Can I put Maggies in this room? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 35 Old 02-23-2012, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Kinda been thinking about upgrading and Maggies have been on my mind lately.

Look at pics of my room here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post20023194

and scroll to post 1608 for a better overview. The room is 16x20 with the speakers on the long side of the room. The Maggies would be 2 feet from the front wall and 5 feet from the sides - with adjusting within this space for best sound and placement/integration with the subs. Seating is 9 feet from the speakers with 4 feet behind

I'd like to use my current 6 y.o. Yamaha 650 receiver to power but could add an '80s 100w/ 2 channels Yamaha integrated amp or a 200w/ 2 channels McIntosh amp (though I prefer not lugging the 85 lb. beastie out of my 2 channel set up). I've driven 4 ohm speakers with the receiver (for a very short while) and int. amp (as a main system) before. I really don't want to buy additional amps or receiver and would be a deal breaker on the speakers.

A concern would be the center channel - I didn't check the dimensions and could use some advice there for sure.

I use this room 80/20 for music/movies and would like to do this as inexpensively as possible with new speakers.

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post #2 of 35 Old 02-23-2012, 08:01 AM
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First, I want to say that Magneplanars are wonderful speakers, and that goes double for the 1.7!!

But; using them for home theater is usually not workable for several reasons.

#1-they are one-person speakers; they are so directional that the listening area is very tiny if you want good performance.

#2-The only HT receiver that I would even consider driving them with is a Cambridge 650R (with the front channels bi-amped at 220 watts each). The rest (even those costing several thousand dollars) do not have a low enough output impedance to drive them properly.

In general I would want a Bryston 3B-SST or a Vincent SP-331 or similar amp to drive them.

#3- They have to be several feet from the wall behind them and the walls to either side; it takes a large room and their positioning has to be your absolute top priority. This just doesn't work out with most HT systems. Most people have conflicting needs or priorities. Two feet from the wall behind them is not workable; four to five feet is needed.

#4- If you are even asking about a center channel, you don't understand Magneplanars. They are incompatible with a center channel*. If you use them for HT, you would only use four channels; the mags and two in the rear corners of the room (plus subs).


*...yeah, I know, Magneplanar makes a center channel speaker; it really screws up the sound that you get from the L/R speakers. I guess they feel that they have to cater to the people who think that you just have to have one, but the concept sucks. You get much better sound without one.





Quote:
Originally Posted by citizen arcane View Post

Kinda been thinking about upgrading and Maggies have been on my mind lately.

Look at pics of my room here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post20023194

and scroll to post 1608 for a better overview. The room is 16x20 with the speakers on the long side of the room. The Maggies would be 2 feet from the front wall and 5 feet from the sides. Seating is 9 feet from the speakers with 4 feet behind

I'd like to use my current 6 y.o. Yamaha 650 receiver to power but could add an '80s 100w/ 2 channels Yamaha integrated amp or a 200w/ 2 channels McIntosh amp (though I prefer not lugging the 85 lb. beastie out of my 2 channel set up). I've driven 4 ohm speakers with the receiver (for a very short while) and int. amp (as a main system) before. I really don't want to buy additional amps or receiver and would be a deal breaker on the speakers.

A concern would be the center channel - could use some advice there for sure.

I use this room 80/20 for music/movies and would like to do this as inexpensively as possible with new speakers.

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post #3 of 35 Old 02-23-2012, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I would prefer no center and asked about the center as they offer one. Setting up for the "sweet spot" wouldn't be a problem as I use this space solo anyway. The 2 channel amplification could possibly be provided by the 2 channel integrated Yamaha and for sure the Mac.

So I guess my main question at this point would be: would the space described allow for (good) placement of 2 MMGs?

No I don't know Magnaplanars, that is why I ask.

