference are big 'ol badass tower speakers with one sweet spot. Move outside that and you're toast; this is an unfortunate fact of acoustics, you can have one but not the other. Serious listeners almost always prefer the same, and hate Bose for that reason (amongst others). However, I can't help but noticing even the serious listeners calling for upgrades to a "man cave" or the like... Ever been over a man cave an gotten the demo that starts with "move here, no here... yea right there", hardly practical.

-TheDude

P.S. If anyone's wondering what "gear" I have, I built my own, though I do have a couple old Sony & Yamaha amps and run some digital EQ (MiniDSP's stuff). Ironically, it never sounds the same 'cause I'm always messing with it!
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post #184 of 220 Old 03-02-2013, 03:07 PM
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To the OP,

I would suggest you ignore pretty much everything you've read in this thread and just listen to different speakers and look at different speakers and then decide for yourself.
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post #185 of 220 Old 03-02-2013, 03:17 PM
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Bose of old was pretty decent.. when compared to everything else that was out around that time. For example Bose vs Sansui, Telefunken, Sonab, etc. If you're making music at the back of the pawn shop, Bose is as good as any other vintage speaker manufacturer.

However, these days they've spent more on marketing than they have on advancing and keeping up with other speaker manufacturers. For $2k there's plenty of other alternatives.

My friend's dad had some old Bose speakers in his basement.. so growing up he thought Bose was King. 13-ish years ago I bought my first set of speakers (B&W DM604S2 mains) and we sat down together to watch some Fast and Furious movie.. he was blown away. When he got his own place he bought a set of Accoustimass 10s Future Shop's boxing day sale, thinking they're going to be better like his dad's stereo setup and similar to my stereo setup.... he soon realized his speakers were crappy.. lots of boom boom from the big bass box and no mids coming from anywhere else. He's still using that set, but I guess he's okay with mediocrity... biggrin.gif
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post #186 of 220 Old 03-02-2013, 06:52 PM
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My 800 dollar definitive technology pro 600 is way better than that Bose system! No questions about it5 yearbwarrenty

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post #187 of 220 Old 03-02-2013, 07:15 PM
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My 800 dollar definitive technology is way better than that Bose system! No questions about ityou should check out
Ascend acoustics. And svs for a sub. U could have a rocking system from this two plus a Yamaha or denon avr.
Ascend is gona be my next setup I do belive. Still demoing though

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post #188 of 220 Old 03-03-2013, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dat56 View Post

To the OP,

I would suggest you ignore pretty much everything you've read in this thread and just listen to different speakers and look at different speakers and then decide for yourself.
To DAT. Stop trying to convince everyone that Bose is anything but overpriced garbage.

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post #189 of 220 Old 03-03-2013, 12:12 PM
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I didn't mention Bose. I advised him to compare and make his own decision.

And I will post whatever I please.
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post #190 of 220 Old 03-03-2013, 12:18 PM
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This is a YEAR old thread and I am sure the OP has already proceeded with a solution!

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post #191 of 220 Old 03-03-2013, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post

This is a YEAR old thread and I am sure the OP has already proceeded with a solution!

I heard he bought the Bose Acoustimass, figured out they were crap, and has since sold them and upgraded for the price of the original Bose wink.gif

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post #192 of 220 Old 03-03-2013, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dat56 View Post

I didn't mention Bose. I advised him to compare and make his own decision.

And I will post whatever I please.
Sure, like you're not the biggest Bose defender on this board.

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post #193 of 220 Old 03-04-2013, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

To DAT. Stop trying to convince everyone that Bose is anything but overpriced garbage.

As you should stop your crusade to say they are ..

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post #194 of 220 Old 03-04-2013, 08:05 AM
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I am far from the minority here. Last I checked the purpose of this board is to educate people on the SCIENCE of AV. The purpose is not to try and fool them into believing something is true when it is not. I can scientifically verify Bose is overpriced junk. I have a leg to stand on. Bose lovers have nothing but opinion. Fact trumps opinion every time.

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post #195 of 220 Old 03-04-2013, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

I am far from the minority here. Last I checked the purpose of this board is to educate people on the SCIENCE of AV. The purpose is not to try and fool them into believing something is true when it is not. I can scientifically verify Bose is overpriced junk. I have a leg to stand on. Bose lovers have nothing but opinion. Fact trumps opinion every time.

