100k speakers vs 1k speakers! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 158 Old 02-22-2012, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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How much better can speakers be for 100xthe price?! Really? Maybe I need to hear them, but 100k dollars!!!!! I understand that some speakers sound a lot better than others, but $100k!! C'mon man! We're talking about 100k dollars. If some 1000 dollar speakers sound "natural", how much more natural can you get? You cant get more real than real. Somebody please try to make me understand how great 100k dollar speakers are. Not jealous or anything in that matter, but if I had the money I still would not buy them because they are ugly lol. At least I know what the difference is between an Aston Martin Db9 and a Cavalier is.

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post #2 of 158 Old 02-22-2012, 08:16 PM
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Depends on what your definition of "natural" and "good speakers" are.

I personally do not think 1,000 buys you a great set of new speakers.

Maybe 1,000 plus more for a sub will get you a pretty good 2 channel setup, but to have a great pair of full range speakers you'll need to spend at least 2,500 or so if you want true full range sound.

I personally believe the upgrades up to 8,000-15,000 are still pretty noticeable and as you get higher and higher they become less and less noticeable.

Once you get over 15,000 for a pair of speakers you really get into a lot of cosmetic differences and other random stuff that I personally don't deem as that important.

To use the car example you spoke of a Nissan GT-R at 80 grand is a hell of a sports car and will out perform many 250,000 dollar sports cars but that doesn't stop people from spending that or more on one now does it.
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post #3 of 158 Old 02-22-2012, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

How much better can speakers be for 100xthe price?! Really? Maybe I need to hear them, but 100k dollars!!!!! I understand that some speakers sound a lot better than others, but $100k!! C'mon man! We're talking about 100k dollars. If some 1000 dollar speakers sound "natural", how much more natural can you get? You cant get more real than real. Somebody please try to make me understand how great 100k dollar speakers are. Not jealous or anything in that matter, but if I had the money I still would not buy them because they are ugly lol. At least I know what the difference is between an Aston Martin Db9 and a Cavalier is.

They cost $100k because they probably won't sell more than a few dozen pieces, and you gotta pay your staff + vendors that sell you parts, who charge you more because you are buying custom parts in low volume.

$1 million dollar car isn't exactly 100 times better than a $10,000 car.
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post #4 of 158 Old 02-22-2012, 08:30 PM
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How big a speaker does 100K buy? Don't see very many of them around.

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post #5 of 158 Old 02-22-2012, 08:32 PM
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This should be good...
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post #6 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 04:15 AM
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This should be good...

It won't be.

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post #7 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 04:47 AM
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I listened to a pair of Wilson Audios that were $170k and a pair of $45k Sonus Faber speakers last Saturday and almost cried(joking). I could close my eyes and actually see the musicians in the room. The sound was so good, it was surreal.

Like most things in life, are experiences are normally private and that's what makes us all different. I understand your point when you say, really 100k but they cost that much because there is a market for it. Some people don't mind spending a boat load of money on things that make them happy. The cost is probably not justified in some eyes but they are in others. If I had the money and could afford it, I would buy the Faber's in a heart beat.

You think 100k is a lot? I asked the salesman how many pairs do they sale a year and he said anywhere from 7 to 10. I was shocked but that wasn't the surprising part. He said that by the time people finish buying the cables, amplifies, pre amps, cd players and all the other goodies it becomes a half a million dollar investment....wow....
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post #8 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post


How big a speaker does 100K buy? Don't see very many of them around.

The WA's were over six feet tall and the Fabets were about five feet...just a guesstimate....
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post #9 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by grantc79 View Post

Depends on what your definition of "natural" and "good speakers" are.

I personally do not think 1,000 buys you a great set of new speakers.

If you knew how much the actual speaker components would cost you would realize that few high end speakers cost more than a $1000 to manufacture. Sony has some nice (yes, I know, Sony!) speakers for $27,000/pair that have ScanSpeak drivers that cost less than $3,000 (cost of the drivers bought from Madisound). The cabinets are very beautiful but would not be worth $24,000 to me. There is the law of diminishing returns that must be considered too. $1,000 is a bit low for the best speakers but $2,000 will buy a very good pair of speakers IMHO. Including amplifiers, my active DIY R/L/C speakers cost about $2,500 to build. Speaker companies pay less for drivers of course.
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post #10 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 05:11 AM
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You can throw money at a lot of problems and solve them in a hurry.

I spent 30 years listening, trying to buy the cheapest that I could find that sounded great, and ended up having a system where the investment is around $25,000 for the whole system. It is good enough that it does 98% of what a half-million system will do, but if you want the whole thing...lol....