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post #4 of 35 Old 02-23-2012, 08:38 AM
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The MMGs would probably work OK with the McIntosh amp, but you definitely need to get them more than 2 feet from the rear wall. I can't speak about the Yamaha; don't know its characteristics. From my experience with Yamaha amps, though, I doubt if it will like the maggies.

In general, amps that have a low enough output impedance to run them will have a rating of at least 150 watts at 4 ohms. They don't need that much POWER, actually; it's the low output impedance that is critical, and that is because they are very reactive, and have different amounts of reactance at different frequencies. A lot of amps go crazy and distort like hell with that kind of load; even some that have very high power ratings. It has to do with the design of the amplifier's internal feedback loop, and how that reacts to the phase shift caused by the speakers.

It looks like you have enough room to get them out far enough, and you will have them far enough from the side walls.




Quote:
Originally Posted by citizen arcane View Post

I would prefer no center and asked about the center as they offer one. Setting up for the "sweet spot" wouldn't be a problem as I use this space solo anyway. The 2 channel amplification could possibly be provided by the 2 channel integrated Yamaha and for sure the Mac.

So I guess my main question at this point would be: would the space described allow for (good) placement of 2 MMGs?

No I don't know Magnaplanars, that is why I ask.

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post #5 of 35 Old 02-23-2012, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

In general, amps that have a low enough output impedance to run them will have a rating of at least 150 watts at 4 ohms. They don't need that much POWER, actually; it's the low output impedance that is critical, and that is because they are very reactive, and have different amounts of reactance at different frequencies. A lot of amps go crazy and distort like hell with that kind of load; even some that have very high power ratings. It has to do with the design of the amplifier's internal feedback loop, and how that reacts to the phase shift caused by the speakers.

Thanks for the explanation.

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post #6 of 35 Old 02-23-2012, 11:26 AM
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Hmmm...

1. Maggies should be fine in that room. It is much larger than mine, sob...

2. I and many others are using Magneplaners for HT with no problems. They are more directional than conventional speakers, but that is not neccessarily a drawback. The most obvious benefit is that side and floor/ceiling early reflections are less an issue since they do not radiate much off the sides like regular speakers. This is true for other planers like electrostatic speakers as well. If you are away from them a bit and toe them in properly they will cover a large area.

3. The rear radiates equal to the front and the backwave is why distance form the wall behind is recommended. I have found about 3' to work fine with 2' a little close, but with the room you have you can move them a little further apart and toe them just a little to increase the effective distance to the wall behind them. Another option, and the one I am using in a small room, is to treat the wall behind them and kill the back wave.

4. I have not really noticed my CC3 messing up the sound for movies; I would not watch a movie without it. The center supports a lot of the dialogue and just general sound in a movie. The Maggie center is curved to provide wider horizontal coverage than their panels, and for me really helps fill in the middle. I do not use it when listening to music. I had a nice Infinity center in the system for a while and it did not blend well. I do feel the center helps a lot for movies and doesn't mess up the L/R sound, but maybe I am paying more attention to the movie. YMMV.

5. Magnepans are not a highly reactive load. They are among the flattest in terms of loading (little change form their 4-ohm rating), but do present a lower 4-ohm load compared to a typical 8-ohm nominal speaker. There's a slight reactive bump around the crossover frequency, and the ribbon tweeter drops as little in impedance at high frequencies (to perhaps 3 - 3.5 ohms due to Magnepan's crossover design), but it's nothing like the wild impedance ride a lot of speakers present to an amp. They are not terribly efficient so do appreciate a bit of power, but I have used mine with <100 W/ch and they sounded fine to me. Depends on how loud and how far away you are... I would try with your receiver and see how they sound. If you need an amp, Emotiva, Outlaw, etc. plus numerous pro amps are available with plenty of power into 4 ohms for not a lot of extra money. They do need a good sub (as do most speakers).

