2 Energy RC-LCR for stereo setup? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 03-07-2012, 09:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking for direction in building my first real sound system. Bought Energy RC-10 for $300 but a little underwhelmed and considering returning them. Hard to put my finger on it but I think that I am looking for a bigger sound. Considering two Energy RC-LCR in a stereo setup and possibly adding a sub later for 2.1.
Question is: how is the RC-LCR for music? Is it fatiguing? Is it worth almost twice as much as the RC-10s I have now? Will I still want a sub with two RC-LCRs? Maybe I should just spring for the RC-70s now even though they are a safety hazard, more than I intended to spend, and take up precious floor space?
A little background on my situation is that I am currently renting so I want a system that will work in my odd shaped living room now and also be able to work in future homes. What I really want is the Energy RC-70 but I have a 2 and 1 year old and am concerned about them knocking over towers.
I am auditioning the RC-10s with a Lepai T amp LP-2020A+ which could be why I am a little underwhelmed by the RC-10s. The current plan is to get a Harmon Kardon HK3490 when it is back in stock at J&R for $280. I will be streaming 320kpbs MP3 from my computer through Sony SMP-N200 Media Player along with internet radio and tv and movies. I will be using 80% music and 20% tv and movies.
I am enjoying building this system but it has taken over my life and I am just ready to enjoy the music! Your help is appreciated.
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post #2 of 24 Old 03-07-2012, 09:52 PM
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If you don't like the way the RC-10 sounds, RC-LCRs are a mistake.

By bigger sound, do you mean more low end extension? Do you mean something that will play to higher SPL? What are you looking for exactly?
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post #3 of 24 Old 03-08-2012, 12:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Good point.
I wish I knew exactly what I am looking for in this system. I am now considering everything from going down to the Infinity P-162 all the way up to the Energy RC-70!
What I was hoping to get from the RC-LRC over the RC-10 was more captivating vocal reproduction from the two 2" chambered aluminium cone midranges and more of the available low end from the two extra 5.5" woofers.
I am not expecting the two 5.5" woofers to sound like a 10" woofer but maybe that is more along the lines of what I am looking for when I speak of a big sound.
I set my Dad up with a pair of the Infinity P-162 and when I first turned them on I was jealous of that bigger speaker sound which to me is a fuller warmer sound. After a little more listening I realized how much more refined the RC-10 is compared to the Infinity with the highs being smoother and clearer and the bass tighter. Keep in mind that I am not an experienced evaluator of sound systems and these speakers are pretty much fresh out of the box.
I could certainly keep the RC-10s but I just keep thinking that I can do better with more of what the RC-10 does well which seems to me could be the RC-LCR.
I am tempted to make this a budget system and keep the RC-10s and add a Hsu STF-1 and the HK3490 and call it a day. But I don't want to miss out on the opportunity to hit one out of the park.
It seems like there are so many good options that I don't know how to pick and auditioning is near impossible due to location.
I was thinking about the Boston Acoustics E-60 maybe those with the Hsu sub could give me more detail and clarity that I think I am after.
Thanks for the help!
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post #4 of 24 Old 03-08-2012, 12:25 AM
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Have you broke in the 10s?

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #5 of 24 Old 03-08-2012, 01:12 AM
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Quote:


I was thinking about the Boston Acoustics E-60 maybe those with the Hsu sub could give me more detail and clarity that I think I am after.
Thanks for the help!

If you're thinking about the Boston Acoustics speakers the VS260 is better than the E-60. And there was someone who upgraded from RC-10s to the VS260 and said the Bostons were another level or two above the RC-10. For $500 they would be hard to beat if you can still find them. They normally go for $700 each.

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post #6 of 24 Old 03-08-2012, 04:13 AM
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I think that the pair of RC-LCRs would differ from your RC-10s in just the way you expect, when used as a stereo pair. Many owners (including myself) report an extended break-in time for this particular speaker, so be warned.

