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post #31 of 64 Old 02-27-2012, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawie01 View Post

Wow!! I wish I knew this stuff like you guys or gals (do want to be sexest here). But that's why we come here to get info & learn. Man I will be rereading theses posts for awhile.

Here is a tidbit that might help. Frequencies below 80 or 90hz is considered non directional. In that you hear it but can't really tell where it is coming from. Frequency above that you can tell where they are coming from (the sub or the speaker) that is why generally you want to set the crossover below that from the speaker to the sub.

My review comparisons of Energy RC-70s to Veritas V6.3
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post #32 of 64 Old 02-27-2012, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

Yeah, most AVRs nowadays WILL pass the full LFE channel to the sub regardless of the crossover settings at the other channels. But commsysman is recommending using the sub's own low-pass filter.

Completely understood.

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post #33 of 64 Old 02-27-2012, 07:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I set the subs xover all the way up and use avr sub setting
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post #34 of 64 Old 02-27-2012, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawie01 View Post

I set the subs xover all the way up and use avr sub setting

If you have one, be sure you are leaving the AVR LFE setting on 120hz.

Your questions are answered:
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post #35 of 64 Old 02-28-2012, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Another sub question- Do ya'll run a single cable to the LFE or run a Y-splitter to both sub inputs? I tried both quickly & noticed that the double cable made the sub a tad louder. Not sure if it was just louder or improved SQ as well.
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post #36 of 64 Old 02-28-2012, 08:10 AM
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Running a Y-cable cable to both doubles the signal; 3db more input; makes it louder.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kawie01 View Post

Another sub question- Do ya'll run a single cable to the LFE or run a Y-splitter to both sub inputs? I tried both quickly & noticed that the double cable made the sub a tad louder. Not sure if it was just louder or improved SQ as well.

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post #37 of 64 Old 02-28-2012, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

Running a Y-cable cable to both doubles the signal; 3db more input; makes it louder.

I don't think this is correct. A passive splitter cannot amplify. The impedance would change though.
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post #38 of 64 Old 02-28-2012, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawie01 View Post

Another sub question- Do ya'll run a single cable to the LFE or run a Y-splitter to both sub inputs? I tried both quickly & noticed that the double cable made the sub a tad louder. Not sure if it was just louder or improved SQ as well.

Using a Y-splitter increases the input signal to the sub. All other settings left the same, the exact volume increase that provides varies a bit from sub to sub and AVR to AVR. But it doesn't give you any increase in volume that you can't get by turning the sub's master volume up by that same amount or by increasing the AVR's subwoofer level trim by that same amount. A Y-splitter can't increase the sub's overall headroom.

You are going to adjust the sub to the same output level whether you use the Y-splitter or not, right? So, it doesn't provide any benefit. There are some instances where a Y-splitter might help when a sub's Auto-ON feature does not function properly. Otherwise, there is no need to use a Y-splitter with an AVR's mono subwoofer signal.

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post #39 of 64 Old 02-28-2012, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Leaving master volume alone on the sub, I noticed a jump in volume with the splitter. I don't recall by how much on my SPL meter, but was noticeable.
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post #40 of 64 Old 02-28-2012, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawie01 View Post

Leaving master volume alone on the sub, I noticed a jump in volume with the splitter.

Yeah, that's right. Did you read my post 2 up from this one? If you use Audyssey to calibrate your sub's level, that "jump in volume" will be negated when you recalibrate.

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post #41 of 64 Old 02-28-2012, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

using a y-splitter increases the input signal to the sub. All other settings left the same, the exact volume increase that provides varies a bit from sub to sub and avr to avr. But it doesn't give you any increase in volume that you can't get by turning the sub's master volume up by that same amount or by increasing the avr's subwoofer level trim by that same amount. A y-splitter can't increase the sub's overall headroom.

You are going to adjust the sub to the same output level whether you use the y-splitter or not, right? So, it doesn't provide any benefit. There are some instances where a y-splitter might help when a sub's auto-on feature does not function properly. Otherwise, there is no need to use a y-splitter with an avr's mono subwoofer signal.

+1

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post #42 of 64 Old 02-28-2012, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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sorry sivadselim, I was in a hurry reading your post. Yes- I understand.
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post #43 of 64 Old 02-28-2012, 02:38 PM
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I have tried setting mains to large, and I have B&W 600 series towers. It's no good. (a) they can't go as low as my sub and (b) I feel that when they do try to produce the low bass they don't do the best job (and I produce no proof for this, but I feel it compromises the mid bass a bit as well.)

I feel it's best to set all speakers to small and let the sub do it's job. I know the sub carries a heavy load, so that is a potential concern. I say buy a competent sub if that's a concern. I run 2 subs to attempt to even out low bass response and to distribute the load a bit.

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post #44 of 64 Old 02-28-2012, 02:41 PM
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I use a Y just because the manufaturer recomended it.

My review comparisons of Energy RC-70s to Veritas V6.3
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post #45 of 64 Old 02-28-2012, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

Running a Y-cable cable to both doubles the signal; 3db more input; makes it louder.

You crack me up! The splitter is not going to do jack! However, to give you some credit, having two subs will raise the in room bass dBs slightly.

Sounds good!
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post #46 of 64 Old 02-28-2012, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawie01 View Post

Another sub question- Do ya'll run a single cable to the LFE or run a Y-splitter to both sub inputs? I tried both quickly & noticed that the double cable made the sub a tad louder. Not sure if it was just louder or improved SQ as well.