AVS Forum really has nothing to do with science .. it's an offshoot of a company that sells equipment and always has been ..

Audio is as much subjective as it is objective .. especially when it comes to speakers .. and no, fact does not trump opinion in all cases .. if a listener like what they hear, that's the main criteria ..

I am neither bashing nor defending Bose .. however, as a guy that's been into this hobby for over 45 years, I can tell you that without a doubt there are worse speakers ..

As well, Bose is considered one of the most trusted brands by consumers, has 20% of the speaker market last I heard, does in excess of a billion in sales per year

The point being, all of these consumers can't be wrong .. science or not ..

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post #196 of 220 Old 03-04-2013, 08:55 AM
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Fair enough. I absolutely agree with you that there are worse speakers than Bose out there. But in all fairness, they also don't charge the premium price. Bose has done great with marketing. It doesn't take much to convince an uneducated consumer that something is superior through deceptive advertising. I lump Monster products i the same category. Those Beats things are just awful sounding. But everyone like to buy them for the fashion statement over good sound. That just flabbergasts me.

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post #197 of 220 Old 03-04-2013, 09:23 AM
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the AVS forum is a mix of science, fashion and opinion...however, when people make claims that are not consistent with the science, that often gets thrown out there!

Bose only makes broad claims that cannot be backed up or disproven scientifically...like their small speaker that produce a sound more like a full range speaker- a riduculous claim, but so vagely worded that it cannot really be held to a specific sceintific standard. However, posters on this forum, speaking about the 901 and other Bose speakers, have made very specific statements that aren't sceintifically possible (for instance, in the 901 thread, someone said that his 901 produced bass as good as a good subwoofer and it was corrrectly pointed out that scientifically, the drivers in the bose 901 could not get below 100 hz at a decent db level).
Science IS frequently discussed on the AVS forum!

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post #198 of 220 Old 03-04-2013, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

Audio is as much subjective as it is objective .. especially when it comes to speakers .. and no, fact does not trump opinion in all cases .. if a listener like what they hear, that's the main criteria ..

I am neither bashing nor defending Bose .. however, as a guy that's been into this hobby for over 45 years, I can tell you that without a doubt there are worse speakers ..

As well, Bose is considered one of the most trusted brands by consumers, has 20% of the speaker market last I heard, does in excess of a billion in sales per year

The point being, all of these consumers can't be wrong .. science or not ..

Actually, one of the main points is that the very, very large majority of them have made a decision based on very limited subjective experience. Bose speakers are typically a purchase made based largely on the influence of marketing and brand name recognition, with only having heard Bose speakers. So not based on science OR an informed opinion of how the speakers sound compared to alternatives.

So yeah. Most of them can be wrong.

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post #199 of 220 Old 03-04-2013, 09:26 AM
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^^^ .. I am fully with you .. although I tend to lean toward believing that with the R&D they do and what not, Bose believes their advertising is accurate ..

The last thing (I promise) that I will add is if you get into the Bose Pro goods .. line arrays, portable PA's .. etc .. they are actually very good ..

I wish I had thought up the Beats idea .. sell a $20.00 set of cans for $140 + by tacking a music celebrity's name on them .. wink.gif

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post #200 of 220 Old 03-04-2013, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post



The point being, all of these consumers can't be wrong .. science or not ..
I think you need a new avatar. This one would be apropos:


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The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
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post #201 of 220 Old 03-04-2013, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Actually, one of the main points is that the very, very large majority of them have made a decision based on very limited subjective experience. Bose speakers are typically a purchase made based largely on the influence of marketing and brand name recognition, with only having heard Bose speakers. So not based on science OR an informed opinion of how the speakers sound compared to alternatives.

So yeah. Most of them can be wrong.

I don't disagree that if Pioneer (who make some excellent speakers, BTW) spent the money Bose does on marketing, they would sell more, any company would ..

And, I said they all can't all be wrong .. and not all consumers just walk in or click buy and do a blind buy .. many actually do demo the product ..

Like I said, I'm not cheerleading nor bashing Bose .. just reminding that audio selection can and is in many cases a subjective opinion .. one persons junk is another persons treasure .. and I am also sure that in some rooms / environments, a Bose system sounds great ..