All IMO - Don

p.s. I would be looking to step up to 1.7's or 3.7's in that room...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #7 of 35 Old 02-25-2012, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

it's the low output impedance that is critical, and that is because they are very reactive, and have different amounts of reactance at different frequencies. A lot of amps go crazy and distort like hell with that kind of load; even some that have very high power ratings. It has to do with the design of the amplifier's internal feedback loop, and how that reacts to the phase shift caused by the speakers.

There is a lot of hot air blowing around here.

Listen to Don who gave you good advice.

Maggies are almost purely resistive and very stable load at 4 Ohms. They do not dip below 4 Ohms. If you receiver can handle that, you will be fine.

Maggies work remarkably well in a home theater set-up. Ignore all nonsense about narrow spot.

CC3 is no longer manufactured and seldom comes up for sale used. The new CC5 does not go below 200 Hz, and requires a bit involving set-up that essentially circumvents how a HT receiver is meant to be used. A pair of MMGs works well for CC duties in a dual mono set-up. Check out the manual for MC1 for how to connect two speakers in dual mono configuration. MMG would be flanking your screen, and generating a solid CC image.

With a sub in the mix (as Don mentioned), you can have a great HT set-up. Maggies are fantastic.
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post #8 of 35 Old 02-25-2012, 05:54 AM
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If they will fit through the door then, yes, you can put them in your room.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #9 of 35 Old 02-25-2012, 07:02 AM
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+1 to the posts above, Don, Sdv.

People who say that Maggies are not good for HT or that they have a narrow spot have not really owned them. They either heard them briefly at the store or just read others write such nonsense. I used to have the MG12 with a Rotel RB-1080 amp which is rated as 200W into 8 ohms. The problem is not the amp, it is the inadequate pre-out voltage with most AVR's. I even tried the 2ch analog pre-amp by Emotiva. They brag that the pre-out voltage is 9V max but I doubt so. I had as much trouble with the Emotiva USP-1 in driving the MG12's loud as I had with the Denon 3310 as a pre-amp.

So even if you have a powerful amp, you will be limited by the low pre-out voltage on most AVR's, which is 1 to 1.2V max. At moderate listening levels you may only get some 0.6V. At high volume levels there will also be more distortion at the AVR pre-outs. I did drive the MG12's using the Yamaha RX-V663. It was ok for low volume listening. I also tried a bump box like Samson to bump up the pre-out voltage of my Denon 3310. They dont make it any more.

I sold the MG12's mainly because my room was just too small for them. I had them almost at the middle of my room and that put the seating against the back wall which is not good.

If you are the only listener, you can use a third MMG as a center. Yes you can call Magnepan to send you a single MMG.

Note that the factory stand for the MMG gives a tilt backwards. They sound better if they are straight. I removed the factory stand for the MG12's and got steel brackets from LOWES. They are thick 10"x10" L-brackets and the holes also match those on the factory stand. There was still some tilt backwards. They also sound better if they are raised off the floor. So I built stands (like a box) using MDF to raise them by some 10" off the floor.
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post #10 of 35 Old 02-25-2012, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

Note that the factory stand for the MMG gives you a tit backwards.

well, THAT'S certainly a unique feature...

op, listen to don/spv/mupi...

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post #11 of 35 Old 02-25-2012, 09:04 AM
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I think you are confusing two different things.

I am talking about the fact that the load of the speakers has substantial capacitive reactance or inductive reactance at certain frequencies; this is a well-known and well-documented characteristic of these speakers and there is no question about it. Read any article about them and you will almost always find this discussed at some length.

You seem to be addressing the issue of IMPEDANCE CHANGES, not the reactance of the speakers, which is a related but quite different issue.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Hmmm...

5. Magnepans are not a highly reactive load. They are among the flattest in terms of loading (little change form their 4-ohm rating), but do present a lower 4-ohm load compared to a typical 8-ohm nominal speaker. There's a slight reactive bump around the crossover frequency, and the ribbon tweeter drops as little in impedance at high frequencies (to perhaps 3 - 3.5 ohms due to Magnepan's crossover design), but it's nothing like the wild impedance ride a lot of speakers present to an amp.