Once again, I am sorry to take a sledgehammer to so small and fragile a nut. -- Richard Dawkins, The Greatest Show On Earth
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post #7 of 24 Old 03-08-2012, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

If you're thinking about the Boston Acoustics speakers the VS260 is better than the E-60. And there was someone who upgraded from RC-10s to the VS260 and said the Bostons were another level or two above the RC-10. For $500 they would be hard to beat if you can still find them. They normally go for $700 each.

Problem is that Vann's is sold out and not getting any more in stock. Unless they magically reappear the way the Energy RC and Mirage OMD speakers did, used is the only way to get them now.

But if you can find them, I'd recommend them over the RC-10 and RC-LCR. The E-60 is supposed to be good as well. There's a member in the Boston thread that went from RC-50's to E-60's and felt it was an upgrade in transparency/resolution. In defense of the RC-50's though, his tower placement was far from ideal...
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post #8 of 24 Old 03-08-2012, 08:47 AM
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I suggest that you consider the Monitor Audio M6 speakers.

They have three 6.5-inch LF drivers and a very nice-sounding tweeter and would give exactly what you are looking for IMO. They are rated to go down to 32 Hz; that is some serious bass.

They have been selling for $650/pair, but they are going to be replaced by a new model this year and a couple of retailers have marked them down to $450/pair, which is a real steal!

IMO they are a much better-sounding speaker than what you have been considering, and the price is amazingly good right now.




Quote:
Originally Posted by phreedom76 View Post

Good point.
I wish I knew exactly what I am looking for in this system. I am now considering everything from going down to the Infinity P-162 all the way up to the Energy RC-70!
What I was hoping to get from the RC-LRC over the RC-10 was more captivating vocal reproduction from the two 2" chambered aluminium cone midranges and more of the available low end from the two extra 5.5" woofers.
I am not expecting the two 5.5" woofers to sound like a 10" woofer but maybe that is more along the lines of what I am looking for when I speak of a big sound.
I set my Dad up with a pair of the Infinity P-162 and when I first turned them on I was jealous of that bigger speaker sound which to me is a fuller warmer sound. After a little more listening I realized how much more refined the RC-10 is compared to the Infinity with the highs being smoother and clearer and the bass tighter. Keep in mind that I am not an experienced evaluator of sound systems and these speakers are pretty much fresh out of the box.
I could certainly keep the RC-10s but I just keep thinking that I can do better with more of what the RC-10 does well which seems to me could be the RC-LCR.

Thanks for the help!

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post #9 of 24 Old 03-08-2012, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phreedom76 View Post

Good point.
I wish I knew exactly what I am looking for in this system. I am now considering everything from going down to the Infinity P-162 all the way up to the Energy RC-70!
What I was hoping to get from the RC-LRC over the RC-10 was more captivating vocal reproduction from the two 2" chambered aluminium cone midranges and more of the available low end from the two extra 5.5" woofers.
I am not expecting the two 5.5" woofers to sound like a 10" woofer but maybe that is more along the lines of what I am looking for when I speak of a big sound.
I set my Dad up with a pair of the Infinity P-162 and when I first turned them on I was jealous of that bigger speaker sound which to me is a fuller warmer sound. After a little more listening I realized how much more refined the RC-10 is compared to the Infinity with the highs being smoother and clearer and the bass tighter. Keep in mind that I am not an experienced evaluator of sound systems and these speakers are pretty much fresh out of the box.
I could certainly keep the RC-10s but I just keep thinking that I can do better with more of what the RC-10 does well which seems to me could be the RC-LCR.
I am tempted to make this a budget system and keep the RC-10s and add a Hsu STF-1 and the HK3490 and call it a day. But I don't want to miss out on the opportunity to hit one out of the park.
It seems like there are so many good options that I don't know how to pick and auditioning is near impossible due to location.
I was thinking about the Boston Acoustics E-60 maybe those with the Hsu sub could give me more detail and clarity that I think I am after.
Thanks for the help!

Hey...I have the E60s. They are very good. More revealing and better tweeter then on the RC line. You will need a sub with them though as they only go to about 60hz. Not a boom box sub though as that will completely ruin their sound. Something sealed and good quality.