To approach perfection, the money curve gets steep at the top....



On the other hand, my system at my second home has PSB Image T6 speakers for $1300 and with a Musical Fidelity M3i integrated amplifier for $1500 you can have about 90% of the sound quality of my big system for around $6000 total including turntable and cartridge and player; very very good.

The Image T6 speakers and the Musical Fidelity amplifier are both standouts at their price and can form the core for a very fine system at prices that won't wreck the budget of most people too badly. A lot of more expensive stuff doesn't sound as good as these.

Another real standout that can make a system sound great is the Cambridge 650R 7.1 receiver. It sounds better than any other receiver under $3000, IMO, and only costs $1599.

The Vandersteen speakers and subs in my big system cost more by themselves than my whole system at the second house. For that matter, the PREAMP in my big system cost more too, lol.

Choices, choices.




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Originally Posted by jclif77 View Post

I listened to a pair of Wilson Audios that were $170k and a pair of $45k Sonus Faber speakers last Saturday and almost cried(joking). I could close my eyes and actually see the musicians in the room. The sound was so good, it was surreal.

Like most things in life, are experiences are normally private and that's what makes us all different. I understand your point when you say, really 100k but they cost that much because there is a market for it. Some people don't mind spending a boat load of money on things that make them happy. The cost is probably not justified in some eyes but they are in others. If I had the money and could afford it, I would buy the Faber's in a heart beat.

You think 100k is a lot? I asked the salesman how many pairs do they sale a year and he said anywhere from 7 to 10. I was shocked but that wasn't the surprising part. He said that by the time people finish buying the cables, amplifies, pre amps, cd players and all the other goodies it becomes a half a million dollar investment....wow....

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post #11 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

You can throw money at a lot of problems and solve them in a hurry.

I spent 30 years listening, trying to buy the cheapest that I could find that sounded great, and ended up having a system where the investment is around $25,000 for the whole system. It is good enough that it does 98% of what a half-million system will do, but if you want the whole thing...lol....



On the other hand, my system at my second home has PSB Image T6 speakers for $1300 and with a Musical Fidelity M3i integrated amplifier for $1500 you can have about 90% of the sound quality of my big system for around $6000 total including turntable and cartridge and player.

The Image T6 speakers and the Musical Fidelity amplifier are both standouts at their price and can form the core for a very fine system at prices that won't wreck the budget of most people too badly.

The Vandersteen speakers and subs in my big system cost more by themselves than my whole system at the second house. For that matter, the PREAMP in my big system cost more too, lol.

Choices, choices.

That is so true, we can throw a lot of money around to satisfy problems, urges and desires...
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post #12 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
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I dont know........Sometimes people that drink expensive wine think it tastes better than a cheaper wine. I have seen a blinded wine test on tv where they dont know which wine is the expensive wine and people chose the cheaper wine. Nothing was over 50 dollars a glass so the test was somewhat limited but you get my point.

I also dont think there has to be a price tag on a speaker to get it into "another class". If the speaker sounds great, then it sounds great. There are also a lot of factors. The room that you audition those crazy expenive speakers is probably perfectly acoustically treated to where the speakers perform the best they can. I seriously doubt somebody buys those speakers before testing them out.

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post #13 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 05:49 AM
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with all the multi-million and billionaires in this world do you think they are going to have some polks in their sound system.thats why these companies with $100k and up cater to.the price of these speakers not only reflect on their sound but in their over all build with exotic woods and shapes. they are more pieces of art and take alot longer to build than your average polk assembly line speaker. but i'm sure there are some $10000-20,000 speakers that can match their sound but i'll never know unless i hit the power ball lottery

i'm so laid back,i'm laid out
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post #14 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

If you knew how much the actual speaker components would cost you would realize that few high end speakers cost more than a $1000 to manufacture.

+1. Once you get above roughly $5000 at retail the only substantial difference with a higher price is the price. Those with more funds than knowledge, to put it in a polite fashion, think that a higher price equals better performance. It isn't the least bit true, but so long as there are willing buyers there will be willing sellers, be it for a $50,000 speaker or a $100 cable. Or a twenty dollar bag of rocks.

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post #15 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 05:51 AM
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Even a moderate amount of room treatment can go a long way. I think my three panels cost about $200. Next to speakers and Audyssey, room treatment made more of an improvement than anything else.
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post #16 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jclif77 View Post

You think 100k is a lot? I asked the salesman how many pairs do they sale a year and he said anywhere from 7 to 10. I was shocked but that wasn't the surprising part. He said that by the time people finish buying the cables, amplifies, pre amps, cd players and all the other goodies it becomes a half a million dollar investment....wow....