All IMO - Don

p.s. I would be looking to step up to 1.7's or 3.7's in that room...

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post #12 of 35 Old 02-25-2012, 09:08 AM
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Please see my post #11 above. I think you need more technical expertise to fully understand what I said, which is not hot air, but a well-known fact about Magneplanar speakers which you can find discussed in many articles about them.

A friend of mine had a store where he sold them for years, and we DID find that many amps that would work well with most speakers performed poorly with magneplanars. THE MAGNEPLANAR COMPANY acknowledged this issue and advised him which amplifiers would work best with their difficult load characteristics.

On thing that should be said, however, is that tests on the 1.7 show that they are MUCH better in this respect than some other Magneplanar models have been. Their impedance and reactance curves do not represent a particularly difficult load.

Thank You



Quote:
Originally Posted by sdv5 View Post

There is a lot of hot air blowing around here.

Listen to Don who gave you good advice.

Maggies are almost purely resistive and very stable load at 4 Ohms. They do not dip below 4 Ohms. If you receiver can handle that, you will be fine.

Maggies work remarkably well in a home theater set-up. Ignore all nonsense about narrow spot.

CC3 is no longer manufactured and seldom comes up for sale used. The new CC5 does not go below 200 Hz, and requires a bit involving set-up that essentially circumvents how a HT receiver is meant to be used. A pair of MMGs works well for CC duties in a dual mono set-up. Check out the manual for MC1 for how to connect two speakers in dual mono configuration. MMG would be flanking your screen, and generating a solid CC image.

With a sub in the mix (as Don mentioned), you can have a great HT set-up. Maggies are fantastic.

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post #13 of 35 Old 02-25-2012, 10:01 AM
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OP
One could read a lot and look at a lot of curves/measurements, but there is no substitute to try it out in one's own home. MMG comes with 60-day home trial. If you cant use the MMG vertically as a center, use it horizontally. You will have to do some DIY for a horizontal stand to tilt it. It is not mandatory that you use a planar center. Sure you will not have timbre matching. Heck man I have used B&W 602 S2 for fronts and Klipsch RC3 for center!!. We dont live in a perfect world. The CC3 was $999 when it was current. Even used CC3 would run for $700. So a planar center is going to be an expensive proposition. Using MMG as a center is an alternative option, especially if you are the only listener and dont have a big budget. There is a low end center channel speaker by Magnepan, MMGC $299 factory direct. It has decent reviews. It may not be a bad option with the MMG's as fronts. If you use the MMG vertically you wont have a problem even if there are more listeners. Only if you use it horizontally then the sweet spot for the center channel is limited to the main listener. You can test this by standing up and sitting down in front of a vertical MMG. See how the sound (especially highs) disappears when your head is above the ribbon.

It makes no sense to buy a $2000 Bryston amp for a $600/pair MMG or even a the $1200/pair MG12. An used Rotel RB1080 in good shape can be bought from Audiogon for $600. Make sure it is from the original owner.

If you are going for the MG1.7, then it makes sense to invest on a more expensive amp. If weight is an issue try amps like WIRED 4 SOUND. They are not cheap. They are like $1500-2000. Also note that WIRED 1000W amp has such a low sensitivity of 2.9V. Low in the sense that you need 2.9V to get full power out of it and no AVR on this planet is going to give you 2.9V even at max. volume. So a $2000 WIRED 4 SOUBND 1000W amp is going to be just as good as a $600 used Rotel RB-1080 as for as power is concerned. I had a long discussion with the guy at WIRED and decided to get an used Rotel. I still use the Rotel amp. So dont be fooled by the power rating of the high power amps. Check their sensitivity. You dont want amps that have higher than some 1.2V as your AVR just cant get enough juice of of the amp.