What sub do you have again? Does it have just a L and R input or is there a specific LFE input? You were probably hearing things. Possibly a fuller range on the sub??

Sounds good!
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post #47 of 64 Old 02-28-2012, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I have 2 Klipsch SW 450. Maybe fuller sound. I am sure that is why (been a while) I went back to both inputs b/c sound was louder. I dont recall what my SPL read. It was higher though. I may have to retry.
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post #48 of 64 Old 02-28-2012, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlsaudio View Post

You were probably hearing things.

No, he wasn't. Everything else left untouched and unchanged, inserting a Y-splitter will result in an increase in output.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kawie01 View Post

Maybe fuller sound.

Just louder. No difference in quality.

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post #49 of 64 Old 02-28-2012, 10:16 PM
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Riiiiiiiight

Explain to me the circuitry that would cause this. One signal going to the SW. Which is a mono signal. Split in half at the SW. Going back into one wire from the connector plate to the amp on the inside.
The only way I can see how the volume would increase would be two separate sources.
I just tried this trick with my sub and there was NO change in volume.

Sounds good!
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post #50 of 64 Old 02-29-2012, 02:36 AM
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A wire with gain? Sort of the holy grail of amplification .
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post #51 of 64 Old 02-29-2012, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


If you have one, be sure you are leaving the AVR LFE setting on 120hz.

Not an absolute rule. In fact, the better advice might be to lower it to 80 Hz since there are some lazy mixes that have garbage on the LFE channel, particularly multichannel music. It is an issue reported and documented by several AVS'ers I trust so I haven't bothered to test the theory yet, but I have lowered mine to 80 Hz and haven't seemed to miss anything. YMMV

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post #52 of 64 Old 02-29-2012, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlsaudio View Post

Riiiiiiiight

Explain to me the circuitry that would cause this. One signal going to the SW. Which is a mono signal. Split in half at the SW. Going back into one wire from the connector plate to the amp on the inside.
The only way I can see how the volume would increase would be two separate sources.
I just tried this trick with my sub and there was NO change in volume.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

A wire with gain? Sort of the holy grail of amplification .

Not even really worthy of discussion. The Y-adapter doesn't just simply split the pre-amp level signal 'in half'. And the sub sums the R/L inputs.

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post #53 of 64 Old 02-29-2012, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

For best bass, you really don't want the center speaker putting out much bass. Set it to roll off at 100 Hz or as high as 150 Hz, and concentrate on getting the sub to work well with the main front speakers for the clearest best-defined bass.

The front speakers should run full-range (large). The rears should probably set to roll off at 80 hz.

The sub will probably work best if you set the receiver for the highest subwoofer f setting and set the subs rolloff knob to 60-80 Hz. make small adjustments and listen for the clearest mid-bass.

Sorry, but this is just flat out incorrect.
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post #54 of 64 Old 02-29-2012, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

I don't think this is correct. A passive splitter cannot amplify. The impedance would change though.

It is, actually.
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post #55 of 64 Old 02-29-2012, 11:17 AM
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I agree with the fact that using a y spliter 100% increases the volume of the sub on my sub it doesn't have a lpf input it has left and right and as said does add a couple of dbs.

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post #56 of 64 Old 02-29-2012, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottthehat View Post

I agree with the fact that using a y spliter 100% increases the volume of the sub on my sub it doesn't have a lpf input it has left and right and as said does add a couple of dbs.

Exactly 3 dB.

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post #57 of 64 Old 02-29-2012, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

Exactly 3 dB.

Well, it can vary, actually.

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post #58 of 64 Old 02-29-2012, 09:37 PM
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You didn't answer my question.

Sounds good!
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post #59 of 64 Old 02-29-2012, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlsaudio View Post

You didn't answer my question.

OK, I'll try.

We're talking about a line level signal, here, which means we're dealing with voltage. When you split a line level signal into two inputs, as long as the input impedances are relatively high compared to the output impedance, there shouldn't be much of a (if any) voltage drop in the system. The sub's inputs do have a high impedance and the AVR's sub pre-out does have a relatively low impedance. As I said, the Y adapter doesn't just simply split the voltage in half. It doesn't work that way. Potentially, the same voltage signal can reach each of the sub's inputs as would reach a single input were only one input used. And since the sub sums the inputs, the result is a higher input signal to the sub's amp than would be there were only one input used, which results in an increase in output.

The same sort of thing happens when a Y adapter is used to split a line level signal into two separate subs, or into a sub and an amp, or into 2 separate amps. As long as the signal is feeding inputs with relatively high impedances, there is no appreciable signal loss. It is certainly not split in half. Ask anyone who uses multiple Y adapters to connect multiple subs if they think there is significant signal loss across the Y adapters.

The exact increase in output that results from using a Y adapter and both of a sub's inputs has been measured and reported here in these forums many, many times. It's real. It's just not a useful and/or usable increase.


Now, I may have boogered something up in that explanation. I'm not an EE. Maybe someone else can explain it more succinctly or in more understandable or simpler terms than that. You can also read, yourself, about how line level signals behave when they're split into high impedance inputs.

But that is about as much time as I want to waste on this.

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post #60 of 64 Old 03-01-2012, 12:40 AM
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I don't know the exact db just know that's how i use mine and it does make a noticeable difference.

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