With a sub and crossed at 80hz, they handle unbelievable amounts of power. I run them with a 300watt/channel amp and they haven't complained yet...
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post #10 of 24 Old 03-08-2012, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phreedom76 View Post

I was thinking about the Boston Acoustics E-60 maybe those with the Hsu sub could give me more detail and clarity that I think I am after.
Thanks for the help!

I own both the VS260 and the E60 > the VS260 is a little better.
However, the E60 has real good resolution with about the same
detail, definition and depth - and throws a somewhat holographic
sound. You can not lose with the E60 - mate it with a good tight
and controlled sub, and you can have lots of joy and pleasure.
The bass on the E60 is real good to around 60-65 hz - there are
a lot of speakers with bigger woofers, that will not have the nice
musical bass, that the E60 has.

Harman Kardon 3490
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harman-Kardo...item5ae586df3e

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post #11 of 24 Old 03-08-2012, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewTT View Post

Hey...I have the E60s. .

With a sub and crossed at 80hz, they handle unbelievable amounts of power. I run them with a 300watt/channel amp and they haven't complained yet...

It will take a lot, to make that speaker burp.

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post #12 of 24 Old 03-08-2012, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks so much for all of your replies.

I am now leaning toward the Boston Acoustics E-60 because it sounds like they really may be worth the extra $190 over what I paid for the RC-10s. Gotta strike while the iron is hot as far as WAF right now so this is my chance to get some quality equipment!
One of my biggest concerns with the E-60 may be said of any bookshelf speaker paired with a sub: the mid bass is the weakest link. The sub takes care of the bottom end but if the E-60's are crossed over at 60-65 hz is there a sub under $500 that could admirably carry the space between the bottom and where the E-60s leave off?

I bring this up because one thing that got me excited about going for two of the Energy RC-LCRs is that the mid bass was one of its strong points and it could hand off just the lowest end to the sub (hopefully an inexpensive one). So, I thought the RC-LCR could carry the highs and mids without asking too much from the sub as far as mid bass.

I was thinking of the RC-LCR as a mini tower without true full range capability. Since, I think a tower is what I really want but because of current kids and potential future kids a tower just isn't in the cards for this phase of life. But my mini tower (RC-LCR) out of reach of said kids along with a sub to carry the bottom might be the dynamics I seek.
So, is the E-60 the best upgrade from RC-10 for around $300 extra ($600 total for the pair)? Will the E-60 be "full range" with a sub (not missing mid bass) and if so, which subs can you recommend to pair with the E-60? Which amplifier would work best for a 2.1 setup 80% music 20% HT (budget around $400)?

Just a note about breaking-in the RC-10: I don't know how to break-in a speaker I have played it at moderate volume for aprox. 18 hours and have noticed it settling in since first playing it. The RC-10 to me is a fine sounding speaker... but for some reason I am just not satisfied/excited and am looking for the biggest bang for my buck. The Monitor B6 and Energy RC-70s seem like excellent choices but towers and young kids just don't jive. And keep in mind that I am auditioning the RC-10s on a Lepai LP-2020A+ T amp...far from ideal!
Your assistance is much appreciated!
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post #13 of 24 Old 03-08-2012, 09:44 PM
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Only you can make the decision, and I will not tell you to forget about Energy.
The best way to so call break a speaker in, is to keep using it.

http://www.amazon.com/Boston-Acousti.../dp/B001H9O1CG
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...07-part-1.html

If you buy the E60, you would cross it over at 80 hz and not at 60 hz. With a
sub, the E60 will sound full and big. The subs I reccomend are, the Epik Legend
or the Rythmik FV12.
http://epiksubwoofers.com/legend.html
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV12.html

If mostly music, the Boston VPS210
http://www.accessories4less.com/make...e/1.html#!more

For stereo music, the HK 3490 will be fine and has plenty of power.

With the Denon 791 receiver, you can still do stereo music and you will get
bass management.
http://www.accessories4less.com/make...eceiver/1.html

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post #14 of 24 Old 03-09-2012, 05:08 AM
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Depending on your receiver or amp capabilities, consider Polk LSi9. They have impressive bass, good midrange and smooth highs. In your price range through Polk eBay store. I had RC-10s for a couple of weeks, the Polk produce tons more output. The HK3490 should have no problem powering them, my Onkyo TX-8050 2 channel receiver didn't struggle at all, and the two are very similar.