Analog 2ch pre-amps dont have lot of bass management options or room correction. Emotiva USP-1 and Parasound analog pre-amp have bass management options but they have limitations. I didnt feel that the USP-1 was delivering high pre-out voltage as they claim. If it is 9V max then even at low volume I should have gotten some 3V which would have been plenty to drive the Rotel RB-1080 but I dont think it was the case. I didnt measure it but I could feel that it was as hard to drive the Rotel with the USP-1 as with my Denon 3310.

First try the MMG's with your Yamaha and go from their. It comes with a 60-day trial. After all you just lose some $40 in shipping. Your local Magnepan dealer may also have the MMG. In fact I borrowed the MMG's from the dealer for home auditioning with a credit card deposit. I wanted a bit more bass as I was hoping to use them as full range with a 2ch analog pre-amp. So I tried the MG12, liked it and bought it. But I ended up using them with a sub as the 2ch analog pre-amp didnt work out. If you have a sub, you dont need the MG12. But the MG12 sure has a much bigger sound stage than the MMG. You just cant get that kind of sound stage from box speakers in that price range.

I also listened to the Vandersteen 2CE Signature side by side with the MG1.6 (old) at the store and I liked the MG1.6. If you have a big room and enough power, the Magnepans including the MMG's give you the best bang for the buck for 2ch music. For HT, you can still make it happen with a vertical MMG.
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post #14 of 35 Old 02-25-2012, 02:44 PM
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Impedance is the sum of real and imaginary parts of a complex number. The real part of impedance is resistive, the imaginary part is reactive.

Z = R + jX

Reactance can be inductive or capacitive.

XL = 2*pi*f*L
XC = 1/(2*pi*f*C)

Amps generally do best with resistive loads; most handle inductive loads reasonably well assuming there's enough resistance at low frequency, but struggle with highly-capacitive loads as they can dip very low in impedance at high frequencies.

I have not seen an article citing Manepan's having a difficult (low) reactive load; could you provide a link? Most of the plots I have seen indicate a fairly resistive load across frequency. Perhaps I have not read the right article. I suppose you'll just have to trust me when I say I do understand the techie-speak...

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post #15 of 35 Old 02-25-2012, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the responses and recommendations. After careful thought I'll buy the MMGs in the next month or so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

If they will fit through the door then, yes, you can put them in your room.

The den has French doors so I believe I can physically move them in

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdv5 View Post

T
Maggies are almost purely resistive and very stable load at 4 Ohms. They do not dip below 4 Ohms. If you receiver can handle that, you will be fine.

As stated the integrated amp drove 4 ohm speakers for years in a primary system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdv5 View Post

With a sub in the mix (as Don mentioned), you can have a great HT set-up. Maggies are fantastic.

I actually have three in the room - two Emo 12s and an SVS so that should be covered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

It is not mandatory that you use a planar center. Sure you will not have timbre matching.

I plan on using the existing Paradigm center and suspect I'll be pleased or go with a phantom center if necessary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

If you have a big room and enough power, the Magnepans including the MMG's give you the best bang for the buck for 2ch music. For HT, you can still make it happen with a vertical MMG.

See above and if I need more balls I can drive them with my McIntosh MC2205.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

Analog 2ch pre-amps dont have lot of bass management options or room correction.

My receiver has preamp ins so the management is covered but no correction. However the room is acoustically treated with broadband absorbers and bass traps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

Note that the factory stand for the MMG gives a tilt backwards. They sound better if they are straight. I removed the factory stand for the MG12's and got steel brackets from LOWES. They are thick 10"x10" L-brackets and the holes also match those on the factory stand. There was still some tilt backwards. They also sound better if they are raised off the floor. So I built stands (like a box) using MDF to raise them by some 10" off the floor.

When I first thought about doing this a year ago I had read this - thanks for reminding me.