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post #202 of 220 Old 03-04-2013, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

I think you need a new avatar. This one would be apropos:


I'm not even going to guess what that means .. but I'm flattered that you would take the time .. eek.gif

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post #203 of 220 Old 03-04-2013, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

The last thing (I promise) that I will add is if you get into the Bose Pro goods .. line arrays, portable PA's .. etc .. they are actually very good ..

I wouldn't doubt that. Their headphones are not bad. When they first came out, they really filled a good niche in the market for active noise cancelling headphones. Now there are other competitors, and one can get better values. But not a bad product. And then Bose Wave Radio was a pretty cool device when it came out for being a small CD player stereo box. Now there are plenty of iPod speaker docks to compete in that market, though.
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^^^ .. I am fully with you .. although I tend to lean toward believing that with the R&D they do and what not, Bose believes their advertising is accurate ..

Probably so for the x01 series of speakers, if one buys into the benefit of the diffuse sound field they create. The company was built around those speakers.

But they have to know that the Bose Acoustimass is a McDonalds of speaker setups in a box, only with an Outback price tag. I would not be surprised if Acoustimass was an invention of the Bose marketing division and management who saw an opportunity to capitalize on their name, not something that came out of their R&D.

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post #204 of 220 Old 03-04-2013, 09:44 AM
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I own a pair of the 901's. They've been packed away since I purchased a surround sound speaker package over ten years ago. I would continue to use them if I had more space. They work very well in a two channel system, hanging from the ceiling in a game room, for example. BTW, the 901's have been in the Bose speaker line since the 1960's...a big achievement. As most of us know, a very small part of the population want "high performance" audio. Many of the rest of the population are comfortable purchasing from a company that positions themselves in the market well. It's about public perception of a company...how they market their products. Who cares who likes or dislikes them.

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post #205 of 220 Old 03-04-2013, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

And, I said they all can't all be wrong .. and not all consumers just walk in or click buy and do a blind buy .. many actually do demo the product ..

Like I said, I'm not cheerleading nor bashing Bose .. just reminding that audio selection can and is in many cases a subjective opinion .. one persons junk is another persons treasure .. and I am also sure that in some rooms / environments, a Bose system sounds great ..

Yeah. But most don't compare them to anything else, and even if they do, they've been so heavily influenced by marketing and Bose reputation hype that they are biased toward Bose in any listening experience. That is, unless the Bose influence veil is lifted. And personally, I suspect that the situation where Bose sounds very good in a room compared to alternatives is very rare. Besides, people aren't purchasing Bose with knowledge of how they will sound in their room.

And so I think that justifies what happens here on AVS. People come here looking for advice on what to purchase or why their system isn't sounding good. The adamant claims of people like flyingfool are important because they are trying to counter the billions spent by Bose on marketing. It's Bose deprogramming. Sometimes you have to shout to get people to listen, to confront what they have been enculturated to believe smile.gif

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post #206 of 220 Old 03-04-2013, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Yeah. But most don't compare them to anything else, and even if they do, they've been so heavily influenced by marketing and Bose reputation hype that they are biased toward Bose in any listening experience. That is, unless the Bose influence veil is lifted. And personally, I suspect that the situation where Bose sounds very good in a room compared to alternatives is very rare. Besides, people aren't purchasing Bose with knowledge of how they will sound in their room.

And so I think that justifies what happens here on AVS. People come here looking for advice on what to purchase or why their system isn't sounding good. The adamant claims of people like flyingfool are important because they are trying to counter the billions spent by Bose on marketing. It's Bose deprogramming. Sometimes you have to shout to get people to listen, to confront what they have been enculturated to believe smile.gif

Buy direct from Bose, get 30 days free home trial .. as well, it's not uncommon for B&M to offer free home trial periods .. folks can have plenty of real life demo time .. if the majority of folks were unhappy with the product, the company would be long gone ..and to lump the bulk of the buyers into un-prepped consumers programmed and swayed solely by marketing is simply ludicrous .. a product, any product, must be able to stand on it's own in order to stay in the market and continue to profit a company .. if the product is a fail, no amount of marketing will change that .. especially over the course of years ..

Like I've said more than once now .. audio gear selection, especially with speakers, is a subjective choice ..

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post #207 of 220 Old 03-04-2013, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post

the AVS forum is a mix of science, fashion and opinion...however, when people make claims that are not consistent with the science, that often gets thrown out there!