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post #15 of 24 Old 03-09-2012, 06:35 AM
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@phreedom76do you plan on putting a bookshelf (or RC-LCR) on speaker stands? If so, the footprint of them vs a tower speaker is basically the same. Your kids will be just as likely to knock them over as they would a tower. FYI - I have two crazy boys, ages 3 and 1 and they have not knocked over my tower speakers(knocking on wood).

I don't think you should eliminate speakers from your list based on how they sound while using an amp that you don't intend on usingand especially the Lepai. I've heard that's a nice little amp to give you some decent sound, but I doubt it would hold a candle to the HK you are looking at or another comparable receiver. And regarding your receiverI would try to get one with bass management/Audyssey (like Jim Z said) if you plan on getting a sub.

I will not tell you to forget about Boston Acoustics.

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it..._a_7c542469405

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/energy_rc10.htm

Seriously though, I own Energy products and have RC-10s, RC-70s and a RC-LCR. I started with a pair of RC-10s as front L/R and thought they were okay speakers in that role, but certainly felt they were lacking with certain types of music. The three-way design of the LCR will give you better clarity with voices and better bass response vs the RC-10s. I think you'd still want a sub if you went with the LCRs though. IMO, stepping up to the RC-70 will give you the clarity of the LCRs and much better bass response. I think if you went with 2 RC-70s you might not even need a sub for your 80% music listening. You'd be missing the deep bass in movies, but in an apartment setting, I'm not sure you'd want to be shaking the walls and floors too much anyway.

If you are set on bookshelf-type speakers and can afford them, I would recommend going with the LCRs or E-60s that have been mentioned, paired with a good sub. If you plan on putting them on speaker stands, I wouldn't rule out going with towers and think you should explore those options.
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post #16 of 24 Old 03-09-2012, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

I suggest that you consider the Monitor Audio M6 speakers.

/giggle
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post #17 of 24 Old 03-09-2012, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phreedom76 View Post

Thanks so much for all of your replies.

I am now leaning toward the Boston Acoustics E-60 because it sounds like they really may be worth the extra $190 over what I paid for the RC-10s. Gotta strike while the iron is hot as far as WAF right now so this is my chance to get some quality equipment!
One of my biggest concerns with the E-60 may be said of any bookshelf speaker paired with a sub: the mid bass is the weakest link. The sub takes care of the bottom end but if the E-60's are crossed over at 60-65 hz is there a sub under $500 that could admirably carry the space between the bottom and where the E-60s leave off?

I bring this up because one thing that got me excited about going for two of the Energy RC-LCRs is that the mid bass was one of its strong points and it could hand off just the lowest end to the sub (hopefully an inexpensive one). So, I thought the RC-LCR could carry the highs and mids without asking too much from the sub as far as mid bass.

I was thinking of the RC-LCR as a mini tower without true full range capability. Since, I think a tower is what I really want but because of current kids and potential future kids a tower just isn't in the cards for this phase of life. But my mini tower (RC-LCR) out of reach of said kids along with a sub to carry the bottom might be the dynamics I seek.
So, is the E-60 the best upgrade from RC-10 for around $300 extra ($600 total for the pair)? Will the E-60 be "full range" with a sub (not missing mid bass) and if so, which subs can you recommend to pair with the E-60? Which amplifier would work best for a 2.1 setup 80% music 20% HT (budget around $400)?

Just a note about breaking-in the RC-10: I don't know how to break-in a speaker I have played it at moderate volume for aprox. 18 hours and have noticed it settling in since first playing it. The RC-10 to me is a fine sounding speaker... but for some reason I am just not satisfied/excited and am looking for the biggest bang for my buck. The Monitor B6 and Energy RC-70s seem like excellent choices but towers and young kids just don't jive. And keep in mind that I am auditioning the RC-10s on a Lepai LP-2020A+ T amp...far from ideal!
Your assistance is much appreciated!