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post #16 of 35 Old 02-25-2012, 04:20 PM
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I have a pair of MG II's that are great for home theater. I have them about a foot from the wall for aesthetic reasons and they sound fantastic. The sound when sitting in the middle is better than off to a side, but it's as true for my maggies as every other speaker I own. My other 3 speakers (and sub) are not Magnepans and I've never felt it was an issue.

I use a Marantz 100 wpc receiver to drive my 5.1 system and for more than 10 years, I've been able to play as loud as I want without any issues.

I think Magnepans are the best sounding speakers you can get for the money. They have 2 problems. They're very large and they need a subwoofer. If you have room for them, I recommend getting them.
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post #17 of 35 Old 02-25-2012, 04:22 PM
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Couple of impedance (magnitude and phase) plots to compare:

Magnepan 3.7: http://www.stereophile.com/content/m...r-measurements

B&W 802D: http://www.stereophile.com/content/b...r-measurements

The articles describe the Maggies as fairly easy to drive and the B&W's as rather difficult. This matches my experience with both brands...

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post #18 of 35 Old 02-25-2012, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

I suppose you'll just have to trust me when I say I do understand the techie-speak...

well, considering your bona fides are readily available with a quick google search, trust isn't necessary...

unlike with a certain other poster...

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post #19 of 35 Old 02-26-2012, 07:53 AM
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Shoot, reminds me I need to update Linked In...

With a username like "commsysman" I assume he an engineering background, though communication theory made my head hurt (I did get A's in my grad courses oh so long ago, but don't remember much). I am just a simple analog guy... I have not seen anything leading me to believe Maggies present a nasty reactive load, but am interested to see the data. Only thing I have noticed is the usual crossover bump and falling impedance due to the ribbon tweeter. I find most conventional speakers much worse, and electrostats often get very low at HF since they are one big capacitor.

He did start by saying they are wonderful speakers! I am more than willing to try to understand his point of view.

Onwards - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #20 of 35 Old 02-26-2012, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

I have a pair of MG II's that are great for home theater. I have them about a foot from the wall for aesthetic reasons and they sound fantastic. The sound when sitting in the middle is better than off to a side, but it's as true for my maggies as every other speaker I own. My other 3 speakers (and sub) are not Magnepans and I've never felt it was an issue.

I use a Marantz 100 wpc receiver to drive my 5.1 system and for more than 10 years, I've been able to play as loud as I want without any issues.

I think Magnepans are the best sounding speakers you can get for the money. They have 2 problems. They're very large and they need a subwoofer. If you have room for them, I recommend getting them.

Other then a different model (I have MMG's) this describes my experience perfectly.

Loud is relative. If people are expecting these Maggies to play at 125 db's they will be disappointed. For me, my peaks with movies, rarely go much above 90 and with music never do.

My other caution is the Maggie community. They seem to have drunk and fully embraced every bit of audio foolery known, plus some unique to Magnepans.
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post #21 of 35 Old 02-28-2012, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by citizen arcane View Post

Kinda been thinking about upgrading and Maggies have been on my mind lately.

Look at pics of my room here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post20023194

and scroll to post 1608 for a better overview. The room is 16x20 with the speakers on the long side of the room. The Maggies would be 2 feet from the front wall and 5 feet from the sides - with adjusting within this space for best sound and placement/integration with the subs. Seating is 9 feet from the speakers with 4 feet behind

I'd like to use my current 6 y.o. Yamaha 650 receiver to power but could add an '80s 100w/ 2 channels Yamaha integrated amp or a 200w/ 2 channels McIntosh amp (though I prefer not lugging the 85 lb. beastie out of my 2 channel set up). I've driven 4 ohm speakers with the receiver (for a very short while) and int. amp (as a main system) before. I really don't want to buy additional amps or receiver and would be a deal breaker on the speakers.

A concern would be the center channel - I didn't check the dimensions and could use some advice there for sure.

I use this room 80/20 for music/movies and would like to do this as inexpensively as possible with new speakers.

Just wondering, have you made a final decession yet??

