Speaker cables (What to do? What to buy?) - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 71 Old 10-12-2013, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ursus999 View Post

between what was voted the worst cable ( very thick copper) & the best very very thin copper there was a huge difference which even my old ears could hear
That goes to the marketing mantra that bigger is always better. It isn't, but the average consumer doesn't know that, and will pony up silly amounts of cash for something that looks like it will work better. As long as there are people willing to pay the price for snake oil there will be those lining up to sell it to them.

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post #62 of 71 Old 10-12-2013, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

That goes to the marketing mantra that bigger is always better. It isn't, but the average consumer doesn't know that, and will pony up silly amounts of cash for something that looks like it will work better. As long as there are people willing to pay the price for snake oil there will be those lining up to sell it to them.

Well, if a thicker cable is made just as well as the one that's thinner. then the thicker gauge would obviously be better. You still can't avoid the laws of physics.. Just, that's not the only factor, yet it's the simplest to understand, so obviously it's taken advantage of. Wouldn't be fair to say that for every case, or even most though...
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post #63 of 71 Old 10-12-2013, 12:20 PM
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I would have a question regarding loudspeaker cables in general.Maybe is difficult question but please help if you know something about it.I live in a place where lightning happens almost every month if not week.The question is - can lightning that strikes 50 or 100 meters far ,induce voltage in 4 meters long loudspeaker cable damaging very sensitive parts in SS amp., and if - would shield cable resolve the problem?
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post #64 of 71 Old 10-12-2013, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

The number one factor that determines cable performance is capacitance. There is virtually no correlation between capacitance and price. Some of the most expensive cables are also some of the worst with respect to capacitance.
There is no #1 factor that is universal. The weakest link is the most important.

What happens when the resistance gets too high? First, there is power lost in the wire and the speaker will not play as loud. More important, as the resistance in series with the speaker increases, it makes the amplifier look more like a current source. This means the speaker frequency response will tend to follow the rise and fall of its impedance curve. The greater the impedance variation, the more noticeable the response changes will be. If the speaker has constant impedance versus frequency, the only change will be reduced output.



The red (upper) curve is without any added series resistance. The green (middle) curve is with one ohm added in series with the speaker and the black (lower) curve is with 2 ohms in series. You can see there is an overall loss in output but it is not the same at all frequencies. For the green (middle) curve in the area of 125 and 2500Hz, where the impedance is high, there is only about 1/2dB of loss in output whereas at the area of lowest impedance, at 300 and 10 kHz, the loss is about 2dB. The larger 2 ohm resistance shows even greater changes.

The resistances used in this example are much larger than the recommended wire resistance of 0.2 ohms but they do show how impedance variations can influence response. Response changes this large can be easily heard in an A-B listening test.

- http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#resistancehigh
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post #65 of 71 Old 10-12-2013, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Typhoon859 View Post

Well, if a thicker cable is made just as well as the one that's thinner. then the thicker gauge would obviously be better. You still can't avoid the laws of physics.
It may be obvious to someone who doesn't have any knowledge of the laws of physics, which applies to the vast majority of consumers, and that's what keeps the cable crooks in business. Where gauge is concerned there is a minimum required to have inaudible insertion loss and adequate current capacity. Anything larger will not work the slightest bit better.
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can lightning that strikes 50 or 100 meters far ,induce voltage in 4 meters long loudspeaker cable damaging very sensitive parts in SS amp., and if - would shield cable resolve the problem
No, and no. A hit that severe would take out all of your gear anyway, even with surge suppression.

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post #66 of 71 Old 10-12-2013, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

It may be obvious to someone who doesn't have any knowledge of the laws of physics, which applies to the vast majority of consumers, and that's what keeps the cable crooks in business. Where gauge is concerned there is a minimum required to have inaudible insertion loss and adequate current capacity. Anything larger will not work the slightest bit better.

As always, not without some amount of condescension on your part.

Yes Bill, that's what I meant. Gauge also sometimes helps (depending on the design of the cable) with EMI or could actually make it worse. Point is, it makes a difference. You're always taking everything further than it has to or ever fully applies. If a company manufactures a thicker gauge and somebody buys it even though it's for a short distance, that may be because they didn't know any better, but it has nothing to do with the company purposely manufacturing those cables just for that reason. Yes, clearly there are companies that do that, and people are largely uninformed (not their fault), but that's not a case for everything where you feel it's always pertinent for making this assertion.
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post #67 of 71 Old 10-12-2013, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Typhoon859 View Post

Yes, clearly there are companies that do that, and people are largely uninformed (not their fault), but that's not a case for everything where you feel it's always pertinent for making this assertion.
if you want to know whether a company is preying on the ignorance of the general public with respect to what wire can and cannot do, it's pretty obvious in their advertising. If they say that their wire will make a system sound better, they are.

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post #68 of 71 Old 10-12-2013, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

if you want to know whether a company is preying on the ignorance of the general public with respect to what wire can and cannot do, it's pretty obvious in their advertising. If they say that their wire will make a system sound better, they are.

Oh, well yeah, of course. I mean every company does that with everything. Marketing BS, sure. I'm saying there are specific cases for cables with companies like Monster, but in general, it's no different than with anything else.
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post #69 of 71 Old 04-29-2014, 11:28 AM
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Try some Sewell wires and connectors..... they have 259 strand oxygen free copper wire in a 12 gauge thickness, with gold plated banana plug connectors. They are inexpensive, and of high quality. Their 3 foot center channel wire with connectors is about $8.00. These are made in the U.S.A. in Utah. Take a look at sewelldirect.com. The only knock that could possibly be told is that the plugs are held with two set screws... No problems here however. Good hunting!
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post #70 of 71 Old 04-29-2014, 12:53 PM
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I have my system wired with Sewell cables and like them ALOT. Very nice feel to them. Well constructed and great sound from what I can tell. And a great price compared to the really crazy prices I've seen. I think i have the 12ga terminated with the banana plugs. And they are very THICK. I like the double screw set in them.

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Sewell 12ga terminated wiring
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post #71 of 71 Old 04-29-2014, 01:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walbert View Post

Just truck on down to whatever your equivalent of Home Depot is, and get however many feet you need of 16-2 or 14-2 (18-2 if its a really short run). Bare wire to the amplifier and speakers is perfectly fine, and there's no need to spend a fortune on wire (you're just spending more to spend more).

Some background information if you want more "why" - http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm


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