Bose only makes broad claims that cannot be backed up or disproven scientifically...like their small speaker that produce a sound more like a full range speaker- a riduculous claim, but so vagely worded that it cannot really be held to a specific sceintific standardHowever, posters on this forum, speaking about the 901 and other Bose speakers, have made very specific statements that aren't sceintifically possible (for instance, in the 901 thread, someone said that his 901 produced bass as good as a good subwoofer and it was corrrectly pointed out that scientifically, the drivers in the bose 901 could not get below 100 hz at a decent db level).).
Science IS frequently discussed on the AVS forum!

I don't know who said the 901 "produced bass as good as a good subwoofer". It wasn't me. On the other hand, the 901 does indeed go below 100Hz, and it does it very well. Mine measure relatively flat to below 30 Hz. And that is with the bass cut engaged, inserting a 6dB dip at 35Hz. Without that, bass response actually rises down into the 25Hz range, then falls off abruptly. But to me the sound is better with the bass cut in-circuit. Of course, I can't verify the accuracy of my spl meter. As far as I know, it's accurate as it ever was. I always apply corrections below 125Hz, when I measure with it. I got them over on the Home Theater forum.
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Actually, one of the main points is that the very, very large majority of them have made a decision based on very limited subjective experience. Bose speakers are typically a purchase made based largely on the influence of marketing and brand name recognition, with only having heard Bose speakers. So not based on science OR an informed opinion of how the speakers sound compared to alternatives.

So yeah. Most of them can be wrong.

And how in the world could you possibly know this? Did you do scientific study?? If not, then you're just spouting uninformed opinion.

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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

And, I said they all can't all be wrong .. and not all consumers just walk in or click buy and do a blind buy .. many actually do demo the product ..

Like I said, I'm not cheerleading nor bashing Bose .. just reminding that audio selection can and is in many cases a subjective opinion .. one persons junk is another persons treasure .. and I am also sure that in some rooms / environments, a Bose system sounds great ..

Yeah. But most don't compare them to anything else, and even if they do, they've been so heavily influenced by marketing and Bose reputation hype that they are biased toward Bose in any listening experience. That is, unless the Bose influence veil is lifted. And personally, I suspect that the situation where Bose sounds very good in a room compared to alternatives is very rare. Besides, people aren't purchasing Bose with knowledge of how they will sound in their room.

And so I think that justifies what happens here on AVS. People come here looking for advice on what to purchase or why their system isn't sounding good. The adamant claims of people like flyingfool are important because they are trying to counter the billions spent by Bose on marketing. It's Bose deprogramming. Sometimes you have to shout to get people to listen, to confront what they have been enculturated to believe smile.gif

More baseless, uninformed opinion. "Billions spent" Really? And you know this because...? Also, what is "reputation hype"? And, is "enculturated" a word?
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post #208 of 220 Old 03-04-2013, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by dat56 View Post

And how in the world could you possibly know this? Did you do scientific study?? If not, then you're just spouting uninformed opinion.

There's plenty of testimonial from people regarding their decision making process and from those who sell Bose speakers in places like Best Buy, evidence even here on AVS in discussions about this. So it's an "informed" opinion.

However, if you have focus group and marketing survey data from Bose Corp to the contrary, please share it.
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And, is "enculturated" a word?

You want me to teach you how to use the Internet to look up definitions of words? LOL

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post #209 of 220 Old 03-04-2013, 11:15 AM
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Okay, dat! And I got a bridge to sell real cheap!
I think we have seen enough science that proves that a bunch of 3 inch drivers CANNOT get much below 100hz, maybe some audible freq down to 60-70...so your claim defys the laws of physics!

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post #210 of 220 Old 03-04-2013, 11:19 AM
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Best Buy, Page One, Bose Search, Unsorted, Consistently Good Reviews Average

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Bose/Bose-Speakers/pcmcat168900050016.c?id=pcmcat168900050016

Amazon, Page One, Bose Search, Unsorted, Consistently Good Reviews Average

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=bose#/ref=sr_nr_scat_3025451_ln?rh=n%3A3025451%2Ck%3Abose&keywords=bose&ie=UTF8&qid=1362420974&scn=3025451&h=96c2edc0182a224b76d105922a180b1fedc1adec

Yet I suppose all of these reviews are salted / posted by uninformed buyers / a ploy of marketing and a general conspiracy propagated by a multi national corporation in order to brainwash and sway buyers both now and in the future ..

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