Check out my WAF approved living room theater....now featuring a Submersive!

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1526916/my...-1-living-room
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post #22 of 35 Old 02-29-2012, 12:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by madhuski View Post

Just wondering, have you made a final decession yet??

Considering the room is treated, I have dual Emotiva ultra sub 12s, my receiver has preouts, I own a McIntosh MC2205 to drive them (stable to 1 ohm), seemingly optimum placement and seating positions - it's a go.

The only real hang up is......color. My other speakers in this set up are grey and am debating that.

¿lɐɯɹou ǝq ʎɥʍ

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post #23 of 35 Old 02-29-2012, 04:21 AM
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The maggies will sound great, just don't expect them to be able to hit reference levels and you'll be just fine.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #24 of 35 Old 02-29-2012, 06:06 AM
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My 1.6's & MMGs are grey and look fine, besides that you can change the color of the sock if you really don't like what you get. All the staples are a pain but it's not deal breaker. I run mine without a center in two HT setups, one a projector and one a plasma, without feeling that I am missing something. With the projector the dialog actually tracks with the actors across the screen, something I never got when using conventional centers.
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post #25 of 35 Old 02-29-2012, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

The maggies will sound great, just don't expect them to be able to hit reference levels and you'll be just fine.

Plenty of people hit reference and beyond with their Maggies. It takes more power and they will not play as loudly as some conventional speakers, but most of the "they don't play loud enough" comments I have read are not from owners. There is some truth to the rumor since they do take more power and like other planers do not have the large excursion of conventional drivers (they must make it up with panel area). However, I think it is often over-stated.

YMMV - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #26 of 35 Old 02-29-2012, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Plenty of people hit reference and beyond with their Maggies. It takes more power and they will not play as loudly as some conventional speakers, but most of the "they don't play loud enough" comments I have read are not from owners. There is some truth to the rumor since they do take more power and like other planers do not have the large excursion of conventional drivers (they must make it up with panel area). However, I think it is often over-stated.

YMMV - Don

If they're in a pretty small room they could do it. I wouldn't expect it to do it in a room that's very large.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #27 of 35 Old 02-29-2012, 07:48 PM
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A friend reaches 105+ dB with 3.7's in a 16' x 20' x 9' - 12' (valuted ceiling).
Whatever.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #28 of 35 Old 03-01-2012, 03:06 AM
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That's only 2880 ft2. Look, I'm not knocking Maggie's. I love them and think they're incredible for 2 channel listening. HT just isn't their strong suit. Will they be fine for the vast majority of folks? Ya, they will. But not for us HT nut bags because we're always looking for that last little bit that makes our HT systems blow away 90% of the other systems that are out there.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #29 of 35 Old 03-01-2012, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

That's only 2880 ft2. Look, I'm not knocking Maggie's. I love them and think they're incredible for 2 channel listening. HT just isn't their strong suit. Will they be fine for the vast majority of folks? Ya, they will. But not for us HT nut bags because we're always looking for that last little bit that makes our HT systems blow away 90% of the other systems that are out there.

What's the difference between Home theater and music? Isn't sound reproduction the same regardless of the source material? Maybe movies tend to have more LFE, but that's why you need to get a powered sub to compliment the maggies.

To the OP,
I have dual Ultra 12's also. I bought them when they were $329 on clearance. I haven't had a chance to use them yet.
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post #30 of 35 Old 03-01-2012, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

What's the difference between Home theater and music? Isn't sound reproduction the same regardless of the source material? Maybe movies tend to have more LFE, but that's why you need to get a powered sub to compliment the maggies.

To the OP,
I have dual Ultra 12's also. I bought them when they were $329 on clearance. I haven't had a chance to use them yet.

A lot if you are concerned with hitting reference level without compression or distortion. Music tends to have much less dynamic range than movies so it is more forgiving on speakers. If you don't play movies very loud then it's a moot point.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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