Also something to consider. Accessories4less.com has the Boston E70 for half off. That would make a killer LCR speaker. The E70 gets you an additional woofer.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make...-Cherry/1.html
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post #18 of 24 Old 03-09-2012, 12:26 PM
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/giggle
/snort


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post #19 of 24 Old 03-10-2012, 03:57 AM
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What this thread proves is that people love to go on about speakers even if that's not the point. He's using a 9 watt T-amp, that won't power any of these in a whole room.
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post #20 of 24 Old 03-10-2012, 07:33 AM
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His current amp is inadequate to drive practically anything, but he did say his plan was to get the Harmon-Kardon 3490 soon, so he must have figured that out.




Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzy_ View Post

What this thread proves is that people love to go on about speakers even if that's not the point. He's using a 9 watt T-amp, that won't power any of these in a whole room.

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post #21 of 24 Old 03-10-2012, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

His current amp is inadequate to drive practically anything, but he did say his plan was to get the Harmon-Kardon 3490 soon, so he must have figured that out.

X2 - this is what I read.

"I could certainly keep the RC-10s but I just keep thinking that I can do better with more of what the RC-10 does well which seems to me could be the RC-LCR.
I am tempted to make this a budget system and keep the RC-10s and add a Hsu STF-1 and the HK3490 and call it a day. But I don't want to miss out on the opportunity to hit one out of the park.
I was thinking about the Boston Acoustics E-60 maybe those with the Hsu sub could give me more detail and clarity that I think I am after."

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Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #22 of 24 Old 03-10-2012, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again for all of the replies...

To follow up on the amp situation - I ordered the Behringer A500 amp along with the Energy RC-10s just to have an amp to audition the RC-10s. After doing more research on the Behringer I decided that it had too many reliability issues and did not have digital inputs that I decided is necessary.

Unfortunately, I sent it back just a couple days ago after receiving the Lepai and not really being able to tell a big difference between the two for my purposes which is playing the RC-10s at moderate volume to break them in. To be fair to the Behringer I wasn't really auditioning it as I had already decided to send it back and now I wish I would have kept it longer to be sure the RC-10s are getting enough wattage.

Looking at best bang for buck I could get two Energy RC-70s for $1,000 or a pair of Boston Acoustics E-60 ($540) and the Boston Acoustics VPS 210 ($500) for about the same. If one setup was significantly better than the other I would appreciate your input. Or if there is a different hopefully bookshelf & sub combination in this range or less that could best the Boston setup please let me know.

I am still hesitant about towers because of safety concerns with young kids and the large footprint. But, if they would be significantly better than the Boston setup mentioned above I might be swayed in that direction. We currently rent a single family home and no apartments will be in our future.

Also, the Boston VPS 210 sub mentioned above is a factory refurbished model. I am a bit hesitant about it being refurbished and I saw that Vann's had the same sub for $350 a few months ago. The cheapest new price I have seen is $700.

I have done next to no research on subs and am considering going for the Boston E-60s as an upgrade to the RC-10s and waiting for a deal on a sub to come along at a later time. Unless, the $500 refurbished one is a deal I should jump on now.

Last chance to give ideas for an RC-10 upgrade for an additional $300 or less!

Thanks for all your help... after searching countless hours trying to educate myself on all this stuff it is great to get real advice from real people who really know their equipment and sound!
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post #23 of 24 Old 03-10-2012, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by phreedom76 View Post


I have done next to no research on subs and am considering going for the Boston E-60s as an upgrade to the RC-10s and waiting for a deal on a sub to come along at a later time. Unless, the $500 refurbished one is a deal I should jump on now.

The Boston sub was just one option - I would look at the Epik or
Rythmik, or even HSU. You do not need to match sub brands, with
the speaker brands. People have been happy, with their performace.

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Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #24 of 24 Old 03-10-2012, 10:34 AM
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I am still hesitant about towers because of safety concerns with young kids and the large footprint. But, if they would be significantly better than the Boston setup mentioned above I might be swayed in that direction. We currently rent a single family home and no apartments will be in our future.

I think it would be tougher to knock over a 60lb tower vs a bookshelf speaker on a stand.

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