And to many who spend $500 on an amp, they would hook these $100k speakers to lamp cord with a $50 CD player, $500 amp and $2.50 rca's from radio shack.

All sound the same right....

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post #17 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 05:56 AM
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I'd expect a more objective view from a Doctor.
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post #18 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

I'd expect a more objective view from a Doctor.

Agreed.

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post #19 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

I'd expect a more objective view from a Doctor.

Only if said doctorate is in acoustical engineering.

When Peter Walker brought out his magnificent Quad ESLs for their first industry review he forgot to bring any speaker cables. He had an assistant find some in a nearby hardware store. The reviewers of course loved the speakers, but a goodly percentage of them were also convinced that the unusual cables must have had much to do with the results. At the news conference at the end of the day Walker was asked what brand these orange colored cables were. His reply: "Black and Decker".

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post #20 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Even a moderate amount of room treatment can go a long way. I think my three panels cost about $200. Next to speakers and Audyssey, room treatment made more of an improvement than anything else.

also agree

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post #21 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 06:16 AM
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Bill, if it works why mess with it. Several companies show off their DAC's using a $50 DVD player.
If it works for you enjoy.

Life is enjoyable with good quality
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post #22 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 06:27 AM
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At CES2012, Goldenear was showing their brand new $1,000 speakers and they sounded great, but they were being driven by high-end pass labs equipment with expensive interconnects and speaker wire. The cost of the equipment driving their $1,000 speakers was over $80,000
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post #23 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by mlknez View Post

At CES2012, Goldenear was showing their brand new $1,000 speakers and they sounded great, but they were being driven by high-end pass labs equipment with expensive interconnects and speaker wire. The cost of the equipment driving their $1,000 speakers was over $80,000

Yes, Pass Labs makes some euphonic (pleasant sounding distortion) amps that actually sound different from run of the mill type AB amps. I would want to hear the speakers with a neutral (and inexpensive) amp. As known by some, I don't believe in special cables. One can spend $800/foot speaker cable from Madisound but this is just wasteful IMHO. Of course many audiophiles see expensive cables being used and assume that they make a difference (the placebo effect).
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post #24 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 06:46 AM
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These $100K+ speakers may not sound any better to you or me, but they sound much better to the owners. That is what matters.

No point trying make it less enjoyable for those who can afford it. Rich people get depressed. They need help. If $200K speakers make them feel better, that's great.

And $75K speakers sound better than $60K speakers, which sound better than $50K speakers, which sound better than $30K speakers and so on and so forth.

Life is great. Be happy.
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post #25 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 06:51 AM
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Yes, if someone needs to spend a lot of money to feel good, that's their right.
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post #26 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jclif77 View Post

You think 100k is a lot? I asked the salesman how many pairs do they sale a year and he said anywhere from 7 to 10. I was shocked but that wasn't the surprising part. He said that by the time people finish buying the cables, amplifies, pre amps, cd players and all the other goodies it becomes a half a million dollar investment....wow....

One percenters.
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post #27 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

These $100K+ speakers may not sound any better to you or me, but they sound much better to the owners. That is what matters.

No point trying make it less enjoyable for those who can afford it. Rich people get depressed. They need help. If $200K speakers make them feel better, that's great.

And $75K speakers sound better than $60K speakers, which sound better than $50K speakers, which sound better than $30K speakers and so on and so forth.

Life is great. Be happy.

My point exactly.

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post #28 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 08:42 AM
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The most expensive speakers I have heard cost 60k, I don't remember if that was each or for the pair.
They required an amplifier for each driver.
Easily the best sounding speakers I have ever heard.
I am still very happy with my modest speakers and AVR.
For truly wealthy people 100k is less % of annual income than 1k is for someone that rakes in 100k, so if someone has the disposable income why not get something truly magnificent.

Regards,
Charlie

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post #29 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

These $100K+ speakers may not sound any better to you or me, but they sound much better to the owners. That is what matters.

No point trying make it less enjoyable for those who can afford it. Rich people get depressed. They need help. If $200K speakers make them feel better, that's great.

And $75K speakers sound better than $60K speakers, which sound better than $50K speakers, which sound better than $30K speakers and so on and so forth.

Life is great. Be happy.

I think you just summed it up perfectly...
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post #30 of 158 Old 02-23-2012, 09:33 AM
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Speakers + room, this set-up blew me away, and the owner evolved his 2-channel listening room over many years.

For the life of me, why do so many only focus on the $$$'s of the speakers and not include the room interaction?

Wait, when you spend over $100k (or place your figure here) on speakers they magically don't need appropriate room treatments...




Some of you here may recognize the guy sitting in the MLP chair....
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